Robotech and HG license debates

[DarrinG]

All I can say is that I'm straight - with 4 kids and my wife is voluptuous.

But I was very disappointed in the SC character designs for the reasons I pointed out above.

OK maybe the robot would be stacked but the rest were just ridiculous.

I'm not just HG bashing as so many posters here do. I hope they do extremely well on the new things they're working on and get over some of the mistakes they've made.

I am an example of their target audience in many ways, and I want to provide well-thought-out feedback . . .

[RavenHawk]

Interestingly enough, someone brought up this type of comparison when I was bashing RT:SC on my review. Basically the idea was Robotech was as legit as SRW. Having had the chance to play translated SRW games (non Original Generation of course) I can tell you those games are like the worst fanfic mashups ever. They're fun to play, but when you have Roy Focker being chums with Monsha from Gundam 0083 and the Titans from Zeta Gundam taking over the Macross, the entire story becomes an exercise in what more ridiculous twists can be made by the end.

Maybe it's a good thing Tatsunoko never lets any Japanese game makers do anything with Mospeada and Southern Cross lest the Robotech fans get even more confused.

Is that why we don't have any MOSPEADA games? Because Tatsunoko doesn't allow it? See, if we had SOME sort of continuation of MOSPEADA, it might finally keep me away from Robotech...

(That's why I started a thread about how disappointed I am in Robotech: Shadow Chronicles, because it is the only place I can get my MOSPEADA fix... which Taksraven still insists was me just baiting for more Shadow Chronicles bashing, which it wasn't)

I think that its more a case of Japanese game makers not being interested in doing anything with two *very* obscure programs, rather than Tatsunoko not letting them.

Taksraven

While that does make more sense to me, we did have that TERRIBLE Megazone 23 game for PS3 not too long ago... is MOSPEADA really that much more obscure than Megazone?

What's really hilarious about Robotech 3000 is that even by the standards of the day, the show's CGI was embarassingly bad. Didn't they blame the project's cancellation on their animators, Netter Digital?

Harmony Gold's really good at passing the blame when something goes wrong. When Robotech II: the Sentinels fell apart, they blamed Matchbox and the exchange rate. When Robotech: the Untold Story went under, they blamed the changes from "Carl Macek's vision for the movie". It's pretty obvious that if when the live-action movie bombs, Maguire Entertainment are the designated fall guys. I wonder who they'll blame if Robotech: Shadow Rising tanks?

Well, I think the Robotech: The Movie: The Untold Story excuse may be someone legitimate. Having seen the thing, and read the descriptions of the original treatment, which was just to be Megazone 23: Part 1, dubbed and with some passing references to make it sound like it fit within the Robotech universe and was set on Earth (much more like the original plot for Megazone actually was, in fact), I do actually buy that if it had been done as Macek first wrote it, and had not been advertised at 6am, it might have actually done reasonably well.

[RavenHawk]

All I can say is that I'm straight - with 4 kids and my wife is voluptuous.

But I was very disappointed in the SC character designs for the reasons I pointed out above.

OK maybe the robot would be stacked but the rest were just ridiculous.

I'm not just HG bashing as so many posters here do. I hope they do extremely well on the new things they're working on and get over some of the mistakes they've made.

I am an example of their target audience in many ways, and I want to provide well-thought-out feedback . . .

While we may be in essentially an identical demographic, Tommy CLAIMED that they were advised by their Japanese story advisor (forget his name right now, but SUPPOSEDLY he worked on Southern Cross and MOSPEADA, though I personally think the brilliance in MOSPEADA lay in what came out of ARTMIC, not what was later added in by the producers) to target Shadow Chronicles for a teen audience, rather than us old fogeys in our 30s.

[DarrinG]

I doubt 'teens' bought any SC DVDs. And I'm not sure I'll buy another if the problems aren't fixed.

