Robotech and HG license debates

[Gubaba]

I think intellectual property laws and their enforcement (in regard to such things as what HG was trying to do with the Sentinels) was still very murky waters at the time. HG seemed to sense there were potential legal issues so they were doing redesigns already in an effort to avoid any potential mess. After the advent of the Internet intellectual property laws have definitely become better understood/fleshed out and HG now seems to understand that they need to steer very clear of anything that was in the original works (barring some miraculous rights change brought on by WB or something).

I may be wrong, but I had always heard that the Sentinels designs were different so Tatsunoko could release the show in Japan as a separate work.

Seems a little far-fetched, considering the poor quality of the animation (fragile panther-bots, I'm a-lookin' at YOU!), but you never know.

[jenius]

That certainly seems plausible... and it would have been very interesting for HG to somehow get Japanese rights to a show and then license it's odd adapted sequel back to a Japanese company. I thought that's what we were going to see with Shadow Chronicles and Mospeada II (glad we didn't). Robotech Art or something like that probably has an article about why the mechs were adapted but they don't seem like they were adapted enough to really come off as unique. Then again, this was the era of Space Gandam.

[JB0]

The Regults seen in the Sentinels look considerably different then the ones you see in Macross. They almost look like a new mecha.

Huh. Guess I'll have to dig that old VHS out again.

Taped it off teh air way back in the day. Think I stil have the tape.

[Roger]

This was the Regult-oid pod from the simulator:

http://www.robotechresearch.com/rpg/mecha/REF/z1/Z1.html

There was also a Glaug-y one that was designed, but never animated:

http://www.robotechresearch.com/rpg/mecha/REF/z2/Z2.html

I saw Tony Oliver at a Creation con in the 80s while Sentinels was being made, he said something to the effect that there was a conscious effort at Tatsunoko to make the characters look different from the Macross versions. Perhaps even back then Tatsunoko was being cautious given the provenance of the Macross property. On the other hand, the Southern Cross and MOSPEADA characters remained unchanged.

I seem to remember that Carl Macek accused Tatsunoko of working harder on the scenes that didn't have the Macross characters in one of the Robotech Art books. Maybe they did plan on repurposing the animation for something to be released in Japan. A Zillion prequel?

At one point, some of the character designs were going to be ported directly from other productions into Sentinels. There is a character chart of the Megazone 23 characters in Sentinels uniforms, and I could be misremembering but I believe there is another one of the "elfin" DYRL-style Macross designs in Sentinels uniforms.

[JB0]

This was the Regult-oid pod from the simulator:

http://www.robotechresearch.com/rpg/mecha/REF/z1/Z1.html

There was also a Glaug-y one that was designed, but never animated:

http://www.robotechresearch.com/rpg/mecha/...uoteEEnd-->

Ah.

...

The Glaug actually looks pretty sweet.

I seem to remember that Carl Macek accused Tatsunoko of working harder on the scenes that didn't have the Macross characters in one of the Robotech Art books. Maybe they did plan on repurposing the animation for something to be released in Japan. A Zillion prequel?

Zillion! It's better than Lazer Tag!

Edited December 18, 2008 by JB0

[TheLoneWolf]

I may be wrong, but I had always heard that the Sentinels designs were different so Tatsunoko could release the show in Japan as a separate work.

In Robotech Art 3, Carl Macek wrote that Tatsunoko requested that the Macross characters physical appearances be changed so that no one in Japan would confuse The Sentinels as a sequel to SDF Macross (hence Breetai's facemask). He also wrote that he had a hunch that Tatsunoko wanted to recycle the animation for another anime project since Tatsunoko didn't want to introduce the returning Macross characters until later on in the series, and that it seemed they spent more attention to detail on animation that didn't involve the Macross characters. He wrote that this was just his personal theory, he never had any solid evidence.

[VFTF1]

I remember reading that. It just goes to show that Carl Macek is as much of a conspiracy buff as some of us on this board (me I guess).

