Robotech and HG license debates

[azrael]

So, when do we go over to Robotech.com and beat them up *cracks knuckles* I hate those damn socias!!

You're welcome to go over there to start trouble by yourself. The rest of us will be standing right here, out of the line of fire.

[kensei]

With the court, are they leaning to any one side at the moment? (just curious?)

[TheLoneWolf]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't one of the ruling's state that while TP/HG is able to exploit the characters and mecha in Macross (merchandise-wise), they cannot create derivatives from said characters and mecha?

[trueblueeyes]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't one of the ruling's state that while TP/HG is able to exploit the characters and mecha in Macross (merchandise-wise), they cannot create derivatives from said characters and mecha?

I believe you are correct about that. However, this "YF-1R" isn't exactly a new derivative. Thanks to Animefiend it did appear in at least one clip. So...animation error?...Yes Monstrosity?...Yes. New derivative? Technically...No. However, hopefully we won't see any more "mutants" in the VF line that didn't appear in the series! (That is if we are both right about HG's in-ability to create any new derivatives)

Edited October 14, 2003 by trueblueeyes

[cwbrown]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't one of the ruling's state that while TP/HG is able to exploit the characters and mecha in Macross (merchandise-wise), they cannot create derivatives from said characters and mecha?

No, it didn't. Neither decision said anything explicit about the derivatives at all. People here have interpreted the copyright split to come out either way on which company has what rights to make derivatives (and, more to the point, release them internationally).

You can read the two district court cases in only the last few pages pretty easily. The oldest one is above, and the newer one is only a few pages back (or look at Wrylac's sig since he links to them both).

[wrylac]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't one of the ruling's state that while TP/HG is able to exploit the characters and mecha in Macross (merchandise-wise), they cannot create derivatives from said characters and mecha?

No, it didn't. Neither decision said anything explicit about the derivatives at all. People here have interpreted the copyright split to come out either way on which company has what rights to make derivatives (and, more to the point, release them internationally).

You can read the two district court cases in only the last few pages pretty easily. The oldest one is above, and the newer one is only a few pages back (or look at Wrylac's sig since he links to them both).

I'd love to see what cwbrown has to say about what is implied in the Jan03 ruling.

[the white drew carey]

I believe you are correct about that. However, this "YF-1R" isn't exactly a new derivative. Thanks to Animefiend it did appear in at least one clip. So...animation error?...Yes Monstrosity?...Yes. New derivative? Technically...No. However, hopefully we won't see any more "mutants" in the VF line that didn't appear in the series! (That is if we are both right about HG's in-ability to create any new derivatives)

Once again...

The YF-1R IS a derivative.

The details of the head of the YF-1R are much different than the animation error.

The animation error is simply a VF-1A with two extra lasers coming from the side, ala' VF-1J.

Whereas the YF-1R does keep that feature, it also sports a hexagonal faceplate, a "chin" of sorts and small vents on each side of the chin.

'The animation error had nothing of the sort, hence, the YF-1R is a derivative.

[cwbrown]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't one of the ruling's state that while TP/HG is able to exploit the characters and mecha in Macross (merchandise-wise), they cannot create derivatives from said characters and mecha?

No, it didn't. Neither decision said anything explicit about the derivatives at all. People here have interpreted the copyright split to come out either way on which company has what rights to make derivatives (and, more to the point, release them internationally).

You can read the two district court cases in only the last few pages pretty easily. The oldest one is above, and the newer one is only a few pages back (or look at Wrylac's sig since he links to them both).

I'd love to see what cwbrown has to say about what is implied in the Jan03 ruling.

So would I.

All I meant is that the decisions did not say "the derivatives belong to X". That's explicit. To go anywhere else with the decision requires understanding Japanese copyright law to draw the conclusion of what the case means, not just what it says. Now, for myself, that would require a major three step process. One, understanding copyright law at all. Two, understanding Japanese copyright law. Three, melding those into some cohesive group.

I don't have a strong understanding of copyright law at all (or pretty much any intellectual property law). It's a big area of law to learn, and I don't have the energy or the resources being outside of law school. Learning Japanese copyright law would require that much more work. And no, the statutes alone aren't really sufficient. I would also need to understand case law for how those statutes have been applied and interpreted (Japan being a civil code country notwithstanding, which would just be one more layer of understanding I would need). I can't translate enough cases to do research to figure it all out.

