Final Fantasy 7-2 ?!

[JB0]

No, if the Lifestream was going to reclaim everyone, then it would have just let Meteor hit and been done with it. It protected everyone from Meteor, everyone survived, and abandoned materia based technology. THAT was the purpose in seeing the ruins with overgrowth.

But Meteor would've killed the planet, not just the life on its surface. The lifestream saved ITSELF. Whether it saved those obnoxious humans is open to debate.

[yellowlightman]

SquareEnix is doomed untill they realize there's more to life than FF.

They could be milking Front Mission and Seiken Densetsu.

They could have made Xenogears the best game ever, instead of half a game followed by a slide show.

They could make more new games, like Einhander and PE were.

Well, they are working on re-starting the Front Mission franchise.

But I totally agree, during the PS1's heydey Square really branched out and did some cool, original stuff. Even if Ergheiz and Chocobo Racing weren't all that good, at least they were trying new stuff. Bushido Blade was amazing. Loved that game.

Personally, I've always found Square pretty overrated. They seem to keep re-hashing the same old RPG formula over and over again, throwing in more cinemas doesn't count as originality/

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

As for those who think square have lost their touch, might I remind you about the unexpectedly phenominal Kingdom Hearts.

I can't wait for Kh2 chain of Memories.

[Wes]

Square hasn't lost its touch, it's just going where the money is: their usual strategy. <_

[Max Jenius]

Yeah, the FF ending was supposed to be everyone in Midgar at least ... transcending... or dying.

On the whole, Final Fantasy 7 wasn't that great... but it got a lot of people into Final Fantasy... a new generation perhaps.

[Duke Togo]

Jesus, I swear to God, I wonder sometimes. I should have just stopped reading all together, and now look at what I get myself in to. I am forced to come back to back up Keith.

First off, Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children is a movie, not a game, for those who didn't know. Secondly, everyone didn't die at the end of Final Fantasy VII. Thirdly, the remakes that were scrapped DID NOT include the ability to revive Aeris. It was never ever hinted at. SHE'S DEAD. ACCEPT IT.

While I am on the subject, I should remind everyone that Final Fantasy XII has been developed by the team behind Ogre/Final Fantasy Tactics/Vagrant Story, and is near completion. If that isn't enough to give you faith in Square Enix, I don't know what is. Also, Xenogears HAS been updated for the PS2, its called Xenosaga. Episode I is out, with II on the way.

And before I forget, THE CHARACTER WE SEE METAL GEAR SOLID 3 IS BIG BOSS, NOT SOLID SNAKE. I thought that I should just remind everyone before the subject comes up again.

[bsu legato]

Jesus, I swear to God, I wonder sometimes. I should have just stopped reading all together, and now look at what I get myself in to. I am forced to come back to back up Keith.

Wow, that has to suck.

Well, it's nice to see you back anyway, big guy. :beerchug:

[Duke Togo]

Wait wait, I'm not done yet. I would also like to address the popularity of Final Fantasy VII. Let me first say that I played my first console RPG in the early 80's, that being "Adventure" for the Atari 2600. I've been hooked ever since.

There are MANY RPG elitists who like to bash Final Fantasy VII, calling it eye candy without much substance, the downfall of the Final Fantasy series, etc. Besides being just plain wrong, they fail to see the big picture. Final Fantasy VII MADE the Playstation as a console, and put it where it is today. It changed the way games looked, and it blew the doors off of the RPG market worldwide.

As we all know, RPG's had long be the staple of the video gaming industry in Japan, but in the US and elsewhere it had always been a distant cousin to action/adventure games that dominated the market. Final Fantasy VII changed all of that. Because of the popularity of Final Fantasy VII, a flood of RPG titles were brought into the market. MANY of the games us RPG fans have available to play today are there because of this.

Whether you like the game or not, you have to recognize its significance. Final Fantasy VII was the single most important and influential game of the 1990's.

Edited September 29, 2003 by Duke Togo

[Abombz!!]

As for those who think square have lost their touch, might I remind you about the unexpectedly phenominal Kingdom Hearts.

I can't wait for Kh2 chain of Memories.

Chain of memories is the name of the GBA KH game... the true sequel to the first KH. While KH2 is set after Chain of memories.

[Druna Skass]

And before I forget, THE CHARACTER WE SEE METAL GEAR SOLID 3 IS BIG BOSS, NOT SOLID SNAKE. I thought that I should just remind everyone before the subject comes up again.

