Robotech and HG license debates

[akt_m]

Just got banned from robotech.com.

I just told them the truth.

[Gubaba]

Just got banned from robotech.com.

I just told them the truth.

Didn't you just sign up, like, a couple days ago...?

[akt_m]

Didn't you just sign up, like, a couple days ago...?

Nah, i had my account for years, but never used it until now. My topic got deleted... wasn't even locked.

Edited April 27, 2009 by akt_m

[taksraven]

Nah, i had my account for years, but never used it until now. My topic got deleted... wasn't even locked.

C'mon, give us the juicy details. What exactly did you say??

Taksraven

[Seto Kaiba]

C'mon, give us the juicy details. What exactly did you say??

I too am interested to hear this... what did you post that so offended them?

[Duke Togo]

Just got banned from robotech.com.

I just told them the truth.

That the Boston Red Sox "bought" their 2004 and 2007 championships?

[akt_m]

Was something like this:

Topic title: Why HG will never do a sequel on par with "The Macross Saga"

Then i just split out that HG will never do a good sequel simply because their staff don't have "the skills" to do anime. And if they had they would have already been able to do their own mech designs, their own series from scratch. They wouldn't had even the need to use other anime to do their mess.

So i told to all robotech fans that they can't blame HG because they were doing their best already.

But they accused me of trolling with no chance do reply.

Edited April 27, 2009 by akt_m

[Gubaba]

Was something like this:

Topic title: Why HG will never do a sequel on par with "The Macross Saga"

Then i just split out that HG will never do a good sequel simply because their staff don't have "the skills" to do anime. And if they had they would have already been able to do their own mech designs, their own series from scratch. They wouldn't had even the need to use other anime to do their mess.

So i told to all robotech fans that they can't blame HG because they were doing their best already.

But they accused me of trolling with no chance do reply.

Well...they were kinda right...

Anyway, I'm sure they're glad of the chance to thin out the ranks of the overcrowded and thronging Robotech forums, even if only a little.

[Seto Kaiba]

But they accused me of trolling with no chance do reply.

Robotech fans have issues with the truth... they're as deep in denial as it's possible to be.

Anyway, I'm sure they're glad of the chance to thin out the ranks of the overcrowded and thronging Robotech forums, even if only a little.

Are you sure we're talking about the same Robotech.com? If I could pick words to describe the site, "overcrowded" and "thronging" would not be among them... quiet as a grave over there most of the time.

[RavenHawk]

Yeah, so many issues that Harmony Gold issued a recall for it. Not only was it manufactured from inferior materials, it had design issues (several parts from the normal Alpha MPC were used that weren't supposed to be, including the intake covers).

Toynami issued the recall, not Harmony Gold. Just to be clear.

I can't imagine Harmony Gold ever voluntarily recalling anything. I've dealt with their customer "service" before...

[Jasonc]

Who banned you , and is the post still up? Give us the link, someone. I can understand them wanting to ban you. The truth hurts when you have turned from it, especially when it stares you in the face. My additional accounts over there get banned from time to time, and I use a proxy. It's funny, cause sometimes, they ban people who think it's someone else.

I think it's great to keep them on the defense all the time. You really get to see more of the underlying character when they get defensive.

[akt_m]

Don't know who banned me. aka_s2h replied saying that Macross Frontier is just a reteling of the SDF Macross and it was crap.

Then when i tried to login i got this message: "This account is not active." My topic got deleted, they also deleted my reply on the other topic Seto Kaiba was putting kevin on the corner. And their only solution was to lock the thread.

Edited April 27, 2009 by akt_m

[Seto Kaiba]

Don't know who banned me. aka_s2h replied saying that Macross Frontier is just a reteling of the SDF Macross and it was crap.

Then when i tried to login i got this message: "This account is not active." My topic got deleted, they also deleted my reply on the other topic Seto Kaiba was putting kevin on the corner. And their only solution was to lock the thread.

Now that doesn't surprise me.

Most of Robotech.com's moderators are quick to lock threads that are critical of Robotech, but look the other way when Robotech fans bash Macross. Right now, there's only one moderator who's a regular on there who I can actually say I can respect... MEMO1DOMINION. The only other two regular moderators, Seifrietti Weisse and Maverick_LSC, have this unpleasant tendency of stepping up to defend people flamebaiting Macross fans, and stopping people from posting legitimate criticism of Robotech.

[azrael]

I thought we ended this who mess of going to RT.com to cause trouble long ago. We don't need or want a site war going on. Let them live in their own little world over there.

[Gubaba]

I thought we ended this who mess of going to RT.com to cause trouble long ago. We don't need or want a site war going on. Let them live in their own little world over there.

