Radd Posted April 25, 2009 Posted April 25, 2009 Well, they're able to use the VF-X-4 in the comics, that much is for sure, because it appeared in "Robotech: From the Stars". Right. As I said, they are able to do this because comic books are considered merchandise. New animation would be considered a derivative. HG does have merchandising rights to SDFM, so they can use those designs in comics. They can use those designs in videogames. This, of course, flies in the face of reason, but that's the way it works.
Beltane70 Posted April 25, 2009 Posted April 25, 2009 Ugh, I just wasted time reading the last ten pages of this. My head hurts!
Jasonc Posted April 25, 2009 Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) No, they aren't. They can use the VF-X-4, because that appears in the animation they have the rights to, but not the actual VF-4 from Flashback 2012. Ahh, that's what I meant. In SDF:M it's only shown as a model or some valkyrie on a table, nothing more, nothing less. But they are able to use that design, and that one only, from what I understand. To the best of my knowledge, Tommy has only ever created one new transforming mecha. A blurry, out-of-focus image of the so-called "Gamma fighter" was used during the initial hype-building for RTSC, but never made it into the flick. It looks a lot like a transformable Conbat, with a battroid mode that looks rather like a VF-5000B. With all my hanging out with them back in the day, I have a pretty damn good scan of that thing in focus, and in some detail. It's not a bad looking fighter. It would've made RTSC just a bit more palletable had it been in there. I heard that he also made the Silverback dune buggy, but still. Clearly he's the best choice to helm a series known for intergalactic wars and transforming mecha. Then again, the guy before him couldn't even make or draw original crap. And right after I say "not a bad design" you mention this P.O.S. Never made sense, but there you go. What does? Right. As I said, they are able to do this because comic books are considered merchandise. New animation would be considered a derivative. HG does have merchandising rights to SDFM, so they can use those designs in comics. They can use those designs in videogames. This, of course, flies in the face of reason, but that's the way it works. Could be right on that. However, either way, all we know is that it was just a cheap way to use a "new" design as far as Robotech is concerned. HG: "Your VFX-4 is now belonging to us!" -Bastards!!! Edited April 25, 2009 by Jasonc
VF5SS Posted April 25, 2009 Posted April 25, 2009 I heard that he also made the Silverback dune buggy, but still. The Silverback strikes me as a thinly disguised Amdriver ripoff.
RavenHawk Posted April 25, 2009 Posted April 25, 2009 I heard that he also made the Silverback dune buggy, but still. Clearly he's the best choice to helm a series known for intergalactic wars and transforming mecha. Then again, the guy before him couldn't even make or draw original crap. That's the problem right there. Who cares even if he can draw original crap? That doesn't make him a writer. That doesn't make him a director. You don't hire somebody with a minimal amount of artistic background (even though his art is nice) to be your creative director. That is, frankly, more of a marketing job. You hire WRITERS to write your project, if you don't want it to seem amateurish. You hire someone with an actual directing track record to direct. It's that simple. The problem with a company like Harmony Gold is that there is no oversight. Somehow both Tommy and Steve got hired at that company, and now they do whatever they please, with no oversight whatsoever.
Robelwell202 Posted April 25, 2009 Posted April 25, 2009 Ugh, I just wasted time reading the last ten pages of this. My head hurts! I just wasted time watching RT:TDC, again... I bet my headache is worse than yours...
Gubaba Posted April 25, 2009 Posted April 25, 2009 I just wasted time watching RT:TDC, again... I bet my headache is worse than yours... Robotech: The Depressing Chronicles...? Robotech: The Desultory Chronicles...? Robotech: That Darn Cat...? (Nah, I know what you meant; but watching it again...why would you do such a thing?)