Anyways, I had hoped to make a point using Mustard as an analgoy to something, but this thread seems to have lost its' earlier energy and decended into decency reasonable lines of argumentation.

Boring!

Pete

[Vostok 7]

I remember reading that. It just goes to show that Carl Macek is as much of a conspiracy buff as some of us on this board (me I guess).

Anyways, I had hoped to make a point using Mustard as an analgoy to something, but this thread seems to have lost its' earlier energy and decended into decency reasonable lines of argumentation.

Boring!

Pete

Here:

TOYNAZI AND WHOREMONEY GOLD!

There, that should do it! You're welcome.

Vostok 7

[Roger]

Don't forget the...

[AcroRay]

"I like jam."

Vince - er - AcroRay

[taksraven]

It seems like your observation about the Invid fails to consider several points. First, the Invid are pretty prominently placed in the Shadow Chronicles. Second, every "generation" of Robotech has a new enemy. Third, the Haydonites were shaped up to be the next enemy way back in the Sentinels days. Fourth, it's wouldn't make sense for any Macross or Masters enemies to return as their chapters are pretty nicely concluded by the generations they appeared in. Fifth, the lack of reference to previous alien species is evidence of the very rulings referenced here, mainly that HG has no intellectual property rights and can thus NOT use anything from Macross in an HG original production.

Their legal claims are no longer dubious. Their legal claims WERE dubious when they claimed to have rights to EVERYTHING Macross related. Since then it has been established that they have the international rights to the original show and its merchandising rights and NOTHING beyond that.

Do I sound like a broken record yet?

If I told you what you sounded like I would probably be banned from MW.

Taksraven

[jenius]

Sounds like you need a good "TOYNAZI" and "WHOREMONEY GOLD!" moment.

[Vostok 7]

If I told you what you sounded like I would probably be banned from MW.

Taksraven

Oh snap girlfriend!

Vostok 7

[David Hingtgen]

God I hate it when HG starts acting up again---mainly because we mods have to read through all the name-calling and flaming on the boards...

[AcroRay]

With great power comes great responsibility!

[Mr March]

"Woohoo! We just had a near-life experience!"

[taksraven]

God I hate it when HG starts acting up again---mainly because we mods have to read through all the name-calling and flaming on the boards...

Sorry to all mods. The truth of it all is that none of us have a life and as a result we have to vent in stupid ways.

Taksraven

[VFTF1]

God I hate it when HG starts acting up again---mainly because we mods have to read through all the name-calling and flaming on the boards...

So far I haven't noticed any flaming or name calling, except for those dumb stupid girly-men who don't agree with me and their ugly mugly fuggly girly-man friends. Anybudy got sumtin' ta say about it? *

Pete

*Being Sarcastic of course

[Gubaba]

So far I haven't noticed any flaming or name calling, except for those dumb stupid girly-men who don't agree with me and their ugly mugly fuggly girly-man friends. Anybudy got sumtin' ta say about it? *

Pete

*Being Sarcastic of course

Quit channelling Agent ONE, you Basara-lover!

[Excillon]

You know, the funny thing is if RT wasn't blocking Macross, no one would care that RT or Carl Macek even exsisted.

[Macross007]

You know, the funny thing is if RT wasn't blocking Macross, no one would care that RT or Carl Macek even exsisted.

Yeah, he will be eating his own poo to survive.

[Xeros]

That's a good idea. Here's the e-mail I just sent to them:

Greetings Big Bad Toy Store Staff and Management-

I am writing to you today to express my concern and dissatisfaction in regards to your recent decision to stop selling Yamato-manufactured Macross products at the behest of Toynami's request and/or threat.

