Final Fantasy 7-2 ?!

[JB0]

Who are you to say what was a "true" FF?

The ones with #s.

[Isamu Atreides 86]

FF VIII rules. Best FF Ever. i still want Square to continue with Squall and Rinoa's Story.

B)

[Abombz!!]

damn you back button!!

Edited September 28, 2003 by Abombz!!

[Abombz!!]

Nooooo, FF7 did that.

The only overly long summons in FF7 were Bahamut Neo, Zero and Knights of the Round. And even then none of them could be compared to the length of summons such as Alexander, Eden and Bahamut from FF8.

Not a true FF.

If you count Tactics, you have to count Chocobo Racing too. And good luck there.

Had FF on its name.... still FF. Chocobo was a spin off and it did not have FF on its name.

You also forget Chocobo Mystery dungeaon.

Better than the previous 2 outings.

Can't argue with that.

Ghaleon would SO kick Kefka's ass.

Err... no. Ghaleon was lame simply because he got his ass kick by a angst ridden toddler named Alex... and then turning soft when Zophar was ready to destroy the blue star (or was it silver star?)

And both FF3 and 5 had, in essence, selectable parties. you just changed character class.

FF6 had you swapping characters to change class.

Changing jobs isn't exacly changing party members. I mean.... literally. You only had 4 members all the time in 5, while in 6 you had like 8 to 10. Which in my opinion decreased the level of character development.

And the equip screen returned! YAY!

Seriously!! Being able to equip nothing but a weapon and bangle was rather.... odd. And don't get me started on FF8 lack of equipment.

Limit breaks were a variation of FF6's desperation attacks, where a severely injured(stooped over) character would occasionally bust out a hyper-move when they attacked.

Yeah... but other then being simply normal attacks that simply drove the numbers sky high... desperation attacks were nothing like limit breakers.

Since character class is only selectable at game start, it damn well BETTER NOT focus on the job system, because that would mean the entire focus of the game was party creation.

When I said focus... I did mean as in "Hey! Its the job system again!!". You get to chose the job, each job has its limitations. Combining the right character classes were much of a strategy then anything else.

A far mroe signifigant change was the addition of retargeting from dead monsters. This "feature" served to strip some 95% of the strategy from battles, and is a large part of why I prefer the first 2 games over ALL successive games as far as gameplay goes.

Thats debatable. Each person would have their own opinion on what would be more significant, as the retargeting would have been a natural evolution for anyone with half a brain (and yet Camelot seems to be unable to implement that on Golden Sun <_< ).

The fact that it features classes that would never ever again be featured in any other game, is what really struck me as unique in FFIII.

And FF7 had a hell of a lot more story than any of the previous games.

Thats also debatable.... as half of it were really unneccessary and simply helped the gamer not to throw his controller at the TV out of boredom.

Beg pard? Most people I know hate the game because the story is steaming crap.

I know it's why I quit playing. I couldn't stand to read one more line of badly-written, hopelssly-cliche'd text

.

Most ppl I know only played it for the story as the game system bordered unplayable.

I liked it... it was far better, plot wise, then 7 and 10.

I bow out, not having a PS2 and having no interest in FFX.

Can't really say you are missing much.... bad plot and the worst couple in video game history do not make a good game.

Reason only FF and DQ mastered it: most RPGs refuse to touch it on the basis of it's a hideous bastardization of the concept of character class.

It sure as heck beats getting the predefined magic user, that has killer magic but if so much as a feather touches him/her they die. The predefined brawler/defender, good at taking hits but never good at helping out in a boss battle. The predefined hero, good at everything. The predefined hybrid, jack of all trades master of none , never seem to be able to do anything right. The predefined thief, gets hit once and died, plus the annoying luck factor when stealing.

Edited September 28, 2003 by Abombz!!

[Abombz!!]

If a game has a plot, and this plot is forced to your attention at every opportunity, a bad plot becomes a valid criticism.

FF7 refused to let you ignore the story. Therefore, a criticism of it is relevant.

I didn't say criticism was irrelevant... I simply said to give the game a break.

That rule is rough at best. It doesn't really hold up to any serious examination.

And there is a diffrence between minimal writing and bad writing.

Its not as rough as you thinkg. In FF, what was better, the fact that you could customize your party right off the bat, or the cliche, tried and true plot? I vote for the job system.

In FF2, what was better? The clunky over complicated system or the story and unique characters? I vote for the story and unique characters. I will give this one a break because dispite overly complicated system... it was inovative.

In FF3, what was better? The improvements and the insane amount of job classes you could pick, or the tried and true story line? I vote for jobs.

In FF4, what was better? The great story and great characters or the run of the mill learn as you go system? I vote for story and characters.

In FF5, what was better? The improved job system, or the tried and true story line with dumb characters? I vote for jobs, and the ability to beat the game on level 9.

In FF6, what was less painful? The story or the unrefined magicite system? (both were equaly bad) I vote not to play this game again.

In FF7, what was better? The cliched story, or the suberb materia system? Materia system

In FF8, what was less painful? The story and characters, or the completly unrefined and idiotic junction system? I vote to forget this game ever existed.

In FF9, what was better? The slightly ripped off story and characters, or the equipment/skill system? Tough call.

In FFX, what was less painful? The bad plot, bad characters and bad everything or the bad grid system? Lets forget this game existed.

I would say... its pretty clear cut. Its my opinion.... but then again, this is all about personal opinion, isn't it?

[JB0]

Not a true FF.

If you count Tactics, you have to count Chocobo Racing too. And good luck there.

