Robotech and HG license debates

[danth]

Everyone's bought different parts of the dead companies, and multiple companies THINK they got the DYRL rights.

If I recall, the big issue is that 3 different companies think they bought CHE's license.

Ah. That does complicate things. Well, I guess I can always get the r2 if I'm desperate.

Thanks for all the info!

[buddhafabio]

Ask and ye shall receive:

On January 15, 1984, Tatsunoko granted plaintiff Harmony Gold U.S.A., Inc. ("Harmony Gold") a license to market all products in the United States based on the Macross designs except for Japanese plastic model kits. Harmony Gold subsequently acquired co-ownership of the copyrights in both the original Macross designs and any derivative works. Harmony Gold has incorporated the Macross designs into an animated television series entitled "Robotech." Additionally, Harmony Gold has marketed, through its sublicensees, a broad array of "Robotech" products including publications, actions figures and toys.

Harmony Gold, U.S.A., Inc. v. FASA Corp., 1996 WL 332689 (N.D. Ill. 1996). It's not a formal finding of fact, but should answer your question.

And I still say, for the record, that we still don't know if it's Big West causing the problems. It could be HG wants $5 per item and its name on the box, and that's it. Big West could simply be balking at giving HG anything. We don't know and nobody should jump to any conclusions.

so going by this yamato could sell valks in the us if they were taken apart and had some assembly required.

[azrael]

Yeah, that sounds about right. Yamato would have to market it as a model kit for any VF-1. HG's license only applies to SDFM which they obtained from Tatsunoko (I should say Takara now since they bought Tatsunoko).

[EXO]

Yeah, that sounds about right. Yamato would have to market it as a model kit for any VF-1. HG's license only applies to SDFM which they obtained from Tatsunoko (I should say Takara now since they bought Tatsunoko).

Well, HG never obtained any license from Takara so saying so would be inacurrate even though now own Tatsanuko licenses. I remember that Takara bought approx 90% of Tatsanuko's titles, I'm pretty sure Macross, Mospeada and SC were never even considered in that deal. Plus, how is HG marketing DYRL valks only applies to SDFM? There are a lot of contradictions going on that quote cwmodels posted. So why hasn't Hasegawa released Macross models in the US?

[azrael]

Well, HG never obtained any license from Takara so saying so would be inacurrate even though now own Tatsanuko licenses. I remember that Takara bought approx 90% of Tatsanuko's titles, I'm pretty sure Macross, Mospeada and SC were never even considered in that deal. Plus, how is HG marketing DYRL valks only applies to SDFM? There are a lot of contradictions going on that quote cwmodels posted. So why hasn't Hasegawa released Macross models in the US?

Didn't HG try to market a DYRL? design once?

[JB0]

Didn't HG try to market a DYRL? design once?

They sold a trio of DYRL superposables. I gather they didn't sell well.

I think it was probably to bolster their claims of DYRL ownership.

[jenius]

They sold a trio of DYRL superposables. I gather they didn't sell well.

I think it was probably to bolster their claims of DYRL ownership.

Just a thought but is there a little merging of HG and Toynami happening here? I don't know how much HG leads Toynami (I always assumed HG had them by the short ones but I've been told several times now that's just not the case). Anyway, Toynami made their 1/100 series valks and some superposeables now but I don't know how much of that could really be construed as HG trying to affirm any rights. Seems to me like Toynami is just looking for new angles to make cash. After all, the DYRL superposeables was just another excuse for a repaint of existing products (although they did throw in a strike gun). I know HG does have a DYRL website that gives the visitor a strong impression that HG could release a DVD at some point (that website is now very old).

quick edit - I think lots of the questions regarding this licensing dispute (forgive me I haven't read through this) boils down to the word "derivatives." As far as the models go, maybe HG contends that the wording only applied to existing models at the time of agreement and models created since are based on derivatives of the original Macross universe.

Edited November 13, 2006 by jenius

[JB0]

Just a thought but is there a little merging of HG and Toynami happening here? I don't know how much HG leads Toynami (I always assumed HG had them by the short ones but I've been told several times now that's just not the case). Anyway, Toynami made their 1/100 series valks and some superposeables now but I don't know how much of that could really be construed as HG trying to affirm any rights. Seems to me like Toynami is just looking for new angles to make cash. After all, the DYRL superposeables was just another excuse for a repaint of existing products (although they did throw in a strike gun). I know HG does have a DYRL website that gives the visitor a strong impression that HG could release a DVD at some point (that website is now very old).

But the superposables were HG-licensed.

As far as Macross/Robotech-related merchandise, HG has the final call on what Toynami does and doesn't do.