The stupid purple Maya (or whatever her name was) alpha was the only MPC I did not pre-order and have no intention on buying, whether they fix all the issues or not.

She didn't even rate an an actual character to me - it was like a stupid parody I couldn't wait to be over.

The whole thing needed to have more SOUL or something -

A QUOTE FROM MR. MARCH a few pages back:

"As for critiquing the 2D art, I've never seen animation as sterilized and aesthetically inert as R:SC. It might as well have been "Anime by number."

That goes for the script as well. They aimed at 14 year olds that much is clear. I have not talked to a 14 year old that saw R:SC so I do not know what what they thought of it . . .

[RavenHawk]

I doubt 'teens' bought any SC DVDs. And I'm not sure I'll buy another if the problems aren't fixed.

The stupid purple Maya (or whatever her name was) alpha was the only MPC I did not pre-order and have no intention on buying, whether they fix all the issues or not.

She didn't even rate an an actual character to me - it was like a stupid parody I couldn't wait to be over.

The whole thing needed to have more SOUL or something -

A QUOTE FROM MR. MARCH a few pages back:

"As for critiquing the 2D art, I've never seen animation as sterilized and aesthetically inert as R:SC. It might as well have been "Anime by number."

That goes for the script as well. They aimed at 14 year olds that much is clear. I have not talked to a 14 year old that saw R:SC so I do not know what what they thought of it . . .

I have. I watched it with one of my boys last years year when he was 13. He came into the room a few weeks back (14 now) as I was rewatching it to see if it was any better upon a second viewing. I asked if he wanted to watch it with me. He said, "No, it really wasn't too good."

He then went upstairs to his room and watched Tansformers Gen 1 on dvd, then played Robotech: Battlecry on his PS2.

Seriously.

[Freiflug88]

The whole thing needed to have more SOUL or something

A QUOTE FROM MR. MARCH a few pages back:

"As for critiquing the 2D art, I've never seen animation as sterilized and aesthetically inert as R:SC. It might as well have been "Anime by number."

Personally, I was never bothered by the 2d art looking sterile, the character designs looked like they were lifted from superhero comics to me. On the contrary it was the bland 3d in the background that really got to me. It was obvious nobody even bothered to take a moment to paint over the backgrounds in photoshop or even attempted to render them with RT Battle Cry's pathetic cell shading.

The b-movie acting and hollow lines I think lacks more soul then the actual artwork.

[Mr March]

I am going to say that's not very impressive but I'm not going to shake my head like a puritan either. Sooooo many posts on these forums were dedicated to breast sizes in Frontier. And I am still pissed off that my "sexiest thing in MacF" thread was shut down too.

I have to admit though that sexism and primitive attitudes towards female characters is pretty common in ALL forms of animation.

Taksraven

I don't think that's where people are going with their critical opinions. If Yune had simply been honest and admitted the character designs of R:SC was a sex sell, that would have been fine. Dodging the question and the blame the way he did is the point, not some church lady finger waving.

[Jasonc]

I am going to say that's not very impressive but I'm not going to shake my head like a puritan either. Sooooo many posts on these forums were dedicated to breast sizes in Frontier. And I am still pissed off that my "sexiest thing in MacF" thread was shut down too.

I have to admit though that sexism and primitive attitudes towards female characters is pretty common in ALL forms of animation.

I agree that anime is chaulked full of big boobs, bubbly behinds, yadda yadda. I didn't even have a real problem with it in RTSC, except for two things. 1) they did too much redesign of characters that were already done and there. How hard is it to take an original character design and simply update the face a little to adapt to the new style? 2) The idea that it's not his fault the characters look so crappy, but it was his Korean brothers/sisters just disgust me. Whether it was meant as a joke or not, to be in a "professional" position as he is, and make that comment in an attempt to shift blame really shows the level he would've gone to make a mistake someone else's fault. Maybe it was a joke and he was just trying to think of an answer quickly to a question he didn't expect. Well, whatever happened to a simple honest answer? I mean, what excuse do you give for this? Found this on the net a long time ago, before RTSC even came out. Doesn't this show that it was Tommy's intent to design them from the start? Look at the "Studio" and the artist who drew that?