As we have all learned through years of legalese and threats, Harmony Gold has yet to provide legal proof to their claim of ownership of the Macross franchise (a claim that has varied wildly from "worldwide rights [outside of Japan], to North American distro rights, and anywhere in between). In 2002, Harmony Gold made a similar attempt to prevent small online retailers from selling imported Macross merchandise based on the same claim. When some of those retailers obtained legal representation, Harmony Gold dropped any further attempts to enforce their claim. At the time, and since, representatives from Harmony Gold have provided, at times, wild and outlandish statements meant to back up their claim of Macross rights

Now, however, you are allowing a company to dictate what product you sell. While it may be true that Toynami products (of all brands) may sell more than the Yamato Macross products, your capitulation in this case has lost one infrequent (yet loyal) customer. Until such a time as you deny a company to dictate which products you sell, I will look elsewhere for the products that I used to purchase from BBTS.

Thank you for your time,

Jeff Sorley

In a world where money talks, this is the most rational thing to do

I still want to throw a DE on HG HQ xD

Still, the issue here is not the licences thing and conspiracy plots. Even here at Chile when a company request and/or threat another for sell his products in detriment of other one that company gets sued for a big bunch of money

[taksraven]

Yeah, he will be eating his own poo to survive.

BAM!!!!

Feel that, we just hit a new low.

Taksraven

[VFTF1]

You know, the funny thing is if RT wasn't blocking Macross, no one would care that RT or Carl Macek even exsisted.

Actually - I think this is true.

Seriously and with all our personal biases aside:

Have you ever met ANYONE who has watched and read and followed all of Robotech and, upon watching the original japanese Macross and then all of the other Macross series has actually said "this sucks! Robotech is better" ?

I haven't. But then again - on the other hand the robotech forum is alive and well, so I guess there are people who prefer it... still - it's just hard to concieve...

But still - if there were out and out competition then I think hands down Macross would survive on its' own and possibly surpass RT.

Pete

[Gubaba]

Actually - I think this is true.

Seriously and with all our personal biases aside:

Have you ever met ANYONE who has watched and read and followed all of Robotech and, upon watching the original japanese Macross and then all of the other Macross series has actually said "this sucks! Robotech is better" ?

VFTF1, meet Doug Bendo:

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkC...amp;pageSize=15

Check out epsiode 1. If you still want more, go a page or two forward and listen to his "responts" to Destroy All Podcasts DX.

And most importantly, HAVE FUN!

[VFTF1]

VFTF1, meet Doug Bendo:

Silly Gubaba! Tricks are for---I mean...silly Gubaba; I have known of the existence of Doug Bandon since at least two weeks ago from a previous thread on Macross world

As for that website...it won't open for me... guess there must be some wicked cool stuff there that I'm just not going to have the good fortune of ever discovering

(still waiting for the website to open...and will certainly write some long winded comment on it as sooon as it does)....

that's it...I give up It won't open for me

What does he say? Is there a transcript anywhere?

Pete

[Totoro242]

VFTF1, meet Doug Bendo:

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkC...amp;pageSize=15

Check out epsiode 1. If you still want more, go a page or two forward and listen to his "responts" to Destroy All Podcasts DX.

And most importantly, HAVE FUN!

To be fair, most Robotech fans think Doug Bendover is nuts.

[Vostok 7]

Actually - I think this is true.

Seriously and with all our personal biases aside:

Have you ever met ANYONE who has watched and read and followed all of Robotech and, upon watching the original japanese Macross and then all of the other Macross series has actually said "this sucks! Robotech is better" ?

Pete

No, there are definitely people who've watched the Japanese Macross and still think Robotech is better. Lots of them, in fact. The aforementioned Doug Bendo is one.

In fact, there are people who swear Robotech was the original (usually the books are cited) and Macross is just a cheap Asian copy with a simplified plot line.

There are a LOT of clueless people out there, don't fool yourself.

But I do agree, had Carl Macek and HG not gotten a bee up their collective butt about Yamato attempting to sell Mac+ Valks in the US so many years ago, most of the people here would not have such a negative opinion of them. Indeed, before then there were a lot of cross fans. It was that event that was sort of a watershed for the community. It was further cemented by HG's (and Toynami's) handling of various things (most recently BBTS). Fact is, had they either supported Yamato's efforts in the US or just totally ignored it, people would not be so vehemently against HG and Toynami. Essentially, it was them that brought this upon themselves.

