dna Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 You know what the problem is? They should have created 3 different intros, instead of 1 single intro. One for each part of the show. it would've been easy to manage crediting everyone that worked either in the original shows or on putting RT together.EDIT: spelling Then it would have been like watching three different shows - do you know how confusing that would have been to the average (little) kid that they were trying to capture? They needed to keep that Robotech intro to remind you that you were watching Robotech, all three parts. Instead of a different intro/closing, they could have changed just the credits appearing for each part. Maybe that's what you were saying and I just took it the wrong way
Abombz!! Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 (edited) You know what the problem is? They should have created 3 different intros, instead of 1 single intro. One for each part of the show. it would've been easy to manage crediting everyone that worked either in the original shows or on putting RT together.EDIT: spelling Then it would have been like watching three different shows - do you know how confusing that would have been to the average (little) kid that they were trying to capture? They needed to keep that Robotech intro to remind you that you were watching Robotech, all three parts. Instead of a different intro/closing, they could have changed just the credits appearing for each part. Maybe that's what you were saying and I just took it the wrong way Both could work. Animes have been doing it for a long time now... and I don't see any kid complaining they are confused. I mean... come on! Japanese kids (and other country kids at that) have been living with shows that change their intro every season, and yet they can recognize what show they are watching. Are you saying the average 10 year old Foreign kid (be it Spanish, Brazilian, Chinese, which ever you want) is more inteligent then the average 10 year old American? Edited October 17, 2003 by Abombz!!
dna Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 [ Are you saying the average 10 year old Foreign kid (be it Spanish, Brazilian, Chinese, which ever you want) is more inteligent then the average 10 year old American? Well, from what I've seen... yes. Anyway, A regular show changing it's intro every season VS Robotech changing it's intro, cast, and storyline would be much more confusing IMHO. That's really even hard to compare the two situations.
Abombz!! Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 (edited) [ Are you saying the average 10 year old Foreign kid (be it Spanish, Brazilian, Chinese, which ever you want) is more inteligent then the average 10 year old American? Well, from what I've seen... yes. Anyway, A regular show changing it's intro every season VS Robotech changing it's intro, cast, and storyline would be much more confusing IMHO. That's really even hard to compare the two situations. The story line is still the same. As for changing characters..... RT is not a pioneer at it. And if you keep the intro song and put the name "Robotech" right in the beginning of the intro... not even a kid with the IQ of a tea cup could get its wrong. And besides.... the first episode of the Masters saga was a clip episode, no? isn't that enough to set the kdis straight? And besides.... if RT was really the success ppl claim it was.... kids would be watching it since the Macross saga, and if they saw a new intro, they wouldn't just change the channel, they would stick around to see what the change was all about. Edited October 17, 2003 by Abombz!!
Vostok 7 Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 Are you saying the average 10 year old Foreign kid (be it Spanish, Brazilian, Chinese, which ever you want) is more inteligent then the average 10 year old American? Yes. And it's true too, sadly. Vostok 7
bsu legato Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 Are you saying the average 10 year old Foreign kid (be it Spanish, Brazilian, Chinese, which ever you want) is more inteligent then the average 10 year old American? Yes. And it's true too, sadly. Public skoolz rawk!
wrylac Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 [ Are you saying the average 10 year old Foreign kid (be it Spanish, Brazilian, Chinese, which ever you want) is more inteligent then the average 10 year old American? Well, from what I've seen... yes. Anyway, A regular show changing it's intro every season VS Robotech changing it's intro, cast, and storyline would be much more confusing IMHO. That's really even hard to compare the two situations. The story line is still the same. As for changing characters..... RT is not a pioneer at it. And if you keep the intro song and put the name "Robotech" right in the beginning of the intro... not even a kid with the IQ of a tea cup could get its wrong. And besides.... the first episode of the Masters saga was a clip episode, no? isn't that enough to set the kdis straight? And besides.... if RT was really the success ppl claim it was.... kids would be watching it since the Macross saga, and if they saw a new intro, they wouldn't just change the channel, they would stick around to see what the change was all about. I stopped watching RT when the Masters portion started airing, I knew it was RT because of the intro but it really didn't interest me because it was a complete change for the show. I started watching it again when the New Generation portion started airing. I finally knew why they had those other planes in the intro. But, I guess the real issue isn't what anyone else would have done, but how HG chose to handle it. Really, what they did as far as credits go has a perfectly legitimate explanation. I don't fault them for doing it that way.