Had FF on its name.... still FF. Chocobo was a spin off and it did not have FF on its name.

You also forget Chocobo Mystery dungeaon.

Well, I wasn't going to go to Chocobo's Dungeon, since I knew Chocobo Racing had FF characters, which I wasn't very sure about for Dungeon.

Ghaleon would SO kick Kefka's ass.

Err... no. Ghaleon was lame simply because he got his ass kick by a angst ridden toddler named Alex... and then turning soft when Zophar was ready to destroy the blue star (or was it silver star?)

Gah.

Damn remake.

Alex kicked ass. I know because he was mute, so the player got to fill his dialouge in. He was bad-ass.

And the original Silver Star is still the official version, because Silver Star Story doesn't fit continuity, even after EB Remix was released.

Zophar was going to destroy the world of Lunar. Which, hypothetically, was known as the Silver Star in olden times.

That was Ghaleon's hometown. He wanted to RULE it, not destroy it.

And he didn't even have much motivation for THAT after finding out that Dyne wasn't dead. His motivation was revenge for his friend's death. He kept going afterwards because he was comitted to that course of action already(ironically, his seeking revenge on the world for Dyne's death is what CAUSES Dyne's death. All very tragic).

And both FF3 and 5 had, in essence, selectable parties. you just changed character class.

FF6 had you swapping characters to change class.

Changing jobs isn't exacly changing party members. I mean.... literally. You only had 4 members all the time in 5, while in 6 you had like 8 to 10. Which in my opinion decreased the level of character development.

I thought we were talking from a strategic viewpoint. Sorry.

Limit breaks were a variation of FF6's desperation attacks, where a severely injured(stooped over) character would occasionally bust out a hyper-move when they attacked.

Yeah... but other then being simply normal attacks that simply drove the numbers sky high... desperation attacks were nothing like limit breakers.

Square themselves SAYS they are.

Check the back of FFAnthology some time. I believe the package says "See the origins of the Active Time Battle and Limit Break!!!"

...

But check it in a store. Don't buy it.

Since character class is only selectable at game start, it damn well BETTER NOT focus on the job system, because that would mean the entire focus of the game was party creation.

When I said focus... I did mean as in "Hey! Its the job system again!!". You get to chose the job, each job has its limitations. Combining the right character classes were much of a strategy then anything else.

Ah.

I'd say the focus was more battle strategy.

Any party can beat the game(even 4 white mages), it's just a matter of what style.

A far mroe signifigant change was the addition of retargeting from dead monsters. This "feature" served to strip some 95% of the strategy from battles, and is a large part of why I prefer the first 2 games over ALL successive games as far as gameplay goes.

Thats debatable. Each person would have their own opinion on what would be more significant, as the retargeting would have been a natural evolution for anyone with half a brain (and yet Camelot seems to be unable to implement that on Golden Sun <_< ).

I still maintain retargeting does nothing but strip strategy from the battles.

It's not an evolution to occur in pen and paper RPGs, because it MAKES NO SENSE.

Once you issue the command, you're commited.

From that point, your character starts moving. If the moster dies, too bad. The warrior's already headed that way. He can't stop, reassess the situation, and redirect immediatly. Even if he could, he's still lost time from comitting to the old attack.

The fact that it features classes that would never ever again be featured in any other game, is what really struck me as unique in FFIII.

I saw it as a minor triviality, personally.

And FF7 had a hell of a lot more story than any of the previous games.

Thats also debatable.... as half of it were really unneccessary and simply helped the gamer not to throw his controller at the TV out of boredom.

Or draw the game out needlessly so they could have a 60-hour game instead of a 30-hour game?

I absolutely loath pointless redirections.

Beg pard? Most people I know hate the game because the story is steaming crap.

I know it's why I quit playing. I couldn't stand to read one more line of badly-written, hopelssly-cliche'd text

.

Most ppl I know only played it for the story as the game system bordered unplayable.

I liked it... it was far better, plot wise, then 7 and 10.

I won't argue the point, as I haven't played 10 and 7 wasn't exactly well-written.

But seriously, the gameplay was like every other FF since 3. Enter battle. Tap attack. Keep tapping attack. Win battle.

Bad gameplay in an RPG is nothing new. I've slogged through rubber-band mush-quests before for the story.

But like I said, most of the people I've spoken with found FF8's writing to be the killing blow.

Case in point:

" Oh wow! We all grew up together, What are the odds of this big a conicidence happening?"

" Why didn't we remember? Oh yeah, because summon monsters eat memories!"

" So why are we still using them?"

" Because we're too stupid to even drink a bottle of water without one!"

" Oh yeah!"

...

Okay, the last2 lines drifted into gameplay.

Reason only FF and DQ mastered it: most RPGs refuse to touch it on the basis of it's a hideous bastardization of the concept of character class.

It sure as heck beats getting the predefined magic user, that has killer magic but if so much as a feather touches him/her they die. The predefined brawler/defender, good at taking hits but never good at helping out in a boss battle. The predefined hero, good at everything. The predefined hybrid, jack of all trades master of none , never seem to be able to do anything right. The predefined thief, gets hit once and died, plus the annoying luck factor when stealing..

So all other RPGs suck?

My point is it takes years of training to become proficient in a given skill. You don't just change hats and go "Okay, I know I've never held a blade before, but I'm a swordsman now." It's idiotic.

...

Which isn't to say it's not fun, but it doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Edited September 28, 2003 by JB0

[Lightning]

umm.....i thought VII was good for the materia system, and i think that if they implemented it in VIII then VIII would've been a lot better without the Draw/store system.

