Macross/Animation Cel Collection Thread

[Oden]

Nice Shot Mokman, do you have some captures of the few frames just before this one (during the transition/fade in)?  The bulb on the side appears to more closely match that frame, though it is obscured by the overlay of the preceding white explosion glare.

[elrdf]

 When I get on my computer later tonight I’ll verify if it  was used on the show or not 

[Mokman]

@Odenwith the amount of control I have with my player to slow advance I don't see any kind of fade in.  It jumps from a white screen to the frame I shared.

[Mokman]

I just received my package of 30-some douga I won off YJ a while ago.  Some nice surprises in the additional douga that were not shown on the auction.  One I can't identify off hand as being from Macross.  I'm in the process of scanning them all now and then I will composite the multi-layer items before posting (many have separate eyes and/or mouths).

[Mokman]

Well that took a bit of time, but it was worth it in the end.  I didn't do all the variations of the shot of Minmei with her arm up since there are about 10 douga for the entire cut (multiple eyes and mouths).  I didn't know I was getting any of the Minmei images from the auction description, nor the Khyron, Rick in his helmet, Sammy looking over her shoulder, or the unknown bald headed image.  So speaking of that one.  Can anyone identify it?  I am drawing a blank on where it might be from (Macross or otherwise).

 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Mokman

[Fortress_Maximus]

Some very nice dougas Mokman! Congratulations!

[Mokman]

Thanks.  Had a problem with the last five images because they were originally bmp instead of jpg so it was not creating a thumbnail.  Fixed the issue now.  All but the last five images are composites of multiple layers.

[Fortress_Maximus]

The bald image is most likely Minmay from the episode where Kaifun is holding her after she falls and she imagines Hikaru pulling her up instead.

[Mokman]

Which episode?  Broken Heart is the one where Minmei and Lynn Kyle are taken prisoner but there is no part in it where she falls.  And the clothes she is wearing does not match.  I though maybe from Phantasm when Rick is delirious but the shot is not in there either.

[Fortress_Maximus]

Episode 21: "Micro Cosmos".  Reference approximately 13:19.

[Mokman]

Ah, yes.  I had forgotten about that scene.  Thanks.

[jvmacross]

Great pickups!  Looks like your lot was more bountiful than the one with the Hikaru DYRL images.  Congrats!

[Oden]

Definitely a great catch.

[elrdf]

I'm still stuck on the idea of sealing art. I spoke with apparently the most professional animation art preservation dude around and he said it's a bad idea because if it deteriorates in the resin there is no turning back.. I think that the art can be preserved perfectly and last MANY more years in resin. Aside form discoloration being exposed to light it should be good. This company has a resin specifically made for sealing art and has UV protection as well. They suggested the art be sealed first to prevent any gases from being emitted from the background causing bubbles. I still strongly feel that it could be a good idea if done by a professional. There should be groups or resin experts that can do it. From what this animation  preservation guy told me is that everyday is like playing with fire not having the cels/backgrounds treated and deacidified for they were not made to last at all. The backgrounds are not acid free paper and the paint from the cels emit a gas that will destroy all of it. I wonder how long they can last... I like to keep my key cels framed but in areas that are dark in the room, not directly in front of sunlight/artificial light. Thoughts? Sorry for bringing this up again I just keep thinking about it.

https://www.artresin.com/blogs/artresin/should-i-seal-my-artwork-before-i-resin

 

"Thanks for contacting us

Yes!! You certainly can use ArtResin over your pieces! Now I would suggest using a pre-sealant on them prior to applying the resin. Many papers and sometimes inks can off-gas and create bubbles in the resin as it cures. By creating this barrier with your pre-sealant it will help to prevent this from happening. We do not favor any one sealant but I might suggest reaching out to your local craft store to see if they recommend one that will work well with your art.

Here is our most recent blog on sealing your art, it should also be of help: 
https://www.artresin.com/blogs/artresin/should-i-seal-my-artwork-before-i-resin

Our FAQ has a wealth of knowledge to help you get started: www.artresin.com/faq 

As always we suggest doing a trial run on a non masterpiece to be sure you will have to results you desire.
"

[Mokman]

As I understand it cels deteriorate by a process called hydrolysis, which is the effect of water molecules breaking down other molecules.  The question is if you can remove 100% of the water from a cel will this process halt?  Is it even possible to fully desiccate a cel, and without otherwise destroying it?  Will encasing it in resin faciliate this?  Unless the answer to all these questions is yes, encasing a cel in resin would be a wasted effort.  My guess is if this was an effective preservation technique it would already be well known and widely in use.

[elrdf]

 I agree and that definitely makes sense that’s what that professional guy told me that everyone would be doing it if it was a process that worked however I don’t think people would like to have their art pieces in resin even if it did work.  I guess I can ask the company if this process will illuminate hydrolysis.  It’s really a shame because you can preserve  Nice piece and it can maybe last for 10 or 20 years or so and then start deteriorating from within possibly but I wonder how much life these cels/ back rounds currently have being in their mid-30s ..  if they last another 50 years or so that would be pretty cool but who knows .. I guess really the best way to preserve them if they’re framed is to make sure that the celluloids   Have ample space between them and the background as well as being in a room that is not really hot or humid   And keeping it away from sunlight. 