VFTF1 Posted April 25, 2009 Posted April 25, 2009 Ugh, I just wasted time reading the last ten pages of this. My head hurts! In the end - time wastes us. I personally dread this thread. It's probably the most difficult thread for me to get into on all of MW... Still, sometimes it gets interesting and the subject IS important. Pete
DarkHawk Posted April 25, 2009 Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) Heres something that has perplexed me since this whole HG vs BW vs Tatsunoko vs ROBOTECH fans vs The individual series(purists), what does HG hope to gain by contining to alienate fans both new and old? With all the retconns and just overall confusion, there is just too much being done which is causing something akin to the DC comics/Marvel comics multiverse and I personally cant keep track any longer. I personally enjoy both RT and all three of the individual series that comprise what was truned into RT. I have also met Carl Macek, Tommy Yune, and Kevin Mckeever. Both Tommy and Mr. Macek were nice, however, kevin spent too much time attempting to point out the flaws of the originals how much better RT was to and at the same time not allowing anyone to get a word in edgewise about what flaws RT might have had or still does have. This is not an attempt to bash RT as I enjoy them both. I just find that, as JasonC had said, and if I am quoting incorrectly I apologize, "Its time that there needs to be a seperation between those two entities in order to see if RT could stand on its own". I am also a memeber on the RT site and I remember it got really harsh in the chat rooms when company "Y" was even mentioned. I understand that it was a touchy subject then and still is now. However, in the plainest of tems, HG dug its own grave. Rather then pull the "stay away, its mine" card, HG should have extened the proverbial olive branch and worked with yamato and BW COOPERATIVELY for a myriad of reasons. The main reason is THE FANS. The SMALL population that garners them the BIG paychecks. Also, the ability to get a lineart accurate, collectors piece without having to mortgage the house would be a good thing. Just from the stand point of being a fan, and a collector in general, I believe RT would be a goldmine of transforming mecha toys. Even if the there were two disinctly different toylines. How much would it really cost to "retool" the decals/stickers and boxes? I give credit to Toynami for the attempts that were made so far, however, there is still room for improvement. How much room though depends on HG. I apologize for the rant.....This was just my 3 cents .....I like the edit feature.....it ACTUALLY does make things eariser to read..... Edited April 25, 2009 by DarkHawk
Einherjar Posted April 25, 2009 Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) That's the problem right there. Who cares even if he can draw original crap? That doesn't make him a writer. That doesn't make him a director. You don't hire somebody with a minimal amount of artistic background (even though his art is nice) to be your creative director. That is, frankly, more of a marketing job. You hire WRITERS to write your project, if you don't want it to seem amateurish. You hire someone with an actual directing track record to direct. It's that simple. The problem with a company like Harmony Gold is that there is no oversight. Somehow both Tommy and Steve got hired at that company, and now they do whatever they please, with no oversight whatsoever. If HG was willing to hire someone like Tommy Yune, who at best was an aspiring comic book artiest in the beginning, their criteria for a Creative Director candidate must have been very low. Anyone know who else they considered, I really have no clue who would else would fit, before ending up with him? EDIT: I meant artist, but I guess the other word works too. Edited April 25, 2009 by Einherjar
Mr March Posted April 25, 2009 Posted April 25, 2009 These suggestions of better, more talented artists, writers, directors and creative staff is all well and good, but shouldn't we consider the source? I mean, this is Robotech we're talking about here. If you were a talented and ambitious artist/writer/director, would your career goals be the addition of "Robotech" to your resume? Now I'm not saying most great artists don't have crap projects on their resume; hell, James Cameron has Piranha II: The Spawning on his. But most truly talented people who are serious about their careers aren't inspired to grab the reins of a poorly edited 80's cartoon franchise. Most who work their way up through the ranks aren't defined by the crap productions they worked on in their early years and they never sought to elevate those crap projects beyond what they were. Robotech ATTRACTS lousy because Robotech IS lousy. If it's not the bottom of the barrel for animated entertainment, it's really damn close. I'm not surprised if these HG productions attract a certain type of "talent" that is mostly devoid of any.
