Robotech and HG license debates

[Bri]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was singling you out. I wasn't.

And we know that Tatsunoko has no IP rights to Macross, and that if THEY never had the rights, they couldn't very well sell them to HG. But I think the real question isn't what rights HG has or doesn't have (which again, we can speculate about but never get confirmation on), it's how much HG thinks they can get away with. And with Warners adding their muscle to the table, HG could conceivably get away with quite a lot.

Very true, but Warners size can also be a severe disadvantage here. If Warner releases a movie with Macross elements in it, they run the risk to get sued for copyright infringement in Japan. HG can have all the licenses in the world they do not have the IP. The Tokyo court was clear in awarding those IP to BW/Nue.

The real question in this case will be what would be a copyright infringment? I am not a lawyer so can't answer that.

Suppose the Robotech movie roughly follows the Macross story but would use transformable F14s called Veritechs. They fight the T'sen-Tradi, the slave army of the Robotech masters. Would that qualify?

[Gubaba]

Very true, but Warners size can also be a severe disadvantage here. If Warner releases a movie with Macross elements in it, they run the risk to get sued for copyright infringement in Japan. HG can have all the licenses in the world they do not have the IP. The Tokyo court was clear in awarding those IP to BW/Nue.

The real question in this case will be what would be a copyright infringment? I am not a lawyer so can't answer that.

Suppose the Robotech movie roughly follows the Macross story but would use transformable F14s called Veritechs. They fight the T'sen-Tradi, the slave army of the Robotech masters. Would that qualify?

I think it would still be copyright infringement. Look at it this way: If I published a book about a little boy wizard named "Harvey Porter," Warners would pound my publishing company out of existence.

Clever re-spellings don't work, unless it's for satiric purposes.

Which, come to think of it, is one route they could go..."Our Robotech movie isn't ripping Macross off, it's a PARODY of Macross! We're being DELIBERATELY lame!"

[taksraven]

I think it would still be copyright infringement. Look at it this way: If I published a book about a little boy wizard named "Harvey Porter," Warners would pound my publishing company out of existence.

Clever re-spellings don't work, unless it's for satiric purposes.

Which, come to think of it, is one route they could go..."Our Robotech movie isn't ripping Macross off, it's a PARODY of Macross! We're being DELIBERATELY lame!"

I remember a friend telling me once about a film called Edward Penishands and that wasn't sued.

Taksraven

[yellowlightman]

Is it just me, or is anyone else getting frustrated trying to sort fact from fiction and speculation in this area? What you say seems quite correct, which flies in the face of what HG is saying happened ("No one was minding the store").

But I wonder...HG wasn't putting out the Robotech Perfect Collection; Streamline was. I wonder how much Robotech profit was going to HG, and how much was going to Streamline (and Macek)...I think that's a key question. I have no idea where to find the answer, however.

Considering the kind of Robotech products that were being released, i.e. licensed products by other companies, I would guess they were just handing out the license without giving much thought to the direction of the franchise itself. In which case, HG explanation is perfectly feasible.

[yellowlightman]

I remember a friend telling me once about a film called Edward Penishands and that wasn't sued.

Taksraven

Great post, dude.

[Gubaba]

I remember a friend telling me once about a film called Edward Penishands and that wasn't sued.

Taksraven

My point exactly. Satire is protected speech.

So all the Robotech movie people need to d is claim that they're making a parody of Macross, and then they can use any damn thing they want from the show.

[Bri]

Hmm, a Roboteh movie as a Macross parody , Edward Peninhands..a travesty . I know! The new Robotrech movie will be a Burlesque cabaret with Toby Maguire as a genderbend Minmay!

[Robelwell202]

Hmm, a Roboteh movie as a Macross parody , Edward Peninhands..a travesty . I know! The new Robotrech movie will be a Burlesque cabaret with Toby Maguire as a genderbend Minmay!

They already had a gender-bending Minmay.... It was called "Yellow Dancer"

[RavenHawk]

They already had a gender-bending Minmay.... It was called "Yellow Dancer"

Don't mock! I actually like the Michael Bradley songs better.

