Duke Togo Posted September 30, 2003 Posted September 30, 2003 I still disagree. I can tell you right now I don't know anyone who's even played Super Mario RPG. Final Fantasy VII turned the industry on its head. Quote
Skull Leader Posted October 1, 2003 Posted October 1, 2003 people give the Mario RPG a damned sight less recognition than it deserves. It was a total genre bender and was quite possibly the best SNES game out there (I never got to finish it, but I enjoyed it far more than I enjoyed FFVII) Maybe FFVII WAS a flagship title for the PSX, but it doesn't matter. Beyond a few points (the music was good, and the materia system was so-so) the game was lackluster at best. I'm serious, take those two things away and what's left? Not much worth playing, really. Quote
Isamu Atreides 86 Posted October 1, 2003 Posted October 1, 2003 people give the Mario RPG a damned sight less recognition than it deserves. It was a total genre bender and was quite possibly the best SNES game out there (I never got to finish it, but I enjoyed it far more than I enjoyed FFVII) That was a great game. there was a sequel to it on the N64. did anyone play it? i heard it was okay, but that it didn't live up to the original. that and Chrono Trigger are still some of the best RPG's i've ever played. Quote
Effect Posted October 1, 2003 Posted October 1, 2003 I really enjoyed Mario RPG, though I don't think I beat it for some reason. Never played its seque though. Didn't even know one was made. Quote
UN Spacy Posted October 1, 2003 Posted October 1, 2003 There's a short video (12.3 MB) posted here. Looks interesting....I'm keeping my fingers crossed. B) Right click, save as.... http://scorpius.spaceports.com/~dreamdc/fi...3_full2mins.avi Quote
Duke Togo Posted October 1, 2003 Posted October 1, 2003 Maybe FFVII WAS a flagship title for the PSX, but it doesn't matter. Beyond a few points (the music was good, and the materia system was so-so) the game was lackluster at best. I'm serious, take those two things away and what's left? Not much worth playing, really. I guess we all got suckered then, huh? Quote
Skull Leader Posted October 1, 2003 Posted October 1, 2003 well, that's certainly how *I* felt after playing it.... I was pretty let down. Quote
Duke Togo Posted October 1, 2003 Posted October 1, 2003 Too bad for you... it doesnt' change the fact that it had more impact on the gaming industry than any other game in the past decade. It brought RPG's into the mainstream outside of Japan, and MADE the Playsation THE gaming console. To deny these facts is just plain dumb. Final Fantasy VII sold millions, and God knows how many people bought the Playstation because of it. Quote
Jemstone Posted October 1, 2003 Posted October 1, 2003 Too bad for you... it doesnt' change the fact that it had more impact on the gaming industry than any other game in the past decade. It brought RPG's into the mainstream outside of Japan, and MADE the Playsation THE gaming console. To deny these facts is just plain dumb. Final Fantasy VII sold millions, and God knows how many people bought the Playstation because of it. You either really love FF7 or you just like repeating it's accomplishments. BTW I thought the game was decent but I did hate it because of what it did. It opened the doors for the species known as the casual gamer to be born. The game never effected me because I have always imported games and still do. I also did look for the stats for Mario RPG because I remember reading somewhere that while there were many who ahdn't playe dit, many people still knew of it. ANyways, too many links to wade thru on Google so I didn't bother. Quote
Duke Togo Posted October 1, 2003 Posted October 1, 2003 I was correct in addressing you as an elitist then. Thank you for proving my point. Quote
Jemstone Posted October 1, 2003 Posted October 1, 2003 (edited) I was correct in addressing you as an elitist then. Thank you for proving my point. You're welcome. Execpt I don't remember you directly addressing me as an elitist. I just know after the PSX became a hit due to the game there seemed to be an inlfux of "simple minded" children who all suddenly became video games experts. Of course I don't think I need to explain the Sony fanboys it created among otehr things. EDIT: I do mean rhe fanboys who for whatever reason believe no gaming platform existed before the PSX or simply none are worth emntioning. If that makes me an elitist to you when I wear the notion proudly. A person can't have a decent "old skool" conversation on gaming boards today without soem childish kid comng ina nd saying "PS2 r0xerZ!" or some silly thing like that. Vrey much how when CN first aired Gundam Wing for the firts time. Suddenly a bunch of kid became experts on Gundam and they had never even seen 0079. Edited October 1, 2003 by Jemstone Quote