Robelwell202 Posted April 25, 2009 Posted April 25, 2009 Robotech: The Depressing Chronicles...? Robotech: The Desultory Chronicles...? Robotech: That Darn Cat...? (Nah, I know what you meant; but watching it again...why would you do such a thing?) That was initially a typo, but I'll roll with it... RT:TDC Is short for Robotech: The DUMB Chronicles... As for why I watched it again, I feel that i have to refresh my memory every so often, even with the bad stuff, or esle I have no right to b**** and moan...
Gubaba Posted April 25, 2009 Posted April 25, 2009 That was initially a typo, but I'll roll with it... RT:TDC Is short for Robotech: The DUMB Chronicles... As for why I watched it again, I feel that i have to refresh my memory every so often, even with the bad stuff, or esle I have no right to b**** and moan... Hmmm...I only saw it once (on YouTube, with Spanish subtitles), and that was enough. I admire your strength and fortitude.
Seto Kaiba Posted April 25, 2009 Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) I apologize for the rant.....This was just my 3 cents Your rant would've been a LOT easier on the eyes if it wasn't one stupendously huge paragraph. Break it up a bit next time, it'll be easier for everyone else to read. If HG was willing to hire someone like Tommy Yune, who at best was an aspiring comic book artiest in the beginning, their criteria for a Creative Director candidate must have been very low. Anyone know who else they considered, I really have no clue who would else would fit, before ending up with him? EDIT: I meant artist, but I guess the other word works too. Occasionally, I have cause to wonder why Harmony Gold was willing to settle for Tommy Yune. When he joined the Robotech franchise, his entire portfolio consisted of a couple adventure games (The Journeyman Chronicles series), a brief stint working on Superman Y2K, the comic adaptations of Speed Racer, and a Danger Girl miniseries. All in all, not the most impressive resume for a creative director. I'm guessing he was merely the best of a small group of applicants. It's not like Robotech creative director was/is a hugely prestigious position. He was probably the best they could find who was willing to do the job. EDIT: If anything, Danger Girl: Kamakaze ought to have been an indicator of how bad Yune's attempts to "improve" Robotech would be... the plot revolves around a Japanese fascist group left over from World War 2 (though one with paradoxically Communist insignia) who stole a germanium-based antimatter bomb made during the final months before the Japanese surrender (you may now "WTF"). Edited April 25, 2009 by Seto Kaiba
Einherjar Posted April 25, 2009 Posted April 25, 2009 If nepotism was involved anywhere in the hiring process (Steve Yune), I'd really be sad for the series and fandom.
Beltane70 Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 You know, I barely even remember what the Shadow Chronicles was like. I do remember not being very impressed, though.
RavenHawk Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 If nepotism was involved anywhere in the hiring process (Steve Yune), I'd really be sad for the series and fandom. Not sure. Here in the USA, a lot of people have said that they're brothers. On the other hand, in that interview Tommy did for a Chinese Robotech site, Tommy said that they're no related.
Xeros Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 As for why I watched it again, I feel that i have to refresh my memory every so often, even with the bad stuff, or esle I have no right to b**** and moan... I always see it again when I need to fall sleep fast...
akt_m Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 (edited) http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w93/jas...2/Aerial1_2.jpg Not even in 1000 years it could be considered anime... Harmony Gold should hire some of those doushijins japanese artists, i bet any of them could deliver a true anime experience. Edited April 26, 2009 by akt_m
Robelwell202 Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 Here's something new, from the PR folks at RT.com, for you to chew on... http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...&forumid=31 I use 'new' in the most sarcastic way possible...
anime52k8 Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 With all my hanging out with them back in the day, I have a pretty damn good scan of that thing in focus, and in some detail. It's not a bad looking fighter. It would've made RTSC just a bit more palletable had it been in there. how legally/morally obligated are you to not share that image? I've always wanted to get a good look at that myself.