I doubt they'd go "Yeah, we have no clue if we actually own that, but go ahead and do the release with our name on it."

I don't recall the specifics of the legal mess involved in that one, though.

[valk1j]

I wonder how this will effect Harmony Gold.

Read Me

[wldr]

I wonder how this will effect Harmony Gold.

Read Me

I don't know what effect it will have, but it is very interesting reading that's for sure.

[Macross73]

Based on just this article alone there doesnt seem to be any effect forth coming. Atleast nothing that suggest that ownership rights would be affected.

ending the long ownership battle isn't gonna happen any time soon.

Edited November 30, 2006 by Macross73

[jenius]

That article just makes it sound to me like the guy who founded HG is a very intelligent, if not unscrupulous, business man. He bought stuff low and sold high... that's the dream isn't it? Either way, doesn't sound like anything that would involve HG (does this guy even have a hand in HG anymore?).

[Roy Focker]

Triple profits is pretty good. Maybe it was through fraudulent purchases maybe not but clearly there a was big enough connection to make him a person of interest.

[azrael]

So they finally served a search warrant on Agrama...

Unfortunately, this won't affect HG...much. Yes we know about it....

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...mp;#entry351402

[sketchley]

If he is a 'smart' business man, he'd have set it up so that he (his personal finances) and the company are legally seperate. It's done to protect him from any financial loses from the company. But in this case, it adds a layer of insulation around HG. T.T

[Rabidweezil]

I know no one has posted in this topic for a while. And this has probably been covered somewhere in all the pages.

Regardless of the reason HG got their liscense...usually they aren't forever and have to be renewed. I doubt Big West would renew such a liscense...so I wonder what the deal is. Robotech was like forever ago, yet HG still has the liscense to make products on their own and block others.

So does anyone know if they did renew their liscense or if they have some "until the end of time" version?

[areaseven]

How are these guys able to use the Robotech name without HG hounding them?

Robotech

Robotech Center

[JB0]

I know no one has posted in this topic for a while. And this has probably been covered somewhere in all the pages.

Regardless of the reason HG got their liscense...usually they aren't forever and have to be renewed. I doubt Big West would renew such a liscense...so I wonder what the deal is. Robotech was like forever ago, yet HG still has the liscense to make products on their own and block others.

So does anyone know if they did renew their liscense or if they have some "until the end of time" version?

Well, no one's SEEN HG's license, is part of the problem.

But it WAS the 80s. IP was a lot smaller concern. They weren't really thinking that "Hey, someone will still give a poo about this 20 years later, we better make sure we do this exactly right."

Either way, HG is a sublicensee. The initial agreement was with Tatsunoko, and HG got their license from Tatsunoko. So the Tatsunoko deal is of interest too, and that might not even EXIST in print(I've heard it was a verbal contract before, but I'm not sure that's accurate).

[jenius]

Either way, HG is a sublicensee. The initial agreement was with Tatsunoko, and HG got their license from Tatsunoko. So the Tatsunoko deal is of interest too, and that might not even EXIST in print(I've heard it was a verbal contract before, but I'm not sure that's accurate).

If memory serves, Tatsunoko also went to bat for HG regarding the license debacle. Don't ask me to go find quotes, it's been far too long, but it was my understanding that HG had this mercurial agreement that no one could validate but HG claimed existed and Tatsunoko agreed about. Big West was then left being the big fish in a small pond with all the strength in the world just short of actually being able to kill the HG/Tatsunoko alliance. Big West then went to its licensees and forbid them from doing business with HG (understandably) and HG then went and forbade those companies from trying to get their properties into the US (and other countries... but primarily the US) without HG approval. Mac+ made it to the US when HG was its weakest and because it wasn't viewed as any sort of competition for Robotech products... but when the toys came out HG suddenly changed its mind. Then when HG tried to broker a deal with the Macross toy manufacturers BW once against stepped up and forbid it.

How are these guys able to use the Robotech name without HG hounding them?

I think that's a case of two items obviously unrelated to either the current Robotech series or even the Robotech model franchise in such and obvious and clear way that HG doesn't see it being worth the financial efforts to force them to change their names/sites. Most consumers aren't going to relate the Robotech Pool Cleaner to the Robotech transformable aero-space fighter of cartoons.

Edited February 18, 2007 by jenius

[sketchley]

It may also be because those companies are outside of the USA (HG's home turff) and the countries have different laws - laws that have prevented any legal actions, simply because they are groundless in those countries' judicial systems.

That, and they may have copyright, registered tradmarks, etc., that predate the HG use of the term. In this situation, it's HG that will more than likely loose. Consider the case of Puffy vs. Puffy. Puffy (Japan) is still used to refer to the group in Japan, whereas they entered into the US market after Puffy (the rapper) established his use of the name, and Puffy became Puffy Japan in, and only in, the US.