[tekering]

9 hours ago, MacrossManiac said:

Nice piece and it can maybe last for 10 or 20 years or so and then start deteriorating from within possibly but I wonder how much life these cels/ back rounds currently have being in their mid-30s ..  if they last another 50 years or so that would be pretty cool but who knows ..

Cels more than 80 years old still fetch hundreds of thousands of dollars from auction sales...

If properly stored, cels will likely outlast their owners.  

[jvmacross]

12 hours ago, MacrossManiac said:

 I agree and that definitely makes sense that’s what that professional guy told me that everyone would be doing it if it was a process that worked however I don’t think people would like to have their art pieces in resin even if it did work.  I guess I can ask the company if this process will illuminate hydrolysis.  It’s really a shame because you can preserve  Nice piece and it can maybe last for 10 or 20 years or so and then start deteriorating from within possibly but I wonder how much life these cels/ back rounds currently have being in their mid-30s ..  if they last another 50 years or so that would be pretty cool but who knows .. I guess really the best way to preserve them if they’re framed is to make sure that the celluloids   Have ample space between them and the background as well as being in a room that is not really hot or humid   And keeping it away from sunlight. 

 

14 hours ago, elrdf said:

I'm still stuck on the idea of sealing art. I spoke with apparently the most professional animation art preservation dude around and he said it's a bad idea because if it deteriorates in the resin there is no turning back.. I think that the art can be preserved perfectly and last MANY more years in resin. Aside form discoloration being exposed to light it should be good. This company has a resin specifically made for sealing art and has UV protection as well. They suggested the art be sealed first to prevent any gases from being emitted from the background causing bubbles. I still strongly feel that it could be a good idea if done by a professional. There should be groups or resin experts that can do it. From what this animation  preservation guy told me is that everyday is like playing with fire not having the cels/backgrounds treated and deacidified for they were not made to last at all. The backgrounds are not acid free paper and the paint from the cels emit a gas that will destroy all of it. I wonder how long they can last... I like to keep my key cels framed but in areas that are dark in the room, not directly in front of sunlight/artificial light. Thoughts? Sorry for bringing this up again I just keep thinking about it.

https://www.artresin.com/blogs/artresin/should-i-seal-my-artwork-before-i-resin

 

"Thanks for contacting us

Yes!! You certainly can use ArtResin over your pieces! Now I would suggest using a pre-sealant on them prior to applying the resin. Many papers and sometimes inks can off-gas and create bubbles in the resin as it cures. By creating this barrier with your pre-sealant it will help to prevent this from happening. We do not favor any one sealant but I might suggest reaching out to your local craft store to see if they recommend one that will work well with your art.

Here is our most recent blog on sealing your art, it should also be of help: 
https://www.artresin.com/blogs/artresin/should-i-seal-my-artwork-before-i-resin

Our FAQ has a wealth of knowledge to help you get started: www.artresin.com/faq 

As always we suggest doing a trial run on a non masterpiece to be sure you will have to results you desire.
"

No way I would encase any non-massed produced piece of artwork in anything other than a decent frame...let alone a cel.....this is the most half-baked idea I have heard yet for trying to preserve cels

[jvmacross]

3 hours ago, tekering said:

If properly stored, cels will likely outlast their owners.  

Exactly....besides, unless your kids want them, you'd be selling them all off before your time is up!

Or Plan B....

[Mokman]

I personally wouldn't buy a cel encased in resin either.  At that point it would be so altered from its original condition that I wouldn't consider it a cel anymore.  It'd be more of a decorative paperweight.  All collector value would be destroyed, even if it was preserved till doomsday.

[elrdf]

Thanks for the advice guys, what about sending it to this pro that does the preservation? He said the inspection is free but most times all pieces need to be treated and acid removed from the paper with some type of calcium treatment.

[jvmacross]

3 minutes ago, elrdf said:

Thanks for the advice guys, what about sending it to this pro that does the preservation? He said the inspection is free but most times all pieces need to be treated and acid removed from the paper with some type of calcium treatment.

Who is this "pro".....this is your chance to share with the cel collecting community....instead of just taking from it.

Maybe we can take a look and see if this guy is legit. What say you? 

[elrdf]

https://www.srlabs.com/

 

Ron Stark, he's been doing it for over 40 years VERY informative. I learned a lot from him. 

[Mokman]

If you want to have your douga, genga, and backgrounds preserved, and you are willing to pay the cost, I say go for it.  Paper document preservation is a well known and legitimate process used by libraries, museums, etc.  I know probably the number collector in the world of original Dungeons & Dragons RPG items and he conserves all his high end purchases.