pfunk Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 Are you saying the average 10 year old Foreign kid (be it Spanish, Brazilian, Chinese, which ever you want) is more inteligent then the average 10 year old American? Yes. And it's true too, sadly. Public skoolz rawk! HELL YEAH BABY WORLD POWER OVER ALL Were such a bunch a dummies (10 yr old Americans)
tom64ss Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 Are you saying the average 10 year old Foreign kid (be it Spanish, Brazilian, Chinese, which ever you want) is more inteligent then the average 10 year old American? Yes. And it's true too, sadly. Public skoolz rawk! HELL YEAH BABY WORLD POWER OVER ALL Were such a bunch a dummies (10 yr old Americans) The really sad part is that most of those 10 year olds are probably smarter than most Americans adults. ......what they did as far as credits go has a perfectly legitimate explanation. I can't think of any possible reason that can justify not giving any credit at all. What was their reason?
wrylac Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 (edited) Are you saying the average 10 year old Foreign kid (be it Spanish, Brazilian, Chinese, which ever you want) is more inteligent then the average 10 year old American? Yes. And it's true too, sadly. Public skoolz rawk! HELL YEAH BABY WORLD POWER OVER ALL Were such a bunch a dummies (10 yr old Americans) The really sad part is that most of those 10 year olds are probably smarter than most Americans adults. ......what they did as far as credits go has a perfectly legitimate explanation. I can't think of any possible reason that can justify not giving any credit at all. What was their reason? I think just some of those reasons have been articulated already in this thread. 1. RT is a combination of 3 shows not just Macross. Adding all the credits to the intros and endings would have made further cuts to the episodes of all the shows necessary. 2. Creating one intro for all three parts limits the amount of confusion among viewers. 3. Crediting TP as a whole does give credit to those working for TP. 4. Noburo Ishiguro was the Chief Director and everyone reported to him. So he would be credited above anyone else on the production level. 5. Crediting only the major players (ie. those in charge of how money was spent) is common in television. Edited October 17, 2003 by wrylac
tom64ss Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 I still don't see how crediting 3 or 4 key players from each series would have extended the credits by that much. They could have just scrolled through them a little faster, but what's done is done. Thanks for the explaination wrylac.
Abombz!! Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 2. Creating one set of credits for all three parts limits the amount of confusion among viewers. Honestly.... I don't see how this could be a reasonable explanation. I just fail to see how something like that would cause viewer confusion. Seriously.... ppl can't be that stupid to be confused with different credits in an intro sequences. Were IQs really that low back then? It was HGs choice on how to handle the crediting and the intro. I'm simply saying that certain "jobs" should have been credited.... main character design.
wrylac Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 2. Creating one set of credits for all three parts limits the amount of confusion among viewers. Honestly.... I don't see how this could be a reasonable explanation. I just fail to see how something like that would cause viewer confusion. Seriously.... ppl can't be that stupid to be confused with different credits in an intro sequences. Were IQs really that low back then? It was HGs choice on how to handle the crediting and the intro. I'm simply saying that certain "jobs" should have been credited.... main character design. You're right, that's not what I meant exactly, note my edit. But, it does bring up another point. Back then, creating titles meant a heafty expense in the editing room, now it's easy, but you had to rent a seperate piece of equipment to do titles. Creating one set of credits limits the cost during post-production.