[Xeros]

Would be interesting that WB sues HG after the movie releasing for the IP mess xD

[Freiflug88]

I bet that the one big issue on the guys involved with the Robotech movie is this: The fact that the original Robotech series has its roots in Macross and do we A. try to stay loyal to its roots or B. Use this as opportunity to reinvent the franchise. The copyright infringements and License aren't that big of issue considering that BW would likely be willing to settle with HG and WB over any gray areas between the Robotech and Macross storyline such as the Zentradi in exchange for money. As for the licensing debate over mechanical designs just look at Michael Bay's Transformers. All of the Transformers were brand new designs so there was not one copyright issue or even a line on the credits about the original Japanese toy designs the original 80s G1 transformers were adapted from. As long the transforming jets, spaceships, and mecha in the live action are made from scratch in Lightwave or whatever as redesigns Big West can't claim copyright infringement.

The bigger issue is that HG and WB most likely want to reinvent the franchise. As Tommy Yune himself as stated WB has creative control over this movie. That means that WB gets to call the shots and they are probably going to reinvent the franchise like they did with Batman Begins and the Dark Knight which were absolute hits. The potential success of Watchmen could change things though, but that remains to be seen. WB planned to modernize Watchmen to the Iragi war etc, until Zach Synder stepped it and fought Executives to make it as loyal to the original in every way as possible. Unfortunately, since many new viewers were confused and turned off by a reinvention to cash in on new viewers is most likely going to be used. Also, if such a reinvention is different enough from Macross then Big West can not stake a claim in copyright infringement anyway.

As for the Robotech trademarks expiring in 2012, HG will no doubt renew them as Robotech is no doubt there tentpole franchise. I am hoping the movie will come out in 2010 though to be in time with Robotech's 25th anniversary.

Edited March 26, 2009 by Freiflug88

[Bri]

I bet that the one big issue on the guys involved with the Robotech movie is this: The fact that the original Robotech series has its roots in Macross and do we A. try to stay loyal to its roots or B. Use this as opportunity to reinvent the franchise. The copyright infringements and License aren't that big of issue considering that BW would likely be willing to settle with HG and WB over any gray areas between the Robotech and Macross storyline such as the Zentradi in exchange for money. As for the licensing debate over mechanical designs just look at Michael Bay's Transformers. All of the Transformers were brand new designs so there was not one copyright issue or even a line on the credits about the original Japanese toy designs the original 80s G1 transformers were adapted from. As long the transforming jets, spaceships, and mecha in the live action are made from scratch in Lightwave or whatever as redesigns Big West can't claim copyright infringement.

Transformers has no copyright issues and Hasbro has a strong relationship with Takara-Tomy. In comparison BW and HG are not on good terms. BW/Nue has the copyright so HG can't make any movie or animation derivatives of Macross without their consent. Robotech is a pure HG property they can do with it as they please as long as they dont infringe on the Macross copyright. Question is how close can the movie resemble the Macross story without breaking that copyright.

As for the Robotech trademarks expiring in 2012, HG will no doubt renew them as Robotech is no doubt there tentpole franchise. I am hoping the movie will come out in 2010 though to be in time with Robotech's 25th anniversary.

It's the Macross trademarks expiring, not the Robotech ones. It is that trademark that keeps any Macross derivatives and related Merchandise (eg everything but SDFM) off the US market. Plus and Macross II were already released before HG secured the trademark. (HG has the merchandising rights to SDFM).

Edited March 26, 2009 by Bri

[Freiflug88]

Transformers has no copyright issues and Hasbro has a strong relationship with Takara-Tomy. In comparison BW and HG are not on good terms.

True, Transformer did not have copyright issues, but I was pointing out the fact that if the mechanical designs are made from scratch which they no doubt will be then there will be no issue with the copyrights over the Macross mechanical designs.