Duke Togo Posted October 1, 2003 Posted October 1, 2003 ...she was looking kind of dumb with her finger and her thumb in the shape of an "L" on her forehead Quote
bob joe mac Posted October 1, 2003 Posted October 1, 2003 I agree with Duke Togo, While CT, FF6 BF2 and Mario RPG were very successful they were NOT nearly as succesfful as FF7. Even if FF7 wasn't the best game ever (I think FF4 is) it still sold VERY well. It and Dragon Quest 7 MADE the PS1 no denying it. Even if you don't like the game it STILL sold well. I know TONS of people who HATE DQ7 but does that make not a succesful game? No not at all it did better then FF7. - 100 posts Quote
Jemstone Posted October 1, 2003 Posted October 1, 2003 ...she was looking kind of dumb with her finger and her thumb in the shape of an "L" on her forehead I just added a part for you. Funny I didn't edit it in time because I knew you would post something like this which illustrated my point. Quote
Duke Togo Posted October 1, 2003 Posted October 1, 2003 Um, no. Final Fantasy VII outsold Dragon Quest VII 2:1. Its not even close. You can't even compare them in popularity, or what they meant to the gaming industry. Final Fantasy VII sold over 9.2 million copies worldwide, people. That's TWICE what most big games do. Quote
bob joe mac Posted October 1, 2003 Posted October 1, 2003 Um, no. Final Fantasy VII outsold Dragon Quest VII 2:1. Its not even close. You can't even compare them in popularity, or what they meant to the gaming industry.Final Fantasy VII sold over 9.2 million copies worldwide, people. That's TWICE what most big games do. They why does it say on the back of the case best selling PS1 gmae of all time? or something like that. Quote
Duke Togo Posted October 1, 2003 Posted October 1, 2003 Don't ask me, I can't tell ya. Might I also mention that it came out 3 years after Final Fantasy VII, which completely destroys any comparison, anyways. Quote
Duke Togo Posted October 1, 2003 Posted October 1, 2003 (edited) Please clarify "something like that". From what I understand, Dragon Warrior VII sold only a few hundred thousand copies outside of Japan, and the 4.1 million it sold in Japan is still far short of Final Fantasy VII's mark. Edited October 1, 2003 by Duke Togo Quote
bob joe mac Posted October 1, 2003 Posted October 1, 2003 (edited) Ok well I don't have the copy of the game with me but I think it was best selling PS1 game ever in japan. But twice as much?!?!??! I dont think so as of march 21, 2003 FF7- 7.8 million DQ7- 6 million http://www.ownt.com/qtakes/2003/gamestats/.../gamestats.shtm Edited October 1, 2003 by bob joe mac Quote
Duke Togo Posted October 1, 2003 Posted October 1, 2003 You're numbers are wrong. Here are the statistics given by Square and Enix last November at the time of their merger: Final Fantasy VII 9.20 million Dragon Quest VII 4.11 million The full chart can be found here: http://www.the-magicbox.com/game112902.htm US sales of Dragon Warrior VII are not given, and from what I've read theynumber around an expected 300,000. Quote
Toby Danger Posted October 1, 2003 Posted October 1, 2003 To address the question asked by others before: yes, there was a sequel to Mario RPG. It was called Paper Mario for N64 I believe. IMO it sucked the big one. I rented it and played it for about an hour before I got bored to tears. And I played RPGs for years before FFVII, but IMO, it (and Chrono Trigger) are still the most fondly remembered. I agree in saying that FF7, for better or worse whatever your opinion is, was the door opener here to RPGs. Quote
Lucifer Posted October 2, 2003 Posted October 2, 2003 About Final Fantasy VII part 2, well, here's a little spoiler from the end of Final Fantasy VII:EVERYONE FREAKIN' DIED! THEY'RE NOT COMING BACK! THEY WERE ABSORBED INTO THE FREAKING LIFE STREAM! GONE! TRANSCENDED, IF YOU WILL! NO LONGER WALKING THE FACE OF THE PLANET! THIS WAS EXPLAINED FULLY IN THE DIALOGUE THROUGHOUT THE GAME! WHY DOES NO ONE REALIZE THIS!? THAT WACKY FLOATING GUY EXPLAINS EXACTLY WHAT HOYL WILL DO, THAT BEING THE ELIMINATION OF ALL HUMAN LIFE, WHICH IS WHY IT SPED UP METEOR INSTEAD OF DEFLECTING IT! AERITH WISHED FOR A HAPPY ENDING, SO EVERYONE WAS TAKEN TO THE PROMISED LAND BY THE LIFE STREAM INSTEAD, EXCEPT FOR ANYONE WHO DOESN'T GET IT YET THE PROMISED LAND IS NOT A PHYSICAL PLACE! IT WAS A HAPPY WAY OF SAYING THEY GOT INTO HEAVEN AND WHERE ALL HAPPY, BUT STILL FREAKIN' GONE! THERE WERE NO HUMANS LEFT ON THE PLANET AFTERWARDS! EVERYTHING WAS GIVEN UP TO NATURE! ANYTHING SQUARE RELEASES TO CHANGE THAT IS A RETCON TO CASH IN ON THE FACT THAT ALMOST NO ON SEEMS TO UNDERSTAND THE ENDING, AND SAKAGUCHI IS RETIRED SO THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WITH HIS STORIES. Got it? *Snif* that was... beautiful man... BTW.. you ppl should all check out www.phuck-ign.com there's a link on the trailer.. in case this hasn't been posted (i'm lazy reading) Quote