Actualy I'm still kind of skeptial about that since Kojima likes to screw with the fans' heads, remember how Raiden just came out of left field? The Big Boss indications seem a little obvious...

I wonder if that could be Solidus, since Solidus did look a bit older than Snake...

Edited September 26, 2003 by Druna Skass

[Skull Leader]

There are MANY RPG elitetists who like to bash Final Fantasy VII, calling it eye candy without much substance, the downfall of the Final Fantasy series, etc. Besides being just plain wrong, they fail to see the big picture. Final Fantasy VII MADE the Playstation as a console, and put it where it is today. It changed the way games looked, and it blew the doors off of the RPG market worldwide.

As we all know, RPG's had long be the staple of the video gaming industry in Japan, but in the US and elsewhere it had always been a distant cousin to action/adventure games that dominated the market. Final Fantasy VII changed all of that. Because of the popularity of Final Fantasy VII, a flood of RPG titles were brought into the market. MANY of the games us RPG fans have available to play today are there because of this.

Whether you like the game or not, you have to recognize its significance. Final Fantasy VII was the single most important and influential game of the 1990's.

This is so much of what the bull leaves behind him on the road.

FFVII was an insult to the FF series. It was a decent game in it's own right, but hardly worthy of the Final Fantasy title. Shallow story (c'mon, what happened to multiple plot lines occuring at once??). If they'd spent less memory on graphics and more memory on story depth and sideplots (I'm very sorry to say that this is one area where FFVIII whips the holy crap out of VII)... and when random "special" monsters have to be ADDED to the American version just to make it more desirable?? Probably the worst ending in the History of an FF game (okay, it LOOKS pretty... and you freaks that think you can hear the grass grow "think" you know how it ends.....but let's get real here..... "transcendence".... "salvation..." OKAAAAAYYYY......they could have AT LEAST said "and they lived happily ever after") This isn't to say there weren't cool gimmicks in the game, but not enough to save it... here is where Square strayed too far from the formula.

I will admit, it probably made the console... but it destroyed the series in the process... hardly an acceptable tradeoff. FF games AFTER FFVI "AREN'T" (with the exception of "Tactics"). Period.

I say let bad enough lie... VII has already done enough damage... maybe it DID bring in a flow of RPGs that might never have seen the light of day in the US, but most people will admit that a GOOD RPG is getting harder and harder to find.

[H Kakizaki]

I should remind everyone that Final Fantasy XII has been developed by the team behind Ogre/Final Fantasy Tactics/Vagrant Story, and  is near completion.

The FFXII site is up (or it has for sometime, if so, then its been updated) although, there's not much there.

http://www.ff12.com/

About FFVII:AC, here's a little snip-it on the plot from rpgfan.com:

"At a hotel near Chiba's Makuhari Messe, Square Enix has confirmed that just like Final Fantasy VII back then, Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children is being developed by Yoshinori Kitase's production team 1. Advent Children will be a high-quality CG movie of about 60 minutes in length. Final Fantasy VII's returning protagonist, Cloud Strife, will face a new foe and his calm, post-meteor world [will face] a new threat in form of the Star Scar Syndrome. Plans for this new project were drawn up 1.5 years ago and members from the original Final Fantasy VII development team have been brought together again."

Edited September 26, 2003 by H Kakizaki

[Abombz!!]

The only problem I had with FF7 was its incredibly bad music. It was on CD! Why the heck did Square use MIDI music? Even Tactics that was out around the same time as 7 has orchestrated music. The tunes weren't bad.... but the music quality was.

Still... FF7 did manage to add a few things to the FF series and RPGs as a whole.... the second best (if not the best) villian of all RPGs... second only to Kefka. The Materia system, which was far better then the esper system from FF6, the crap junction system from FF8, the item skill from FF9, and the terrible grid system of FFX. The limit break system that has been copied by just about every single RPG now a days.

As far as FF goes.... was 7 bad? Sure. As a stand alone game.... it was pretty good. Much better then a ton of critically aclaimed RPGs that came out after it.

And whats all this love for Aerith? She was a turd character. She was the worst character available, her limit breaks were useless. Her magic stats? Not much better then the other magic/fighter hybrids. She was ugly (Tifa and Yuffie were better look IMO), was not charismatic at all.... and she deserved to have died a worst death that what sephiroth did to her.