As for BW and HG not being on good terms that is mostly speculation. The reason why more Marcoss stuff has not been released stateside has nothing to do with disagreements with HG. The issue is that the rights to the music often make it too costly to license. With anime sales as marginal as it is no company is willing to invest in obtaining the expensive episode and music rights for a Macross series when countless fansubs have spread across to fans for years. ADV acquired the original Macross as part of their plan to release anime classics that are cheaper to buy and aren't as widely pirated as a recent series. Macross Frontier will no doubt suffer this problem as its episodes and music albums have topped the charts meaning that MF will be much more expensive to license then Code Geasse which is just about as popular, but is not nearly as music focused as Macross Frontier.

It's the Macross trademarks expiring, not the Robotech ones.

My bad for labeling it the Robotech trademark. The trademark is actually just for "Macross" as in just the name Macross since Harmony Gold did not actually create Macross as we all know. So for instance Macross Frontier could be edited so that it has no mention of Macross and marketed in the US without paying HG, but that is unlikely to happen.

[Gubaba]

As for BW and HG not being on good terms that is mostly speculation. The reason why more Marcoss stuff has not been released stateside has nothing to do with disagreements with HG. The issue is that the rights to the music often make it too costly to license. With anime sales as marginal as it is no company is willing to invest in obtaining the expensive episode and music rights for a Macross series when countless fansubs have spread across to fans for years. ADV acquired the original Macross as part of their plan to release anime classics that are cheaper to buy and aren't as widely pirated as a recent series. Macross Frontier will no doubt suffer this problem as its episodes and music albums have topped the charts meaning that MF will be much more expensive to license then Code Geasse which is just about as popular, but is not nearly as music focused as Macross Frontier.

I should really stay away from this thread, since speculation presented as fact drives me crazy.

Thirteen or so years ago, someone from some U.S. anime company said that the music rights for Macross 7 made that show prohibitively expensive. Recently, Keith got an email from Bandai suggesting the same thing for Frontier.

As far as I know, no one has said that about, say, Zero. And no one has said whether the music from Macross 7 is STILL expensive (pop music has a pretty short shelf-life, after all).

[Freiflug88]

Obviously Zero was not that big into music, but I think the problems is that when the OVAs were being released annually around 2001-2003 the legal dispute between BW and Tatsunko over derivative rights was still going on in court. By the time Japanese Supreme Court got the case and cleared up the derivative rights there probably just wasn't that big of an incentive to acquire Macross Zero for the states considering many fans already complained that it was bad after watching the fansubs. Also there was the fact that until recently the original Macross was not available in the states so it would be hard to market a five episode prequel for a series that was never shown officially in the states. Now that ADV has marketed "Macross as being the series that formed the core of Robotech," releasing Zero might be a remote possibility. According to Macross Zero's Wiki though Legal issuses are still cited, but Tommy Yune is quoted as saying HG would be "willing to let the deal go through" for a possible release by A.D. Vision.

As for the music rights of Macross 7 I heard that the major concern wasn't just the "cost per song" in each episode, but the fact that no one individual company or artist owns all the music license. So who ever licenses Macross 7 would have to track down and workout a deal with each individual license holder.

Edited March 27, 2009 by Freiflug88

[TheLoneWolf]

As far as I know, no one has said that about, say, Zero.

That's because no one in their right mind would be willing to pay $$$ to license Zero stateside.

[Gubaba]

Also there was the fact that until recently the original Macross was not available in the states so it would be hard to market a five episode prequel for a series that was never shown officially in the states. Now that ADV has marketed "Macross as being the series that formed the core of Robotech," releasing Zero might be a remote possibility. According to Macross Zero's Wiki though Legal issuses are still cited, but Tommy Yune is quoted as saying HG would be "willing to let the deal go through" for a possible release by A.D. Vision.

Hmmm...The lack of an official release of SDFM didn't stop MII and M+ coming through (to be fair, the "Robotech Perfect Collection" was being released at that time, though).

Besides, SDFM came out in the U.S. in 1999. Zero didn't start until 2002.

That's because no one in their right mind would be willing to pay $$$ to license Zero stateside.

