Hot Coffee anyone

[mikeszekely]

Such fuzz over something that is meant for mentalities AT LEAST 17 years old is really retarded (IMO anyways).

As I said before...

The game is rated M. An M-rating is supposed to tell parents, "if your child is under the age of 17, this game isn't appropriate for them." If you were one of those parents stupid/lazy/irresponsible enough to buy M-rated software for your children, you can't throw a fuss and say, "OMG, there's material in here that's innappropriate for my 10 year old! This game should have an Adult's Only rating!"

Again, it comes down to lazy parenting. Parents have this idea that M-rated games are rated M for violence, and rather argue with their child, they want to just give in and think the game is okay for their child anyway. When they find out that GTA isn't, even without the Hot Coffee mod, they'd rather blame the ESRB for not giving in an AO rating than admit that they were in the wrong for buying M-rated games for kids.

In other news, I don't know if it's been officiall announced yet, but at Gamestop, we pulled ALL copies (PC, PS2, and Xbox, new and used) from our shelves yesterday.

[Skull Leader]

wow, I never would've thought that Gamestop would go so far as to yank the console versions (to my knowledge, the mod doesn't work on those, does it?)

[MGREXX]

Hot coffe boils over

The final chapter

Btw, the console version does have the sex mini games in it, ehich can be accessed thru cheat devices (see above).

Now, who can provide a link to see these "X-rated acts"

(que porn music)

[azrael]

Again, it comes down to lazy parenting.  Parents have this idea that M-rated games are rated M for violence, and rather argue with their child, they want to just give in and think the game is okay for their child anyway.  When they find out that GTA isn't, even without the Hot Coffee mod, they'd rather blame the ESRB for not giving in an AO rating than admit that they were in the wrong for buying M-rated games for kids.

In other news, I don't know if it's been officiall announced yet, but at Gamestop, we pulled ALL copies (PC, PS2, and Xbox, new and used) from our shelves yesterday.

312961[/snapback]

Best Buy also pulled it.

Lazy parenting? Sure. Just because you don't want to watch over your kid's well being, you expect others to do it for you....What happen to the days were it was your own damn fault? Geez. It is just as bad as that kid who said he got his cop killing ideas from GTA and people were blaming GTA, blah blah blah. I also get ideas from my violent games. You know, blasting someone with a rocket launcher, pumping a entire magazine into someone, etc. Heck, all of us have probably had some thought about acting out a gaming sequence. But that doesn't mean we'll actually go do it (unless you're that stupid). That kid was the one who killed the cop, not GTA. If the game has a "M/17+" rating and you're buying it for a 12 yr old....you gotta wonder.

edit: clarify.

Edited July 21, 2005 by azrael

[Ghadrack]

Our culture is broken. Societies view of accountability, blame and responsibility are so skewed it isn't even funny anymore. When a thief can break into your house, threaten to kill you, then sue you and win because you defended yourself, when the family of a stupid kid who trespasses on your property then accidentally drowns himself in your pool can sue you and win a negligence and wrongful death case against you something just isn't right.

The comical thing about this is, that anyone capable of hacking the save game to see the "pornographic" part of the game is more than capable of typing www.nameyoursexactorbadword.com, and can do it more easily. Deactivated content in a game already rated at mature is hardly the thundering boom of porn in a disney game rated at 6 year olds.

Yay overly dramatic ballyhooo..

[Kin]

Ok this is my opinion:

OK... who's in the mood of making sex mods for other games? What's the difference?... I mean if u program a few coordinates and replace some textures in a 3d game you can see people doing with each other.

The same as, how can u rate a cablereciever 18+ if there are also channels for kids. It has a parental lock and so does SA in the way that it wasn't accessable during gameplay.

Those *ssholes are all focused on Rockstar's succes and want to take money profit in a sleazy way... how low can u be in this "fake" world of so called Parental Control. The world is all about money, believe me, they don't care about parents nor kids.

Why didn't they took action on the Laura croft nude patch?

The damn government made a fool out of themselves... there just the same like politicians in VC RADIO

[Gunbuster]

LOL! This is so funny! It's ok to kill, blow people's head off and run people over with cars (something that you don't want the kids to do in real life), but having natural sex (something that the kids will eventualy do) is a big No, No? ...Things that make you say "hmm..."