The meaning behind the first case I got translated came from a Japanese professor who was on exchange at my law school. I believe he is back in Japan now. The translation came from a Japanese student in my law school. I've lost touch with her, although when I can get her email address, I'll try to reach her to re-connect that network, and maybe then I will be able to post some meaning of the Jan '03 case. Who really knows.

This whole thing has become pretty low priority to me. The international release of anything new that is Macross related may or may not happen. I don't know who's fault it is, and I don't really care anymore. Both companies seem to want to have releases, but can't figure out how to make it happen. So, I will deal with what I have and what I can get (limited funding being the biggest factor). If I get the energy to do more, I will.

[91WhiskeyM6]

Well, if Toynami/HG can create a derivative "VF-1R", why doesn't Yamato just make one for laughs(and stick it to HG). I'd buy one from Yamato in 1/60 or 1/48 scale.

Edited October 14, 2003 by 91WhiskeyM6

[1st Border Red Devil]

Well, if Toynami/HG can create a derivative "VF-1R", why doesn't Yamato just make one for laughs(and stick it to HG). I'd buy one from Yamato in 1/60 or 1/48 scale.

As far as Ive read...Yamato could do that...they just can't distribute internationally without going through Tatsunoko and Harmony Gold.

[cwbrown]

Well, if Toynami/HG can create a derivative "VF-1R", why doesn't Yamato just make one for laughs(and stick it to HG). I'd buy one from Yamato in 1/60 or 1/48 scale.

Because Yamato doesn't want to, perhaps?

Just because one can do something (even legally speaking), doesn't mean one must or even will do something.

Yamato (and likely BW) has a bunch of other priorities that it is interested in, and making a toy out of an animation mistake is probably not one of them.

[tom64ss]

Well, if Toynami/HG can create a derivative "VF-1R", why doesn't Yamato just make one for laughs(and stick it to HG). I'd buy one from Yamato in 1/60 or 1/48 scale.

'cuz it's fugly.

[EXO]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't one of the ruling's state that while TP/HG is able to exploit the characters and mecha in Macross (merchandise-wise), they cannot create derivatives from said characters and mecha?

I believe you are correct about that. However, this "YF-1R" isn't exactly a new derivative. Thanks to Animefiend it did appear in at least one clip. So...animation error?...Yes Monstrosity?...Yes. New derivative? Technically...No. However, hopefully we won't see any more "mutants" in the VF line that didn't appear in the series! (That is if we are both right about HG's in-ability to create any new derivatives)

DOh! You made post in this thread, something I swore never to do!!!

...but I have question relating what TBE stated. I don't remember, but IIRC, the Orguss Vakyrie appears in the series also doesn't it? Does that mean HG/Toynami are within their (so called) rights to expoit it? And all the "in" jokes that they included that were purposely done and wasn't an anime-friend goof up?

[Mechafan]

...but I have question relating what TBE stated. I don't remember, but IIRC, the Orguss Vakyrie appears in the series also doesn't it? Does that mean HG/Toynami are within their (so called) rights to expoit it? And all the "in" jokes that they included that were purposely done and wasn't an anime-friend goof up?

Yep it had a brief 5 seconds in one episode. It was shooting at the enemy then got blown up.

[1st Border Red Devil]

Yep it had a brief 5 seconds in one episode. It was shooting at the enemy then got blown up.

No...it had 2 scenes of being blown up. Once in Force of Arms and the other in To the Stars. Also, its not really an Orguss...its a Valkyrie "dressed up" to look like an Orguss. In Robotech it would be a prototype armor variant for use in Atmospheric and Space Ops.

[EXO]

Yep it had a brief 5 seconds in one episode.  It was shooting at the enemy then got blown up.

No...it had 2 scenes of being blown up. Once in Force of Arms and the other in To the Stars. Also, its not really an Orguss...its a Valkyrie "dressed up" to look like an Orguss.

I didn't say it was an Orguss. I called it by what people have been calling it.