[Einherjar]

I got the joke, but you know how some Robotech fans think this is serious business. If it didn't stand out so much in the film only a few people would be critical. Plus, way to call attention to stereotypes about Asians and nerds, eh Tommy.

Also, I thought this was a case where you don't explain the (lame) joke, even with its many connotations.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Einherjar

[Jasonc]

Yeah, as a joke amongst friends and stuff, I can see it just fine. no big deal. But, I know quite a few people who were there that got offended. I think it was just more shocking that it was said in a crowd of several hundred people. I could personally careless about the character design, but take responsibility for your own decisions.

[DarrinG]

OK - so its clear he not only designed them, he approved of the animation at every step. & Then felt embarrassed when asked about it.

He likes to draw beautiful women, that is understandable, and he brought a heavy dose of that into Robotech SC.

All that I can understand and will now forgive. Beginner's mistake.

TOMMY - We fans (and the public at large for that matter) can see gigantic boobs in MILLIONS of different places now if we want. We do not need ridiculous overt sexually figures in ANY future project for RB.

I do not remember anything about Ripley's (aliens) or Sarah Connor's (terminator 2) boobs, even though many a tank-top were involved - I do however remember the great script & riveting action that were aimed at 18 to 40 year olds.

Please concentrate on those things going forward. And I encourage whatever personal art you would want to post on a Studio Yune website to go full bore in whatever 'boob-focused' direction you wish.

Thanks - Sincerely, 'A Big Fan Who is Anxious for More Sophisticated Future Projects'

[Jasonc]

Your request, DarrinG, is a valid and simple request. I also believe Tommy is a very good artist, and can do some very good work, as I've seen in the past. Half the problems that they have are self inflicted. Beginner's mistake is even fine. What rubs me and others the wrong way I feel, is the lack of owning up to faults, passing blame, and then making other fans feel isolated when they call them out. You're only a friend until you don't like something they do. That's part of the reason why I severed my ties to them. Even a poor product can be forgiven, but the choices afterward are what determine true character. They, so far, have proven none.

[EXO]

Your request, DarrinG, is a valid and simple request. I also believe Tommy is a very good artist, and can do some very good work, as I've seen in the past. Half the problems that they have are self inflicted. Beginner's mistake is even fine. What rubs me and others the wrong way I feel, is the lack of owning up to faults, passing blame, and then making other fans feel isolated when they call them out. You're only a friend until you don't like something they do. That's part of the reason why I severed my ties to them. Even a poor product can be forgiven, but the choices afterward are what determine true character. They, so far, have proven none.

That's the kinda thing that bothers me about that whole RT.com comradery though... no one speaks about how bad their crap is until they get ostracized from the "insider" group. Being their friends doesn't mean SC was good but no one will say it, I'm not talking about within the circle, but out to anyone else. Once Memo loosens his gripping pucker long enough from their asses (which we know will ever happen) he'd be so bent out of shape too and finally admit that the current stuff is way below par of the what the current anime/manga animation and toys are producing, and most of those things are crap too, but the HG produced merch is is way below the par.

[Macross007]

Now there's a lesson we KNOW Tommy learned. His comic book credits include a stint doing art for Superman, and a Danger Girl miniseries. Between his work for DC, Image, and Harmony Gold, it really calls into question whether he even knows what a real woman looks like, because most of the women he draws seem to be missing fairly vital things like the lower half of their ribcages, and most of the abdominal organs.