Blaine23 Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 2. Creating one set of credits for all three parts limits the amount of confusion among viewers. Honestly.... I don't see how this could be a reasonable explanation. I just fail to see how something like that would cause viewer confusion. Seriously.... ppl can't be that stupid to be confused with different credits in an intro sequences. Were IQs really that low back then? It was HGs choice on how to handle the crediting and the intro. I'm simply saying that certain "jobs" should have been credited.... main character design. You're right, that's not what I meant exactly, note my edit. But, it does bring up another point. Back then, creating titles meant a heafty expense in the editing room, now it's easy, but you had to rent a seperate piece of equipment to do titles. Creating one set of credits limits the cost during post-production. That's no excuse for why they haven't corrected the credits since then. A mistake made in ignorant times I can handle - the continued blatant discrediting of the original creators for 20 some odd years, I can't handle. Seems to me ADV could have easily thrown in proper credits when putting together the RT DVDs at very, very little cost. But then HG wouldn't be HG. And we wouldn't all hate them for being giant asses.
Abombz!! Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 2. Creating one set of credits for all three parts limits the amount of confusion among viewers. Honestly.... I don't see how this could be a reasonable explanation. I just fail to see how something like that would cause viewer confusion. Seriously.... ppl can't be that stupid to be confused with different credits in an intro sequences. Were IQs really that low back then? It was HGs choice on how to handle the crediting and the intro. I'm simply saying that certain "jobs" should have been credited.... main character design. You're right, that's not what I meant exactly, note my edit. But, it does bring up another point. Back then, creating titles meant a heafty expense in the editing room, now it's easy, but you had to rent a seperate piece of equipment to do titles. Creating one set of credits limits the cost during post-production. Now it makes more sense.
pfunk Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 Are thier any court cases on the internet between HG and BW, or are they trying to reach a point to sell Macross toys in the HG teritory. In otherwords, where are people getting thier information from?
Khyron Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 Everyone keeps talking about RT looking back at it. Do you really mean that as a little kid, you wouldn't be confused a little at a whole new intro even with the same name & music? Remember, RT was one long story, not three separate stories. It all ran over a few months, not a few seasons. Different seasons did have different openings back the (TF, GIJoe). Besides the same music & title, familiar characters were still seen in the new intro. Since it was a 100% new cast for each portion of RT, no familiar characters could be shown. I did like the blending of the 3 shows that RT used for its opening/endings. I agree they should have had one extra text flash with mention of the Japanese creation crew but there is nothing that can be done about it now so no use in loosing sleep over it.
tom64ss Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 2. Creating one set of credits for all three parts limits the amount of confusion among viewers. Honestly.... I don't see how this could be a reasonable explanation. I just fail to see how something like that would cause viewer confusion. Seriously.... ppl can't be that stupid to be confused with different credits in an intro sequences. Were IQs really that low back then? It was HGs choice on how to handle the crediting and the intro. I'm simply saying that certain "jobs" should have been credited.... main character design. You're right, that's not what I meant exactly, note my edit. But, it does bring up another point. Back then, creating titles meant a heafty expense in the editing room, now it's easy, but you had to rent a seperate piece of equipment to do titles. Creating one set of credits limits the cost during post-production. In other words, they were too lazy and cheap to do it the right way. The expense is only hefty compared to doing nothing at all. There's no way doing 3 variations of the opening and closing credits would be considered a hefty expense when calculated into the overall cost of the entire production.
Abombz!! Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 Everyone keeps talking about RT looking back at it. Do you really mean that as a little kid, you wouldn't be confused a little at a whole new intro even with the same name & music? Not even one bit. In Brazil, anime didn't ran in seasons, everything was shown right off the bat. I ddin't get confused when Saint Seiya got a different opening and a major character overhaul. I didn't get confused over then 6 different Yu Yu Hakusho endings. I didn't get confused over then 2 different Shurato openings, the 5 different Ruroni Kenshin openings, the 2 different Zeta Gundam openings, the 2 different ZZ Gundam openings.... and I saw most of those shows at an age that most RT fans had watched Robotech. Kids aren't dumb.... having a different opening isn't going to confuse anyone. <_<
wrylac Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 2. Creating one set of credits for all three parts limits the amount of confusion among viewers. Honestly.... I don't see how this could be a reasonable explanation. I just fail to see how something like that would cause viewer confusion. Seriously.... ppl can't be that stupid to be confused with different credits in an intro sequences. Were IQs really that low back then? It was HGs choice on how to handle the crediting and the intro. I'm simply saying that certain "jobs" should have been credited.... main character design. You're right, that's not what I meant exactly, note my edit. But, it does bring up another point. Back then, creating titles meant a heafty expense in the editing room, now it's easy, but you had to rent a seperate piece of equipment to do titles. Creating one set of credits limits the cost during post-production. In other words, they were too lazy and cheap to do it the right way. The expense is only hefty compared to doing nothing at all. There's no way doing 3 variations of the opening and closing credits would be considered a hefty expense when calculated into the overall cost of the entire production. Sure, if you want to focus only on one of the several reasons I gave you. But, you're forgetting one thing. HG was using a new technology called VIDEO. This was new and very expensive technology.