[JB0]

If a game has a plot, and this plot is forced to your attention at every opportunity, a bad plot becomes a valid criticism.

FF7 refused to let you ignore the story. Therefore, a criticism of it is relevant.

I didn't say criticism was irrelevant... I simply said to give the game a break.

But I dun wanna.

Besides, if people can hail it for being the best story ever, I can bash it for NOT being so.

That rule is rough at best. It doesn't really hold up to any serious examination.

And there is a diffrence between minimal writing and bad writing.

Its not as rough as you thinkg. In FF, what was better, the fact that you could customize your party right off the bat, or the cliche, tried and true plot? I vote for the job system.

I vote for the OTHER stuff.

FF1 was a dungeon crawler. The main point of the game was beating crap up.

In FF2, what was better? The clunky over complicated system or the story and unique characters? I vote for the story and unique characters. I will give this one a break because dispite overly complicated system... it was inovative.

As one of the bigger fans of said system...

The stat system was best. I've never understood why people don't like it.

And regardless which was better, the game focus WAS pretty heavy on the gameplay.

I'd argue FF2 was 50/50. Neither part really had an edge over the other. It's not allowed under the odd/even rule, though.

In FF3, what was better? The improvements and the insane amount of job classes you could pick, or the tried and true story line? I vote for jobs.

How about driving an airship 10 minutes into the game?

Point conceded.

In FF4, what was better? The great story and great characters or the run of the mill learn as you go system? I vote for story and characters.

I think Square voted "WHOO! REAL TIME BATTLES!"

They also introduced a strategy element since you often had a sub-optimal party.

You get used to having a white mage, and she gets yanked.

Enjoying your monk? Tough, we're killing him off.

Whee! A bard! ... That has to be in combat.

Figured out Cecil's dark wave? Well, he's a paladin now. He has cover, which not a one of our playtesters found a use for.

They kept you adapting to new battle situations. You couldn't pick a strategy and stick with it, because it wouldn't work for very long.

Speaking of Cecil's dark wave, the character's battle abilities(in 4, but not 2US) added another layer(except for Rosa's aim, which was just annoying since it SHOULD have replaced fight entirely).

In FF5, what was better? The improved job system, or the tried and true story line with dumb characters? I vote for jobs, and the ability to beat the game on level 9.

The level 9 thing is just masochism.

...

Not unlike Nintendo Power's infamous "Beat FF1 with 4 white mages" challenge, actually.

In FF6, what was less painful? The story or the unrefined magicite system? (both were equaly bad) I vote not to play this game again.

Heh.

I had fun with the equipment screen. Equipping is an art, and one FF6 left more open than most other games in the series.

And of couse, battle skills come back.

Do we use Celes' Runic, and forfiet the ability to use magic untill our next turn? Or do we blow it off, use some magic, and possibly eat an ultima?

Edgar's tools? Use debilitator to soften someone up for our mages? Or just smack 'em with the drill?

Okay, Sabin's easy. Bum rush 'em!

Cyan's sword techs made you weigh the effect VS the charge time. There were some awesomely powerful ones, if you felt you had time to wait for it.

Et cetera.

IMO, FF6 had rather deep gameplay.

In FF7, what was better? The cliched story, or the suberb materia system? Materia system

Well, yeah. Counterbalanced by the lack of a proper equip screen.

In FF8, what was less painful? The story and characters, or the completly unrefined and idiotic junction system? I vote to forget this game ever existed.

I second the vote!

In FF9, what was better? The slightly ripped off story and characters, or the equipment/skill system? Tough call.

YAY FOR EQUIPMENT AND SKILLS!

...

Hey, it had one of my favorite game systems.

I would say... its pretty clear cut. Its my opinion.... but then again, this is all about personal opinion, isn't it?

Yah. Guess so.

Personal opinion is there's a lot more there than people credit some of the games with.

...

Though at one point I described every FF above 3 as suffering from "rubberband syndrome", a term I coined to describe RPGs where all you do is slap OK in most fights because a rubber band could play them as well as a human being.

I think I was in a bad mood at the time.

[Abombz!!]

So all other RPGs suck?

My point is it takes years of training to become proficient in a given skill. You don't just change hats and go "Okay, I know I've never held a blade before, but I'm a swordsman now." It's idiotic.

...

Which isn't to say it's not fun, but it doesn't really make a lot of sense.

I never said that. I said I prefered when I was able to costumize the party, instead of recieving pre-made characters right off the bat.

Well.... so what it takes years? Its an RPG not real life. If you would follow that trail of thought.... RPGs just wouldn't be possible, otherwise learning spells without anyone teaching is idiotic.

And besides... while it might take years to learn something.... pratice makes perfection. If you hold a sword and go around killing animals, of course you will learn how to use a sword. If kill about 1000 animals a day, you will be more proficient with it after a year then you would if you kill 5 animals per year for 50.

I vote for the OTHER stuff.

FF1 was a dungeon crawler. The main point of the game was beating crap up.

Yeah... and having the best jobs was part of beating crap up.

As one of the bigger fans of said system...

The stat system was best. I've never understood why people don't like it.

I liked it myself.... but I was kind of looking at it from the point of view of an average RPGer.

I think Square voted "WHOO! REAL TIME BATTLES!"

But then again.... the characters and story were better.

They also introduced a strategy element since you often had a sub-optimal party.

You get used to having a white mage, and she gets yanked.

Enjoying your monk? Tough, we're killing him off.

Whee! A bard! ... That has to be in combat

.

Yeah... but it was the characters that made watching those useless classes getting whopped after 1 hit entertaining.

The level 9 thing is just masochism.

