Top 10 Pilots

[JM2000]

Who would the top 10 pilots be? They would be ranked by showing how much skill they have.

[azrael]

Who would the top 10 pilots be? They would be ranked by showing how much skill they have.

313773[/snapback]

Let the pissing match begin.....

[Mr March]

This is ever the heated topic. It's always a bitter fan debate between Max, Isamu, and Roy every time it starts

Edited July 25, 2005 by Mr March

[grss1982]

Who would the top 10 pilots be? They would be ranked by showing how much skill they have.

313773[/snapback]

Let the pissing match begin.....

313777[/snapback]

Pissing contest aside. from the top of my head, here's my list:

1. Roy Fokker

2. Max Jenius

3. Millia Jenius

4. DD Ivanov

5. Nora Polyansky (psychotic bitch all the way)

6. Isamu Alva Dyson

7. Hikaru Ichijyo (check spelling)

8. Kamjin (kind a sadistic though [HINT: BACKSTABBER ])

9. Guld Goa Bowman (good with his YF-21 only )

10. Shin Kudo (if he comes back and trains harder that is )

and remeber this is just my worth.

Edited July 25, 2005 by grss1982

[grss1982]

sorry double post!!

Edited July 25, 2005 by grss1982

[JB0]

Who would the top 10 pilots be? They would be ranked by showing how much skill they have.

313773[/snapback]

Let the pissing match begin.....

313777[/snapback]

Pissing contest aside. from the top of my head, here's my list:

1. Roy Fokker

2. Max Jenius

3. Millia Jenius

4. DD Ivanov

5. Nora Polyansky (psychotic bitch all the way)

6. Isamu Alva Dyson

7. Hikaru Ichijyo (check spelling)

8. Kamjin (kind a sadistic though [HINT: BACKSTABBER ])

9. Guld Goa Bowman (good with his YF-21 only )

10. Shin Kudo (if he comes back and trains harder that is )

and remeber this is just my worth.

313791[/snapback]

WTF?

How is Guld only good with the YF-21?

And how does he rate below Isamu anyways?

[grss1982]

WTF?

How is Guld only good with the YF-21?

And how does he rate below Isamu anyways?

to JBO: Please be guided that this is only my opinnion.

But to answer ur question, I rated Guld that way because we never see him in the series pilot anything else other than the yf-21. thats why i think isamu has an edge over him.

To DeathHammer: totally agree with you on that argument about surviving the Zentraedi fleet. I actually forgot to include that survival factor as one my criteria for my list of top 10 best pilots.

Edited July 25, 2005 by grss1982

[izzyfcuk]

I'll say it's a matter of pilot era

Roy was te best at his time..

Hikaru? an upcoming..newbie..after roy's death..he took over..

And for MAX? i'll say he surpasses Hikaru..not only is he good..he's flamboyant too.

[kanedaestes]

I would have to say max, although roy was good, he had the expierence, he was also shot down. Isamu and guld were both excellent but u really don't see much of their combat skills when fighting more than one opponent, yeah u see isamu's, but not enough. Millia was great, and was born for war and was the top in her fleet, but was none the less defeated by max, and max has proven many times over his skills when going against multiple oppenents, as well as survival since he also survived the great war like millia, and his skills were even recognized by roy himself. It's max all the way, and mind u I'm a big isamu fan, but those are the facts friends

[myk]

Max? Isamu? Roy? Bah...Sharon Apple with the Ghost X-9 at her beckoning would take down every pilot that has been mentioned...

-No one said that AI could not be considered a piloting entity!

Edited July 25, 2005 by myk

[kanedaestes]

He does have a point, but then that takes the fun out of it

[kanedaestes]

Oh, and let's not forget basara . Before u boo we are asked to name the best pilots, and even though he doesn't fight, he was a damn good pilot seeing as how he was never shot down, or even hit, he flew circles around almost everyone

[macplus]

IMHO we should ask wich one was the worst pilot since in every series is most likely that the main character is an awesome pilot, so here's my list of crappy pilots who should be out of the sky 'cause they suck:

In no particular order:

+Kakizaki

+Shinn

+Basara

+Mylene

+Misa (in DYRL she was flying the Rabitt shuttle and tried to fly a Valk, she was bad so don't coplain)

+the other stupid clown force member (Ray???)