In Robotech it would be a prototype armor variant for use in Atmospheric and Space Ops.

Is that a yes?

[ewilen]

...but I have question relating what TBE stated. I don't remember, but IIRC, the Orguss Vakyrie appears in the series also doesn't it? Does that mean HG/Toynami are within their (so called) rights to expoit it?

I'm sure HG/Toynami have just as much a right to do an Orguss Valkyrie toy as they do to make a YF-1R. Possibly more, since it's been pointed out that the YF-1R's design isn't exactly what is shown in SDF Macross. But I doubt HG/Toynami would ever make it, since it looks funny and has little significance to the Robotech fanbase. Now, if Yamato made an Orguss Valkyrie, it would be a cool toy that might even have a market. (Kanata67 is likely to beat them to it, though.)

And all the "in" jokes that they included that were purposely done and wasn't an anime-friend goof up?

I can just imagine HG/Toynami making a handheld "SDF-1 Bridge Viewscreen" game on which you can play that old Star Trek game.

[cwbrown]

Yep it had a brief 5 seconds in one episode.  It was shooting at the enemy then got blown up.

No...it had 2 scenes of being blown up. Once in Force of Arms and the other in To the Stars. Also, its not really an Orguss...its a Valkyrie "dressed up" to look like an Orguss.

I didn't say it was an Orguss. I called it by what people have been calling it.

In Robotech it would be a prototype armor variant for use in Atmospheric and Space Ops.

Is that a yes?

I'm thinking there's probably a "no" hidden in copyright law somewhere, mainly fair use (assuming something similar exists in Japanese copyright law).

Fair use in the US would allow the use of the characters and mecha in a "parody", which, as I understand, was what Macross was intended to be. Thus, Studio Nue, et al, could use those characters as part of the "joke".

However, trying to exploit that parody any further (through products, etc) would violate the fair use of those items for the parody (again, as I understand how it would work, I'm not an IP lawyer).

[ewilen]

I see your point, cwbrown, and I agree with it. I guess we'll have to rely on the customizers.

Edited October 15, 2003 by ewilen

[muswp1]

In Robotech it would be a prototype armor variant for use in Atmospheric and Space Ops.

1BRD, let's not give the chimps running HG any ideas. Those guys could screw up a wet dream.

[muswp1]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't one of the ruling's state that while TP/HG is able to exploit the characters and mecha in Macross (merchandise-wise), they cannot create derivatives from said characters and mecha?

No, it didn't. Neither decision said anything explicit about the derivatives at all. People here have interpreted the copyright split to come out either way on which company has what rights to make derivatives (and, more to the point, release them internationally).

You can read the two district court cases in only the last few pages pretty easily. The oldest one is above, and the newer one is only a few pages back (or look at Wrylac's sig since he links to them both).

I'd love to see what cwbrown has to say about what is implied in the Jan03 ruling.

Hey wrlac, no flamebaiting please. I really don't want to see this thread get as ugly as the other one did.

[Druna Skass]

With the YF-1R being a derivative, wasn't there something in the old thread that said they could do the 1R but nothing else, since the 1R was concived before the ruling that gave all design elements to BW?

[wrylac]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't one of the ruling's state that while TP/HG is able to exploit the characters and mecha in Macross (merchandise-wise), they cannot create derivatives from said characters and mecha?

No, it didn't. Neither decision said anything explicit about the derivatives at all. People here have interpreted the copyright split to come out either way on which company has what rights to make derivatives (and, more to the point, release them internationally).

You can read the two district court cases in only the last few pages pretty easily. The oldest one is above, and the newer one is only a few pages back (or look at Wrylac's sig since he links to them both).

I'd love to see what cwbrown has to say about what is implied in the Jan03 ruling.

Hey wrlac, no flamebaiting please. I really don't want to see this thread get as ugly as the other one did.

That was anything but a flame bait. cwbrown and I have a good relationship, he was the very first person to see the translation Naoko did for me, and he knows that my post was simply an attempt to draw out a legal analysis on the Jan03 ruling from him, as he is a lawyer.

[cwbrown]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't one of the ruling's state that while TP/HG is able to exploit the characters and mecha in Macross (merchandise-wise), they cannot create derivatives from said characters and mecha?