I think the real reason for this is, all the haters of the game (the ones that wanted to pull the game off the shelf in the first place for its violence) final has the ammo to do something about it.

Edited July 22, 2005 by Gunbuster

[sabretooth]

well today they pulled all the gta sd from the shelves...

damn sad.

[Sundown]

Why didn't they took action on the Laura croft nude patch?

313038[/snapback]

Because the actual content-- artwork, textures, models, animation-- of the Tomb Raider "nude patch" wasn't created by the developers of the game. They were just silly textures created by a third party to replace the originals.

Here we actually have adult content being created and distributed by the authors of the game that can be accessed by performing minor modification to the game's code.

Sure, much of the ballyhoo over this is silly. The content is accessible only to someone actively looking for it, and capable of running the hack that enables it. But Rockstar showed a marked lack of integrity by implying that "sophisticated hackers" were responsible for this content, that these alleged hackers made extensive modifications to the code and data to produce the risque scenes in question.

Their claims were designed to deflect responsibility, and their vague allusions to "hacking" and "code modification" were designed to lead the average non-programmer to think that Rockstar was totally uninvolved in how the scenes got there, without them actually saying specifically so, and thus being caught in a direct lie.

Of course it turns out that most of the content and artwork was actually created by Rockstar themselves, and it required only minor bit twiddling to coax them out.

So the thing that bugs me isn't so much the fact that these scenes exist, unaccessible until you go significantly out of your way to enable them. Allowing this sort of thing in your game is either genius or foolish depending on your view and on how things play out. But it bugs me much more that Rockstar won't own up and be upfront with their customers. The game's rating being changed to AO doesn't make much sense, seeing as the AO content isn't actually accessible in normal use-- but a big part of me is amused to see this happen as a result of Rockstar's schtick and their unwillingness to take responsibility.

I suppose the reason it's being re-rated is this: There is adult-only content in the game, and the fact that it exists and how to go about getting at it is now public knowledge.

Sure, a savvy kid who can unlock this content probably can find more explicit stuff himself on the net... but that doesn't mean that we shrug and hand him more similar stuff just because he can. And while the Mature rating should already prevent the same kid from buying the game himself, the AO rating would clearly warn a parent who for some reason isn't familiar with the game and this issue explicitly, when his or her kid might be.

We can argue that a decent parent wouldn't purchase Mature games for their kids in the first place, or we can point out the silliness of our culture for its attitude towards violence versus its attitude towards sex. But in the end, ratings convey to the customer what sort of content is to be expected. And the new AO rating allows the parent to make the final call based on what actually is there, even if they're not aware of the controversy and nuances surrounding a game.

-Al

Edited July 22, 2005 by Sundown

[Apollo Leader]

Though my comments aren't aimed towards any one particular person who's participated in this thread, but for those who talk about sex being "harmless" - movies, TV, and in this case, video games, only show the fun and enjoyment. Rarely do they look into the physical and phsycological damage/consequences that can result (VD, pregnancy, millions of "unwanted" babies from said pregnancies being snuffed out via abortion, etc.).

[JB0]

Though my comments aren't aimed towards any one particular person who's participated in this thread, but for those who talk about sex being "harmless" - movies, TV, and in this case, video games, only show the fun and enjoyment.  Rarely do they look into the physical and phsycological damage/consequences that can result (VD, pregnancy, millions of "unwanted" babies from said pregnancies being snuffed out via abortion, etc.).

313095[/snapback]

Relatively speaking, it IS harmless.

Remember, we're talking about GTA here.

Given all the rest of the content in the game, having sex with your girlfriend ranks pretty darn low on the list of evils of the world.

[Atheonyirh]

Though my comments aren't aimed towards any one particular person who's participated in this thread, but for those who talk about sex being "harmless" - movies, TV, and in this case, video games, only show the fun and enjoyment.  Rarely do they look into the physical and phsycological damage/consequences that can result (VD, pregnancy, millions of "unwanted" babies from said pregnancies being snuffed out via abortion, etc.).

313095[/snapback]

Relatively speaking, it IS harmless.

Remember, we're talking about GTA here.