+Most zentradi pilots were bad

+99.9% of the Macross 7 pilots were pussies with no flying talent at all

+Roy in the armored VF-0 in M0, gotta admit that he was bad!! just kidding! hehehe

[Roy Focker]

Didn't I create a poll for this specific question?

I think the winner of that poll was a toss up between Isamu, Max and Roy. Those are the favorites of Macross World but favorites doesn't mean actual best. Kawamori was credited in saying that at the moment of his death Guld was the best pilot. If you look at the animation it's really a toss up a lot of fights (Isamu vs Guld, Max vs Milia) end in a draw or one pilot winning by a small margin.

Think about it can you recall any Macross duel between the super ace pilots that ended with one side the clear victor? In Macross Zero we wanted a final showdown between D.D./Roy and Shin/Nora. What did we get? The two Anti-UN pilots were killed by Alpo..whatchamacalit.

[U.N.N.GhostRider303 VF-0]

I haven't posted in god knows how long but here's my opinion

1. Max (he's got insane skills)

2. Isamu (mainly because he is insane)

3. Guld (who happens to be more insane than the others but he did turn himself

inside out)

4. DD (he was Focker's teacher after all)

5. Roy (only one guy in Macross history that can still kick ass while drunk, and not

barf in his oxygen mask)

6. Hikaru ( he did fly into a mother ship by himself and kill a whole bunch of stuff)

7. Nora

8.Shin (cause he did shoot down a ton of guys in the F-14 so that sorta counts)

9. Basara (you try flying, or driving for that matter while singing your little heart

out, while playing guitar. Its not easy)

10. The guy in Macross II that flies Metal Siren (just to piss everyone off)

Edited July 25, 2005 by U.N.N.GhostRider303 VF-0

[phatslappy]

1. Iceman

2. Viper

3. Maverick

4. Jester

5. Hollywood

6. Slider

7. Goose

8. Merlin

9. Wolfman

10. Cougar

Cougar gets last cuz he was top, but then he lost his edge. Oh... .wrong show...

Edited July 25, 2005 by phatslappy

[JB0]

WTF?

How is Guld only good with the YF-21?

And how does he rate below Isamu anyways?

to JBO: Please be guided that this is only my opinnion. 

But to answer ur question, I rated Guld that way because we never see him in the series pilot anything else other than the yf-21. thats why i think isamu has an edge over him.

But that's his plane(and Max and Milla's later).

He's clearly already established as a skilled pilot, or he wouldn't be on the project flying against Isamu, as it wouldn't be a fair trial to have one darn good(albeit crazy and unpredictable) pilot and one average one. You put the best you can find in both planes(optimally, you would have the same guy in both planes to completely remove one variable, but that's not possible real-world), and see which performs better.

[Zentrandude]

1. sharon

2. max

3. millia/that blonde chick from fleet of strongest woman/nora

4. roy/basara/dd

5. guld/Misa (misa shot down hikaru and she piloted nicely the dedalus through a ship to fire missiles at hikaru )/gamlin/ Guravil (think thats his name the flying monkey guy)

6. hikaru/that red head chick from dynamite 7/Mylene

7. isamu/ray

8. Kamijun/shin

10. any cannon fodder alive after one misson

Edited July 25, 2005 by Zentrandude

[JB0]

Oh yeah... are we sure Sharon was piloting the Ghost?

She may have just deployed it under orders to defend the Macross.

[Penguin]

Max? Isamu? Roy? Bah...Sharon Apple with the Ghost X-9 at her beckoning would take down every pilot that has been mentioned...

-No one said that AI could not be considered a piloting entity!

313903[/snapback]

Yeah... but is it really piloting skill, or just man over machine... i.e. no soft squishy human to fall victim to insane g forces? Would Sharon or the Ghost AI beat the human pilots if they were all in Sopwith Camels instead of a machine custom-designed to take advantage of an automated pilot?

[JB0]

Max? Isamu? Roy? Bah...Sharon Apple with the Ghost X-9 at her beckoning would take down every pilot that has been mentioned...

-No one said that AI could not be considered a piloting entity!

313903[/snapback]

Yeah... but is it really piloting skill, or just man over machine... i.e. no soft squishy human to fall victim to insane g forces? Would Sharon or the Ghost AI beat the human pilots if they were all in Sopwith Camels instead of a machine custom-designed to take advantage of an automated pilot?