Ladic Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 (edited) 3. Crediting TP as a whole does give credit to those working for TP. Edited October 17, 2003 by Ladic
pfunk Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 Are thier any court cases on the internet between HG and BW, or are they trying to reach a point to sell Macross toys in the HG teritory. In otherwords, where are people getting thier information from? Hey Wrylac, Just noticed your sig, kinda answered my question,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,did you just make that for little ole me I have one question (well, maybe 3), hopefully you guys wil ignore this one too Judging by the latest ruling on the HG BW case (that wrylac has in his sig), thats it, isnt it? Whats done is done right? No matter how many petitions are signed and letters sent, nothing will happen,,,,,,,,,unless BW knocks on HG's door and comes up with an offer.
Abombz!! Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 (edited) Judging by the latest ruling on the HG BW case (that wrylac has in his sig), thats it, isnt it? Whats done is done right? No matter how many petitions are signed and letters sent, nothing will happen,,,,,,,,,unless BW knocks on HG's door and comes up with an offer. Err... I don't really see how you came up with that. No one knows who owns the story. And as far as we know.... BW owns the derivatives because they have been pumping out Macross derivatives without TP saying anything about them. If BW was to release Macross Zero here.... I doubt HG could do anything to try and stop it. Untill BW is done with Macross Zero.... things will remain as is. Maybe then... BW will make a move and dispute the whole deal in court with HG.... untill then.... any argument will be a simple guess. Edited October 17, 2003 by Abombz!!
the white drew carey Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 Everyone keeps talking about RT looking back at it. Do you really mean that as a little kid, you wouldn't be confused a little at a whole new intro even with the same name & music? Umm... No. I don't think myself, or anyone I know would've been confused. We knew Robotech was on at 6am and that we could watch it before we had to leave for school. Many of us were confused by the whole change in the show from Macross saga, to masters, to New Generation (and why the animation kept changing. What was really sad were the kids who missed a couple of episodes in a row.. my friend Glenn comes to mind. He missed the last episode of "The Macross Saga" and came back at the second episode of Masters. He came to school incredibly confused wondering what the hell happened and why were they showing a different show under the Robotech moniker?!? It didn't help that Robotech bombed in my area (Chicago) and only showed once through on UHF channel 57 out of Rockford. Luckily for me, a Japanese-American family moved into the neighborhood and the two brothers were really into anime. They schooled me on this Robotech thing and what it was really about.
dna Posted October 17, 2003 Posted October 17, 2003 You people are forgetting one thing: lowest common denomenator Just because you wouldn't have been confused doesn't mean that Cornfed down the street wouldn't have been. Even if only 10% of the kids were too stupid to figure it out, that's 10% of your audience, and pocket book, that you would miss out on (maybe). At any rate, Wrylac's money explanation is probably closer to the truth than anything else here. At least as far as the credits go
Abombz!! Posted October 18, 2003 Posted October 18, 2003 (edited) You people are forgetting one thing: lowest common denomenator Just because you wouldn't have been confused doesn't mean that Cornfed down the street wouldn't have been. Even if only 10% of the kids were too stupid to figure it out, that's 10% of your audience, and pocket book, that you would miss out on (maybe). At any rate, Wrylac's money explanation is probably closer to the truth than anything else here. At least as far as the credits go Come on!! If the kid was too stupid to figure something like that out.... how the heck was he smart enough to keep up with the story line? It doesn't make an ounce of sense, for a kid to be confused by changing intros but not be confused by plot twists. <_< Specially when you consider the enormous amount of anime magik going on in those days. Edited October 18, 2003 by Abombz!!