No, it didn't. Neither decision said anything explicit about the derivatives at all. People here have interpreted the copyright split to come out either way on which company has what rights to make derivatives (and, more to the point, release them internationally).

You can read the two district court cases in only the last few pages pretty easily. The oldest one is above, and the newer one is only a few pages back (or look at Wrylac's sig since he links to them both).

I'd love to see what cwbrown has to say about what is implied in the Jan03 ruling.

Hey wrlac, no flamebaiting please. I really don't want to see this thread get as ugly as the other one did.

That was anything but a flame bait. cwbrown and I have a good relationship, he was the very first person to see the translation Naoko did for me, and he knows that my post was simply an attempt to draw out a legal analysis on the Jan03 ruling from him, as he is a lawyer.

Ditto.

[kensei]

Yep it had a brief 5 seconds in one episode.  It was shooting at the enemy then got blown up.

No...it had 2 scenes of being blown up. Once in Force of Arms and the other in To the Stars. Also, its not really an Orguss...its a Valkyrie "dressed up" to look like an Orguss. In Robotech it would be a prototype armor variant for use in Atmospheric and Space Ops.

Three. One also in Battlecry.

Edited October 15, 2003 by kensei

[TheLoneWolf]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't one of the ruling's state that while TP/HG is able to exploit the characters and mecha in Macross (merchandise-wise), they cannot create derivatives from said characters and mecha?

I believe you are correct about that. However, this "YF-1R" isn't exactly a new derivative. Thanks to Animefiend it did appear in at least one clip. So...animation error?...Yes Monstrosity?...Yes. New derivative? Technically...No. However, hopefully we won't see any more "mutants" in the VF line that didn't appear in the series! (That is if we are both right about HG's in-ability to create any new derivatives)

That was actually going to be my second point. For the same reasons you listed above, I wouldn't consider the YF-1R a derivative. *But*, the Jack Archer color scheme is. cwbrown, thank you for you insights into copyright law. I was just wondering if HG had overstepped it's jurisdiction with the new color scheme.

[91WhiskeyM6]

Check out Mechmaster's work:

This is our patriotic stance against HG

Edited October 15, 2003 by 91WhiskeyM6

[pfunk]

well,

personally I like robotech causse they had the guts to release something that didnt have a fan base at all and invested large suns of cash to do this. Granted for public(MW) appeal Big West shouldve done this, its really thier baby, but they allowed for this to happen cause of fear maybe( loss of revinue)? either way, it is what it is. I like the fact that HG exists, I wouldve never know about the greatness and talent that exhisted in macross in the 80's and probably never would. I really like MW over RT.com in the pure sence that they dont have to cater to a givin company.

Now its 20+ years later and everyone hates HG cause they dont want to let thier "investment" go. Personally who cares. Just so you can get toys. We have the means to buy and see what we like (internet) and bring people together on a common base. Just make this known to the people that loved RT thier love for that show is bassed off someone elses talent and stories. Dont get hostle twards poeple cause the dont know any better, Thats like beating the crap outta your kid cause they arnt potti trained yet, that makes you worse than them. everyone has a choice, let them make it for themselves, sit back and watch. Get a little smarter.

[Radd]

Pfunk, I think you're missing a couple points here.

personally I like robotech causse they had the guts to release something that didnt have a fan base at all and invested large suns of cash to do this.

You could say that about almost any show, as there's very few shows that air with any sort of fan base already present and most shows require huge sums of cash to get started.

Granted for public(MW) appeal Big West shouldve done this, its really thier baby, but they allowed for this to happen cause of fear maybe( loss of revinue)? either way, it is what it is.

Almost no japanese studio takes it upon themselves to distribute their shows internationally. They're pretty much all licensed by an American company who thinks the show will sell. Gainax didn't release Evagelion in the United States, Sunrise didn't release Cowboy Bebop in the USA, why should we blame Big West for not opening up shop in the US to release Macross here themselves when almost no one else does that either?

Even Tatsunoko doesn't distribute their own stuff in the United States, they leave that up to distribution companies like Harmony Gold.