Skull Leader Posted October 2, 2003 Posted October 2, 2003 (edited) Too bad for you... it doesnt' change the fact that it had more impact on the gaming industry than any other game in the past decade. It brought RPG's into the mainstream outside of Japan, and MADE the Playsation THE gaming console. To deny these facts is just plain dumb. Final Fantasy VII sold millions, and God knows how many people bought the Playstation because of it. Chief, I hope you didn't waste too much time looking up those sales numbers, because I'm about to shoot that down. What we have here is a classic case of card-stacking. Just because that many people BOUGHT the game doesn't mean they liked it..... how many people have bought a game in anticipation that it would be good and it turned out it wasnt? (I can name several titles like that.... FFVII, VIII, and just to be generous, I'll name games outside the series... Unlimited Saga, Auto Modelista, The Matrix reloaded, Macross VF-X1, R-tech: Battlecry, and well... the list goes on) Do you think any company with even a FEW brains would show anything less than their total sales? Yeah, lots of people bought the game, and I'm sure there were more than enough who bought the game because it was an FF title and assumed that it would be as-good, if not better than it's predecessors. Those numbers represent the number of copies sold PERIOD.... Duke, YOUR purchase is included in that number, but guess what... so is MINE. While the numbers are certainly strong, I would hesitate to use those as a sole basis for an argument. No one ever wins an argument with numbers alone. Look, I can see the direction this is heading in (exactly where we started from)....and I think it appropriate at this point to say that I would never gainsay someone their like for FFVII. I just think the game is a stinking pile of monkey-poop. Anyone who can walk out and say "It's the greatest game in the series" really can't make an accurate statement. HOWEVER, if you tack the words "in my opinion" or "I think" to said statement, all of a sudden, it can become a true thing. I'm not trying to sway you (Duke) to my side of thinking, I'm simply saying that you're but ONE voice in that 9+ million. I am another. I've got onto Keith for the same thing before, just because you say it's so, or think you have conclusive evidence does not make it so. Maybe conclusive enough for you. Edited October 2, 2003 by Skull Leader Quote
Skull Leader Posted October 2, 2003 Posted October 2, 2003 Why is it so friggin hard for you to accept??? Your statement as FFVII as "the best in the series" is a blanket statement and invalid. If you'd just say "FOR ME it was the best in the series" and we could drop this whole thing. Quote
Duke Togo Posted October 2, 2003 Posted October 2, 2003 LOL, what a maroon. I NEVER said Final Fantasy VII was the best in the series, or anything even remotely close to that. Why don't you pull your head out of your backside and try READING what I am saying before you react to it. Quote
Skull Leader Posted October 2, 2003 Posted October 2, 2003 ahem, it's MORON and while you may not have specifically stated it, you're certainly implying it. I think we've gone far enough astray to kill this topic. Quote
Jemstone Posted October 2, 2003 Posted October 2, 2003 LOL, what a maroon. I NEVER said Final Fantasy VII was the best in the series, or anything even remotely close to that. Why don't you pull your head out of your backside and try READING what I am saying before you react to it. You mean kinda how I never came on here to bash FF7 but you assumed I did just because I admitted to hating some of the side effects of it's accomplishment? Quote