314085[/snapback]

Hypothetically, the computer should have a higher maximum.

Better "eyes" and the precision accuracy that only a machine can get.

Though given Sharon was never intended as a combat machine, she quite likely sucks at it.

Edited July 26, 2005 by JB0

[fernarias]

I don't think Basara is a good pilot, the only reason he didn't get shot down is because no one wanted to come near him. His repulsion quotent is pretty high. I know I couldn't watch more than five minutes at a time, which meant it took forever to finish M7.

F.

[Wes]

I don't see the point in picking a "best" pilot. All that really matters is getting the job done and living to tell about it. I mean, yes, at the time Max was better than most everyone, but if his plane was in the exact spot as Kakizaki's when the Macross's shield when haywire he would have been just as dead. And speakning of Kakizaki, he was probably the closest to "veteran" status than any other Brownie pilot ever was. That has to count for something, , but even he didn't come out alive.

Sure, talking about the "best" is convient when on a 1-on-1 dogfight situation, but how often does that happen? Often the one who survives is the one at the right place at the right time with the right equipment and the right attitude. Skill is also a nice extra. It's like Solomon said, "The race doesn't always go to the fastest, the fight not always to the strongest."

[bigkid24]

I know Max beat her at a video game and in the city battle, but I still have to go with Millia.

313857[/snapback]

Max, also beat her in DYRL where she was bloodied and he left his valk unscathed.

Oh, and let's not forget basara . Before u boo we are asked to name the best pilots, and even though he doesn't fight, he was a damn good pilot seeing as how he was never shot down, or even hit, he flew circles around almost everyone

313931[/snapback]

I agree Basara needs to be in the mix even if he is annoying. I don't think he's the best but he deserves some attention. Oh, but he did get hit in fights.

3. millia/that blonde chick from fleet of strongest woman/nora

314015[/snapback]

Another good mention even though we don't get to see Chlore kick a lot of ass Milia says that they were rivals and always competing for kills.

Ultimately I think it does come down to the big three of Roy, Max, and Isamu. The way I see it the basketball equivalent of these pilots would be:

Roy - Magic Johnson (great pilot AND leader, takes care of everyone)

Max - Air Jordan (flashy and will get his kills, just let him go do his thing)

Isamu - Allan Iverson (gets his kills no matter what even if it pisses everyone off)

They are all great pilot/players in their own way but given their playing styles who would you want on your team? So yeah, I think it's all a matter of opinion.

[JB0]

I mean, yes, at the time Max was better than most everyone, but if his plane was in the exact spot as Kakizaki's when the Macross's shield when haywire  he would have been just as dead. 

Actually, if you watch, Max, Hikaru, and Kakizaki are all pretty much the same distance at the start. Kakizaki just shifts into fighter mode slower than the others, making him further behind at the end.

I know Max beat her at a video game and in the city battle, but I still have to go with Millia.

313857[/snapback]

Max, also beat her in DYRL where she was bloodied and he left his valk unscathed.

To be fair, he's a much smaller target. Basicall any hit in a QRau's upper body hits the pilot. You've got to land a shot into the "breatbone" on a VF-1 battroid.

And Millia landed hits to either side of the heatshield in that battle. Had Max been a zentran, he would've been as dead as Kakizaki(HEADSHOT!).

[KingNor]

Hmmm....

I gotta say, I think in order to be considered the 'best' pilot, you have to have survived.

Roy was probably the best pilot on the SDF Macross before Max came along, but he got killed so on one day, someone was 'better' Even if it was bad luck, I still think survival has gotta be the first benchmark of the best combat pilots. I know some guys might say thats not fair because bad luck has nothing to do with pure talent or skill ,but I figure bad luck and good luck is a factor for all the pilots no matter what, so it all washes out at the end.

I just say Macross Zero recently and boy did Roy kick ass all over the place. Watching him in Macross Zero and watching him die with such lackluster in SDF Macross is like watching the lightsaber fight with Darth Maul then watching old Alec Guiness and David Prowse waving flashlights at each other in A New Hope.

314433[/snapback]

well thats not really the way combat works. getting killed in combat is random. roy might have been killed by shots not even intended for him. hell what if he had been killed by micro meteorites punching through his plane?

imagine if you're a really good driver, and one day you're driving along and a cement truck falls off a bridge and crushes you in your car. does that really have any say on what level your driving skills are? i would say no.