People aren't upset at Harmony Gold because 'cause they dont want to let thier "investment" go', Macross fans are upset at HG for attempting to block other Macross shows and merchandise from becoming readily available at domestic prices for the international Macross fanbase. Many feel that HG is employing questionable business practices and hurting the fans in the process.

Sure, we can download or buy bootlegs of any Macross derivative to come out of Japan, and even buy a couple of them here legitimately. Sure, we can order Yamato's wonderful toys over the internet. Call me crazy, but I'd rather have a legitimate R1 DVD release of Macross Zero, and I'd be much happier paying 30 bucks less and not having to shell out for shipping on top of it when it comes to buying Yamato's toys. I might be strange, but I like paying less and getting more. It's weird, I know. Harmony Gold is preventing this right now. Not only that, but then they release an arguably lesser quality toy and charge much more money for it than we are even paying at Japanese prices with shipping tacked on for many of our Yamato's.

Perhaps HG is in the legal right, perhaps not. We'll most likely find out in time, but right now most fans only know that HG is preventing them from getting Macross merchandise, or at the very least preventing them from getting that merchandise at a lesser cost, and preventing Macross from becoming even more popular with the mainstream (in the USA at least) with a wide release. That is the basis for most of the bad feelings towards Harmony Gold.

[Pat Payne]

well, personally I like robotech causse they had the guts to release something that didnt have a fan base at all and invested large suns of cash to do this.

A lot of groups have done this at one time or another. Believe it or not, people can see an unknown quantity and see potential (good or ill) in it. Take a look at Star Trek. NBC could just have well said: "aw, nobody's gonna watch that space crap. Roddenberry, send us a western!" after the first pilot. The Strand Magazine could have rejected the works of an unknown writer, Arthur Conan-Doyle and his fictional detective, Sherlock Holmes, if not for an editor who saw promise. And HG didn't even take that leap. They saw that Macross was a minor phenomenom in Japan, and thought that the success could be replicated in the US.

Now I'm not saying that opprobrium should be heaped upon HG for scouting Japanese anime and finding one that they thought would sell, but neither should they be praised as a group of otaku Nostradami for doing what they're being paid for.

Granted for public(MW) appeal Big West shouldve done this, its really thier baby, but they allowed for this to happen cause of fear maybe( loss of revinue)?

Nope, it was that back then, the US market was a small sideline. Anime was the province of a closed system of fans (the successes of Astro Boy (Tetsuwan Atom), Speed Racer (Mach Go Go Go) and Star Blazers (Uchuu Senkan Yamato) notwithstanding) and so the Japanese paid it no never mind. The actual launching of anime as a full-blown thread in the US's own cultural fabric didn't really begin until the '90s. In short, BW shoulda known, granted. However, neither did they or any other Japanese anime licensor see any promise in the market.

  either way, it is what it is. I like the fact that HG exists, I wouldve never know about the greatness and talent that exhisted in macross in the 80's and probably never would. I really like MW over RT.com in the pure sence that they dont have to cater to a givin company.

I have to say, that makes one of us. This may sound presumptious, but what HG (and quote a few other anime inporters of the time) did was kind of like taking Homer's Oddessey and saying: "Let's try to improve it by intercutting it with Beowulf and the Tale of the Heike and then take all the credit." My main beef against HG is twofold:

1) They gave no credit to any of the original writers, directors, etc., without whom there would be no Macross--let alone Robotech. This doesn't extend, if the judgement about copyrights is correct, to BW.

2) They needlessly shoehorned Macross into a newly-written storyline that held only passing similarity to the original show. It would have been far better if, as they say, they needed the 65 eps for syndication, to make it an anthology of three shows under the Robotech label that had no connection to one another.

Now its 20+ years later and everyone hates HG cause they dont want to let thier "investment" go. Personally who cares. Just so you can get toys. We have the means to buy and see what we like (internet) and bring people together on a common base.

