Robotech and HG license debates

[the white drew carey]

I don't know if this belongs here but I think this place is appropriate . I was readind a post in another section of this forum (toys/yf-1r? head) and came across a reply from kanata67?:

Hopefully when the alpha MPC is released and HG wants to export it to places of great demand they might lossen the choke hold on valk import to the states.

My questions are do you guys/gals think if there is demand say in Japan, can HG export their alpha MPC line of toys internationally? Will Yamato?/HG? resolve their differences or agree on anything that will allow them to distribute their products worldwide? I'd like to see Yamato toys released here in the states so everyone here dosen't have to pay high prices.

I can't answer the demand question, but I don't see why HG cannot export the MPC Alphas over to Japan. HG has been partners with Tatsunoko since the start of Robotech. Tatsunoko is the Japanese company who owns MOSPEADA and, in turn, licensed it to HG.

So I don't think they're going to cause any beef about it as long as the correct licensing rights are paid and such.

The clincher is that, probably, no one in Japan knows what an Alpha is. So it's entirely possible that it will be released as the MPC Legioss. Therefore causing another "collector's item", if you will.

Will Yamato?/HG? resolve their differences or agree on anything that will allow them to distribute their products worldwide? I'd like to see Yamato toys released here in the states so everyone here dosen't have to pay high prices.

As to this question... you'll have to read through this whole thread and come up with your own conclusions.

[cwbrown]

If you mean crediting the creators in the actual show itself...do you realise how long the credits would have been?

Credit where it's due, pal. If it weren't for them, there would be no Robotech.

Just to satisfy my curiosity, Pat, who would you have credited?

The reason I ask is that there were some credits for the original animation in the series. I actually asked this on the old thread, and I don't think anyone ever gave me an answer.

This is from the RT episode "Blue Wind", episode 13:

Original animation produced by Tatsunoko Productions [with TP's full formal name]

Producer Kenji Yoshida

Director Ippei Kuri

Is this information accurate? Is it misleading? I ask from the standpoint of the original Macross eps. I don't own them (hopefully "yet", they're expensive), so I don't know how the credits even went on the original eps. But, from the standpoint of "credit where credit is due" I think that including the original director and producer (while maybe not "enough") was fair and didn't completely hide where RT came from. Could they have included BW and SN as "character designers"? Sure. But, they also didn't list Anime Fiend as the animators in any of the eps, AFAIK.

[Ladic]

Ok, I just want to ask something, because alot of people say that HG hid the fact from public that Robotech and the other 3 shows were just remakes for the american market. But didn't back in the day Robotech release de series on Tape which had both the AMerican and Japanese versions?

[the white drew carey]

Just to satisfy my curiosity, Pat, who would you have credited?

The reason I ask is that there were some credits for the original animation in the series. I actually asked this on the old thread, and I don't think anyone ever gave me an answer.

This is from the RT episode "Blue Wind", episode 13:

Original animation produced by Tatsunoko Productions [with TP's full formal name]

Producer Kenji Yoshida

Director Ippei Kuri

Is this information accurate? Is it misleading? I ask from the standpoint of the original Macross eps. I don't own them (hopefully "yet", they're expensive), so I don't know how the credits even went on the original eps. But, from the standpoint of "credit where credit is due" I think that including the original director and producer (while maybe not "enough") was fair and didn't completely hide where RT came from. Could they have included BW and SN as "character designers"? Sure. But, they also didn't list Anime Fiend as the animators in any of the eps, AFAIK.

Well, not being able to read Japanese, I had to rely on the translated credits on the AnimeIgo disks.

According to those, the Director for ep. 13 was Matsuzaki Ken'Ichi. I don't see Ippei Kuri's name anywhere. All I can find for actual people under producer is three names listed under "Assistant Producer", none of which are Kenji Yoshida (Matsuzaki Ken'Ichi is one of them). Other than that, the only listing as "Produced By:" Has Mainichi Broadcast System, Tatsunoko Productions and Animefriend.

Now, I cannot attest to whether or not these credits reflect what is shown for each episode.

[Agent ONE]

Ok, I just want to ask something, because alot of people say that HG hid the fact from public that Robotech and the other 3 shows were just remakes for the american market. But didn't back in the day Robotech release de series on Tape which had both the AMerican and Japanese versions?

