Orbiter Space Flight Sim and Macross

[JGrizzle]

I have been using orbiter flight simulator alot lately ( a free space flight sim that you can find over at Orbiter Space Flight Sim )

Well it's quite realistic...to the point that everything is to scale...and you can even fly to all of the planets, you can even create detailed models of anything with accurate flight controls...or not hehe and fly them around tons of fun really. I was looking on the forums and this guy attempted to create the SDF-1

I was thinking it would be awesome to create a working SDF-1...transformable and so on O.o. I am not one on modeling and such but I can help with some number crunching and help with orbiter...anyone here interested in such a thing?

[Winter Tw Wolf]

Hey JG. I'm a fan of Orbiter too...even though most of my flights end with a large smoking crater in the middle of the runway...and was toying with the idea of modeling the SDF-1 or an Oberth myself.

I've got Anim8or and Milkshape on my system. I've not used anim8or before, and its been forever since I last used Milkshape and I'm not too good with either...but I'm going to try and model a VF-1 for Orbiter before I attempt anything the size of the SDF-1

With that said, I'd like to help you with this Orbiter mod in whatever way I can

[JGrizzle]

haha holy moly I was starting to lose hope on a response I can try to get some numbers for the sdf-1...well how to make it fly correctly in orbiter for it's size and stuff...and we can see what all we need to pull together...heck we might could build macross island and so on hehe reach for the stars ya know

[Winter Tw Wolf]

haha holy moly I was starting to lose hope on a response  I can try to get some numbers for the sdf-1...well how to make it fly correctly in orbiter for it's size and stuff...and we can see what all we need to pull together...heck we might could build macross island and so on hehe reach for the stars ya know 

314055[/snapback]

Funny you mention numbers for the SDF-1....I made a thread asking about the feasability of a vessel of such size and math and the game engine CAN do it...however there was mention that the length and size of the hull could cause some glitches or even a crash.

No matter. I'm going to try and find a fix for Milkshape so I can still use it ( ) and try to find my half finished VF-1A and find a way to put it in Orbiter. Start small, eh?

Build Macross Island? While a really killer idea, I think it would be pretty poly heavy, and cause issues with older machines. I was thinking of when the add-on is started, the SDF-1 is floating in the ocean in Storm Attacker mode in ep. 15 I think. Might be a little easier on machines that don't have the latest 3-D hardware.

[JGrizzle]

haha holy moly I was starting to lose hope on a response  I can try to get some numbers for the sdf-1...well how to make it fly correctly in orbiter for it's size and stuff...and we can see what all we need to pull together...heck we might could build macross island and so on hehe reach for the stars ya know 

314055[/snapback]

Funny you mention numbers for the SDF-1....I made a thread asking about the feasability of a vessel of such size and math and the game engine CAN do it...however there was mention that the length and size of the hull could cause some glitches or even a crash.

No matter. I'm going to try and find a fix for Milkshape so I can still use it ( ) and try to find my half finished VF-1A and find a way to put it in Orbiter. Start small, eh?

Build Macross Island? While a really killer idea, I think it would be pretty poly heavy, and cause issues with older machines. I was thinking of when the add-on is started, the SDF-1 is floating in the ocean in Storm Attacker mode in ep. 15 I think. Might be a little easier on machines that don't have the latest 3-D hardware.

314272[/snapback]

I think that would be a good idea...and you are right about Macross island being to polly heavy...hmm maybe we can find away around that but I doubt it. Well I am gonna start playing around and seeing what I can pull up I guess just make this the official thread with any information that we all can pull...I need to find some exact numbers and such....on each of the platforms and so on so we can make it look accurate and to scale.

[JGrizzle]

Well I there is somebody working on this for orbiter, Sc-27 Stargoose

I finally got my computer back together so I think I might doing my research for the Macross again.

[Lindem Herz]

Updated link, the other forum is dead. Sc-27 Stargoose

And I'd love to make a recreation of the first three episodes of the series so hurry up with that Macross!

[evirus]

hmmm interesting, cant wait to see wneh someone makes valk with and without a fast pack

[vsim]

hmmm interesting, cant wait to see wneh someone makes valk with and without a fast pack

383068[/snapback]

Already been working on it for a few years now in my spare time:

http://valkyrie.sourceforge.net

Go to Source code on the left, then follow download.

The current download is a raw VF-1 with a control system that still needs work (new version coming in the next few months I hope!). So if ya fly it, it's not hard to flip yourself around entirely.

It's not much yet, but orbital will eventually happen. Orbital is actually a lot easier than atmospheric flight, lol. And sorry, no it doesn't transform yet, have to get fighter working, then come Gerwalk, then the one that'll cause real problems, battloid .

BTW, if there are any pilots out there who wanna play test pilot, email me on the site. I work on flight simulators for a living, but I only have but so much time to practicing flying there, hehe.