Vostok 7

Edited December 21, 2008 by Vostok 7

[Einherjar]

VFTF1, meet Doug Bendo:

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkC...amp;pageSize=15

Check out epsiode 1. If you still want more, go a page or two forward and listen to his "responts" to Destroy All Podcasts DX.

And most importantly, HAVE FUN!

He's the only person still podcasting about Robotech at the moment. However, he diverges into repetitive, hate filled shows most of the time contrasting Robotech with other franchises and issues with the current leadership at HG. Surprisingly, there are some people who are happy with that.

[Gubaba]

No, there are definitely people who've watched the Japanese Macross and still think Robotech is better. Lots of them, in fact. The aforementioned Doug Bendo is one.

In fact, there are people who swear Robotech was the original (usually the books are cited) and Macross is just a cheap Asian copy with a simplified plot line.

There are a LOT of clueless people out there, don't fool yourself.

But I do agree, had Carl Macek and HG not gotten a bee up their collective butt about Yamato attempting to sell Mac+ Valks in the US so many years ago, most of the people here would not have such a negative opinion of them. Indeed, before then there were a lot of cross fans. It was that event that was sort of a watershed for the community. It was further cemented by HG's (and Toynami's) handling of various things (most recently BBTS). Fact is, had they either supported Yamato's efforts in the US or just totally ignored it, people would not be so vehemently against HG and Toynami. Essentially, it was them that brought this upon themselves.

Vostok 7

Sorry...just a quick correction: Carl Macek had NOTHING to do with Harmony Gold by the time the Yamato fiasco went down. While he made a lot of decisions that are easy for us to dislike, Harmony Gold's legal thuggery isn't one of them.

Tommy Yune, on the other hand...

[Vostok 7]

Sorry...just a quick correction: Carl Macek had NOTHING to do with Harmony Gold by the time the Yamato fiasco went down. While he made a lot of decisions that are easy for us to dislike, Harmony Gold's legal thuggery isn't one of them.

Tommy Yune, on the other hand...

Ah, yes, Tommy Yune. I remember now.

Vostok 7

[Roger]

Sorry...just a quick correction: Carl Macek had NOTHING to do with Harmony Gold by the time the Yamato fiasco went down. While he made a lot of decisions that are easy for us to dislike, Harmony Gold's legal thuggery isn't one of them.

Tommy Yune, on the other hand...

Why would Tommy be responsible? He's not part of HG's legal department. If you're going to indict him, then you'd have to add Tom Bateman and Kevin McKeever to that list.

[Gubaba]

Why would Tommy be responsible? He's not part of HG's legal department. If you're going to indict him, then you'd have to add Tom Bateman and Kevin McKeever to that list.

His hand is on the wheel, isn't it? I would imagine that the legal department needs at least to inform him of what they're doing, if not actually ask his permission to go ahead with something.

Or does the buck stop with Frank Agrama?

Edited December 21, 2008 by Gubaba

[VFTF1]

QUOTE (Roger @ Dec 21 2008, 05:02 PM) *

Why would Tommy be responsible? He's not part of HG's legal department. If you're going to indict him, then you'd have to add Tom Bateman and Kevin McKeever to that list.

His hand is on the wheel, isn't it? I would imagine that the legal department needs at last to inform him of what they're doing, if not actually ask his permission to go ahead with something.

Or does the buck stop with Frank Agrama?

Hey you, you leave Gubaba alone cause Gubaba is my friend and I'm gonna tell on you if you don't so there.

Pete*

*just in case: I am, once again, being sarcastic*

[Roger]

His hand is on the wheel, isn't it? I would imagine that the legal department needs at least to inform him of what they're doing, if not actually ask his permission to go ahead with something.

I don't believe any of those three had that kind of decision making ability, if it rested with anyone it was with their boss (who I believe was Alan Letz at that point), or his boss, Frank Agrama. JasonC could probably weigh in with his perspective.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Roger