No. At one point a person could buy one tape of ep. 1 of a show called Super Spacefortress Macross. It had the SDF-M music and sounds, but a different english dub than the RT one (the same voice "actors" though)... oh yeah and Hikaru's name in that was Rick Yamato.

[the white drew carey]

Ok, I just want to ask something, because alot of people say that HG hid the fact from public that Robotech and the other 3 shows were just remakes for the american market. But didn't back in the day Robotech release de series on Tape which had both the AMerican and Japanese versions?

This was way after the program had originally aired on TV.

Streamline (which I thinks was run by Carl Macek at the time) attempted to release The Macross Perfect Collection on video tape in the early 90's. As you stated, it would showcase the original Japanese episode, subtitled, along with the Robotech version.

But this was all said and done well after anyone who still cared about Robotech had already found out the whole story behind it.

[j_wong00]

Ok, I just want to ask something, because alot of people say that HG hid the fact from public that Robotech and the other 3 shows were just remakes for the american market. But didn't back in the day Robotech release de series on Tape which had both the AMerican and Japanese versions?

I can't say if HG is actually "hiding" this fact. However, it's plain to see that they weren't advertising it for all to see either.

[cwbrown]

Well, not being able to read Japanese, I had to rely on the translated credits on the AnimeIgo disks.

According to those, the Director for ep. 13 was Matsuzaki Ken'Ichi. I don't see Ippei Kuri's name anywhere. All I can find for actual people under producer is three names listed under "Assistant Producer", none of which are Kenji Yoshida (Matsuzaki Ken'Ichi is one of them). Other than that, the only listing as "Produced By:" Has Mainichi Broadcast System, Tatsunoko Productions and Animefriend.

Now, I cannot attest to whether or not these credits reflect what is shown for each episode.

Can you tell me if perhaps there was an "animation direction/production" section, rather than overall direction/production? I'm wondering now how there could be such drastic differences.

[dna]

Ok, I just want to ask something, because alot of people say that HG hid the fact from public that Robotech and the other 3 shows were just remakes for the american market. But didn't back in the day Robotech release de series on Tape which had both the AMerican and Japanese versions?

No. At one point a person could buy one tape of ep. 1 of a show called Super Spacefortress Macross. It had the SDF-M music and sounds, but a different english dub than the RT one (the same voice "actors" though)... oh yeah and Hikaru's name in that was Rick Yamato.

Incorrect.

There was a series of Robotech VHS tapes released that had both the Robotech ep and the corresponding "other anime" (Macross, Southern Cross, Mospeada) ep. Forget the actual title of the series, but it was original voices.

This came sometime after the end of broadcast. I'd have to take a look for actual dates and it's been too long since I've watched it to give impressions.

I should compare them to my Mospeads DVD set to see just how accurate they were...

I don't know if they actually completed all the tapes in the Macross oportion (for some reason I'm thinking it was cancelled before they got that far) but they did go all the way throught he two later series.

Not that I'm saying that there wasn't a Super Spacefortress Macross - I'm sure there was, but there was this as well.

EDIT - Fine WDC, beat me to it. I don't care.

Edited October 16, 2003 by dna

[the white drew carey]

Incorrect.

There was a series of Robotech VHS tapes released that had both the Robotech ep and the corresponding "other anime" (Macross, Southern Cross, Mospeada) ep. Forget the actual title of the series, but it was original voices.

This came sometime after the end of broadcast. I'd have to take a look for actual dates and it's been too long since I've watched it to give impressions.

I should compare them to my Mospeads DVD set to see just how accurate they were...

I don't know if they actually completed all the tapes in the Macross oportion (for some reason I'm thinking it was cancelled before they got that far) but they did go all the way throught he two later series.

Not that I'm saying that there wasn't a Super Spacefortress Macross - I'm sure there was, but there was this as well.

EDIT - Fine WDC, beat me to it. I don't care.

DNA- Look up a couple of replies to my last post.

I know Agent One is right, I've seen the program as well. I'm just not clear as to the actual release date of the VHS.

[the white drew carey]

EDIT - Fine WDC, beat me to it. I don't care.