Edited March 24, 2006 by vsim

[Samis]

hmmm interesting, cant wait to see wneh someone makes valk with and without a fast pack

383068[/snapback]

Already been working on it for a few years now in my spare time:

http://valkyrie.sourceforge.net

Go to Source code on the left, then follow download.

The current download is a raw VF-1 with a control system that still needs work (new version coming in the next few months I hope!). So if ya fly it, it's not hard to flip yourself around entirely.

It's not much yet, but orbital will eventually happen. Orbital is actually a lot easier than atmospheric flight, lol. And sorry, no it doesn't transform yet, have to get fighter working, then come Gerwalk, then the one that'll cause real problems, battloid .

BTW, if there are any pilots out there who wanna play test pilot, email me on the site. I work on flight simulators for a living, but I only have but so much time to practicing flying there, hehe.

383815[/snapback]

Holy crap, thats still alive?

[vsim]

hmmm interesting, cant wait to see wneh someone makes valk with and without a fast pack

383068[/snapback]

Already been working on it for a few years now in my spare time:

http://valkyrie.sourceforge.net

Go to Source code on the left, then follow download.

The current download is a raw VF-1 with a control system that still needs work (new version coming in the next few months I hope!). So if ya fly it, it's not hard to flip yourself around entirely.

It's not much yet, but orbital will eventually happen. Orbital is actually a lot easier than atmospheric flight, lol. And sorry, no it doesn't transform yet, have to get fighter working, then come Gerwalk, then the one that'll cause real problems, battloid .

BTW, if there are any pilots out there who wanna play test pilot, email me on the site. I work on flight simulators for a living, but I only have but so much time to practicing flying there, hehe.

383815[/snapback]

Holy crap, thats still alive?

383831[/snapback]

lol, yes, it'll never die. I started the project, and I will never let it die, even if I'm the only one working on it ....which is pretty much the case right now, lol.

[evirus]

hmmm interesting, cant wait to see wneh someone makes valk with and without a fast pack

383068[/snapback]

Already been working on it for a few years now in my spare time:

http://valkyrie.sourceforge.net

Go to Source code on the left, then follow download.

The current download is a raw VF-1 with a control system that still needs work (new version coming in the next few months I hope!). So if ya fly it, it's not hard to flip yourself around entirely.

It's not much yet, but orbital will eventually happen. Orbital is actually a lot easier than atmospheric flight, lol. And sorry, no it doesn't transform yet, have to get fighter working, then come Gerwalk, then the one that'll cause real problems, battloid .

BTW, if there are any pilots out there who wanna play test pilot, email me on the site. I work on flight simulators for a living, but I only have but so much time to practicing flying there, hehe.

383815[/snapback]

Holy crap, thats still alive?

383831[/snapback]

lol, yes, it'll never die. I started the project, and I will never let it die, even if I'm the only one working on it ....which is pretty much the case right now, lol.

384025[/snapback]

[AncientAngel]

I know what you mean by the only one working on a project. I started one for Starshatter game engine. Sofar its the only game engine that I can mod that doesn't have issues with the Size of Macross / Mospeada stuff.

Granted this shot was taken awhile ago and about one total system crash due to a family member doing something with my system. Anyways needless to say I got the models backed up but I haven't had the urge to pick it back up again since then.

Sad thing is I was about to put the SDF-1 in game before all this happend.

[vsim]

I know what you mean by the only one working on a project.  I started one for Starshatter game engine. Sofar its the only game engine that I can mod that doesn't have issues with the Size of Macross / Mospeada stuff.

Nice picts! I've done all my work on the dynamics side of the house, so I'm working the realism side, but that means I've got no pretty graphics, lol. I calculate positions for all of the control surfaces on the VF1 (thrust vectoring, spoilers, slats, rudder, flaps, speed brake), but have no pretty graphics to drive yet, hehe.

And yes, most game engines are designed with "Quake" type stuff in mind, i.e. lots of detail close in, but no real long distance field of view.

Currently, I'm using OpenSceneGraph, which works well at the moment. I at least managed to figure out how to draw a checkerboard for the ground, lol.

Edited March 29, 2006 by vsim

[AncientAngel]

Yeah my goal at the time with the project was to try to give the same impression of detail in relation to its size. So the ammout of detail would appear to be about the same if you where either in a fighter or at the helm of one the of bigger ships.

That way when those little fighters start skimming off the hulls of the capital ships they have something to look at.

And man would it be nice to be able to program complete flight dynamics of these ships into a game engine. At best with Starshatter you have some controll over that but not down to the slats, flaps and rudder control.

[vsim]

Yeah my goal at the time with the project was to try to give the same impression of detail in relation to its size. So the ammout of detail would appear to be about the same if you where either in a fighter or at the helm of one the of bigger ships.