Jasonc Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 If you do a search for it on Google, it's around. I don't know if the site I've seen these on is still around, but I'll upload it tomorrow morning, anime52k. Not sure. Here in the USA, a lot of people have said that they're brothers. On the other hand, in that interview Tommy did for a Chinese Robotech site, Tommy said that they're no related. That's quite funny...They ARE brothers, Tommy and Steve, although, I don't know who changed the spelling of the last name. My guess is Tommy to either make it look like he isn't related, or so people wouldn't mispronounce his name. I would think of that as being kinda shady if my own brother denied us being related because someone asked. Who knows, it must be one of those big HG secrets. Here's something new, from the PR folks at RT.com, for you to chew on... http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...&forumid=31 I use 'new' in the most sarcastic way possible... I like how Kevin said "high profile franchise." Um, no, Robotech is a back burner, bottom of the totem poll franchise, fighting for survival. Any production of Shadow Rising will not bring it out of that rut. Crap, RTSC didn't even do that. A sequel to something that didn't do it is probably gonna be the same. Perhaps, if the LAM comes, and that's a big IF, then maybe it'll stick it's head out of the water, but when I think of high profile, I think of Gundam, Star Wars, Transformers, G.I.Joe. Robotech??? Where the F@#K are you coming from? Heck even as Macross is gaining a boatload of new fans and a new popularity in Japan, and in the U.S. I wouldn't even call it a "high profile franchise", although it's close and could be somewhat debated. In reading Kevin's post, it's sad how the thread author just asks a simple question, and Kevin goes into brown nose PR mode and again says the same B.S. that he says all the time. I think he's forgotten how to talk normal. The used car salesman line is cheap, and nobody's buying, unless you've already bought all of it already. Another point on how bad the franchise has become. Everyone has a title there that they have no idea, or experience in. Thanks Kevin, for proving us right every time over here.
Gubaba Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 Here's something new, from the PR folks at RT.com, for you to chew on... http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...&forumid=31 I use 'new' in the most sarcastic way possible... What I find most interesting isn't the blather of Kevin McKeever...it's the meek, obsequious tone of the other posters...I haven't seen all that much over there, but from what I have seen, it seems like a lot of the posters are afraid of offending HG in any way, spiced up with a few who get too aggro about the whole. Anyway, it reminds me of Oliver Twist..."Please, sir...I'd like some more." I also like how the last post on the thread blames the shoddiness of the toys on the fact that they're imports from Japan...Jeez, grab a clue, RT people... I like how Kevin said "high profile franchise." Um, no, Robotech is a back burner, bottom of the totem poll franchise, fighting for survival. Any production of Shadow Rising will not bring it out of that rut. Crap, RTSC didn't even do that. A sequel to something that didn't do it is probably gonna be the same. Perhaps, if the LAM comes, and that's a big IF, then maybe it'll stick it's head out of the water, but when I think of high profile, I think of Gundam, Star Wars, Transformers, G.I.Joe. Robotech??? Where the F@#K are you coming from? Heck even as Macross is gaining a boatload of new fans and a new popularity in Japan, and in the U.S. I wouldn't even call it a "high profile franchise", although it's close and could be somewhat debated. That struck me, too. "High Profile Franchise." And people BELIEVE this BS...?
Einherjar Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 I also like how the last post on the thread blames the shoddiness of the toys on the fact that they're imports from Japan...Jeez, grab a clue, RT people... I don't even remember the Maia Shadow Fighter being an import. It was made in Asia per Toynami's and HG's instructions for the international market and look what happened. The guy probably wants something American made from a series that technically isn't. Borderline prejudice anyone?
Gubaba Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 I don't even remember the Maia Shadow Fighter being an import. It was made in Asia per Toynami's and HG's instructions for the international market and look what happened. The guy probably wants something American made from a series that technically isn't. Borderline prejudice anyone? Perhaps...except they're talking about the Masterpiece editions. The first guy says: kevin high profile franchise (not francihise) like Robotech?? what profile? what did they teach you in PR school? Other then a bunch of unfinish comics, and unfinish TSC, what else is there? those mastercrap, cheap copies of japanese toys that breaks??? Where are the high profile on the Screen?? To which the second guy replies: The toys were ORIGINALLY cheap and breakable in the first place, long before this website ever got ahold of them. Most of the models were made earlier, RT just reused them. I could be wrong, though. Me, I think they're ok as long as you aren't expecting something on the quality level of a Transformer, more like a Go Bot. So he COULD be blaming it on the age of the models, not the country of origin. The reference to Transformers puzzles me, though, since those are also old models from Japan.