All's fair in Love and... Well, you know what I mean!!!

[Agent ONE]

...

Incorrect.

There was a series of Robotech VHS tapes released that had both the Robotech ep and the corresponding "other anime" (Macross, Southern Cross, Mospeada) ep. Forget the actual title of the series, but it was original voices.

This came sometime after the end of broadcast. I'd have to take a look for actual dates and it's been too long since I've watched it to give impressions.

I should compare them to my Mospeads DVD set to see just how accurate they were...

I don't know if they actually completed all the tapes in the Macross oportion (for some reason I'm thinking it was cancelled before they got that far) but they did go all the way throught he two later series.

Not that I'm saying that there wasn't a Super Spacefortress Macross - I'm sure there was, but there was this as well.

EDIT - Fine WDC, beat me to it. I don't care.

I think that WAS (or at least so say HG) the plan, but they were never released.

[cwbrown]

...

Incorrect.

There was a series of Robotech VHS tapes released that had both the Robotech ep and the corresponding "other anime" (Macross, Southern Cross, Mospeada) ep.  Forget the actual title of the series, but it was original voices.

This came sometime after the end of broadcast.  I'd have to take a look for actual dates and it's been too long since I've watched it to give impressions.

I should compare them to my Mospeads DVD set to see just how accurate they were...

I don't know if they actually completed all the tapes in the Macross oportion (for some reason I'm thinking it was cancelled before they got that far) but they did go all the way throught he two later series.

Not that I'm saying that there wasn't a Super Spacefortress Macross - I'm sure there was, but there was this as well.

EDIT - Fine WDC, beat me to it.  I don't care.

I think that WAS (or at least so say HG) the plan, but they were never released.

Agent One, what do you mean, "they were never released"?

Mospeada Tapes on Ebay

Macross Tapes on Ebay

Mix and Match from all three on Ebay

As stated, the Macross ones were never finished, but they were clearly released.

[pfunk]

True, at the time they probably didn't care too much for the int'l market. The simple fact that both the TV series and DYRL were hacked up and screwed over by the first companies outside of Japan to license them probably didn't help matters.

It wasn't until fans who were also business-people started to import Anime while faithfully, at least in the attempt , keeping the stories intact did anime actually start to grow as a viable market here in the U.S. That, coupled with Macross' surprising popularity in the face of Robotech, was probably what convinced BigWest that it was time for the franchise to leave the nest as it was meant to seen- as Macross.

If none of the Japaniese companies didnt want to show thier shows to create a fan base, Then why should they be allowed to sell thier product as a derivitive of that show. They would just be doing it for the money and who took the 1st step in business to release the show, HG in the case of Macross, so they should get a fairly large kickback from those companies that want to sell here.

I'm sorry this statement seems like it came from an HG glory hound. You seem to be making a lot of statements for someone who isn't showing much knowledge of RT's history and/or general business practices.

A- Business such as you're describing is all done by licensing and other carefully thought out factors. Not by kickbacks because "we released it first."

B- HG was all about money.

Carl Macek was probably the only person who cared to some degree about the anime itself. HG, on the other hand, got a package deal from Tatsunoko with the three series they made into Robotech.

"Robotech" itself was made up by Revell, who had purchased the distribution rights for many model kitsbased on mecha from anime. HG "went along" with Revell in order to secure an immediate tie-in with their products.

Thats exactly what I was stating. No one releases something (maybe the original writer) without thinking thier going to use it to make cash,,IE HG,

Im not a HG glory hound whatsoever (I want competitive prices and my own choice of product, not one one dictates to me, just like everyone here), I give credit to the original writers, not BW or HG. As for the toys, I give props to Yamato, Toynami, and Bandai (and a multitude of model manufacturers out thier) As far as HG goes, I cant blam them and I like what they did. I love Robotech, with the exception of Southern Cross, most of the points, art work, humor and storyline remains as per the writers intent (NOT SAYING HE WANTED IT EDITED) and HG brought that to me. In otherworks, its like the US post Office VS UPS to me, its trivial. For one product, If I want it, it costs a little more than the say the next best thing. For me its pointless why everyone wants to hang HG for things thier doing right now, I dont care if I have to spend an extra $10-$20 for shipping to get what I want,,,uhum,,need. The only thing I dont like is the fact that I cant easily get Macross sequils, Mospeada, Souther Cross, and so on in English cause I'm too lazy to learn Japaniese,,,,,,That would be my only bitch............everything revolves around cash and kickbacks BTW, maybe not for me or you (we have jobs, this is a hobby)

[Agent ONE]

...