[TriShield]

This is so much of what the bull leaves behind him on the road.

Whoa, talk about pot - kettle - black.

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

As for those who think square have lost their touch, might I remind you about the unexpectedly phenominal Kingdom Hearts.

I can't wait for Kh2 chain of Memories.

Chain of memories is the name of the GBA KH game... the true sequel to the first KH. While KH2 is set after Chain of memories.

Thanl you for pointing that out to me Abombz.

[Radd]

I have to agree with the Duke here. I'd been playing Final Fantasy games long enough to hear all the RPG geeks complaining that Final Fantasy III(VI in Japan) was nothing but eye candy and fancy graphics, with a craptastic story and dull characters. I remember people complaining that the end of FFVI was nothing but a flashy cinema sequence and a huge let down.

How many other people remember this?

As for Final Fantasy VII? Well, it did have the deepest, most well written and well developed cast of characters since Final Fantasy IV. Sure, most of the characters in FFVI were more likable, but the stories, feelings, and personalities of the characters were more fleshed out in VII. Even better, to see all this "fleshing out" you had to go on side quests and find certain areas where these stories would be told. Like the waterfall where you got to see Vincent's story, or the secret sequence where you learned all about Zack, which fleshed out Cloud even more. There was even a huge long sequence that delved into Yuffie's character.

Kinda beats out the stories and character developement we got for Mog and the Yeti in VI, doesn't it? Not to mention Gogo's back story, remember that one? No, of course not.

And if the main plot of Final Fantasy VII was so simple, how come we are still debating the ending? FF VI's story was simple. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed it immensley, but for being the crown jewl in the FF crown (according to most fanboys) it sure is simple compared to not only FFVII, but FFIV as well. FFV had even less going for it.

My theory behind the complaints on FFVII is that so much less was spelled out for the audience. You actually had to read between the lines and think for yourself to see all that was going on. Not to mention the fact that for the side quests, there was nothing pointing you at them. No hint of their existance. You either had to be one of those RPG gamers that scoured the map for secrets, or one of those RPG gamers that scoured the cheat guides for secrets, to even know they were there.

[Abombz!!]

Kinda beats out the stories and character developement we got for Mog and the Yeti in VI, doesn't it? Not to mention Gogo's back story, remember that one? No, of course not.

Actually... GoGo was a FF5 villian, appearing as a guest character in 6. He and Umago were secret characters.

Why do ppl complain about 6? The same reason why some complain about Chrono Cross. Too many characters, very little development for them. Really.... the only really usefull characters in FF6 were Edgard, Sabin, Cyan and Celes. <_<

As for ppl bashing 7.... it cool to bash something successful. Just look at every major fandom.

Edited September 26, 2003 by Abombz!!

[Effect]

Actually... GoGo was a FF5 villian, appearing as a guest character in 6. He and Umago were secret characters.

Oh. I didn't know that. Then again I never got a chance to finish Final Fantasy 5. Not because it wasn't good cause it really was, just haven't gotten around to playing it. I need to start over, its been a while and I don't have a clue that to do next. I don't even remember where I was.

[JB0]

Wait wait, I'm not done yet. I would also like to address the popularity of Final Fantasy VII. Let me first say that I played my first console RPG in the early 80's, that being "Adventure" for the Atari 2600. I've been hooked ever since.

But Adventure wasn't an RPG.

It wasn an adventure.

Dragonstomper was an RPG, though.

As we all know, RPG's had long be the staple of the video gaming industry in Japan, but in the US and elsewhere it had always been a distant cousin to action/adventure games that dominated the market. Final Fantasy VII changed all of that. Because of the popularity of Final Fantasy VII, a flood of RPG titles were brought into the market. MANY of the games us RPG fans have available to play today are there because of this.

There was a brief flood. Then things died back down as people realized that what "RPG fan" means in America is "Square whore who just likes staring at FMVs".

Things now are about back at the pre-FF7 days. The odd RPG gets released, but no one pays any attention to it.

The exception is a game released by Square.

Whether you like the game or not, you have to recognize its significance. Final Fantasy VII was the single most important and influential game of the 1990's.

And this is a GOOD thing?

FF7's biggest contribution to the industry was undoing all the lessons learned since the introduction of CD-ROM technology about graphics VS playability.