[elrdf]

wow, yea I guess it's worth it if it's 1-200 dollars which I think that's his price range for some really key pieces. I want to have some cels separated from backgrounds that are stuck. He said to send them in to check them out to see what can be done.

[jvmacross]

14 hours ago, MacrossManiac said:

 I agree and that definitely makes sense that’s what that professional guy told me that everyone would be doing it if it was a process that worked however I don’t think people would like to have their art pieces in resin even if it did work.  I guess I can ask the company if this process will illuminate hydrolysis.  It’s really a shame because you can preserve  Nice piece and it can maybe last for 10 or 20 years or so and then start deteriorating from within possibly but I wonder how much life these cels/ back rounds currently have being in their mid-30s ..  if they last another 50 years or so that would be pretty cool but who knows .. I guess really the best way to preserve them if they’re framed is to make sure that the celluloids   Have ample space between them and the background as well as being in a room that is not really hot or humid   And keeping it away from sunlight. 

MacrossManiac......just wondering what "professional guy" has been giving you info on cel preservation?  Need to make sure we are getting the right sort of information for keeping our expensive collections safe.

[elrdf]

It's the same guy. Many animation framing companies recommend that lab. Give him a call and ask, he knows a lot about the anime cels from the 80's and how they were made. You can send a piece from your collection to him to evaluate. The man gives lectures around the world teaching on art preservation and restoration. 

 

[jvmacross]

49 minutes ago, elrdf said:

It's the same guy.

 

How would you know it's the same guy?

I'd rather hear it from @MacrossManiac.

It's not like you and MacrossManiac are the same person, right?  

 

 

[Shawn]

We interrupt this awesome Cel Collection thread to remind people to relax a little, take a breather, and remember we are all fans here supporting the same awesome franchise.

Please have fun here. Remember you when frustrated you can always just close the forums and take a break. The people who disagree with you will always be here when you get back with newer and better comebacks 

Just kidding, but seriously please keep it down to a gentle holler in here. Thank you!

 

[JetJockey]

What happened? Anyone want to give a quick run down or private message me what happened? I see MacrossManiac's posts are gone. And they seem to be completely gone as a member here.

I could tell things were about to blow up eventually with talk of flippers and misinformation being passed around.

[JetJockey]

On 6/20/2019 at 11:23 PM, elrdf said:

 Thanks for the information hey I just had this crazy idea !! What if you could seal the  Cel and background in resin!!!?!?!  It would be preserved like forever you can have a matte finish to the resin or a glass you will never have to worry about it deteriorating ever !!

 Or like you see animal specimens or flowers that are in solid resin cubes they would last forever !! Any thoughts on that? 

This by the way is crazy. The first thing you learn about framing or preserving any kind of important art is you never glue or put anything that could be permanent or difficult to remove on the artwork. It immediately lowers the value. That is why if you go to a framer and they mention dry mount you should turn around and walk straight out. I think I read a story about someone dry mounting a cel once.

[Mokman]

No idea what happened.  Maybe something was said and the post(s) deleted by the admins?  Either way MacrossManiac has seemed to have left the site.

[jvmacross]

12 minutes ago, Mokman said:

No idea what happened.  Maybe something was said and the post(s) deleted by the admins?  Either way MacrossManiac has seemed to have left the site.

 

2 hours ago, JetJockey said:

What happened? Anyone want to give a quick run down or private message me what happened? I see MacrossManiac's posts are gone. And they seem to be completely gone as a member here.

I could tell things were about to blow up eventually with talk of flippers and misinformation being passed around.

 

On 7/7/2019 at 9:30 PM, elrdf said:

I'm still stuck on the idea of sealing art. I spoke with apparently the most professional animation art preservation dude around and he said it's a bad idea because if it deteriorates in the resin there is no turning back..

 

On 7/7/2019 at 10:04 PM, Mokman said:

As I understand it cels deteriorate by a process called hydrolysis........

 

On 7/7/2019 at 10:48 PM, MacrossManiac said:

 I agree and that definitely makes sense that’s what that professional guy told me

 

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/topic/23944-mw-forum-rules-guidelines/

• Multiple Accounts.
  Users may only have one account on Macross World. Registering more than one account for the purpose of posting while posing as someone other than yourself (original account) is prohibited.

 

I think you guys can figure out what happened....

Hopefully, we will get a full explanation for this bizarre behavior from the individual who got caught breaking the MWF rules.

 

[Shawn]

I don't want to get all doom and gloom here and derail this super thread, but in short events happened and were handled with as delicate a hand as I have for this type of thing, I trust I won't regret it.

I'll have to post my cel here..I only have 2 or 3 but this is my favorite.

Its that DYRL painting mistake (not ever seen in the movie) on YJ a few months ago. I think it is awesome, I like the weird stuff! In person it is amazing looking.

 

[Shawn]

And the rest of my uhmmm..."collection"....LOL

Nothing compared to what I've seen posted here!!!!

This type of collecting is way to expensive, I'll stick to my cheap-o model kits.