Incorrect.

There was a series of Robotech VHS tapes released that had both the Robotech ep and the corresponding "other anime" (Macross, Southern Cross, Mospeada) ep.  Forget the actual title of the series, but it was original voices.

This came sometime after the end of broadcast.  I'd have to take a look for actual dates and it's been too long since I've watched it to give impressions.

I should compare them to my Mospeads DVD set to see just how accurate they were...

I don't know if they actually completed all the tapes in the Macross oportion (for some reason I'm thinking it was cancelled before they got that far) but they did go all the way throught he two later series.

Not that I'm saying that there wasn't a Super Spacefortress Macross - I'm sure there was, but there was this as well.

EDIT - Fine WDC, beat me to it.  I don't care.

I think that WAS (or at least so say HG) the plan, but they were never released.

Agent One, what do you mean, "they were never released"?

Mospeada Tapes on Ebay

Macross Tapes on Ebay

Mix and Match from all three on Ebay

As stated, the Macross ones were never finished, but they were clearly released.

Well ya learn somethin every day! Thanks! I had no clue that these existed!

[cwbrown]

You're welcome.

[Agent ONE]

You're welcome.

How did they get advertised and distributed!?

[cwbrown]

  You're welcome.

How did they get advertised and distributed!?

Beats me. I just know they exist.

Advertising was probably pretty close to nil, or maybe through some word of mouth at conventions and the like. Streamline also probably focused on the largest markets, like LA.

Distribution, who knows.

Anyone else with a better answer?

[SuperOstrich]

I bought every tape of the Macross Saga Perfect Collection as they were released. They were actually quite widely available. Every anime store I frequented had them in stock. Even the local Suncoast carried them. They could be ordered from Diamond.

[treatment]

Yeah. I remember seeing those Perfect Collection vhs in the video-aisles of the old Incredible Universe megastores (now Fry's) and Suncoast in the mid-90's.

There were no TV ads or posters or anything, tho. They were just there.

[1st Border Red Devil]

"Produced By:" Has Mainichi Broadcast System, Tatsunoko Productions and Animefriend.

If it has Tatsunoko in the Production Credits...then Kenji Yoshida and Ippei Kuri/Toyoharu Yoshida were involved. They are the senior most members of the Tatsunoko family considering it was their older brother Tatsuo that formed Tatsunoko. They would have been two people getting their shareholders to cough up dough for the episode.

Tatsunoko Company Profile from Fan Club Webpage

[wrylac]

It's fairly common in syndicated television that not every aspect of production gets credited.

[bandit29]

So besides the endless arguments and speculations of the same old nonsense, is there anything new going on with this mess?

[Abombz!!]

It's fairly common in syndicated television that not every aspect of production gets credited.

Yeah.... but one would think that the mech designer for 1/3rd of the series would.

So besides the endless arguments and speculations of the same old nonsense, is there anything new going on with this mess?

This thread turned stale since someone first got a translationg of the court rulling. As far as what goes here.... no one is arguing.... everyone is simply guessing whats going to happen, whats supposed to happen, and what already happened. <_<

Edited October 16, 2003 by Abombz!!

[wrylac]

It's fairly common in syndicated television that not every aspect of production gets credited.

Yeah.... but one would think that the mech designer for 1/3rd of the series would.

So besides the endless arguments and speculations of the same old nonsense, is there anything new going on with this mess?

This thread turned stale since someone first got a translationg of the court rulling. As far as what goes here.... no one is arguing.... everyone is simply guessing whats going to happen, whats supposed to happen, and what already happened.

I've worked on shows that simply give the copyright title at the end of the show and no one gets credited at all.

[Jemstone]

Are some of you saying you actually had no idea about the Perfect Collection tapes? They were all over the place when they were released. They were at every anime store I stepped foot in. Advertised in at least Protoculture Addicts and even on the back of Robotech Pefect CD soundtrack. Unbelievable.