...

Not unlike Nintendo Power's infamous "Beat FF1 with 4 white mages" challenge, actually.

Its actually... alot of spare time and patience. Everysingle boss had a 1 hit spell weakness or some strategy that allowed the player to beat him without taking damage.

Think thats tough? Try beating it with 1 black mage.

Do we use Celes' Runic, and forfiet the ability to use magic untill our next turn? Or do we blow it off, use some magic, and possibly eat an ultima?

Edgar's tools? Use debilitator to soften someone up for our mages? Or just smack 'em with the drill?

Okay, Sabin's easy. Bum rush 'em!

Cyan's sword techs made you weigh the effect VS the charge time. There were some awesomely powerful ones, if you felt you had time to wait for it.

Et cetera.

IMO, FF6 had rather deep gameplay.

I wouldn't really call that deep gameplay..... use Sabins Boom Rush, Edgards Chainsaw, Celes with the Ultimate sword, and Cyan with sword Tech 4 and the game was beat. Of course... you could always change Celes for Gogo and have him mimic Sabin or Edgard.

.

.

.

....... ok... deep enough.

Personal opinion is there's a lot more there than people credit some of the games with.

Bah! Opinion is like ass.... everyone has one!

Though at one point I described every FF above 3 as suffering from "rubberband syndrome", a term I coined to describe RPGs where all you do is slap OK in most fights because a rubber band could play them as well as a human being.

Yes... and for that reason I thank Capcom and their Auto option in Breath of Fire. B)

Edited September 28, 2003 by Abombz!!

[Isamu Atreides 86]

In FF8, what was less painful? The story and characters, or the completly unrefined and idiotic junction system? I vote to forget this game ever existed.

I second the vote!

boo to the both of ya.

[JB0]

So all other RPGs suck?

My point is it takes years of training to become proficient in a given skill. You don't just change hats and go "Okay, I know I've never held a blade before, but I'm a swordsman now." It's idiotic.

...

Which isn't to say it's not fun, but it doesn't really make a lot of sense.

I never said that. I said I prefered when I was able to costumize the party, instead of recieving pre-made characters right off the bat.

Well.... so what it takes years? Its an RPG not real life. If you would follow that trail of thought.... RPGs just wouldn't be possible, otherwise learning spells without anyone teaching is idiotic.

And besides... while it might take years to learn something.... pratice makes perfection. If you hold a sword and go around killing animals, of course you will learn how to use a sword. If kill about 1000 animals a day, you will be more proficient with it after a year then you would if you kill 5 animals per year for 50.

*sigh*

Which is why MOST RPGs give you characters that've already had the training. They want to maintain some semblance of credibility.

The practice makes perfect argument is for FF2.

'Sides, it's not like game time = real time.

Phantasy Star 3 was multiple generations, if I recall.

But Square just figures "Well, they're wearing the hat, so they can do the job".

...

Though to be fair, they're wearing magic hats.

I vote for the OTHER stuff.

FF1 was a dungeon crawler. The main point of the game was beating crap up.

Yeah... and having the best jobs was part of beating crap up.

But no one character class was really best.

A team of 4 fighters'll die as fast as a team of 4 white mages.

Even the thief had it's uses(running being a big one. my thief saved me more than once when I was in bad shape with no supplies)

As one of the bigger fans of said system...

The stat system was best. I've never understood why people don't like it.

I liked it myself.... but I was kind of looking at it from the point of view of an average RPGer.

Sadly, the average RPGer seems to be "DOOD THIS GAEM SUX ITZ GOT NO FMVS!1111"

I think Square voted "WHOO! REAL TIME BATTLES!"

But then again.... the characters and story were better.

Heh.

I think that one was actually rather balanced. Neither gameplay nor story ever overrode each other.

They also introduced a strategy element since you often had a sub-optimal party.

You get used to having a white mage, and she gets yanked.

Enjoying your monk? Tough, we're killing him off.

Whee! A bard! ... That has to be in combat

.

Yeah... but it was the characters that made watching those useless classes getting whopped after 1 hit entertaining.

Nah. coming into battle with a harp and singing them to death is inherently funny.

Hmmmm...

Bards charge into battle and sing . Basara charges into battle and sings.

I may be onto something here.

The level 9 thing is just masochism.

...

Not unlike Nintendo Power's infamous "Beat FF1 with 4 white mages" challenge, actually.

Its actually... alot of spare time and patience. Everysingle boss had a 1 hit spell weakness or some strategy that allowed the player to beat him without taking damage.

VANISH/DOOM!

...

Except that didn't work in that one.

Do we use Celes' Runic, and forfiet the ability to use magic untill our next turn? Or do we blow it off, use some magic, and possibly eat an ultima?

Edgar's tools? Use debilitator to soften someone up for our mages? Or just smack 'em with the drill?

Okay, Sabin's easy. Bum rush 'em!

Cyan's sword techs made you weigh the effect VS the charge time. There were some awesomely powerful ones, if you felt you had time to wait for it.

Et cetera.

IMO, FF6 had rather deep gameplay.

I wouldn't really call that deep gameplay..... use Sabins Boom Rush, Edgards Chainsaw, Celes with the Ultimate sword, and Cyan with sword Tech 4 and the game was beat. Of course... you could always change Celes for Gogo and have him mimic Sabin or Edgard.

The chainsaw is too variable for my tastes. I got more use from the debilitator and drill.

Personal opinion is there's a lot more there than people credit some of the games with.

Bah! Opinion is like ass.... everyone has one!

And most of them stink.