Einherjar Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 But the Maia Shadow Fighter is from the Masterpiece Collection: http://www.amazon.com/Robotech-Masterpiece...X/dp/B001I7VHP6
Gubaba Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 But the Maia Shadow Fighter is from the Masterpiece Collection: http://www.amazon.com/Robotech-Masterpiece...X/dp/B001I7VHP6 Oh, I didn't know that. I never saw it, and just assumed it was something smaller. Doing a recall of a Masterpiece...wow, that's gotta be expensive... Did the other Alpha Fighter Masterpiece Editions have QC issues...? I mean, isn't the Shadow Fighter just an Alpha with a new paint job? I wonder what the problems with the Maia Type were...
Einherjar Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 Did the other Alpha Fighter Masterpiece Editions have QC issues...? I mean, isn't the Shadow Fighter just an Alpha with a new paint job? I wonder what the problems with the Maia Type were... Compared to the Shadow Fighter, I assume the others probably had minor issues normal with Toynami (joints, paint, accuracy, etc.). Here's a review of the Shadow Fighter: http://anymoon.com/blog/2009/02/09/toynami...nicles-version/
Jasonc Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 In regards to Kevin's post, a guy by the name of Jeebers wrote this: Where Shadow Chronicles is concerned, I want you to know that I for one understand why it is what it is: a setup for what's to come. There are some here who complain that the plot was thin, but that I think was a necessity given that all the characters from several eras had to be introduced, AND a villain had to be created for the animation to come. The more characters an author has to deal with, the thinner the personality of each must be, unless you take more time, as in a tv series. All the SC had was one movie, so there were time constraints. So, let me get this straight...fanboys are now making excuses for a crappy plot and crappy character development? I guess I shouldn't say now, cause they've been doing it for awhile, trying to appease the idiots at HG, but still. What he needs to understand is that if you sacrifice one, you expect to get expect to gain in something else. Give and get??? For a poor plot, I would've expected to at least build on character development, even if it was on pre existing characters. Sacrificing characters development, I'd expect great storyline with plenty of action/plot depth ratio. Instead, what RTSC brings is a plot that bounces around like a cheap rubber ball, with no focal point or purpose. Character-wise, it keeps, almost forces each character to have a cheap protruded character, fake and chaulk full of lines that serve no development, but try to fulfill an already empty plot. Judgine by what I've seen from early concept, and have heard during early production, all this is a big improvement from Tommy's early vision of this poor project. If it sounds like I'm picking on Tommy, or just picking on Kevin, it's not simply that. Tommy decided to take the reigns of this project, and keep it to himself, with little or no regard to common sense, let alone peers and logical numbers of fans (the latter I understand, but when the multitude speak, they may have something to say). Since this is his project, the blame needs to go to him, as well as whatever good people are able to find. As for Kevin, I get on his case here cause he really has no clue about what he sounds like, what holes he digs, and what he should know. Not to mention the fact that they both lie to a fault. PR does grant, as bad as it sounds, a leniency to blow up facts. It's not an uncommon practice. When have you ever heard a spokesman say their company wasn't doing well, but at the level they do it at, they are causing more debate and issue.