[Prime]

WTF?

How is Guld only good with the YF-21?

And how does he rate below Isamu anyways?

Indeed. Doesn't he have to be a pretty kick ass just to be considered for being a test pilot, let alone for such an important project?

[KingNor]

i only saw one person do this:

do a nose dive,

blow their canopy

reach out and grab a freefalling person, and help them seat themselves.

fall out of the plane

jump back in

resecure the canopy

look back and say "ooh, pretty girl"

teh winz 4 hickeroo!

[Ladic]

I think roy was the best closely followed by max

[Prime]

i only saw one person do this:

do a nose dive,

blow their canopy

reach out and grab a freefalling person, and help them seat themselves.

fall out of the plane

jump back in

resecure the canopy

look back and say "ooh, pretty girl"

teh winz 4 hickeroo!

314704[/snapback]

If he was good he wouldn't of had his Valk's arm blown off in the first place.

[Agent ONE]

In reality, I take the title for spots 1-10. You guys shoulda seen me pwn at starFox.

[treatment]

heh! I will have to differ with my list:

top to bottom from the anime:

• DD Ivanov -- Roy really couldn't touch him.
  Roy Focker -- mad skillz. especially when drunk.
  Shin Kudo -- rookie with less time/more reluctant to train in the new VF-0 series, particularly in battroid and gerwalk modes. He did do the Cobra-maneuver and pretty much pwn3d Nora, who was more expert than him and did the same Cobra, but none of Shin's tactic.
  Isamu Dyson -- Excellent pilot. Made the YF-19 better than the superior YF-21 all because of his skills.
  Hikaru -- Fought Kamjin to a standstill. Went full-out kamikaze against the Bodolza fleet, survived and still managed to rescue Misa with his severely-wrecked Super-VF-1S in the Bodolza-battle (m-tv)
  Max -- loner and excellent on one-on-one battles, but not a team-player. Couldn't contain nor stop Kamjin's jacking of the enlargement-unit. Ran out of "bullets" in M7's final battle and was surrounded, iirc.
  Milia -- excellent against Zentrans, but totally got pwn3d by Max.
  Nora -- pretty good human pilot, but outdone by a rookie named Shin.
  Guld -- good Zentran pilot, but was outclassed and outpiloted by Isamu even tho he's got the superior YF-21. Had to go kamikaze against the Ghost-X9.
  Nexx (mII) -- Metal Siren's excellent pilot. Pretty good, but he's in an alternate-universe.
  and the 11th on my list is:
  Sylvie (mII) -- Pretty good VF-IISS pilot. Only Nexx is better than her in the alternate-universe.
  

Edited August 2, 2005 by treatment

[JB0]

heh! I will have to differ with my list:

Guld -- good Zentran pilot, but was outclassed and outpiloted by Isamu even tho he's got the superior YF-21. Had to go kamikaze against the Ghost-X9.

With all due respect, Isamu never even TOUCHED the Ghost.

And Guld managed to kamikaze the ghost while his organs were being turned to jello by the intense g-forces of matching the maneuvers of a machine with no fleshy bits to damage.

Just maintaining focus under those conditions would be near-impossible, much less fighting effectively. Guld managed to do both.

As far as outlcassed and outpiloted...

The way I recall things Guld was winning when they called a truce on Earth.

[treatment]

heh! I will have to differ with my list:

Guld -- good Zentran pilot, but was outclassed and outpiloted by Isamu even tho he's got the superior YF-21. Had to go kamikaze against the Ghost-X9.

With all due respect, Isamu never even TOUCHED the Ghost.

In other words, the Ghost didn't hit Isamu at all.

And Guld managed to kamikaze the ghost while his organs were being turned to jello by the intense g-forces of matching the maneuvers of a machine with no fleshy bits to damage.

Just maintaining focus under those conditions would be near-impossible, much less fighting effectively. Guld managed to do both.

That's because Guld was just the designer of the YF-21, but he does not have proper combat experience/tactics like Isamu with heavy enemy engagement. Guld just wasn't military enough.

As far as outlcassed and outpiloted...

The way I recall things Guld was winning when they called a truce on Earth.