Sounds fine to me...last thing I want is a bunch of RT fans coming over here...we already have enough "MACROSS 7 IS GAY!!!!" threads without them, I think...

[Jasonc]

RavenHawk, where is that interview at? Do you have a link for it? The one I read didn't have any mention of him talking about that. If it is the one I'm referring to, perhaps Tommy had it erased after realizing that we are catching him lying??? Anyways, let me know if you can find it.

Don't know who banned me. aka_s2h replied saying that Macross Frontier is just a reteling of the SDF Macross and it was crap.

Then when i tried to login i got this message: "This account is not active." My topic got deleted, they also deleted my reply on the other topic Seto Kaiba was putting kevin on the corner. And their only solution was to lock the thread.

That's quite shady. Usually they at least tell you who is banning you. I'd shoot them an email, and get an answer for that. If you get no answer, it only proves our points we make here. Even when I got banned for what was supposed to be 4 weeks, I knew it came from TOMMY's BROTHER. Send one of those emails, they'll probably expect you to send an apology for your sins.

I don't think anybody is starting a war over there. Seto still interacts over there and seems to be fine. It seems like just an isolated banning. If it was something planned, I'd say it's a bit unnecessary. The way things are now seem OK for now.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Jasonc

[Seto Kaiba]

I thought we ended this who mess of going to RT.com to cause trouble long ago. We don't need or want a site war going on. Let them live in their own little world over there.

It's not an orchestrated attempt to cause trouble over there, not by any means. Just the few of us who still have accounts over there complaining about the unfair treatment we're receiving at the hands of the moderators for making what are by all evidence completely accurate statements about the current position of the franchise, and its future prospects. We're just appalled by the fact that Robotech.com's moderators are so dedicated to quashing any criticism of Robotech that they delete posts, lock threads, and ban people for giving opinions that don't even violate the site's terms of use.

It's like a god damn police state over there...

[Gubaba]

It's not an orchestrated attempt to cause trouble over there, not by any means. Just the few of us who still have accounts over there complaining about the unfair treatment we're receiving at the hands of the moderators for making what are by all evidence completely accurate statements about the current position of the franchise, and its future prospects. We're just appalled by the fact that Robotech.com's moderators are so dedicated to quashing any criticism of Robotech that they delete posts, lock threads, and ban people for giving opinions that don't even violate the site's terms of use.

It's like a god damn police state over there...

Why do you want to change it? Let them get as totalitarian as they wanna be. The number of people who post will shrink, people will get fed up, and soon it'll just be the moderators talking to each other about how great Shadow Rising will be.

Since that seems to be what they want, why not let them have it? It's not like there aren't other sites for RT fans to go to...

[azrael]

Why do you want to change it? Let them get as totalitarian as they wanna be. The number of people who post will shrink, people will get fed up, and soon it'll just be the moderators talking to each other about how great Shadow Rising will be.

Since that seems to be what they want, why not let them have it? It's not like there aren't other sites for RT fans to go to...

Exactly. They run their site the way they want to. People use to come here all the time to complain about RT.com's modus operandi. And you know what? It wasn't our problem. So if you want to change things, do it over there cuz we can't change they way they do business cuz it ain't our site.

[Seto Kaiba]

Why do you want to change it? Let them get as totalitarian as they wanna be. The number of people who post will shrink, people will get fed up, and soon it'll just be the moderators talking to each other about how great Shadow Rising will be.

Since that seems to be what they want, why not let them have it? It's not like there aren't other sites for RT fans to go to...

While it is tempting to let the moderators ride roughshod over the Robotech fanbase, it just doesn't sit right with me to do nothing while good people are abused by idiots in authority they don't deserve. I know I'm not going to be able to change anything over there, I just pipe up every now and then to point out the lies, half-truths, and exaggerations when the bullshit starts getting too thick for me to stand.

Believe it or not, I don't actually hate Robotech. I acknowledge that it was instrumental in igniting western interest in anime. I also acknowledge that it's a crudely executed amalgam of three shows that were never intended to be together, and that time has been distinctly unkind to it, rendering it an all-but-forgotten piece of 80's pop culture that failed to thrive and grow beyond its origins. I would be interested to see an all-new, all-original Robotech with no ties to Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada... and I know full well it will never happen. I go to Robotech.com for one reason, to answer the questions that the fans are asking about the show's origins, its universe, and its future prospects. Better they get an honest answer from me than fallacy-ridden crap from people like Treiz and Jeebers... and when they do eventually say "Enough of this poo! I want something better!" I'll be there with a friendly smile and some information about Macross.