Any of you who ahve the Robotech soundtrack set open it up and look at the inner back page. You'll see a VHS set ad with Misa/Lisa and Hikaru/Rick from episode 27 in black and white.

Mind you, I think the original year of release for the CD was 1996 or as early as 95. Streamline distributed the Perfect Collection VHS sets. (May have distributed the first set of the CDs too)

Edited October 16, 2003 by Jemstone

[SuperOstrich]

You guys realize that Kawamori played a MUCH bigger role than simply mecha designer, right? He practically came up the the entire concept for the show! What is he credited with in the original Japanese credits? Just mecha designer?

[cwbrown]

You guys realize that Kawamori played a MUCH bigger role than simply mecha designer, right? He practically came up the the entire concept for the show! What is he credited with in the original Japanese credits? Just mecha designer?

Almost. He was also credited with Assistant Animation Director on Ep 27 (according to Animeigo).

Animeigo's Liner Notes

Now, why Kenji Yoshida and Ippei Kuri are not listed at all, I don't know.

[TheLoneWolf]

According to Macek (Robotech Art 1), "Ippei Kuri" was the pen name of Anime Friend's president.

[SuperOstrich]

Very smart to use a pen name.

[Roy Focker]

You guys realize that Kawamori played a MUCH bigger role than simply mecha designer, right? He practically came up the the entire concept for the show! What is he credited with in the original Japanese credits? Just mecha designer?

According to the Compedium:

The Super Dimension Fortress:

Macross Creator*, Production Supervisor*, Mecha Design, Storyboard*, Script (episode 36)

*Under pseudonym Eiji Kurokawa.

Sounds like a pretty big role to me.

[Abombz!!]

I'm aware of how big his role was. I simply pointed mech design because its the most obvious part of the work that was carried over into RT (one could argue that without the story board there would be no animation, but that would be easy to dismiss).

[Pat Payne]

If you mean crediting the creators in the actual show itself...do you realise how long the credits would have been?

Credit where it's due, pal. If it weren't for them, there would be no Robotech.

Just to satisfy my curiosity, Pat, who would you have credited?

The reason I ask is that there were some credits for the original animation in the series. I actually asked this on the old thread, and I don't think anyone ever gave me an answer.

This is from the RT episode "Blue Wind", episode 13:

Original animation produced by Tatsunoko Productions [with TP's full formal name]

Producer Kenji Yoshida

Director Ippei Kuri

Is this information accurate? Is it misleading? I ask from the standpoint of the original Macross eps. I don't own them (hopefully "yet", they're expensive), so I don't know how the credits even went on the original eps. But, from the standpoint of "credit where credit is due" I think that including the original director and producer (while maybe not "enough") was fair and didn't completely hide where RT came from. Could they have included BW and SN as "character designers"? Sure. But, they also didn't list Anime Fiend as the animators in any of the eps, AFAIK.

Sorry I didn't get back until now, but I've been busy at work.

I would have credited Shoji Kawamori, Haruhiko Mikimoto, Kazutake Miyatake, Kenichi Matsutake, Noburo Ishiguro, and the other people who wrote, animated, directed and otherwise created the episodes. I would have done exactly what they did with Star Blazers -- credit fully the staff from both sides of the Pacific who were responsible for the shows.

And you're right there were, but those were just the Tatsunoko producers, not the scriptwriters, mecha designers, character designer, series director. Nope. Either those credits are conspicuously missing, or they're names of the re-writers (actually should be ADR writers) who deserve credit as well, but not for the actual writing of the episodes' plotlines.

[Abombz!!]

You know what the problem is? They should have created 3 different intros, instead of 1 single intro. One for each part of the show. it would've been easy to manage crediting everyone that worked either in the original shows or on putting RT together.

EDIT: spelling

Edited October 17, 2003 by Abombz!!

[Jemstone]

You know what the problem is? They should have created 3 different intros, instead of 1 single intro. One for each part of the show. it would've been easy to manage crediting everyone that worked either in the original shows or on putting RT together.

EDIT: spelling

That and simply using smaller fonts in the closing credits... There is no excuse for not giving credit where it is due. I have yet to see character or mecha designs credited in even the comic books unless I've missed them.