Oh, c'mon...the advertising would've been great:

"From the makers of Macross Plus and Escaflowne! Don't let the shitty ending and half-assed love triangle put you off...there's lots of pretty, pretty variable fighters kicking the ever-livin' stuffing out of each other in EVERY ACTION-PACKED EPISODE!"

It'd sell like hotcakes, I'm tellin' ya.

(And for the record, I do think the battle sequences in Macross Zero are the best Itano's ever done...and I even liked the ending, in an early '60s avant garde sort of way.)

[Freiflug88]

"From the makers of Macross Plus and Escaflowne! Don't let the shitty ending and half-assed love triangle put you off...there's lots of pretty, pretty variable fighters kicking the ever-livin' stuffing out of each other in EVERY ACTION-PACKED EPISODE!"

LMAO! Don't forget that its from the makers of Aquarian as well! You can never forget that show its just simply... orgasmic!

That would be a funny ad indeed. The bit about the pretty VFs reminds of when I was at Media Play and some guys saw Macross Plus on the shelves and one yelled "Hey this movie is a complete ripoff of the variable fighters from Robotech BattleCry!" I couldn't help, but explain that it was the other way around after I LMAO.

(And for the record, I do think the battle sequences in Macross Zero are the best Itano's ever done...and I even liked the ending, in an early '60s avant garde sort of way.)

I personally loved Zero, but I know alot who don't. The battles and Itano's were good, but it did suffer visually some what in that the CG really stuck out because it wasn't cell shaded. The thing about it was that the final episode really felt rushed and I wished it was longer plus Zero just didn't really ever have that Macross feeling to me.

Hmmm...The lack of an official release of SDFM didn't stop MII and M+ coming through (to be fair, the "Robotech Perfect Collection" was being released at that time, though).

BW originally planed to released M+ only in Japan, but after they showed it at an International Filmfest (the Cannes I believe) there were countless pleas by people in the industry and fans in general for an international release so they figured why not release it abroad. This was also at the right time too, when news traveled fast online, but before fansubs and pirating movies online became popular with broadband.

Now MII believe it or not was subsidized by Manga Entertainment after its budget ran out. In exchange for enough money to quickly wrap the series up Manga of course was given the rights for MII overseas. I think that they just bought into Tatsunko claims that it would be better then the original series and so Manga ended up buying the rights before the show was even finished produced so of course they were going to market it as much as possible.

Besides, SDFM came out in the U.S. in 1999. Zero didn't start until 2002.

SDFM in 1999? That had to have been the Animego release which was pulled by Harmony Gold after they trademarked "Macross." The Animego dvds were then sold only through Robotech.com. Considering that they are still for sale on the site (hoping to order some myself sometime) and that the page they are sold on is practically hidden in the tiny "click here for subbed anime" text I would say that not too many were sold. Sadly it wasn't until the 2006 ADV release that a true mainstream sold everywhere release of Macross was available.

Edited March 27, 2009 by Freiflug88

[edwin3060]

Actually, if we are talking about a Macross or Macross-like live action movie, we already have one--- the 2005 movie Stealth. The director himself stated that he was inspired by Macross, and the action sequences clearly show it-- we have the whole Isamu diving into the city and pulling up sequence from MacPlus, the congo-line in the clouds sequence from Macross 0, the exploding refueling aircraft from Macross 0, the crazy UAV with bioneural networks from Macross Plus, the cobra stall maneuver sequence from Macross 0 etc... coupled with a piss-poor Hollywood plot. The film bombed at the box office, making only 76 million for a production that cost 138 million.

Would WB really want to take the risk of producing another bomb? Unless the plot is really compelling I could really see the live-action Robotech movie crash and burn.