Though at one point I described every FF above 3 as suffering from "rubberband syndrome", a term I coined to describe RPGs where all you do is slap OK in most fights because a rubber band could play them as well as a human being.

Yes... and for that reason I thank Capcom and their Auto option in Breath of Fire. B)

I've gone more the other way. tri-Ace's Valkyrie Profile and Namco's Tales series.

Fights are fun as hell in those 2. Especially Tales.

[Abombz!!]

But Square just figures "Well, they're wearing the hat, so they can do the job".

It doesn't take much to handle a sword. If you kill about 1000 monsters in 10 minutes.... by the 11 minute you will be much better at the sword then you were when you started.

The only problem would be the magicians.... but I always figured they were carrying books with them.

Which is why MOST RPGs give you characters that've already had the training. They want to maintain some semblance of credibility.

But then again... its not like you start a new job already knowing all skills. Final Fantasy Tactics was the perfect example of job system surpassing the standard system.

But no one character class was really best.

A team of 4 fighters'll die as fast as a team of 4 white mages.

Even the thief had it's uses(running being a big one. my thief saved me more than once when I was in bad shape with no supplies

Yeah... thats why choosing the right combo was a big part of the strategy.

Sadly, the average RPGer seems to be "DOOD THIS GAEM SUX ITZ GOT NO FMVS!1111"

Oh yeah... I forgot that back then there was no average RPGer.

Heh.

I think that one was actually rather balanced. Neither gameplay nor story ever overrode each other.

Can't argue with that... though the story and the characters are always the first things that pop up in my mind when I think of FFIV.

Nah. coming into battle with a harp and singing them to death is inherently funny.

Hmmmm...

Bards charge into battle and sing . Basara charges into battle and sings.

I may be onto something here.

Don't tell me you didn't enjoy watching that useless blonde freak get hammered by lv 1 monsters.

The chainsaw is too variable for my tastes. I got more use from the debilitator and drill.

Bah! Theres nothing like killing monsters..... Jason style!

I've gone more the other way. tri-Ace's Valkyrie Profile and Namco's Tales series.

Fights are fun as hell in those 2. Especially Tales.

Can't argue with that..... don't forget Star Ocean too! B)

[JB0]

But Square just figures "Well, they're wearing the hat, so they can do the job".

It doesn't take much to handle a sword. If you kill about 1000 monsters in 10 minutes.... by the 11 minute you will be much better at the sword then you were when you started.

Human blender, here we come!

Nah. coming into battle with a harp and singing them to death is inherently funny.

Hmmmm...

Bards charge into battle and sing . Basara charges into battle and sings.

I may be onto something here.

Don't tell me you didn't enjoy watching that useless blonde freak get hammered by lv 1 monsters.

But of course.

I've gone more the other way. tri-Ace's Valkyrie Profile and Namco's Tales series.

Fights are fun as hell in those 2. Especially Tales.

Can't argue with that..... don't forget Star Ocean too! B)

Also good. But Tales of Destiny is about the epitome of engaging battles.

...

Especially if you get the accessory that lets you enable "manual" control. Makes it control like a street fighter.

[Skull Leader]

Well... if one was to complain about FF4.... they would be labeled shallow for complaining about its archaic(sp) graphics.

And the fact that the US version was extremely dumbed down.

Ahh, the graphics weren't the best, but I certainly found it very colorful. So what if the characters were some 10 pixels (exaggeration) tall and there weren't any FMVs?? The characters were in traditional FF Style, I loved it! That was back before big-flashy graphics became mainstream and Square still counted on other things, like a solid story, quality music, and good gameplay to sell a title. I seriously doubt I will ever encounter another RPG that did it for me the way FFIV did.

yeah, once I played the japanese version of IV I wondered how I ever put up with the watered down version that got sold stateside... but I ate up FFII (US) when it first came out. you can imagine my joy at the FFIV"Chronicles" release... I picked it up opening day! BUT... I'd still prefer the watered down US version of IV to most final fantasies after VI.

[UN Spacy]

Does anyone else subscribe to EGM? I just got their November issue today and it has a great article on the upcoming Final Fantasy games. B)

[Abombz!!]

yeah, once I played the japanese version of IV I wondered how I ever put up with the watered down version that got sold stateside... but I ate up FFII (US) when it first came out. you can imagine my joy at the FFIV"Chronicles" release... I picked it up opening day! BUT... I'd still prefer the watered down US version of IV to most final fantasies after VI.

I would have loved Chronicles.... if it wasn't for the fact that it took about 5 minutes to save a game and the quick save option wasn't temporary. <_<

That... and the fact that Square screwed up the Chrono Trigger port.

[uminoken]

Hey, even if the new FFVII movie isn't up to par with any other FF property, at least it should have good music; the FFVII Overworld theme being one of my favorite peices in Nobuo's orchestrated collection....any one have any other information on this, or is this the only article released so far?

[Abombz!!]

Hey, even if the new FFVII movie isn't up to par with any other FF property, at least it should have good music; the FFVII Overworld theme being one of my favorite peices in Nobuo's orchestrated collection....any one have any other information on this, or is this the only article released so far?

Square hasn't even said anything about it. The article was "leaked" from ppl who get early editions of monthly Jump magazine.

[Fushigi Rockna]

... is that live action or are they just using Silent Hill 3 graphics!? ._.

Ugh, seeing Cloud and Sephiroth in Kingdom hearts was good enough for me THANK YOU. Don't need them like this.