I've personally introduced something like seventy Robotech fans to Macross over the last five years... and almost all have come back to learn more after their first taste.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Gubaba]

While it is tempting to let the moderators ride roughshod over the Robotech fanbase, it just doesn't sit right with me to do nothing while good people are abused by idiots in authority they don't deserve. I know I'm not going to be able to change anything over there, I just pipe up every now and then to point out the lies, half-truths, and exaggerations when the bullshit starts getting too thick for me to stand.

Believe it or not, I don't actually hate Robotech. I acknowledge that it was instrumental in igniting western interest in anime. I also acknowledge that it's a crudely executed amalgam of three shows that were never intended to be together, and that time has been distinctly unkind to it, rendering it an all-but-forgotten piece of 80's pop culture that failed to thrive and grow beyond its origins. I would be interested to see an all-new, all-original Robotech with no ties to Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada... and I know full well it will never happen. I go to Robotech.com for one reason, to answer the questions that the fans are asking about the show's origins, its universe, and its future prospects. Better they get an honest answer from me than fallacy-ridden crap from people like Treiz and Jeebers... and when they do eventually say "Enough of this poo! I want something better!" I'll be there with a friendly smile and some information about Macross.

I've personally introduced something like seventy Robotech fans to Macross over the last five years... and almost all have come back to learn more after their first taste.

As someone else said in a different thread, MacrossWorld shouldn't just be the refuge for people banned from RT.com. I thought that's what robotechx was for...

I dunno...I'm all for humanitarian projects, but it seems like, even with the misinformation getting tossed around on RT.com, all the tools are there for fans to find out more on their own.

Or maybe I'm just sick of posts like this one.

Anyway, the way things are going, it looks likethe only people left there will be the "Rah! Rah! Robotech! Macross sucks!" people, and you won't be able to convert them anyway...

[taksraven]

Sounds fine to me...last thing I want is a bunch of RT fans coming over here...we already have enough "MACROSS 7 IS GAY!!!!" threads without them, I think...

Some people would say that you could never get enough "MACROSS 7 IS GAY!!!" threads.

OK then. (Trying to steer this thread away from the RT.COM rocks that clearly threaten to sink it.)

If HG own the rights to Macross, I assume that they also own the rights to the ROBOTECH name. Ok, obvious statement, I know but I am interested because as far as I know the rights to the "Battle of the Planets" franchise that Sandy Frank owned were supposed to have expired back in 2007, so as far as I can tell there will be no new BOTP DVD's or other merch.

Does anybody know how this sort of situation came about and could it hold any relevance to the future of RT? I am just thinking along the lines of a future where maybe HG still holds the Western rights to Macross but maybe not Robotech? It would seem strange but I was wondering if it was possible?

The other interesting example I am aware of is the situation involving Spinal Tap. I have heard Harry Shearer say in numerous interviews that he and the other members of Spinal Tap HAVE to have at least one activity related to Spinal Tap each year (whether it be a few concerts, or a DVD or CD release) and if they don't, they will lose control of Spinal Tap. I am not sure how this situation came about but he did mention the involvement of the company CANAL+.

Taksraven

[Seto Kaiba]

As someone else said in a different thread, MacrossWorld shouldn't just be the refuge for people banned from RT.com. I thought that's what robotechx was for...

Absolutely, but there's nothing wrong with introducing Robotech fans to Macross and then setting those newly minted Macross fans loose here.

Anyway, the way things are going, it looks likethe only people left there will be the "Rah! Rah! Robotech! Macross sucks!" people, and you won't be able to convert them anyway...

I wouldn't go that far... for many, Robotech is an introduction to anime that leads them to pursue more sophisticated titles later on.

Sure, Robotech's creators are in denial about the fact that they don't actually own Macross, and are even more deeply in denial about the fact that their magnum opus has largely been forgotten, but that's just an unfortunate fact of life.

If HG own the rights to Macross, I assume that they also own the rights to the ROBOTECH name. Ok, obvious statement, I know but I am interested because as far as I know the rights to the "Battle of the Planets" franchise that Sandy Frank owned were supposed to have expired back in 2007, so as far as I can tell there will be no new BOTP DVD's or other merch.

The Battle of the Planets franchise seems to have up and died... the upcoming CGI movie is based directly upon the Japanese version (Science Ninja Team Gatchaman) and is being done by Imagi Animation Studios and Warner Brothers. It looks like the rights to the show were obtained directly from the Japanese creators.

Does anybody know how this sort of situation came about and could it hold any relevance to the future of RT? I am just thinking along the lines of a future where maybe HG still holds the Western rights to Macross but maybe not Robotech? It would seem strange but I was wondering if it was possible?