Do you remember the swarm of FMV games on literally everything? Grainy video, minimal interactivity, but it was FMV so it would be good.

Only it wasn't. There wasn't any gameplay. No meat to back up the pretty movie clip gravy.

It was a hard, painful lesson to learn.

The industry has again forgotten that a game has to do more than look good, that it has to PLAY good.

And I think we can both agree that hailing FF7 for birthing the modern graphics whore is just INCREDIBLY wrong.

When you strip the FMVs and pre-rendered backgrounds from FF7, what you're left with is a mediocre game. It shows promise, but takes a perverse pleasure in shooting itself in the foot every time it's about to cross the line from average to great.

[KingNor]

I've never seen a more clear cut example of people tring to ram their own OPINIONS down each others throats.

If you liked FF7 and want more, go see this movie.

If you liked FF7 and think its good how it is, don't see this movie.

If you hate FF7, don't see this movie.

Some people liked this game, some people didn't. Most of us played it while relatively young so our opinions on it are somewhat deep rooted; good or bad. Changings someones opinion on this is not only going to be extreemly difficult, but ultimatly pointless.

[gnollman]

Thanks for clearing out all the crap, KingNor....

I liked FF VII immensely, therefore I will buy this DVD. Simple as that.

I also enjoyed FFX, and I like J-pop, therefore I shall buy FFX-2 when it makes it to the States.

Been playing FF since the release of FF I on NES years back, and I like VII best for most of the reasons mentioned elsewhere in this topic. FF VI I also thoroughly enjoyed. FFIX, not so much. FF VIII, not so much.

I also liked Xenogears, so I'll be buying all of Xenosaga, I suppose.... though I really like the new character designs for Part 2.....

[Skull Leader]

bah, such debate can be a healthy thing... no one's getting hurt, right?

I could happily make an evening out of watching my dog relieve his bowels on my copy of FFVII (if I weren't such a damn completist..).... I respect that others out there may not feel the same, just thought I'd say that.

In all honesty, I've never heard someone bash VI before (my second favorite)... most people I've talked to seemed to think that it was the immaculate version of Final Fantasy. I still think IV was the best mix of good music, colorful graphics, and a wonderful storyline. And in terms of playability, well... what other game allows you to stock multiple sets of 99 hi-potions??

[Abombz!!]

bah, such debate can be a healthy thing... no one's getting hurt, right?

I could happily make an evening out of watching my dog relieve his bowels on my copy of FFVII (if I weren't such a damn completist..).... I respect that others out there may not feel the same, just thought I'd say that.

In all honesty, I've never heard someone bash VI before (my second favorite)... most people I've talked to seemed to think that it was the immaculate version of Final Fantasy. I still think IV was the best mix of good music, colorful graphics, and a wonderful storyline. And in terms of playability, well... what other game allows you to stock multiple sets of 99 hi-potions??

Well... if one was to complain about FF4.... they would be labeled shallow for complaining about its archaic(sp) graphics.

And the fact that the US version was extremely dumbed down. <_<

[Abombz!!]

I also enjoyed FFX, and I like J-pop, therefore I shall buy FFX-2 when it makes it to the States.

AH! But do you like english dubbed J-pop songs?

[Isamu Atreides 86]

I also enjoyed FFX, and I like J-pop, therefore I shall buy FFX-2 when it makes it to the States.

AH! But do you like english dubbed J-pop songs?

eyes on me was (FFVIII) an okay song....

*prepares for massive barrage of insults....*

[Akilae]

I also enjoyed FFX, and I like J-pop, therefore I shall buy FFX-2 when it makes it to the States.

AH! But do you like english dubbed J-pop songs?

eyes on me was (FFVIII) an okay song....

*prepares for massive barrage of insults....*

err.. Eyes on Me was meant to be an English song... at least the original Faye Wong version is sung in English.

In and of itself, taking in the cultural context, FFX-2 has its appeal, at least I liked the opening song... well, I'm an avid J-pop fan If they dare dub it in the American release though........

How was Kingdom Heart's dubbed song? The original Japanese version by Hikaru Utada was quite nice, never got a chance (or the guts :-p) to listen to the English verion.

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

I also enjoyed FFX, and I like J-pop, therefore I shall buy FFX-2 when it makes it to the States.

AH! But do you like english dubbed J-pop songs?

eyes on me was (FFVIII) an okay song....