That way when those little fighters start skimming off the hulls of the capital ships they have something to look at.

And man would it be nice to be able to program complete flight dynamics of these ships into a game engine. At best with Starshatter you have some controll over that but not down to the slats, flaps and rudder control.

385169[/snapback]

Well, what I'm doing is too complicated to a degrees. It's more complicated than it needs to be for a game, but ...I like a challenge . And once I figure out one of the vehicles, the other will reuse a lot of the same algorihms, so they will go a lot faster.

And in space, all of those control surfaces are useless except the thrust vectoring.

[SkyDancer]

Why don’t you try using the Third Wire Strike Fighters engine it is totally editable and they fully support freeware creations.

The engine can even support transformations multiple gunners and such. Not too long ago someone built a harrier jump jet that could change throttle direction and fold wings mid flight (its fun taking of and landing in VTOL). You can also make and drive land cars and it already supports multiple and scatter fire missiles and editable cockpit huds etc. Best of all you could test your creations against legitimate aircraft and its fully online multiplayer supported.

Well thats my plug for Strike Fighters cause it owns all the other flight sims thanks to being totaly open ended and not closed up like the microsft games.

[JGrizzle]

Insanity is what I should call my work on the sdf-1. Making the thing fly is one thing...but this thing is huge for something that flys. I am still working on it but I am just trying to get the flight model correct I do not want a fake half functional ship.

[vsim]

I hadn't heard of that one before, but the main reason everyone pretty much makes their own is because none of them support everything that everyone wants to do, or implements it badly. The game engine and equations of motion that all of them are based on are pretty easy and can be implemented in a matter of hours. I'll still look into it though simply cause I've never seen it before , so thanks for the suggestion.

Most of the current flight sim engines are really designed for atmospheric flight only, and make assumptions about the size of the world you want to fly around in. i.e. if they decide that coordinates in the simulation are in meters, or feet, there is no way that you are going to be able to have a large scale sim (can't fit much of the solar system at all in meter precision at double precision values).

I've had many people ask why aren't you using Flight Gear, or X-planes, or this new one that I haven't heard of , and it just always turns out that it's not worth the headache. Especially when doing a space/atmosphere type simulation where you might not know until you've invested hundreds of hours integrating with someone elses flight sim that..oh...it has an inherent design feature that totally prevents me from doing xxx. Really, the biggest obstruction to me getting done is my own insistence on it being as realistic as possible, hehe. That and getting graphics. The multiplayer code is easy to implement a first cut at, but when you want to start worrying about passing model ownership around, so that, for instance, if you are the radar officer in the backseat of a Elintseeker, and the pilot goes link dead...someones gotta keep doing calculations for that aircraft, it can't just stop in mid air, so control has to be handed to either the other person in the craft, or to the main host. Now that'll be pretty hard, lol.

Anyway, back to recoding my FF2001 engines

[vsim]

Insanity is what I should call my work on the sdf-1. Making the thing fly is one thing...but this thing is huge for something that flys. I am still working on it but I am just trying to get the flight model correct I do not want a fake half functional ship.

386591[/snapback]

What about pinpoint barriers, so we can all go out and buy trackballs

I'd love to help out with a SDF-1 model, but right now I'm pretty overoccupied with the VF-1 model, hehe. And I'd be no help at all with graphics, but I'd be glad to share notes/thoughts with ya, cause I do want to do a SDF-1 model later, but like you, I want it to be realistic

Edited April 2, 2006 by vsim

[SkyDancer]

I hadn't heard of that one before, but the main reason everyone pretty much makes their own is because none of them support everything that everyone wants to do, or implements it badly. The game engine and equations of motion that all of them are based on are pretty easy and can be implemented in a matter of hours. I'll still look into it though simply cause I've never seen it before  , so thanks for the suggestion.

Most of the current flight sim engines are really designed for atmospheric flight only, and make assumptions about the size of the world you want to fly around in. i.e. if they decide that coordinates in the simulation are in meters, or feet, there is no way that you are going to be able to have a large scale sim (can't fit much of the solar system at all in meter precision at double precision values).

I've had many people ask why aren't you using Flight Gear, or X-planes, or this new one that I haven't heard of  , and it just always turns out that it's not worth the headache. Especially when doing a space/atmosphere type simulation where you might not know until you've invested hundreds of hours integrating with someone elses flight sim that..oh...it has an inherent design feature that totally prevents me from doing xxx. Really, the biggest obstruction to me getting done is my own insistence on it being as realistic as possible, hehe.  That and getting graphics. The multiplayer code is easy to implement a first cut at, but when you want to start worrying about passing model ownership around, so that, for instance, if you are the radar officer in the backseat of a Elintseeker, and the pilot goes link dead...someones gotta keep doing calculations for that aircraft, it can't just stop in mid air, so control has to be handed to either the other person in the craft, or to the main host. Now that'll be pretty hard, lol.