[Bri]

As for BW and HG not being on good terms that is mostly speculation. The reason why more Marcoss stuff has not been released stateside has nothing to do with disagreements with HG. The issue is that the rights to the music often make it too costly to license. With anime sales as marginal as it is no company is willing to invest in obtaining the expensive episode and music rights for a Macross series when countless fansubs have spread across to fans for years. ADV acquired the original Macross as part of their plan to release anime classics that are cheaper to buy and aren't as widely pirated as a recent series. Macross Frontier will no doubt suffer this problem as its episodes and music albums have topped the charts meaning that MF will be much more expensive to license then Code Geasse which is just about as popular, but is not nearly as music focused as Macross Frontier.

SDFM in 1999? That had to have been the Animeigo release which was pulled by Harmony Gold after they trademarked "Macross." The Animego dvds were then sold only through Robotech.com. Considering that they are still for sale on the site (hoping to order some myself sometime) and that the page they are sold on is practically hidden in the tiny "click here for subbed anime" text I would say that not too many were sold. Sadly it wasn't until the 2006 ADV release that a true mainstream sold everywhere release of Macross was available.

You are contradicting yourself here. You state Macross stuff not being released with Macross has nothing to do with HG while a few posts further Animeigos Macross gets pulled due to HG exercising the trademark. There is more to Macross then just animation. The whole fight started on merchandise of the Macross derivatives. HG started sending threats to importers of Macross products like the YF-19 toys. While the animation may not have come over due to expensive licensing, no merchandise can be legaly distributed either.

As for BW and HG not being on good terms. It has been confirmed on more then one occasion. For example Tokyopop trying to publish Macross 7 trash but BW pulls license when the publisher asks HG permission. Yune stated that they would allow Frontier in the US but they do want to get payed for their trademark, blaming it all on the uncooperative attitude of one Japanse company. These are not the actions of companies in a friendly relationship. Yes, there is no offical declaration of war, but that doesn't mean everything is peachy.

The results of the lawsuit made it clear in hindsight that HG was never in a position to block any Macross derivatives. Hence the distraction part on HG side in the nineties is irrelevant. The grasp of HG currently on Macross lies with purely with the trademark. If that drops then HG has no influence on anything Macross except SDFM.

Edited March 27, 2009 by Bri

[Gubaba]

I personally loved Zero, but I know alot who don't. The battles and Itano's were good, but it did suffer visually some what in that the CG really stuck out because it wasn't cell shaded. The thing about it was that the final episode really felt rushed and I wished it was longer plus Zero just didn't really ever have that Macross feeling to me.

Can't argue with you there...

BW originally planed to released M+ only in Japan, but after they showed it at an International Filmfest (the Cannes I believe) there were countless pleas by people in the industry and fans in general for an international release so they figured why not release it abroad. This was also at the right time too, when news traveled fast online, but before fansubs and pirating movies online became popular with broadband.

Don't they plan almost EVERYTHING to be Japan-only at first...? And it was 1994...NOTHING traveled fast online.

Now MII believe it or not was subsidized by Manga Entertainment after its budget ran out. In exchange for enough money to quickly wrap the series up Manga of course was given the rights for MII overseas. I think that they just bought into Tatsunko claims that it would be better then the original series and so Manga ended up buying the rights before the show was even finished produced so of course they were going to market it as much as possible.

Okay, this just HAS to be wrong, since MII was originally put out in the western world by U.S. Renditions, and Manga only nabbed it with Renditions went out of business, and Manga bought all their assets.

SDFM in 1999? That had to have been the Animego release which was pulled by Harmony Gold after they trademarked "Macross." The Animego dvds were then sold only through Robotech.com. Considering that they are still for sale on the site (hoping to order some myself sometime) and that the page they are sold on is practically hidden in the tiny "click here for subbed anime" text I would say that not too many were sold. Sadly it wasn't until the 2006 ADV release that a true mainstream sold everywhere release of Macross was available.

They were not "pulled" by HG, HG simply gave them the license for (I believe) five years and then didn't renew it. believe me...those Animeigo DVDs were THE big news at the time among old-school anime fans. I don't have sales figures, but I bet that they sold more than ADV did.