I suppose it would be akin to Harmony Gold losing the rights to Macross, effectively killing the franchise once and for all. I can see Harmony Gold potentially losing the western rights to Macross, but they'll never give up their pet project Robotech. Even if they lose the rights to Macross, they'll just keep doing what they've been doing, basing their future works on Southern Cross and Mospeada.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Gubaba]

NEWS FLASH!!

HG really does own all of Macross!

I was working on subs for Episode 8, and look what I found:

Well, that settles it, I guess. Let's just gather our stuff and go home...

Edited April 27, 2009 by Gubaba

[RavenHawk]

RavenHawk, where is that interview at? Do you have a link for it? The one I read didn't have any mention of him talking about that. If it is the one I'm referring to, perhaps Tommy had it erased after realizing that we are catching him lying??? Anyways, let me know if you can find it.

That's quite shady. Usually they at least tell you who is banning you. I'd shoot them an email, and get an answer for that. If you get no answer, it only proves our points we make here. Even when I got banned for what was supposed to be 4 weeks, I knew it came from TOMMY's BROTHER. Send one of those emails, they'll probably expect you to send an apology for your sins.

I don't think anybody is starting a war over there. Seto still interacts over there and seems to be fine. It seems like just an isolated banning. If it was something planned, I'd say it's a bit unnecessary. The way things are now seem OK for now.

This is the interview that I was talking about:

http://www.rtucn.com/curtain/staff/t-tommy-en.htm

I don't see mention of Steve in this, so either they deleted it, or I'm mixing it up with another interview. Either way, this one is an, ahem, "entertaining" read.

[Einherjar]

I say let all those involved with Robotech, fans and creative crew, drive themselves insane with the attempts to go on with the show. For the most part now it really matters to a small group of dedicated people online and then a huge group that remembers it but not as fanatical about it. HG's track record speaks for itself and if fans can't see through that then it's their loss. Let them look like tools for years if they can't realize it despite all the info that's been building up and years of receiving very little or nothing at all (unless reissuing bad toys and convention panels are really enough for them). Let them be the ones praying or begging for scraps from the website, conventions, or even Hollywood.

What we should be concerned about is how Macross is going to fit into their future plans. Clearly that franchise doesn't care what Robotech does and keeps going strong despite "legal issues." It's now more of a competition of which will outlast the other, money and popularity-wise in the animation world. Will they continue to pander to its style and following even further or try to prove Robotech is different?

[Duke Togo]

What we should be concerned about is how Macross is going to fit into their future plans.

It's now more of a competition of which will outlast the other, money and popularity-wise in the animation world.

It can't, they have no rights to it other than the original animation and international merchandising. They can't produce new animation with the SDF-1 in it, or Valkyries, or anything that has had the Macross named stamped on it since then.

Popularity wise, its not even a contest. Its not even close.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Duke Togo

[Einherjar]

Regarding at least the original Macross TV series, it isn't stopping a lot of unreasonable expectations from both sides of the franchise riding on the LAMR, Shadow Rising, and other products HG has up their sleeves.

[azrael]

The only way Robotech would impact Macross is if HG wants to license it, but then that's a whole new problem with music licensing, which involves money, and I don't see too many companies wanting to jump on that train in the current economic state of things.

Robotech is going off on it's own with the live-action. And as I've said many times, things are probably going to be redesigned since I don't see how a 80's cartoon design works for a live-action movie.

[Duke Togo]

Regarding at least the original Macross TV series, it isn't stopping a lot of unreasonable expectations from both sides of the franchise riding on the LAMR, Shadow Rising, and other products HG has up their sleeves.

The uneducated believe alot of things.

[BlackRose]

What we should be concerned about is how Macross is going to fit into their future plans. Clearly that franchise doesn't care what Robotech does and keeps going strong despite "legal issues." It's now more of a competition of which will outlast the other, money and popularity-wise in the animation world. Will they continue to pander to its style and following even further or try to prove Robotech is different?

If the trend that started in 2004 is any indication, how Macross will fit into future Harmony Gold plans is not really a concern after all.

When they made Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles, Harmony Gold went to great lengths to get every Macross holdover who wasn't absolutely plot-critical out of the picture, mostly by killing them off. Legally, they can't use any of the mechanical or character designs in future derivative works (animated OR live-action), so for the forseeable future they're just going to keep basing everything on Southern Cross and Mospeada. We might see them pull the same old stunt they did in the 90's, and rehash the "Macross Saga" through several different comic releases, but that's about the extent of what they can do legally.