*prepares for massive barrage of insults....*

err.. Eyes on Me was meant to be an English song... at least the original Faye Wong version is sung in English.

In and of itself, taking in the cultural context, FFX-2 has its appeal, at least I liked the opening song... well, I'm an avid J-pop fan If they dare dub it in the American release though........

How was Kingdom Heart's dubbed song? The original Japanese version by Hikaru Utada was quite nice, never got a chance (or the guts :-p) to listen to the English verion.

I liked both Hikari and Simple and Clean.For me they were o.k, but I know others would disagree.

[Max Jenius]

I am by no means an RPG elitist, but I've played my fair share of console RPGs(The larger ones for PC leave me with an empty feeling because of the time investment... so I can't really sit down for 20 minutes and feel like I've accomplished something... but that's just my personal taste.) I play RPGs because to me, they're like interactive books. Final Fantasy 7 was a whole lot of fun in its day, but there's many other titles that I get more satisfaction out of(both tactics games included).

I do intend to see this movie one way or another, regardless of my interpretation of the game ending(which incidentally is open ended enough for a multitude of interpretations[btw- Meteor obviously did NOT impact.])

Oh... and Aerith did suck. Yuffie was the token female in my party.

PS- Duke ole buddy, I find it hilarious that you mentioned elitist. Pot calling the kettle black?

[Abombz!!]

I also enjoyed FFX, and I like J-pop, therefore I shall buy FFX-2 when it makes it to the States.

AH! But do you like english dubbed J-pop songs?

eyes on me was (FFVIII) an okay song....

*prepares for massive barrage of insults....*

err.. Eyes on Me was meant to be an English song... at least the original Faye Wong version is sung in English.

In and of itself, taking in the cultural context, FFX-2 has its appeal, at least I liked the opening song... well, I'm an avid J-pop fan If they dare dub it in the American release though........

How was Kingdom Heart's dubbed song? The original Japanese version by Hikaru Utada was quite nice, never got a chance (or the guts :-p) to listen to the English verion.

Both are good songs. Each songs extended version is very similar to the other, with different lyrics. As for the remixed version (the one that plays in the intro), they have different beats, and slightly different rythms. If it wasn't for my inability to find the extended english version.... I would listen to both.

As for Eyes on me.... it was meant to be in english, not rushedly dubbed for an american release. The same can be said about Xenogears ending song and I'm the Wind from Castelvania: Symphoni of the Night.

But one thing I don't get.... why translate the songs in FFX-2? FFX had "Suteki da ne?" (for those who don't know, its the ending song, and the song that plays during Tidus and Yuna first kiss) unaltered in the American release. <_<

[Abombz!!]

One thing I don't get. Some ppl here are clearly RPG elitist, and thats quite obvious. They clearly bash FF7s story. But if they were really RPG elitist.... they would realize that odd numbered FFs always concentrate of game system while even numbered FFs concentrate on story and character.

Lets look at them all, shall we?

FFI: the first FF. Lets give it a break, it had a decent story for its time and absolutly no character development. Heck, none of the character had a personality. What was the focus point? The job system.

FFII: each character was unique, and the story was fairly entertaining, to say the least. What about game system? Meh... nothing particularly special that would be worth mentioning.

FFIII: once again, it featured shallow, featureless characters (Onion kid anyone?), and run of the mill plot. The Job system!! With 30 or so Job classes, the main point of this game was to play as a Dark Knight, or Viking.... some of the Job classes that would never be available again in any other game.

FFVI: Character and story to die for. Game system? Each character had its own class, and each of them learned spells as they grew. A system that, back then, had already been massed produced.

FFV: While the characters were unique, and had development, they weren't all that great. The story was campy at best. It featured a down graded, yet deeper, job system, that featured only a few classes. Interesting system that only FF and Dragon Quest seem to have mastered.

FFVI: Err.... I don't really know what Square was thinking with this one. Some of the character went through alot of development, while others were just too uninteresting. The story was fairly good. it first introduced selectable party members, and the magic system was.... err, a variation of the typical learn as you go. I consider this to be FFs heretic, though it featured the best RPG villian to date, the maniac Kefka.

FFVII: Cloud was the only character to be really developed in here. The story was your typical "lets save the world". Was a little heavy on FMVs. As for a system, it featured the Materia system, which is by far the best magic system to grace a FF game or any RPG. It introduced the Limit break system, that would be copied in every other RPG to come out after FFVII. And as last merit.... Sephiroth is the second best vilian in any RPG, and the first futuristic FF..