316680[/snapback]

lol! That's three strikes in a row to try to re-write what happened.

Let's recap the final duel-scenes:

- Guld missed with his missile-barrage. Completely missed.

- Guld lost focus and control by thinking and being convinced that he got Isamu and he wallowed in self-pity. Bad move since Isamu was still alive.

- Isamu was fully in control of the situation and let Guld wallow. Guld's done for if Isamu wanted Guld dead then and there since Guld didn't know where Isamu's status or location was.

That's why and how Isamu was the better pilot than Guld.

[JB0]

heh! I will have to differ with my list:

Guld -- good Zentran pilot, but was outclassed and outpiloted by Isamu even tho he's got the superior YF-21. Had to go kamikaze against the Ghost-X9.

With all due respect, Isamu never even TOUCHED the Ghost.

In other words, the Ghost didn't hit Isamu at all.

The Ghost didn't hit EITHER of them.

Guld, however, took off after the Ghost as soon as it made itself known, because in his estimation there was no way for Isamu to win.

An accurate estimation as regardless of skill, Isamu wouldn't have been able to even manipulate his controls while doing the high-G maneuvers needed to keep up with the Ghost. Or even see the Ghost at all after his eyeballs popped.

...

Actually, given the maneuvers that were being pulled, I suspect Isamu would have blacked out well before it became an issue.

Only reason I can think of that Guld DIDN'T is that the zentradi are engineered to have higher G tolerances.

So that's 2 non-skill reasons that Guld and Guld alone could beat the Ghost(BCS and superior genetics).

Well... any zentradi or half-zentradi pilot in the BCS-equipped YF-21 that hadn't been brainwashed by Sharon could beat the Ghost. But there was only the one plane, and Guld had it.

And Guld managed to kamikaze the ghost while his organs were being turned to jello by the intense g-forces of matching the maneuvers of a machine with no fleshy bits to damage.

Just maintaining focus under those conditions would be near-impossible, much less fighting effectively. Guld managed to do both.

That's because Guld was just the designer of the YF-21, but he does not have proper combat experience/tactics like Isamu with heavy enemy engagement.  Guld just wasn't military enough.

A. You've just said "Project Supernova was rigged to make the YF-19 win." There is no way whatsoever that Guld EVER would have gotten the job as a test pilot for the next-gen combat plane had he NOT been a pilot of comparable skill to Isamu.

Well, more accurately, Isamu wouldn't have been chosen had he not been of comparable skill, because Guld was there first.

This was intended to be a scientific test with as few variables as possible. That means closely matched pilot skill levels.

B. How does the ability to concentrate while your body is LITERALLY tearing itself apart prove that you aren't a skilled combat pilot?

As far as outlcassed and outpiloted...

The way I recall things Guld was winning when they called a truce on Earth.

lol!  That's three strikes in a row to try to re-write what happened.

This is the only statement that could remotely be construed that way.

Let's recap the final duel-scenes:

- Guld missed with his missile-barrage. Completely missed.

Only because Isamu killed his engines while deploying flares. Otherwise he would have been 17 kinds of dead.

This will be important momentarily.

- Guld lost focus and control by thinking and being convinced that he got Isamu and he wallowed in self-pity. Bad move since Isamu was still alive.

Guld remembered something he had blocked, and realized he sucked as a person.

He's allowed some self-pity.

Note that he never took any part of his plane offline. Sensors were still running, and he was still at full capacity. Well, as full as he could be with no missiles and probably no bullets.

- Isamu was fully in control of the situation and let Guld wallow. Guld's done for if Isamu wanted Guld dead then and there since Guld didn't know where Isamu's status or location was.

A. The YF-21 sensors were wired directly into Guld's mind. As soon as anything showed up on them, he'd see it just as if he was staring straight at it. And it's implied that the YF-21 has 360-degree sensor coverage. Guld had an unparalleled iew of the sky.

B. Isamu's YF-19 was OFF. He had no engines, no thrusters, no transformation capability. As soon as he brought it online, he'd be lit up like a christmas tree for Guld. And(assuming Guld still wanted to waste him) would be blown away before his systems were back online.

That's why and how Isamu was the better pilot than Guld.

   

Because Isamu turns his plane off in mid-dogfight, and Guld had mental problems.

Right.

Edited August 3, 2005 by JB0