I'd bet that Harmony Gold is going to resolutely plow ahead with their Mospeada-derived sequel plan, making as few references to Macross as possible.

Popularity wise, its not even a contest. Its not even close.

Well, the Shadow Chronicles thing was doomed from the word "go", because Macross is, was, and always will be the most popular of the three parts of Robotech by a considerable margin. Mospeada is an incredibly distant second, and Southern Cross is treated like the red-headed stepchild of an orphaned chimney sweep, sitting ignored and unloved, except for one or two tiny references to placate the nine or ten rabid fans of the Masters Saga.

Regarding at least the original Macross TV series, it isn't stopping a lot of unreasonable expectations from both sides of the franchise riding on the LAMR, Shadow Rising, and other products HG has up their sleeves.

Well, yeah. That's mostly because Harmony Gold has made it clear that all their hopes are riding on the LAM, and common sense is enough to show that if either goes under, it'll mean the start of a new 20-year silence from Harmony Gold, effectively killing the franchise. It also doesn't help that Harmony Gold is outright lying to fans about its ability to use Macross in future works, which has got a lot of fans asking awkward questions.

[Bri]

The only way Robotech would impact Macross is if HG wants to license it, but then that's a whole new problem with music licensing, which involves money, and I don't see too many companies wanting to jump on that train in the current economic state of things.

Robotech is going off on it's own with the live-action. And as I've said many times, things are probably going to be redesigned since I don't see how a 80's cartoon design works for a live-action movie.

Other then interfering with a possible DVD release I don't think the impact of HG on Macross is that big anyway. Merchandise? Most anime merchandise is purchased via the internet straight out of Japan anyway, this even goes for more popular franchises like Gundam and Evangelion. I would imagine that companies like HLJ and Overdrive are quite happy with HG hurting US importers.

Regarding the DVD release: I keep hearing this story of the Macross licenses being so expensive due to music licensing. But isn't that only relevant for Macross 7 which used an existing rock band? How far would this affect Zero and Frontier? Bandai visual released Frontier, would it not be likely that they would handle the western releases via one of their subsidiaries?

On that note, it will be interesting to see when the UK Macross trademark of HG runs out in July 2009. I'm sort of hoping for a European release of Frontier DVDs after that date, possebly by Beez (Bandai).

[Gubaba]

Regarding the DVD release: I keep hearing this story of the Macross licenses being so expensive due to music licensing. But isn't that only relevant for Macross 7 which used an existing rock band? How far would this affect Zero and Frontier? Bandai visual released Frontier, would it not be likely that they would handle the western releases via one of their subsidiaries?

Not only was it only relevant to M7, it was relevant to it fourteen years ago, when Fire Bomber CDs were still coming out. I would imagine that everything there is much cheaper now, but there are still a lot of people to pay.

HOWEVER, I'd imagine that since Frontier is big right now, and since it has spawned a number of certified Top 5 hits (and not just on the Anime Charts, but the REGULAR Charts...y'know, the ones NORMAL PEOPLE listen to! ), that the music rights would probably be even more expensive.

[Bri]

Not only was it only relevant to M7, it was relevant to it fourteen years ago, when Fire Bomber CDs were still coming out. I would imagine that everything there is much cheaper now, but there are still a lot of people to pay.

HOWEVER, I'd imagine that since Frontier is big right now, and since it has spawned a number of certified Top 5 hits (and not just on the Anime Charts, but the REGULAR Charts...y'know, the ones NORMAL PEOPLE listen to! ), that the music rights would probably be even more expensive.

But are the music rights relevant in Frontiers case? Normally in an anime production the rights are owned by the production committee. If Bandai (Visual) got the distribution rights for Japan, why not the international ones? It's not like the 90s where a western firm had to buy a license, now the Japanese companies can keep pretty much everything in house.

As a comparison: K-On has 2 top 10 hits now (I'm assuming the Oricon singles charts are mainstream not anime?) if this series get licensed, can we then make assumptions about Macross?

[Gubaba]

But are the music rights relevant in Frontiers case? Normally in an anime production the rights are owned by the production committee. If Bandai (Visual) got the distribution rights for Japan, why not the international ones? It's not like the 90s where a western firm had to buy a license, now the Japanese companies can keep pretty much everything in house.

As a comparison: K-On has 2 top 10 hits now (I'm assuming the Oricon singles charts are mainstream not anime?) if this series get licensed, can we then make assumptions about Macross?

Hmmm...I dunno. How close are Bandai and Victor? Victor has handled pretty much all the music in Macross (except for Macross Generation and the Macross 7 and SDFM Radio Dramas...those were put out by Polydor) since the beginning, including Frontier.