Personally, I don't "hate" HG. In fact, I am glad that they did allow Animeigo to release SDF:M with their full cooperation and minimal editorial interference. I am concerned with thir business practices and their aggrandizing of derivatives that may not belong to them based solely on their (increasingly verified) ownership of the license to SDF: Macross. I am concerned that they are trying to block the other Macross programs from coming here because they insist that they own them. And outside of SDF:M, they have no "investment." They didn't pour cent one into Macross: DYRL, Macross Flashback 2102, Macross Plus, Macross 7, Macross 7 Trash, Macross 7 Dynamite, or Macross Zero. Other than DYRL (in which they did have a small amount of input), Tatsunoko had nothing to do with any other Macross sequel. Tatsunoko has no "investment" outside of SDF:M.

Just make this known to the people that loved RT thier love for that show is bassed off someone elses talent and stories.

We can tell them that all we like, but there are people who won't believe it unless Carl Macek himself were to come clean and actually use the name "Shoji Kawamori" in a sentence.

Thats like beating the crap outta your kid cause they arnt potti trained yet

I refuse to dignify this with a comment.

Dont get hostle twards poeple cause the dont know any better,

Try dealing with some of the flamers who come here from RT.com (Wrylac heartily excluded--he's actually here to debate ) on a semi-regular basis with poor Internet skills and a fervent belief that if HG loses, RT will disappear forever. Then see how charitable you are.

[1st Border Red Devil]

We can tell them that all we like, but there are people who won't believe it unless Carl Macek himself were to come clean and actually use the name "Shoji Kawamori" in a sentence.

Ok...I actually have to take umbrage with that statement. Kawamori and HAL got ALL the credit from Robotech At 1 onwards. Not one time were ANY of the animators or developers of Southern Cross or Mospeada mentioned. If anyone should be bitching about lack of credit, it should be the Mospeada and Southern Cross fans. Harmony Gold has always said that Robotech was made of 3 separate shows. I knew that as early as 1987 (when I really got introduced to it through the RPG).

If you mean crediting the creators in the actual show itself...do you realise how long the credits would have been?

[Pat Payne]

If you mean crediting the creators in the actual show itself...do you realise how long the credits would have been?

Credit where it's due, pal. If it weren't for them, there would be no Robotech.

[pfunk]

You can try to show the ignorant, but you cant teach the stupid or bullheaded.

If none of the Japaniese companies didnt want to show thier shows to create a fan base, Then why should they be allowed to sell thier product as a derivitive of that show. They would just be doing it for the money and who took the 1st step in business to release the show, HG in the case of Macross, so they should get a fairly large kickback from those companies that want to sell here. It is only fair. And that kick back was probably more than what those companies wanted to handle. Take the automotive market for example. Tha Japaniese goverment paid for all the taxes and tariffs because a free trade agreement didnt exist between the USA and Japan. Now that they are allowed to build factories in the US and sell thier vehical as US made and avoid all the Tariffs that were thier before, they are makeing money and dont need the thier goverments help (THANKS CLINTON BTW). Now the japaniese with the help of the goverment have the ability to purchase any of the "big 3". And pretty it isnt. When Benz supposedly "merged" with Chrystler, They took all the high paying jobs back to Germany and fired the rest (thats a whole other debate). Same goes with toys though. It is very expensive and political to start something over here and most businesses arnt ready to forfit what they have allready, or give a peice of the pie. Kinda like once your in, your in. In other words, distributorship lies within one company for each product and the only way we'll see those toys and goods over here is if they reach some type of agreement (BW and HG) or BW gives HG enough cash per item to satisfy the beast. Its been this long, I really dont think that anything is going to happen. So yes we will have to pay for shipping to recive the items we have come to enjoy. Think of how they feel about some of our cloths. Japan for example and Australia too, AND they are produced right next door.

Sum it up,

YES, Macross would do VERY WELL here as far as a fan base, Anime is very popular now,

Will it happen,,,I say no, its all about the cash and thiers nothing we can do about it. petition all you want, unless everyone sends large amounts of cash and promisses for all thier business in the future, nothing will happen. OMO wasted breath

[1 VF-1 2NV]

I don't know if this belongs here but I think this place is appropriate . I was readind a post in another section of this forum (toys/yf-1r? head) and came across a reply from kanata67?:

Hopefully when the alpha MPC is released and HG wants to export it to places of great demand they might lossen the choke hold on valk import to the states.