Besides the fact, it'd be pratically impossible for them all to still be alive. Damn, people can be pretty idiotic at times, can't they. <_<

And i doubt this is real. Square's been working on 3 games simutaneously, they really don't ahve time to do this (these three games being FFX-2, FF tatics for the Game Boy Advance, and FFXI [hereby known as the biggest rip off you'll ever buy!]. And they've already started working on FFXII to go with that. [AND IT'S NO LONGER ONLINE!!! THANK GOD] Oh yes and I forgot the game cube FF game. Dang these guys are working overtime.)

Edited September 29, 2003 by Fushigi Rockna

[Isamu Atreides 86]

i know Squall comes out in Kingdom Hearts, but does it say what hes been up to after FFVIII?

[uminoken]

Ran across this at another board, guess it's okay to post it here (if not feel free to take it down)

"Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children

- It will be released in Summer of 2004.

- It is a DVD movie.

- The price is undecided.

- The quantity of units they will distribute is undecided.

Someone's recap of the Tokyo Game Show footage

"Two years after the fight to save the world..

The world thought peace would be achieved by defeating Holy, but instead their savior was a threat to their very lives.

Cloud—because the Planet had refused all other humans—lived lonely for those two years..

(Video Sample)

(Voice of a Girl): "That day, the power was used. Therefore, the Planet lived; now humankind has become one with the Planet. Many souls, finally at rest, knowing nothing of what happened.."

Cloud is riding a motorcycle.

A silver-haired man appears.

One Winged Angel theme begins.

Cloud: "You are not permitted to be here; you do not belong here."

Sephiroth: "It is so, it is so. Are these your rules?"

Sephiroth turns and walks away into the flames."

[Abombz!!]

So they did all die... didn't they?

[Abombz!!]

And i doubt this is real. Square's been working on 3 games simutaneously, they really don't ahve time to do this (these three games being FFX-2, FF tatics for the Game Boy Advance, and FFXI [hereby known as the biggest rip off you'll ever buy!]. And they've already started working on FFXII to go with that. [AND IT'S NO LONGER ONLINE!!! THANK GOD] Oh yes and I forgot the game cube FF game. Dang these guys are working overtime.)

THose 3 games you mentioned are done. FFT is out, FFX2 is out in a couple of months, and FFXI will be out next month. That is barely what I consider taking up resources. FFXII is already 70% done. The GC FF only needs localizing.

Those barely take up enough resources to get Square busy. And besides... you forget Square could very well hire a studio to do the movie, they don't have to make it themselves.

[Radd]

What do you know? I'm suddenly looking forward to this, if for all the wrong reasons.

[Duke Togo]

I really have to laugh at some of you Final Fantasy "elitists" bashing Final Fantasy VII. Seems to be the "cool" thing to do, when it does little besides show your ignorace of the Final Fantasy series. Now, opinion is opinion, ans it cannot be debated. But when a game like Final Fantasy VII is being portrayed as little more than eye candy, and a disgrace to the series, well, all I can say is you haven't a clue as to what you are talking about. You would have been saying the same thing about VI (a game you champion) had it originally come out on the PSX with the graphic advantage that VII had. Your argument is laughable, and your opinion is lacking in any solid evidence.

If anything, VII moved the series into a more "adult" frame of mind, where characters no longer acted like clowns, like some sort of sterotipical anime comedy. Going back and playing the older games in the series, the goofiness becomes all too apparent, and is probably one of the reasons why Final Fantasy was always second fiddle to the Dragon Quest series.

This is coming from someone who first played Final Fantasy over a decade ago, and who has completed all 10 games of the series, along with Tactics. I can also safely say that not a one game in the series is a deep as Xenogears or has the flowing dialog of Vagrant Story, neither of which would have been available to me as a gamer in North America if not for Final Fantasy VII.

It might work on the gaming boards you frequent, but your elitist attitude impress no one here, especially me.

[Abombz!!]

I really have to laugh at some of you Final Fantasy "elitists" bashing Final Fantasy VII. Seems to be the "cool" thing to do, when it does little besides show your ignorace of the Final Fantasy series. Now, opinion is opinion, ans it cannot be debated. But when a game like Final Fantasy VII is being portrayed as little more than eye candy, and a disgrace to the series, well, all I can say is you haven't a clue as to what you are talking about. You would have been saying the same thing about VI (a game you champion) had it originally come out on the PSX with the graphic advantage that VII had. Your argument is laughable, and your opinion is lacking in any solid evidence.

If anything, VII moved the series into a more "adult" frame of mind, where characters no longer acted like clowns, like some sort of sterotipical anime comedy. Going back and playing the older games in the series, the goofiness becomes all too apparent, and is probably one of the reasons why Final Fantasy was always second fiddle to the Dragon Quest series.

This is coming from someone who first played Final Fantasy over a decade ago, and who has completed all 10 games of the series, along with Tactics. I can also safely say that not a one game in the series is a deep as Xenogears or has the flowing dialog of Vagrant Story, neither of which would have been available to me as a gamer in North America if not for Final Fantasy VII.

I don't think its so much as being cool to bash something.... but I think ppl bash FFVII simply because, gamers love to bash games that brought a genre into the casual gamer mind. FF7 did that... it brough RPGs to the masses. And while some might consider FF7 to be a casual gamer RPG.... I find the Materia system to be far too deep for the casual gamer.

To be honest.... FF8 was the true embodiment of what RPG elitists hate about FF7. You had FMVs every 5 minutes, you had eye candy anywhere you went, extremely shallow characters, bad music, a clunky badly executed game system, the ever so lame time travel gimmick, the lack of equipments, spells now counted like items... I could go on for a while... and the same can be said about FFX too.