Anyway, back to recoding my FF2001 engines 

386836[/snapback]

Yea problem is no one ever finishes, and truth be told you will have trouble getting any of those things to fly with realistic stats. The fact is it just ain’t possible. The thrust to mass ratio is just so out of whack and could you believe the amount of Gs m3 would pull. The pilot would be way dead even with a super pressurised cockpit. As for Strike Fighters I don’t think it has a ceiling height but you may run into trouble emulating 0 grav on that engine. I don’t think there were many crafts in the macross cannon anyway that could go straight from atmosphere to space and vice versa. Even the mecha in Macross plus had to shelter behind fallout so as not to burn up on re-entry. I don’t think you really need the riods having punch ups but it would be interesting if you had a set up like Heavy Gear etc.

I only suggested SF cause its extremely open ended and easy to pick up and start modding. You could practically start straight out of the box without any dev tools. Most of the hard stuff has already been worked out and it’s very capable when handling extreme stats such as the ones featured in macross, or things that transform and redirect thrust such as tomcats, harriers or helicopters.

None of the aircraft in the game really had these featurs but it supported them anyway. A couple of moddrs even made fully flyable helicopters which was odd for a jet fighter game.

IMO make sure you pay some attention to the cockpit hud. As long as things look clean there players wont be scrutinising so much over world models.

From memory there has only been one successful modders attempt at making a variable on commercial software and that was for Microsoft’s Flight Sim 98. It sucked a bit because it had no guns and just flew around like a stooge.

I’ve recently started making 3d models for a team here creating a HW2 Macross mod. This projects been running for literally years and the members have been super committed which inspired me to join up and help out.

No promises but if things go well and this HW2 mod gets completed while I’m still alive I might be interested in giving you a hand later, If you’re still cracking away that is!

[vsim]

Yea problem is no one ever finishes, and truth be told you will have trouble getting any of those things to fly with realistic stats. The fact is it just ain’t possible. The thrust to mass ratio is just so out of whack and could you believe the amount of Gs m3 would pull.

Trouble is my middle name . I do real aircraft/spacecraft sims for a living, and believe it or not, this is actually easier than real life because I don't have to worry about noisy sensor inputs and having to filter every data point that comes in. I'm doing this cause I love Macross and I have the know how....unfortunately time is always the issue...I can't even imagine how I'll find time when I have kids some day .

And I'm always looking for help, especially in the graphics department, my specialty is math, simulation and control systems, NOT graphics, lol. And I can guarantee that I'll still be cranking on this, unless something really bad happens. In fact, I'm hoping to have a much more reasonable version flying soon than version 0.1.0 that is up now. I had to rework the FF2001 engine because the thrust model I was using wasn't linear with throttle, and my control system really needs to get into the thrust loop so that I don't excite a phugoid mode due to loss of thrust during maneuvers (translation, need to keep aircraft from slowing down too much when you pull back on the stick, bad things happen, lol). I love this kind of stuff

Oh and JGrizzle, sorry for getting off topic .

[Lestat]

And I'm always looking for help, especially in the graphics department, my specialty is math, simulation and control systems, NOT graphics, lol. And I can guarantee that I'll still be cranking on this, unless something really bad happens. In fact, I'm hoping to have a much more reasonable version flying soon than version 0.1.0 that is up now.  I had to rework the FF2001 engine because the thrust model I was using wasn't linear with throttle, and my control system really needs to get into the thrust loop so that I don't excite a phugoid mode due to loss of thrust during maneuvers (translation, need to keep aircraft from slowing down too much when you pull back on the stick, bad things happen, lol). I love this kind of stuff 

You can probably use any of the models in the DYRL TC for HW2, if you contact the rest of the team. I can at least vouch for the SDF-1, but it's the DYRL version. Let me know if it's useful.

[evirus]

And I'm always looking for help, especially in the graphics department, my specialty is math, simulation and control systems, NOT graphics, lol. And I can guarantee that I'll still be cranking on this, unless something really bad happens. In fact, I'm hoping to have a much more reasonable version flying soon than version 0.1.0 that is up now.  I had to rework the FF2001 engine because the thrust model I was using wasn't linear with throttle, and my control system really needs to get into the thrust loop so that I don't excite a phugoid mode due to loss of thrust during maneuvers (translation, need to keep aircraft from slowing down too much when you pull back on the stick, bad things happen, lol). I love this kind of stuff 

You can probably use any of the models in the DYRL TC for HW2, if you contact the rest of the team. I can at least vouch for the SDF-1, but it's the DYRL version. Let me know if it's useful.

387541[/snapback]

how aboud the vf-1? im wondering if we could get the modes to work in orbiter,if anything there should be a way to jettison the fast packs