Given all the rest of the content in the game, having sex with your girlfriend ranks pretty darn low on the list of evils of the world.

313101[/snapback]

Ironically, the sex minigame is one of the most wholesome activities you do in the game.. Killing crack dealers, blowing the heads clean off of cops, carjacking, turf wars, drive-by's, acting as a damned federal agent on black-ops, working for and against the mafia, the triads, etc.. Even the tamer competiitions (racings, low-rider, etc) could be argued to be gambling or the ever-ambigious 'organized crime' due to competing for cash. =P

So we have a game full of moral ambiguity and malicious behavior of a most basic, violent level. ...Yet they're worried about you boning your girlfriend while you're fully-clothed for all intents and purposes? Where the hell was the whining to make God of War AO for /its/ sex minigame, tits galore, and violence..?

[chrono]

Why didn't they took action on the Laura croft nude patch?

313038[/snapback]

Their claims were designed to deflect responsibility, and their vague allusions to "hacking" and "code modification" were designed to lead the average non-programmer to think that Rockstar was totally uninvolved in how the scenes got there, without them actually saying specifically so, and thus being caught in a direct lie.

-Al

313089[/snapback]

They actually weren't caught in a 'lie'. Hacking and Code MOD'ing are illegal anyways(something that ALOT of these whiny assed people conveniently ignore and I haven't heard of anyone being sued or jailed because of it) and by their saying that those scenes are not 'in the game' are totally true. Mainly because of the context they used.

It's like modifing your vehicle(voiding the warranty), having it breakdown and then bitching at the company you bought the vehicle from because they won't paid for the repairs. Then having the goverment step in and demand that they company pay! Beyond childish, but hey shps!

But come-on people this is GTA! It has a long HISTORY of televised and publically discussed violent and profane behavior! Get a CLUE already!!!

[JB0]

Though my comments aren't aimed towards any one particular person who's participated in this thread, but for those who talk about sex being "harmless" - movies, TV, and in this case, video games, only show the fun and enjoyment.  Rarely do they look into the physical and phsycological damage/consequences that can result (VD, pregnancy, millions of "unwanted" babies from said pregnancies being snuffed out via abortion, etc.).

313095[/snapback]

Relatively speaking, it IS harmless.

Remember, we're talking about GTA here.

Given all the rest of the content in the game, having sex with your girlfriend ranks pretty darn low on the list of evils of the world.

313101[/snapback]

Ironically, the sex minigame is one of the most wholesome activities you do in the game.. Killing crack dealers, blowing the heads clean off of cops, carjacking, turf wars, drive-by's, acting as a damned federal agent on black-ops, working for and against the mafia, the triads, etc.. Even the tamer competiitions (racings, low-rider, etc) could be argued to be gambling or the ever-ambigious 'organized crime' due to competing for cash. =P

Don't forget banging hookers!

Or was that not in this installation?

So we have a game full of moral ambiguity and malicious behavior of a most basic, violent level. ...Yet they're worried about you boning your girlfriend while you're fully-clothed for all intents and purposes? Where the hell was the whining to make God of War AO for /its/ sex minigame, tits galore, and violence..?

313110[/snapback]

And if God of War had been entitled Grand Theft Auto 68 BC, they'd've been all over it.

They actually weren't caught in a 'lie'. Hacking and Code MOD'ing are illegal anyways(something that ALOT of these whiny assed people conveniently ignore and I haven't heard of anyone being sued or jailed because of it) and by their saying that those scenes are not 'in the game' are totally true. Mainly because of the context they used.

Hacking and modding are NOT illegal.

And Rockstar WAS caught in a lie, as they said the hackers created the scenes, models, animations, audio clips, etc, as opposed to flipping one bit to unlock them.

It's like modifing your vehicle(voiding the warranty), having it breakdown and then bitching at the company you bought the vehicle from because they won't paid for the repairs. Then having the goverment step in and demand that they company pay! Beyond childish, but hey shps!

It's more like you modify your vehicle to disable the air bag, and the news blames the auto manufacturer.

And then the dealerships issue recall notices on ALL cars of your make.

And the NHTSA gives it a lower crash safety rating because it CAN not have a working airbag.