Seto Kaiba Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 Not sure. Here in the USA, a lot of people have said that they're brothers. On the other hand, in that interview Tommy did for a Chinese Robotech site, Tommy said that they're no related. For as long as I've been on Robotech.com, people there have been suggesting that Tommy was the one who got Steve the webmaster job (despite his only experience being a BA in creative writing) because they're brothers. I always see it again when I need to fall sleep fast... I've only attempted to watch it three times. Usually I stop about halfway through out of sheer boredom. So, let me get this straight...fanboys are now making excuses for a crappy plot and crappy character development? Yeah, they've been doing that ever since the movie came out. It's usually the die-hard, fanatical Robotech fans who spend their free time complaining about Macross shows they've never seen, who pop up to insist that the fact that Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles feels like an overlong game intro cutscene is actually appropriate because it's the first installment in an ongoing story. Fortunately, there are very few people who do that... Jeebers is one of them. Treiz is another.
BlackRose Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 (edited) In regards to Kevin's post, a guy by the name of Jeebers wrote this: It's Jeebers writing it, you can sum it up as sycophantic, ignorant, and usually pretty damn stupid. Jeebers is one of the foremost bullshitters on Robotech.com. He loves to bash Macross, though he admits he has only ever seen Robotech's Macross Saga and Macross Plus, the latter of which he made no effort to understand. Every time someone steps up to correct him, he runs crying to the moderators claiming that they're making fun of him. Even his grasp of Robotech is pretty shaky. He's gotten yelled at by the moderators a few times for bashing Palladium, and for flaming members who point out the flaws in his home-made D20 version of the Robotech RPG. He plays "pick and choose" with plot elements and technologies from the main story, the non-canon comics, and the McKinney novels. Edited April 26, 2009 by BlackRose
RavenHawk Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 Oh, I didn't know that. I never saw it, and just assumed it was something smaller. Doing a recall of a Masterpiece...wow, that's gotta be expensive... Did the other Alpha Fighter Masterpiece Editions have QC issues...? I mean, isn't the Shadow Fighter just an Alpha with a new paint job? I wonder what the problems with the Maia Type were... Supposedly it's the same mold as all the others, but it was made by a different manufacturer at a different factory, so their were issues with inferior plastic being used and inferior assembly, etc. For as long as I've been on Robotech.com, people there have been suggesting that Tommy was the one who got Steve the webmaster job (despite his only experience being a BA in creative writing) because they're brothers. In the interview for the Chinese Robotech website, Tommy says that Steve is not related to him. Then he says that Steve was working for Harmony Gold first, as their webmaster, and then when they were looking for more creative people (don't remember, think it was for artists, not specifically a Creative Director), Steve suggested a comic book artist that he had heard of, namely Tommy.
BlackRose Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 Supposedly it's the same mold as all the others, but it was made by a different manufacturer at a different factory, so their were issues with inferior plastic being used and inferior assembly, etc. Yeah, so many issues that Harmony Gold issued a recall for it. Not only was it manufactured from inferior materials, it had design issues (several parts from the normal Alpha MPC were used that weren't supposed to be, including the intake covers).
Einherjar Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 In the interview for the Chinese Robotech website, Tommy says that Steve is not related to him. Then he says that Steve was working for Harmony Gold first, as their webmaster, and then when they were looking for more creative people (don't remember, think it was for artists, not specifically a Creative Director), Steve suggested a comic book artist that he had heard of, namely Tommy. He worked on a couple of comics, but was Tommy well known in general or in a particular fandom for Steve to make that suggestion at the time? What made him stand out compared to others with similar histories in the business? It sounds too convenient.
Jasonc Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 In the interview for the Chinese Robotech website, Tommy says that Steve is not related to him. Then he says that Steve was working for Harmony Gold first, as their webmaster, and then when they were looking for more creative people (don't remember, think it was for artists, not specifically a Creative Director), Steve suggested a comic book artist that he had heard of, namely Tommy. They are related, end of story. It's been confirmed from too many people around Tommy, as well as from his own mouth. Why they keep it a secret is probably so that Tommy can have the illusion that he got the job on his own, and not from his BROTHER, Steve. Kinda reminds me of that Wayans Bros. sitcom with the opening song "We're Brothers, we're happy and we're singing and we're colored....give me a high 5!" Hmmm, not so much the case here.
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