JB0 Posted October 18, 2003 Posted October 18, 2003 You people are forgetting one thing: lowest common denomenator Just because you wouldn't have been confused doesn't mean that Cornfed down the street wouldn't have been. Even if only 10% of the kids were too stupid to figure it out, that's 10% of your audience, and pocket book, that you would miss out on (maybe). At any rate, Wrylac's money explanation is probably closer to the truth than anything else here. At least as far as the credits go Come on!! If the kid was too stupid to figure something like that out.... how the heck was he smart enough to keep up with the story line? It doesn't make an ounce of sense, for a kid to be confused by changing intros but not be confused by plot twists. Specially when you consider the enormous amount of anime magik going on in those days. Plot twists? When I was watching Robotech as a kid my view of it was "Ooooohhhhhh, pretty explosions."
pfunk Posted October 18, 2003 Posted October 18, 2003 Judging by the latest ruling on the HG BW case (that wrylac has in his sig), thats it, isnt it? Whats done is done right? No matter how many petitions are signed and letters sent, nothing will happen,,,,,,,,,unless BW knocks on HG's door and comes up with an offer. Err... I don't really see how you came up with that. No one knows who owns the story. And as far as we know.... BW owns the derivatives because they have been pumping out Macross derivatives without TP saying anything about them. If BW was to release Macross Zero here.... I doubt HG could do anything to try and stop it. Untill BW is done with Macross Zero.... things will remain as is. Maybe then... BW will make a move and dispute the whole deal in court with HG.... untill then.... any argument will be a simple guess. http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...26&t=153&st=320 http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...26&t=153&st=440 I though this stated whats happening now and likelyhood for the future?
Abombz!! Posted October 18, 2003 Posted October 18, 2003 Judging by the latest ruling on the HG BW case (that wrylac has in his sig), thats it, isnt it? Whats done is done right? No matter how many petitions are signed and letters sent, nothing will happen,,,,,,,,,unless BW knocks on HG's door and comes up with an offer. Err... I don't really see how you came up with that. No one knows who owns the story. And as far as we know.... BW owns the derivatives because they have been pumping out Macross derivatives without TP saying anything about them. If BW was to release Macross Zero here.... I doubt HG could do anything to try and stop it. Untill BW is done with Macross Zero.... things will remain as is. Maybe then... BW will make a move and dispute the whole deal in court with HG.... untill then.... any argument will be a simple guess. http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...26&t=153&st=320 http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...26&t=153&st=440 I though this stated whats happening now and likelyhood for the future? We all know whats happening now.... we don't know whats happening in the future. Because no one here knows who owns the derivatives. Though.... its kind of obvious its BW because they have been making Macross derivatives since 1984, without TP complaining about it (either because they were too busy or because they simply didn't care... it doesn't matter). If you want to know whats going to happen in the future, wait till Macross Zero is finished so BW can put their plans in order.