Personally I find the legal actions based on similar sounding names as being rediculous... Marvel (X-men) vs. John Burn's Next Men, etc... :roll:

[Pat Payne]

It may also be because those companies are outside of the USA (HG's home turff) and the countries have different laws - laws that have prevented any legal actions, simply because they are groundless in those countries' judicial systems.

That, and they may have copyright, registered tradmarks, etc., that predate the HG use of the term. In this situation, it's HG that will more than likely loose. Consider the case of Puffy vs. Puffy. Puffy (Japan) is still used to refer to the group in Japan, whereas they entered into the US market after Puffy (the rapper) established his use of the name, and Puffy became Puffy Japan in, and only in, the US.

Personally I find the legal actions based on similar sounding names as being rediculous... Marvel (X-men) vs. John Burn's Next Men, etc... :roll:

That, and there's enough precedent out there that two companies, so long as they don't compete in the same business are free to use the same name (unless the name is so well known that there would be confusion no matter what -- like if I tried to make a "MicroSoft" soft drink).

That was the crux of the legal problems between Apple Corps (The Beatles' label) and Apple Computers. Apple Corps sued due to the similarity of name and logo, but ended up not being able to do much of anything because of the separation in their business. So they decided to "live and let live" so long as Apple Computers stayed out of the music buisness. And so it was until iTunes emerged, and Apple Corps fired up the lawyers again.

Regarding your example of Puffy, I remember that the band X(Japan) was originally known as X, but that they changed the name on their own when they hit it big outside of Japan more to prevent confusion between them and X, the LA punk band led by John Doe and Exene Cervenka than any actual legal threats.

Edited February 22, 2007 by Pat Payne

[mister_e]

It's not Puffy anymore, it's Diddy. Puffy was so 2004. So those cry babies at Puffy Japan can have their stupid little name back

[Macross73]

So now that there something new on the horizon (Format Unknown)

If a new movie is in the works and if toys will be made can BW circumvent any

interference by HG and sell the toys globally?

[JB0]

So now that there something new on the horizon (Format Unknown)

If a new movie is in the works and if toys will be made can BW circumvent any

interference by HG and sell the toys globally?

No, because HG will throw a hissyfit over anything with the Macross name.

[Macross73]

[Pat Payne]

They tried before, with the (IIRC) "Sunwards" line of a few years back, but apparently either there wasn't enough interest or they were advised by their lawyers that selling an non-Macross Macross would still open the legal can o' worms.

[wolfx]

Since the original thread was closed, i'll just post this here for interest's sake.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/convention...tommy-yune-pied

[David Hingtgen]

Warning to all---go ahead and read the page wolfx linked to, but no more discussion about it here or elsewhere in the MW forums.

[Star Dragon]

That's hilarious!

On a related note, I posted my mod's yearly update on their site and within 2 weeks it looks like they DELETED it. (nice attitude, don't like something, pretend it doesn't exist...)

Oh wait that's exactly what I'm doing with Shadow Chronicles... Guess we're even then.

[JValk]

I FINALLY got around to watching Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles. It wasn't bad as long as I didn't associate any of the characters with Macross characters (easy to do since no one looked familiar even if they had names that should hehe). The singing was HORRIBLE. Hmm, what else? Oh, were they thinking of a sequel to finally get Rick Hunter off the schnide? That's it!

[baronv]

For those previously looking, the Robotech: Protoculture DVD set is back in circulation after being hard to find for the past year. Just picked one up at Best Buy. They sell it online on their site as well as on Amazon.

[Apollo Leader]

I know we are not suppose to talk about the Tommy Yune incident any further, but I BEG that I post this link because it is relative to the point I tried to make in the now closed thread about how serious of a situation this was and could have been:

Camper arrested for assault using water balloons. One of the campers that got hit in the face by the other camper's "water balloons" may end up loosing sight in his one eye. What on the surface sounds like a juvenille act turned out to be a very serious situation where one man may now lose part of his sight and the perp. could now potentially go to jail and/or be sued for every penny that he has. What if Adam Schiller's action resulted in more then just some humiliation to Tommy Yune?

That is all.

[JsARCLIGHT]

As David said, NO MORE discussion of that incident please.

[Fatalist]

"As David said, NO MORE discussion of that incident please."

OOoh, can i have a soapbox too?

Edited August 16, 2007 by Fatalist

[JsARCLIGHT]

I'm not sure what you are playing at with your statement, but the staff have received complaints about this issue and this recent post has generated more complaints. The topic in question is verboten here by decision of the administration.