As for the more adult frame of mind.... thats extremely debatable. FF7 characters were still SD, they still cracked jokes every so often, and you had Yuffie who was pretty much a comic relief character. The level of maturity of FF7 was the same as FF4, and none of its characters acted as clowns. If you still think so... do you care to quote or even point out where FF4 characters acted like clowns?

Now... FF6 had nothing but comic relief characters. As for Vagrant Story.... it might have been released here, or it might have not. Vagrant Story was not an RPG... it was a genre of its own. The only thing that indicated that FF7 might have helped it be released in the US.... was that VS did extremely poorly in Japan. But then again.... Chrono Cross was raved by reviewers everywhere.... and it sold less then 50k units in the US.

It might work on the gaming boards you frequent, but your elitist attitude impress no one here, especially me.

I don't think anyone here cares if you are impressed or not. <_<

[Duke Togo]

I don't think its so much as being cool to bash something.... but I think ppl bash FFVII simply because, gamers love to bash games that brought a genre into the casual gamer mind. FF7 did that... it brough RPGs to the masses. And while some might consider FF7 to be a casual gamer RPG.... I find the Materia system to be far too deep for the casual gamer.

I disagree with your first point, and agree with your second. A Vast majority of fans like VII, and it seems that a very small group like to think they are above all of us for liking it. They claim to love the "old school" RPG, and everything since 16-bit if garbage. I am also guessing most of these people aren't old enough to vote. I am truely an old school gamer, I started with the Atari 2600, and I LOVE Final Fantasy VII.

To be honest.... FF8 was the true embodiment of what RPG elitists hate about FF7. You had FMVs every 5 minutes, you had eye candy anywhere you went, extremely shallow characters, bad music, a clunky badly executed game system, the ever so lame time travel gimmick, the lack of equipments, spells now counted like items... I could go on for a while... and the same can be said about FFX too.

I agree with your first point, and disgaree with your second on this one. I don't think its the elitists that hate VIII, I think just about EVERYONE hates Final Fantasy VIII. Its truely a putrid game, I could not care less about the characters, and the game was just plain bad. On the other hand, I LOVE Final Fantasy X (with the exception of the mini-games they pass of as side quests. They entirely destroy the flow of the game). I thought the addition of voice added a dimension to the characters we were not able to have before, and I loved it. I also think the characters of Wakka and Auron are stand outs in the Final Fantasy series.

As for the more adult frame of mind.... thats extremely debatable. FF7 characters were still SD, they still cracked jokes every so often, and you had Yuffie who was pretty much a comic relief character. The level of maturity of FF7 was the same as FF4, and none of its characters acted as clowns. If you still think so... do you care to quote or even point out where FF4 characters acted like clowns?

Completely disagree here, on all counts. There was plenty of zaininess in Final Fantasy IV, and I do not care nor do I have the time to go through and document the character's actions in in. I also do not consider the characters in Final Fantasy VII to be "super deformed". They were the most correct portrayal of humans up to that point int he series, both on the map, in battle, and in the FMV.

I don't think anyone here cares if you are impressed or not. <_< 

They obviously do, and I believe I said "anyone here, especially me", not just "me".

Edited September 29, 2003 by Duke Togo

[Skull Leader]

I would have loved Chronicles.... if it wasn't for the fact that it took about 5 minutes to save a game and the quick save option wasn't temporary.

That... and the fact that Square screwed up the Chrono Trigger port.

Were you playing chronicles on a PS2? The save/load time was considerably reduced when I played it on my PS2 over my PS1.

What did they mess up on Chronotrigger? I played and beat it when I had it on SNES, but I'm not recalling much difference... what did I miss?

[Skull Leader]

It might work on the gaming boards you frequent, but your elitist attitude impress no one here, especially me.

I have a list of people I try to impress man, and *surprise surprise*, you're nowhere on it.

I'm not bashing FFVII because of popular opinion or anything like that... I don't even "champion" FFVI. It was a good game but hardly my favorite. The key detail you're missing here is that there are OTHERS who have played all 11+ (I'm counting the game boy games, mystic quest, AND I have a friend beta-testing FFXI online, so I've seen it in action) I've also played several of the dragon quest series, Xenogears, Suikoden I&II (III is hard to find around here), Breath of Fire series, and countless others not worth mentioning. The fact is, there are several others who can draw from the exact same pool of experience YOU so proudly invoke and come up with different answers.

I used to be a moderator for the boards over at FFonline (WAAAYYY back in the day... try when 7 was just becoming hot and 8 was still an anticipated rumor)...and I saw plenty of people who would up and change opinions about 7 in the middle of a discussion. I was a moderator on the FFIV board, but I ventured over enough to see what was going on. You want to see people surfing the popular opinon, go over there. (btw: I left those boards when they became little more than a comparison for what one FF had that was better than the other... I really stopped liking it then)

Others can make educated answers here man... I understand it's all opinion, but just because I don't like FFVII doesn't mean I don't know about Final Fantasy. I'm not an elitist or a bandwagon kind of person. I likewise understand that your statements may or may not have been aimed at me, but there are others here who may sit in similar situations.

[Abombz!!]

I would have loved Chronicles.... if it wasn't for the fact that it took about 5 minutes to save a game and the quick save option wasn't temporary.

That... and the fact that Square screwed up the Chrono Trigger port.

Were you playing chronicles on a PS2? The save/load time was considerably reduced when I played it on my PS2 over my PS1.

What did they mess up on Chronotrigger? I played and beat it when I had it on SNES, but I'm not recalling much difference... what did I miss?

I'm talking about the low frame rate intro and cutscenes. The new intro theme can't even begin to compare to the old. <_<

[Abombz!!]