wrylac Posted October 18, 2003 Posted October 18, 2003 (edited) Judging by the latest ruling on the HG BW case (that wrylac has in his sig), thats it, isnt it? Whats done is done right? No matter how many petitions are signed and letters sent, nothing will happen,,,,,,,,,unless BW knocks on HG's door and comes up with an offer. Err... I don't really see how you came up with that. No one knows who owns the story. And as far as we know.... BW owns the derivatives because they have been pumping out Macross derivatives without TP saying anything about them. If BW was to release Macross Zero here.... I doubt HG could do anything to try and stop it. Untill BW is done with Macross Zero.... things will remain as is. Maybe then... BW will make a move and dispute the whole deal in court with HG.... untill then.... any argument will be a simple guess. http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...26&t=153&st=320 http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...26&t=153&st=440 I though this stated whats happening now and likelyhood for the future? We all know whats happening now.... we don't know whats happening in the future. Because no one here knows who owns the derivatives. Though.... its kind of obvious its BW because they have been making Macross derivatives since 1984, without TP complaining about it (either because they were too busy or because they simply didn't care... it doesn't matter). If you want to know whats going to happen in the future, wait till Macross Zero is finished so BW can put their plans in order. Of course BW owns those derivatives, as you said, they made them. The question we really care about is, "who has the right to distribute those derivatives internationally?" Even if BW is found to "own" them without having to compensate TP for making them (this itself is still not settled), we still don't know for certain how the memorandum affects how derivatives are handled int'ly. Edited October 18, 2003 by wrylac
JB0 Posted October 19, 2003 Posted October 19, 2003 Even if BW is found to "own" them without having to compensate TP for making them (this itself is still not settled), we still don't know for certain how the memorandum affects how derivatives are handled int'ly. I would be VERY suprised if Tatsunoko had ANY ground to chanllenge Big West at this point. Ignoring abuse of your rights typically results in the loss of said rights. At this point, with tons of sequels made by Big West with no cut given to Tatsunoko, and the US releases of Macross 2 and Plus, ALSO with no involvement of Tatsunoko, I'd think one would be hard-pressed to find a judge willing to uphold any Tatsunoko claims.
cwbrown Posted October 19, 2003 Posted October 19, 2003 Even if BW is found to "own" them without having to compensate TP for making them (this itself is still not settled), we still don't know for certain how the memorandum affects how derivatives are handled int'ly. I would be VERY suprised if Tatsunoko had ANY ground to chanllenge Big West at this point. Ignoring abuse of your rights typically results in the loss of said rights. At this point, with tons of sequels made by Big West with no cut given to Tatsunoko, and the US releases of Macross 2 and Plus, ALSO with no involvement of Tatsunoko, I'd think one would be hard-pressed to find a judge willing to uphold any Tatsunoko claims. Actually, ignoring abuse of your rights only leads to loss of rights to those particular items, not everything under the sun. The loss of rights would be narrow and specific. That's why, for the sake of argument, TP or HG are not totally wrong saying they lost the rights to the videos of M+ and MII (for whatever reason they lost them), but not necessarily the merchandise to those shows or any future sequels. Not saying they have those rights, just that if they do, their statements about not challenging the rights to those two are not surprising. For all I know, and I don't, they might still have a claim for monetary damages against BW, but I doubt they have any equitable claims to stop current and future sales of M+ and MII. But, they would still be able to stop anything else still.
sidearmsalpha Posted October 20, 2003 Posted October 20, 2003 Without having to scroll through pages and pages of this thread, I would like to know if Manga Entertainment had to get permission from HG to release Macross II and Macross Plus? I would think so, right? Anyone kind enough to answer that for me? Sorry if this seems like a stupid question.
JB0 Posted October 20, 2003 Posted October 20, 2003 Without having to scroll through pages and pages of this thread, I would like to know if Manga Entertainment had to get permission from HG to release Macross II and Macross Plus? I would think so, right? Anyone kind enough to answer that for me?Sorry if this seems like a stupid question. No. Mac+ and Mac2 were released without HG. According to HG, they weren't even aware of the release untill recently(recently being "when we started claiming exclusive rights to all things Macross"). BTW, Mac2 was originally released by a diffrent company. It only became a Manga release when Manga bought them out.
sidearmsalpha Posted October 20, 2003 Posted October 20, 2003 Without having to scroll through pages and pages of this thread, I would like to know if Manga Entertainment had to get permission from HG to release Macross II and Macross Plus? I would think so, right? Anyone kind enough to answer that for me?Sorry if this seems like a stupid question. No. Mac+ and Mac2 were released without HG. According to HG, they weren't even aware of the release untill recently(recently being "when we started claiming exclusive rights to all things Macross"). BTW, Mac2 was originally released by a diffrent company. It only became a Manga release when Manga bought them out. Wow!!! How did this slip past HG's seemingly-smelling-anything Macross-related noses?!
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