My questions are do you guys/gals think if there is demand say in Japan, can HG export their alpha MPC line of toys internationally? Will Yamato?/HG? resolve their differences or agree on anything that will allow them to distribute their products worldwide? I'd like to see Yamato toys released here in the states so everyone here dosen't have to pay high prices.

Edited October 16, 2003 by 1 VF-1 2NV

[the white drew carey]

You can try to show the ignorant, but you cant teach the stupid or bullheaded.

If none of the Japaniese companies didnt want to show thier shows to create a fan base, Then why should they be allowed to sell thier product as a derivitive of that show. They would just be doing it for the money and who took the 1st step in business to release the show, HG in the case of Macross, so they should get a fairly large kickback from those companies that want to sell here. It is only fair. And that kick back was probably more than what those companies wanted to handle. Take the automotive market for example. Tha Japaniese goverment paid for all the taxes and tariffs because a free trade agreement didnt exist between the USA and Japan. Now that they are allowed to build factories in the US and sell thier vehical as US made and avoid all the Tariffs that were thier before, they are makeing money and dont need the thier goverments help (THANKS CLINTON BTW). Now the japaniese with the help of the goverment have the ability to purchase any of the "big 3". And pretty it isnt. When Benz supposedly "merged" with Chrystler, They took all the high paying jobs back to Germany and fired the rest (thats a whole other debate). Same goes with toys though. It is very expensive and political to start something over here and most businesses arnt ready to forfit what they have allready, or give a peice of the pie. Kinda like once your in, your in. In other words, distributorship lies within one company for each product and the only way we'll see those toys and goods over here is if they reach some type of agreement (BW and HG) or BW gives HG enough cash per item to satisfy the beast. Its been this long, I really dont think that anything is going to happen. So yes we will have to pay for shipping to recive the items we have come to enjoy. Think of how they feel about some of our cloths. Japan for example and Australia too, AND they are produced right next door.

Sum it up,

YES, Macross would do VERY WELL here as far as a fan base, Anime is very popular now,

Will it happen,,,I say no, its all about the cash and thiers nothing we can do about it. petition all you want, unless everyone sends large amounts of cash and promisses for all thier business in the future, nothing will happen. OMO wasted breath

Ummm... I think you're missing a very big, and important chunk of the story here.

You do realise that BigWest was not the company in charge of the overseas aspect of the Macross TV series? Tatsunoko holds the international distribution rights to the SDF: Macross TV series as per the memorandum.

Arguing whether or not BigWest "screwed up" (which is basically what your saying) and that HG "heroically" stepped in and gave the world Macross is a moot point at best.

BigWest knew then, as they know now, that the distribution of the original TV series was always out of their hands.

True, at the time they probably didn't care too much for the int'l market. The simple fact that both the TV series and DYRL were hacked up and screwed over by the first companies outside of Japan to license them probably didn't help matters.

It wasn't until fans who were also business-people started to import Anime while faithfully, at least in the attempt , keeping the stories intact did anime actually start to grow as a viable market here in the U.S. That, coupled with Macross' surprising popularity in the face of Robotech, was probably what convinced BigWest that it was time for the franchise to leave the nest as it was meant to seen- as Macross.

If none of the Japaniese companies didnt want to show thier shows to create a fan base, Then why should they be allowed to sell thier product as a derivitive of that show. They would just be doing it for the money and who took the 1st step in business to release the show, HG in the case of Macross, so they should get a fairly large kickback from those companies that want to sell here.

I'm sorry this statement seems like it came from an HG glory hound. You seem to be making a lot of statements for someone who isn't showing much knowledge of RT's history and/or general business practices.

A- Business such as you're describing is all done by licensing and other carefully thought out factors. Not by kickbacks because "we released it first."

B- HG was all about money.

Carl Macek was probably the only person who cared to some degree about the anime itself. HG, on the other hand, got a package deal from Tatsunoko with the three series they made into Robotech.

"Robotech" itself was made up by Revell, who had purchased the distribution rights for many model kitsbased on mecha from anime. HG "went along" with Revell in order to secure an immediate tie-in with their products.

Edited October 16, 2003 by the white drew carey