Duke Togo Posted October 2, 2003 Posted October 2, 2003 (edited) I accused you of being an elitist, Jem, I know you said you didn't hate it. And Skull, the only thing I'm implying is that I think you comprehension skills are severely lacking. Why put quotes around something if your intention was not to quote me? You want the thread closed because I just made a fool out of you. Whether you like the game or not, you cannot deny the impact Final Fantasy VII has had on the gaming industry. It put the Playstation at the top of the console list and it bought the RPG genre into the mainstream, opening up North American and the world to countless RPG titles that would never have seen the light of day outside of Japan otherwise. Oh, and Skull, I know what I typed and I know what I meant. "Maroon" Edited October 2, 2003 by Duke Togo Quote
Jemstone Posted October 2, 2003 Posted October 2, 2003 I accused you of being an elitist, Jem, I know you said you didn't hate it. Duke, ya know I'm just messing with ya, right? But ya gotta stop repeating yourself on FF7. You cans ay it over a thousand times and it's not gonna change what some people think. Quote
Duke Togo Posted October 2, 2003 Posted October 2, 2003 They can think what they want, its still a fact. Quote
Ladic Posted October 2, 2003 Posted October 2, 2003 My fav RPG's are: Dragon Warrior(NES) Ultima(NES) Chronno Trigger(SNES) Warsong(Genesis) Quote
Skull Leader Posted October 3, 2003 Posted October 3, 2003 (edited) Ah of course, what was I thinking? Duke, who obviously cannot be wrong, MUST have the right of it... of course it's FACT, the Duke says so, what else do ya need? Like I said... show me some proof besides some overall sales numbers... we have a couple of thousand members here... give me TEN solid testimonies of people on this board who bought it THEN had their video-gaming lives changed by FFVII (as in, they never looked at RPGs the same way again, such as we're debating here) and I'll admit that perhaps I was wrong and that maybe I should give the game a second chance. I'll admit you're right and swallow my pride... IF this can be done... otherwise how would you prove it to me? And I'm sorry, why do you have this need to call me the color "maroon"? Edited October 3, 2003 by Skull Leader Quote
Radd Posted October 3, 2003 Posted October 3, 2003 Based on what I've read, I gotta agree with Duke. He's provided facts and numbers, with sources to back them up. Perhaps, Skull Leader, you misunderstand what Duke Togo's been saying. He's simply stating the effect that Final Fantasy VII had on the marketplace and the gaming industry. This has nothing to do with how good a game it was. Heck, DoA3 was listed as the top fighting game out by some gaming magazine's reader polls, despite the fact that the game was mediocre at best. Enough people thought it was good enough to warrant being the top fighting game at the time, while I thought it was crap and much preferred Project Justice. My opinion didn't change the fact that it led the polls. The fact is that Final Fantasy VII sold record breaking numbers around the world and got more people in the U.S. talking about RPGs than any RPG before it had. Heck, FF7 had MTV spots running for months. It was everywhere. Sure, lots of people returned their copies soon after, having bought it without knowing what an RPG was (I've read reader complaints in magazines about how much FFVII sucked because of all the talking and plot and exploration, with not enough action), but many more kept theirs, and got into more RPGs afterwards. During that time, the gaming industry as a whole was brought further into the US mainstream, and since FFVII RPGs have a bigger share of the pie than they did when gamers were a niche subculture, and RPGs were a niche of that. Quote
yellowlightman Posted October 3, 2003 Posted October 3, 2003 Um, no. Final Fantasy VII outsold Dragon Quest VII 2:1. Its not even close. You can't even compare them in popularity, or what they meant to the gaming industry.Final Fantasy VII sold over 9.2 million copies worldwide, people. That's TWICE what most big games do. The Final Fantasy series while more popular here, is over shadowed by the Dragon Quest series in Japan. As for what it did to the games industry, it certainly wasn't very innovative. Aside from being 3D Final Fantasy 7 wasn't all that different from any previous RPG. The RPG genre lacks innovation. Unless you count the introduction of tons of cinemas to watch, resulting in almost every game nowadays being filled to the brim with cutscenes. Bravo, for that. In 1997 Final Fantasy 7 sold 3,277,290 copies in Japan. In 2000 Dragon Quest 7 sold 3,784,682 copies in Japan. Not only does Final Fantasy 7 have a three year start on DQ7, it also had a lot more money behind it for it's overseas release than DQ7. Source Quote
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