[Sundown]

They actually weren't caught in a 'lie'. Hacking and Code MOD'ing are illegal anyways(something that ALOT of these whiny assed people conveniently ignore and I haven't heard of anyone being sued or jailed because of it) and by their saying that those scenes are not 'in the game' are totally true.

313116[/snapback]

Well, the lie wasn't that third parties hacked or modified their code, nor was the lie that these actions are illegal and against the EULA.

The "lie" lies in their attempt to make it seem as if they had no part in the creation of the content-- almost as if they're shocked that the thing even exists in their game-- when in fact, they probably spent more time, effort, and manpower on the sex minigame than the hackers that enabled it by prodding the correct bits to turn it on.

"Hey... how did that get there? Hackers! Vicious hackers. Really."

No matter how we dance around the semantics, it's obvious Rockstar wants us to believe something that is simply not true-- that the game wasn't put there mostly by their intent and effort. Yes, while the scenes are not techincally "in the released game" if you play through it normally, the content is on the released disks, and could be accessed with a little bit of work.

It's like modifing your vehicle(voiding the warranty), having it breakdown and then bitching at the company you bought the vehicle from because they won't paid for the repairs. Then having the goverment step in and demand that they company pay! Beyond childish, but hey shps!

Actually, it's more akin to finding that there's an undocumented explosive device built into your driver's seat. Sure, it's off and won't activate unless you change your radio station to 99.1FM at 3:52 am while driving backwards over 30 mph and doing the hokey pokey. Sure you're mostly safe. But what the heck is it doing there, and who put it there in the first place?

What would a sensible reaction in this scenario? To question the automaker and question why the device was installed, I imagine. And maybe to have the car affixed with big warning labels that declare it "potentially explosive", even though the chance of the device going off are extremely slim... oh, because customers tend to care about that sort of thing. The new AO rating accomplishes roughly the same function.

If the scenes are truly "not in the game", and Rockstar is truly not responsible for them being there, then we should be perfectly fine with Disney encoding snipits of porn on disks of Bambi, Lion King, and My Little Mermaid that can't be accessed unless a specific sequence of inputs are entered on the DVD player. But I suspect most parents just won't go for that.

-Al

[Keith]

Tities.....

Prude's don't play video games, kids can get pornography easily enough if they look for it, and this is all just a bunch of B.S. Considering that it's "fictional ses" for all intents & purposes, this shouldn't rank up higher than an M or movie equivilent of an R.

[Skull Leader]

I like tities.

[ogami]

Tities.....

Prude's don't play video games, kids can get pornography easily enough if they look for it, and this is all just a bunch of B.S. Considering that it's "fictional ses" for all intents & purposes, this shouldn't rank up higher than an M or movie equivilent of an R.

313142[/snapback]

I agree with you. There is no point of only blaming GTA.

If the US government going to do something... change the whole entertainment industry, ban porn/sex content from TV, Internet and every single digital media...

[Keith]

If Clinton was still president, this wouldn't even be an isssue....

[Atheonyirh]

The single most hilarious thing that these people have overlooked.. is that their fuss is what made this mod so popular! I sure as hell didn't know about it before everyone started going "omg, titties in GTA!"

The code was hidden well enough that in the almost-a-year timespan of the PS2 version being out, no one found it. It wasn't until the PC version came out (where they SHOULD of taken the time to clean up the code while they were changing things..) and the scripting files became easily accessable and modifiable that it was found out. From there they used the data they knew and back-tracked in the PS2 and X-Box versions to find the same code.

The idea of making what is already a Mature rated game 'Adults Only' just because parents are too lazy or stupid to realize what they're buying for Little Timmy, let alone that Little Timmy can find FAR better (and already has, I guarantee..) means of getting himself corrupted (and off..) then badly rendered, polygonal tits in a GTA:SA game.

But of course, videogames are only for children.. and we can't have our children looking for ways to unlock pr0n in their games on the internet! Why, they might figure out it's easier just to skip the middleman of the game and go straight for the pr0n online.

[Kin]

Lol what about the dildo's, strip'n sxshops in the game?

[azrael]

In any case, Take-Two has ceased production of the game until Rockstar sends them a "clean" copy. Not that it matters now, the game has been out on PS2/Xbox for a year.