As for BW and HG not being on good terms. It has been confirmed on more then one occasion. For example Tokyopop trying to publish Macross 7 trash but BW pulls license when the publisher asks HG permission. Yune stated that they would allow Frontier in the US but they do want to get payed for their trademark, blaming it all on the uncooperative attitude of one Japanse company. These are not the actions of companies in a friendly relationship. Yes, there is no offical declaration of war, but that doesn't mean everything is peachy.

With Macross 7 Trash, AFAIK, you can only guess as to why it didn't go through....or was it actually confirmed that BW pulled out because of HG...?

[TheLoneWolf]

Now MII believe it or not was subsidized by Manga Entertainment after its budget ran out. In exchange for enough money to quickly wrap the series up Manga of course was given the rights for MII overseas.

Except that Manga Entertainment didn't even exist when Macross II was released in '92.

(And for the record, I do think the battle sequences in Macross Zero are the best Itano's ever done...and I even liked the ending, in an early '60s avant garde sort of way.)

I agree, I loved the action scenes and music, but the plot was weak and occassionally bordered on the absurd (and I'm not talking about the ending either).

[Bri]

With Macross 7 Trash, AFAIK, you can only guess as to why it didn't go through....or was it actually confirmed that BW pulled out because of HG...?

I thought it was...but then I checked the references. It was first mentioned by Ewilen on this board as part of a modus operandi of BW to block any deals between their US based licensees and HG to prevent acknowledging any rights of HG to the Macross derivatives like what happened to Toycom. Ewilens post

Later JBO referenced to it in a recap. Found a mention on ANN that HG in cooperation with Tokyopop would release Macross 7 trash but that licensing issues prevented it.

So again no hard fact *sigh*

I read the whole HG license thread today (waiting at home for a repair guy) and just ouch... so much uncertainties. I understand now why people get so frustrated on this issue.

[Freiflug88]

Okay, this just HAS to be wrong, since MII was originally put out in the western world by U.S. Renditions, and Manga only nabbed it with Renditions went out of business, and Manga bought all their assets.

My mistake. I remembered hearing on the Destroy All Podcasts DX for Macross II that MII was subsized by a US company and assumed it to be Manga Entertainment considering they market MII and M+.

It has been confirmed on more then one occasion. For example Tokyopop trying to publish Macross 7 trash but BW pulls license when the publisher asks HG permission. Yune stated that they would allow Frontier in the US but they do want to get payed for their trademark

I never heard about the Macross 7 trash case and yes the the fact that HG wants money for their trademark doesn't help distributors one bit. Of course companies will do everything they can to make a buck at the expense of being an absolute a$@. Just look at the lawsuit over Watchmen though. Fox's goal was never to take a dump on fans by denying them a Watchmen movie, they just wanted a piece of the pie like HG. Its just another cost of doing business that companies don't want to deal with so they go to franchises like Gundam that has fewer legal hassles to deal with.

Personally though I would rather see BW and other anime companies ban together and take HG down in US Court. The more I hear about HG actions the more I realized that they are like Minmay, a whiny spoiled brat just begging for a big slap in the face. I am tempted to try praying to Alan Moore's snake god Glycon to put a curse upon HG. Anyone want to join me in putting a curse upon HG?

Edited March 27, 2009 by Freiflug88

[Einherjar]

They're doing a fine job screwing themselves with their 80's business strategy. They don't need our help.

[TheLoneWolf]

My mistake. I remembered hearing on the Destroy All Podcasts DX for Macross II that MII was subsized by a US company and assumed it to be Manga Entertainment considering they market MII and M+.

I had heard something similar, but I've never seen anyone provide a verifiable source. It's always the "I heard it on the Internet, so it must be true" explanation. Until someone discloses a verifiable source (not Destroy All Podcasts), it's nothing more than a fanboy rumor to me.

[Roy Focker]

You're all a bunch of poopy face haters. Give it up. Robotech is here to stay.

I love you Tobey!

[taksraven]

You're all a bunch of poopy face haters. Give it up. Robotech is here to stay.

I love you Tobey!

[Macross007]

They're doing a fine job screwing themselves with their 80's business strategy. They don't need our help.