I disagree with your first point, and agree with your second. A Vast majority of fans like VII, and it seems that a very small group like to think they are above all of us for liking it. They claim to love the "old school" RPG, and everything since 16-bit if garbage. I am also guessing most of these people aren't old enough to vote. I am truely an old school gamer, I started with the Atari 2600, and I LOVE Final Fantasy VII.

agree with your first point, and disgaree with your second on this one. I don't think its the elitists that hate VIII, I think just about EVERYONE hates Final Fantasy VIII. Its truely a putrid game, I could not care less about the characters, and the game was just plain bad. On the other hand, I LOVE Final Fantasy X (with the exception of the mini-games they pass of as side quests. They entirely destroy the flow of the game). I thought the addition of voice added a dimension to the characters we were not able to have before, and I loved it. I also think the characters of Wakka and Auron are stand outs in the Final Fantasy series.

For one... I don't hate or love FF7. I just find it to be a good game... and well worth my time. I have the PC version, and I play it every so often. I find the Materia system to be the best thing to ever grace an RPG since they decided to add "shelter" and "tent" like items.

agree with your first point, and disgaree with your second on this one. I don't think its the elitists that hate VIII, I think just about EVERYONE hates Final Fantasy VIII. Its truely a putrid game, I could not care less about the characters, and the game was just plain bad. On the other hand, I LOVE Final Fantasy X (with the exception of the mini-games they pass of as side quests. They entirely destroy the flow of the game). I thought the addition of voice added a dimension to the characters we were not able to have before, and I loved it. I also think the characters of Wakka and Auron are stand outs in the Final Fantasy series.

The side characters were good.... but the 2 main characters were seriously lacking. It was the first time in any FF that I actualy wanted Yuna and Tidus to die. And just to think that Square created a game centered around Yuna really left a sour after taste in my mouth. <_<

Not only Auron and Wakka.... but Lulu was the best character design in any FF to date.

Completely disagree here, on all counts. There was plenty of zaininess in Final Fantasy IV, and I do not care nor do I have the time to go through and document the character's actions in in. I also do not consider the characters in Final Fantasy VII to be "super deformed". They were the most correct portrayal of humans up to that point int he series, both on the map, in battle, and in the FMV.

You do not consider FF7 characters to be SD? How? They were exactly like every other FF character protrait untill that point. Heck... even FF6 characters were better portraited then FF7. The only instance where FF7 characters were accuratly portrait were during certain FMVs where they seemed to have everything in the right proportion.

As for FF4... they had Pollon and Porom as comic relief... who did not stick around long enough. The main characters: Cecil, Rosa, Rydia, Cain and the ninja dude.... were as serious as most of the FF7 characters, not counting Barret, Yuffie and Cait Sith.

[Duke Togo]

You do not consider FF7 characters to be SD? How? They were exactly like every other FF character protrait untill that point. Heck... even FF6 characters were better portraited then FF7. The only instance where FF7 characters were accuratly portrait were during certain FMVs where they seemed to have everything in the right proportion.

No, I don't consider them to be SD. Sure, they have that distinct early PSX polygon look, but their heads are fairly in proportion to their bodies. The more human-like designs also allow them for a greater range of emotion, as compared to their past 8-bit and 16-bit counterparts. As far as I am concerned, there is no comparison.

[Jemstone]

There are MANY RPG elitists who like to bash Final Fantasy VII, calling it eye candy without much substance, the downfall of the Final Fantasy series, etc. Besides being just plain wrong, they fail to see the big picture. Final Fantasy VII MADE the Playstation as a console, and put it where it is today. It changed the way games looked, and it blew the doors off of the RPG market worldwide.

As we all know, RPG's had long be the staple of the video gaming industry in Japan, but in the US and elsewhere it had always been a distant cousin to action/adventure games that dominated the market. Final Fantasy VII changed all of that. Because of the popularity of Final Fantasy VII, a flood of RPG titles were brought into the market. MANY of the games us RPG fans have available to play today are there because of this.

Whether you like the game or not, you have to recognize its significance. Final Fantasy VII was the single most important and influential game of the 1990's.

Togo, you give far too much credit to FF7 where opening the doors in the US where RPGs are concerned. You forget another little Square RPG that introduced many to genre for the simple fact it starred Nintendo's biggest star, Mario. I'd say that RPGs were being more appreciated after Super Mario RPG and it opened the doors. FF7 simply fortified the genre in the states.

[Duke Togo]

Togo, you give far too much credit to FF7 where opening the doors in the US where RPGs are concerned. You forget another little Square RPG that introduced many to genre for the simple fact it starred Nintendo's biggest star, Mario. I'd say that RPGs were being more appreciated after Super Mario RPG and it opened the doors. FF7 simply fortified the genre in the states.

You're not even close, it didn't reach anywhere near as close the audiance Final Fantasy VII did. The sales numbers are just not there to back up your argument.

[Jemstone]

Togo, you give far too much credit to FF7 where opening the doors in the US where RPGs are concerned. You forget another little Square RPG that introduced many to genre for the simple fact it starred Nintendo's biggest star, Mario. I'd say that RPGs were being more appreciated after Super Mario RPG and it opened the doors. FF7 simply fortified the genre in the states.

You're not even close, it didn't reach anywhere near as close the audiance Final Fantasy VII did. The sales numbers are just not there to back up your argument.

I'm not saying it did. I'm saying is Mario RPG helped to make RPGs more "known" out here in the states. I don't think FF7 did that all on it's own in making RPGs noticed. The rest I agree with you on.