FFVIII: Fairly good characters, each recieved a fairly good amount of development. Story was its major achievement. Most player forced themselves to play this game because the story was that good. As for magic system... the junction system was the worst idea Square could have come up with. Its completly unbalanced and annoying. It introduced overly long summons (I will never call that a merit). FOr its merit.... Ragnarok is the best "airship" to ever grace FF.

FFIX: Some characters we well developed, some weren't. The story was so-so. The game system was another variation of the learn as you go system, but with a twist, you really had to spend time learning those skills.

FFX: I didn't like its story. Tidus and Yuna are the worst couple to date. Yuna was the ugliest main female I have ever seen. She was not charismatic at all. The story was interesting, although a little too religion heavy. The grid system sucked. It was once again a variation of the job system. Its main problem.... giving the player the ability to break 9999 damage limit made the game way too easy.

FF Tactics: Had everything perfect. No need to discuss it.

Then theres FF11.... and for now, I bet Square will break the tradition of the odd=system even=story tradition. I really think they should have named it FF Online.

See? Give FF7 a break. The main attraction of FF7 was its system. And the so called "RPG Elitists" should've known that.

P.S. To those who had the patience to read all this BS.... please feel free to add or correct.

Edited September 27, 2003 by Abombz!!

[Toby Danger]

Ah, to say Square has lost its touch is a little harsh. Sure it's made some mistakes and some crap, but then again, who hasn't? And I still fail to see how FF7 is crap. I think it is the greatest in the series, next to 8 (and yes I have played all of them, with the exception of FF3 - japan).

The whole FFVII-2 deal in my mind is like all the live action crap coming out (like evangelion). I'll see it even though it might suck, but it'll be interesting how they take it.

I, for one, hope that Final Fantasies live on but the fact that they're resorting to sequals, IMO, isn't a good sign...

Edited September 27, 2003 by Toby Danger

[Akilae]

But one thing I don't get.... why translate the songs in FFX-2? FFX had "Suteki da ne?" (for those who don't know, its the ending song, and the song that plays during Tidus and Yuna first kiss) unaltered in the American release.

ah, okay, I didn't know that... haven't finished the game. Somehow there's no pressing impetus to actually continue on with it for some reason....

FFVII did it for me, MAJOR plot twist with Aerith's death, after which you just wanna get that sumb***h that killed her.

FFVIII and IX were alright.

FFX is just lackluster.

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

edit:never mind

Edited September 27, 2003 by SkullLeaderVF-X

[JB0]

One thing I don't get. Some ppl here are clearly RPG elitist, and thats quite obvious. They clearly bash FF7s story. But if they were really RPG elitist.... they would realize that odd numbered FFs always concentrate of game system while even numbered FFs concentrate on story and character.

That rule is rough at best. It doesn't really hold up to any serious examination.

And there is a diffrence between minimal writing and bad writing.

Lets look at them all, shall we?

FFI: the first FF. Lets give it a break, it had a decent story for its time and absolutly no character development. Heck, none of the character had a personality. What was the focus point? The job system.

Since character class is only selectable at game start, it damn well BETTER NOT focus on the job system, because that would mean the entire focus of the game was party creation.

FFII: each character was unique, and the story was fairly entertaining, to say the least. What about game system? Meh... nothing particularly special that would be worth mentioning.

What makes the game sytem unique: No experience levels or character classes.

Stats operate on the use it or lose it principle.

You use swords, your muscles get big, your brains get little.

You lob lighting, your IQ goes up, your strength goes down.

Events in battle effect every stat except luck.

In my opinion it's the most intricate stat engine to date in ANY RPG, requiring one to actually THINK about their actions and what they'd do to character growth.

I don't recall if it was this game or FF3 that introduced front and back ranks.

FFIII: once again, it featured shallow, featureless characters (Onion kid anyone?), and run of the mill plot. The Job system!! With 30 or so Job classes, the main point of this game was to play as a Dark Knight, or Viking.... some of the Job classes that would never be available again in any other game.

And again you latch onto a relatively trivial point.

A far mroe signifigant change was the addition of retargeting from dead monsters. This "feature" served to strip some 95% of the strategy from battles, and is a large part of why I prefer the first 2 games over ALL successive games as far as gameplay goes.