Why, they might figure out it's easier just to skip the middleman of the game and go straight for the pr0n online.

Yeah...heaven forbid that a kid would get their pr0n from a video game.

[Apollo Leader]

If Clinton was still president, this wouldn't even be an isssue....

313156[/snapback]

The whole blow up over Mortal Kombat and Night Trap and the creation of the ESRB happened during the first two years of Bill Clinton's first term.

It's funny seeing Hillary, who is further left then Bill, coming out as this high-and-mighty, anti-video game crusader in order to appeal to a bigger audiance for her 2008 presidential run. Though one thing is consistant with her true liberal nature is that she wants big government to be the fix of all problems.

[Skull Leader]

It's funny seeing Hillary, who is further left then Bill, coming out as this high-and-mighty, anti-video game crusader in order to appeal to a bigger audiance for her 2008 presidential run.  Though one thing is consistant with her true liberal nature is that she wants big government to be the fix of all problems.

313227[/snapback]

That's probably because she's trying to appeal herself to the conservative vote, since rumor has it she's gonna try and run in 2008. Yet ANOTHER reason why Arkansas was not so sad to see Hillary go. She'll change her philosophies like some people change underwear.

[Zentrandude]

Why didn't they took action on the Laura croft nude patch?

313038[/snapback]

Because the actual content-- artwork, textures, models, animation-- of the Tomb Raider "nude patch" wasn't created by the developers of the game. They were just silly textures created by a third party to replace the originals.

Here we actually have adult content being created and distributed by the authors of the game that can be accessed by performing minor modification to the game's code.

Sure, much of the ballyhoo over this is silly. The content is accessible only to someone actively looking for it, and capable of running the hack that enables it. But Rockstar showed a marked lack of integrity by implying that "sophisticated hackers" were responsible for this content, that these alleged hackers made extensive modifications to the code and data to produce the risque scenes in question.

Their claims were designed to deflect responsibility, and their vague allusions to "hacking" and "code modification" were designed to lead the average non-programmer to think that Rockstar was totally uninvolved in how the scenes got there, without them actually saying specifically so, and thus being caught in a direct lie.

Of course it turns out that most of the content and artwork was actually created by Rockstar themselves, and it required only minor bit twiddling to coax them out.

So the thing that bugs me isn't so much the fact that these scenes exist, unaccessible until you go significantly out of your way to enable them. Allowing this sort of thing in your game is either genius or foolish depending on your view and on how things play out. But it bugs me much more that Rockstar won't own up and be upfront with their customers. The game's rating being changed to AO doesn't make much sense, seeing as the AO content isn't actually accessible in normal use-- but a big part of me is amused to see this happen as a result of Rockstar's schtick and their unwillingness to take responsibility.

I suppose the reason it's being re-rated is this: There is adult-only content in the game, and the fact that it exists and how to go about getting at it is now public knowledge.

Sure, a savvy kid who can unlock this content probably can find more explicit stuff himself on the net... but that doesn't mean that we shrug and hand him more similar stuff just because he can. And while the Mature rating should already prevent the same kid from buying the game himself, the AO rating would clearly warn a parent who for some reason isn't familiar with the game and this issue explicitly, when his or her kid might be.

We can argue that a decent parent wouldn't purchase Mature games for their kids in the first place, or we can point out the silliness of our culture for its attitude towards violence versus its attitude towards sex. But in the end, ratings convey to the customer what sort of content is to be expected. And the new AO rating allows the parent to make the final call based on what actually is there, even if they're not aware of the controversy and nuances surrounding a game.

-Al

313089[/snapback]

think he meant the sims 1/2 desensor patch/code but you still need like a texture replacement to have something down there i belive.

[JB0]

If Clinton was still president, this wouldn't even be an isssue....

313156[/snapback]

Indeed.

Nothing like a sexual harassment lawsuit against the president to make the media forget about everything else.

[Project Phoenix]

For all we know, some of these high and mighty senators' kids are playing San Andreas and accessing the Hot Coffee mod as we speak.

[MGREXX]

AND THE BEAT GOES ON.........

REACTIONS

[MGREXX]

HMMM............could The sims be next????