Business strategy !?!?!? You mean doing nothing else than masturbating, right ?

Edited March 28, 2009 by Macross007

[Macross007]

That's Tobey's reaction after discovering he is working with dumbasses with nothing else to do than masturbating.

[Gui]

I thought it was...but then I checked the references. It was first mentioned by Ewilen on this board as part of a modus operandi of BW to block any deals between their US based licensees and HG to prevent acknowledging any rights of HG to the Macross derivatives like what happened to Toycom. Ewilens post

Later JBO referenced to it in a recap. Found a mention on ANN that HG in cooperation with Tokyopop would release Macross 7 trash but that licensing issues prevented it.

So again no hard fact *sigh*

[...]

One hard fact I can give you, and I already mentionned it pages ago in this thread (it was 3 or 4 years ago though, so many of you may not have read it...), well, there's no reference at all to HG in the french edition of M7 Trash by Glénat (which is not exactly a small publisher in Euro, actually it's one of the biggest comics editor around): I own every volume and none of them have HG written anywhere

It seems to me that these so-called worldwide rights actually are limited to the US...

[sketchley]

(...)

It seems to me that these so-called worldwide rights actually are limited to the US...

Not necessarily. Macross 7 is outside of the scope of their agreement (SDF:M only).

[VF5SS]

I had heard something similar, but I've never seen anyone provide a verifiable source. It's always the "I heard it on the Internet, so it must be true" explanation. Until someone discloses a verifiable source (not Destroy All Podcasts), it's nothing more than a fanboy rumor to me.

We never made that claim. We only questioned if it was scheduled for six episodes because the last episode had really poor animation quality.

[Bri]

One hard fact I can give you, and I already mentionned it pages ago in this thread (it was 3 or 4 years ago though, so many of you may not have read it...), well, there's no reference at all to HG in the french edition of M7 Trash by Glénat (which is not exactly a small publisher in Euro, actually it's one of the biggest comics editor around): I own every volume and none of them have HG written anywhere

It seems to me that these so-called worldwide rights actually are limited to the US...

It does seem very likely that it was HG involvement that got the US vrsion cancelled but there is no confirmation. Just in the interest of confirming facts.

What is very interesting though is that Glenat (and possebly Pannini/Planet Manga for the German edition) seem to ignore Harmony Golds Macross trademark on comics/magazines etc. in Germany and France. Wouldn't surprise me if they didn't even know about it or care even less.

[Freiflug88]

You're all a bunch of poopy face haters. Give it up. Robotech is here to stay.

I love you Tobey!

You miss understand. Its not that we hate Robotech at all and many of us such as myself enjoy both Macross and Robotech. What we hate is the fact that we cannot buy beloved Macross stuff right here in America. Robotech stuff is easy to buy so why shouldn't Macross be easy to buy in America as well? I for one want to be able to drive to a local Target and find Macross stuff to buy and for the cash I spent to help finance the great guys at BW who created Macross while the Robotech stuff rots on the shelves with there little gold HG stickers.

Yes, Harmony Gold gave us Robotech, but in the end it was just 3 series produced by Tatsunko edited together, yet somehow HG feels they should be credited for creating some brand new epic franchise. What if I took Indiana Jones and Star Wars and edited them together to create an epic mini-series for another Country, lets say Germany? Start with Inidana Jones saga then add a time jump and suddenly you have a saga focusing on Jone's distant ancestor Han Jones. Since they are both done by Harrison Ford and I have all these great ads about how "Ripoff Wars" is this huge multi-generational epic the stupid audience will play right along right? After I trademark 'Ripoff Wars: the Star Wars Saga" and deny any new Stars Wars stuff into the country, I should have Star Wars fans excited over the cheap knock-offs I market? Give me a break.

Since, HG loves to rip-off the Japanese for their Robotech franchise they should go ahead and "follow the Japanese model and come before the American people and take that deep bow and say I’m sorry, and then either do one of two things — resign, or go commit suicide” next to AIG executives.