FFVI: Character and story to die for. Game system? Each character had its own class, and each of them learned spells as they grew. A system that, back then, had already been massed produced.

You mean IV.

And the addition of real-time battles was the big revolutionary feature. Battle was no longer turn-based.

That was a BIG deal.

FFV: While the characters were unique, and had development, they weren't all that great. The story was campy at best. It featured a down graded, yet deeper, job system, that featured only a few classes. Interesting system that only FF and Dragon Quest seem to have mastered.

Reason only FF and DQ mastered it: most RPGs refuse to touch it on the basis of it's a hideous bastardization of the concept of character class.

FFVI: Err.... I don't really know what Square was thinking with this one. Some of the character went through alot of development, while others were just too uninteresting. The story was fairly good. it first introduced selectable party members, and the magic system was.... err, a variation of the typical learn as you go. I consider this to be FFs heretic, though it featured the best RPG villian to date, the maniac Kefka.

Ghaleon would SO kick Kefka's ass.

FF6's magicite system would be further refined in FF7's materia system.

And both FF3 and 5 had, in essence, selectable parties. you just changed character class.

FF6 had you swapping characters to change class.

FFVII: Cloud was the only character to be really developed in here. The story was your typical "lets save the world". Was a little heavy on FMVs. As for a system, it featured the Materia system, which is by far the best magic system to grace a FF game or any RPG. It introduced the Limit break system, that would be copied in every other RPG to come out after FFVII. And as last merit.... Sephiroth is the second best vilian in any RPG, and the first futuristic FF..

Personally, I think Cloud had no real development. They just threw 4 or 5 backstories out and left it to the player to pick one. Any argument to the contrary invariably makes critical failings by choosing scenes that are "true" scenes, with no supporting evidence. The only person that could really know what's going on is Cloud, and his head is so f'ed up that nothing he says can be taken as true.

I'd give most character development to Barret.

This being ACTUAL development instead of throwing out a new story at random to be discredited at a later date.

It WOULD'VE gone to Cait Sith, for going froma backstabing traitor that blackmailed his way onto the team to soemone who would sacrifice his life to protect the black materia, had he not been a remote-control toy and therefore immune to the dangers.

Limit breaks were a variation of FF6's desperation attacks, where a severely injured(stooped over) character would occasionally bust out a hyper-move when they attacked.

The materia system was an interesting concept, but needed refinement.

The removal of a proper equip screen was a slap in the face.

And FF7 had a hell of a lot more story than any of the previous games.

FFVIII: Fairly good characters, each recieved a fairly good amount of development. Story was its major achievement. Most player forced themselves to play this game because the story was that good.

Beg pard? Most people I know hate the game because the story is steaming crap.

I know it's why I quit playing. I couldn't stand to read one more line of badly-written, hopelssly-cliche'd text.

As for magic system... the junction system was the worst idea Square could have come up with. Its completly unbalanced and annoying.

Interesting concept,. poor execution.

It introduced overly long summons (I will never call that a merit).

Nooooo, FF7 did that.

FOr its merit.... Ragnarok is the best "airship" to ever grace FF.

If it's not a silly-looking boat with propellers sticking out of hte deck, I don't want it.

FFIX: ... The story was so-so.

Better than the previous 2 outings.

The game system was another variation of the learn as you go system, but with a twist, you really had to spend time learning those skills.

And the equip screen returned! YAY!

FFX:

I bow out, not having a PS2 and having no interest in FFX.

FF Tactics: Had everything perfect. No need to discuss it.

Not a true FF.

If you count Tactics, you have to count Chocobo Racing too. And good luck there.

Then theres FF11.... and for now, I bet Square will break the tradition of the odd=system even=story tradition. I really think they should have named it FF Online.

Square broke that "pattern" a long time ago. I'd say 5 was the last to really fit it, and that's a stretch, as FF2 had a very heavy game system.

See? Give FF7 a break. The main attraction of FF7 was its system. And the so called "RPG Elitists" should've known that.

If a game has a plot, and this plot is forced to your attention at every opportunity, a bad plot becomes a valid criticism.

FF7 refused to let you ignore the story. Therefore, a criticism of it is relevant.

P.S. To those who had the patience to read all this BS.... please feel free to add or correct.

No problem.

[Max Jenius]

Who are you to say what was a "true" FF?

As far as the games go, people like what they like. Same goes for the opposite.