Link

Edited July 22, 2005 by MGREXX

[ogami]

As of now, Rockstar maintains its position that the Hot Coffee minigames are the work of "an unauthorized third party modification."

When will Rockstar admit that they forgot to remove the Hot Coffee minigames...

As for the Sims 2...

Today's kids can buy playboy (and have sex) whenever they want so what is the point of banning a life simulator with unrealistic CG characters...

If I am a parent, I will watch over what my kids play (and even play with them). It is the parents responsibility to teach the kids what is right and wrong. And, of course, it is also the parents job to teach the kids about SEX.

Edited July 22, 2005 by ogami

[JKeats]

I swear, parent group/politicians' complaints about too much sex/violence in the media is such a huge effin' copout. Their fear of what could be damaging to their precious little ones is insane. If a huge ass "M for Mature" isn't going to stop them from buying GTA for junior then how is an "AO" label going to stop them?

Through all of this kind of shite, I just hear Reverend Lovejoy's wife pleading, "Will somebody please think of the children?"

Edited July 22, 2005 by JKeats

[Zentrandude]

HMMM............could The sims be next????

Link

313290[/snapback]

crap thats what i get for saying sims 1/2. never liked that game anyways, i keep killing off everybody with the common cold and the evil broken microwave.

[JB0]

As of now, Rockstar maintains its position that the Hot Coffee minigames are the work of "an unauthorized third party modification."

When will Rockstar admit that they forgot to remove the Hot Coffee minigames...

Again, they didn't forget. Leaving unused content on the media is a standard practice.

[Pat Payne]

This guy Thompson, who's been going against video games reminds me too much of Dr. Wertham, who in the '50s wrote "Seduction of the Innocent" which accused comic books of:

*fostering crime

*fostering homosexuality (he picked mercilessly on the Batman books for this one) and sexual promiscuity in general

*engendering racism

*desensitizing kids to violence

*sneaking in sex to hook readers

*supporting disobedience of authority and parents

*advocating suicide

*advocating drug use

*hell, it's been a long while since I've read the book, but I wouldn't be surprised if he accused the comics industry of turning all children into Commies as well.

With the exception of the "commie" quip at the end, isn't that basically the same list of charges Thompson is presenting against video games?

Wertham was also the star witness for the persecution--I'm sorry, prosecution --during Sen. Estes Kefauver's hearings on comic books and their links to juvenile deliquency. Bill Gaines (then publisher of "Tales from the Crypt," later publisher of "MAD") was the opposite number, by the way.

It ended with the formation of the Comics Code Authority, which (as everyone knows) was the industry's last-ditch effort to police itself (basically by serving up EC Publications [Gaines' company] on a platter as a sacrifice) before the government decided to do it for them. It's the same drive that launched the MPAA's rating system as well as the ESRB. The ESRB seems to be working well, AS LONG AS THE DATA THAT GOES INTO THE RATING CAN BE TRUSTED -- it is, however, parents who have to stop their kids from buying M games (since AO games are generally only sold at porno shops, they are not as much of a problem.)

And as to Thompson's charges: Rockstar was stupid to have nude adults and hide the content AND then lie about it to gwet a more lenient/marketable rating. EA would be suicidal to have nude children, hide the content and lie about it. I believe EA on this one. They would not, I believe, risk a significant number of sales and an enormous backlash by having easily revealed virtual kiddie porn in a game. What the ESRB needs to do, from now on is demand to see ALL content, accessible or not, on a disc so that that doesn't happen again.

[Kin]

As of now, Rockstar maintains its position that the Hot Coffee minigames are the work of "an unauthorized third party modification."

When will Rockstar admit that they forgot to remove the Hot Coffee minigames...

As for the Sims 2...

Today's kids can buy playboy (and have sex) whenever they want so what is the point of banning a life simulator with unrealistic CG characters...

If I am a parent, I will watch over what my kids play (and even play with them). It is the parents responsibility to teach the kids what is right and wrong. And, of course, it is also the parents job to teach the kids about SEX.

313293[/snapback]

Yeah ur right, the inevidable will come sooner or later anyway. I was an 80's child we didn't saw much accept "lederhosen" movies lol, compared to nowadays nude spanky MTV clips and stuff it's much worse now.

Edited July 22, 2005 by Kin