It's good to have you with us BlackRose.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Macross007

[Jasonc]

That's the kinda thing that bothers me about that whole RT.com comradery though... no one speaks about how bad their crap is until they get ostracized from the "insider" group. Being their friends doesn't mean SC was good but no one will say it, I'm not talking about within the circle, but out to anyone else. Once Memo loosens his gripping pucker long enough from their asses (which we know will ever happen) he'd be so bent out of shape too and finally admit that the current stuff is way below par of the what the current anime/manga animation and toys are producing, and most of those things are crap too, but the HG produced merch is is way below the par.

That's along the lines as to what we were told as mods over there. I was told things such as hyping up new product, and not saying anything bad about the product. As I was a mod, I was very vocal about speaking my mind, thus those recommendations. I never spoke any trash about any of them, but would simply voice an issue, so on and so forth. Apparently, they didn't like that. Anyways, being vocal about my issues w/ Robotech, then and now, hasn't really changed. It's just more prevailant now, since I am not obligated, and through all that time after RTSC was released, I got to see the "ugly" side of some of its creators.

As for Memo, he doesn't have any fault. He's just a huge fan of Robotech, who is good friends with Tommy. While his intentions are strictly as a fan whom Tommy confides in, I can seperate the two. While I do consider Memo a close acquaintance, Robotech is the one thing that I can now keep seperate. Memo loves Tommy's work, I don't. We agree to disagree on that, and it doesn't interfere with anything else. Although, it does seem that Tommy would prefer that Memo doesn't talk to a few of his older friends regarding Robotech.

[Einherjar]

That's the kinda thing that bothers me about that whole RT.com comradery though... no one speaks about how bad their crap is until they get ostracized from the "insider" group. Being their friends doesn't mean SC was good but no one will say it, I'm not talking about within the circle, but out to anyone else. Once Memo loosens his gripping pucker long enough from their asses (which we know will ever happen) he'd be so bent out of shape too and finally admit that the current stuff is way below par of the what the current anime/manga animation and toys are producing, and most of those things are crap too, but the HG produced merch is is way below the par.

Makes sense, maybe that's why slogans like "We Will Win" have become popular beyond its origins as a song; the general spirit of overcoming a lot of obstacles, inside and outside of the Robotech universe, to get the series the attention they think it deserves. Basically, and not to offend anyone in RL, patriotic garbage for a TV show.

ex. The idea that the core of Robotech is a multi-generational struggle of humanity against all kinds of aliens. Also, notice how most of the characters in Shadow Chronicles are in the military with almost no civilian life portrayed.

Ironically, they tend to tie it to Macross' success when the powers that be leave them with no other choice.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Einherjar

[Freiflug88]

ex. The idea that the core of Robotech is a multi-generational struggle of humanity against all kinds of aliens. Also, notice how most of the characters in Shadow Chronicles are in the military with almost no civilian life portrayed.

That is what makes the spirit of Robotech the polar opposite from Macross spiritually in my eyes. Macross was all about the regular guy who just wanted a normal civilian life and was drawn in as a soldier to a epic conflict. Likewise the Macross city is a reflection of this, despite the radical change civilian life continues as normal as possible with all the amenities and excesses we take for granted. Even the scary enemies turn out to be mutual allies by the end of the story. RSC on the other hand is like Starship troopers and Blue Gender in a PG movie, its everyone being slaughtered at the hands of instectoids in the name of the military machine packed into a campy kid friendly movie.

[Roy Focker]

Boobies in Robotech the Shadow Chronicles? Being so caught up in the story I must have over looked it

[Seto Kaiba]

I see what you mean that the actual VF-4 Production was never animated in the Robotech universe, but I don't think that is reason enough to exclude it from Robotech mecha. If the prototype model itself existed in RT its a small stretch to say that some production model would be built sometime in the RT continuity. Of course if a production design of the VF-4 is shoehorned into the RT corner its just going to be a copy of Macross's design as we all know HG doesn't make anything remotely original except for character designs with big breasts which bring me to this:

Actually, it's a huge stretch to try and fit the production model VF-4 into Robotech, because the official line on the VF-4 in Robotech is that it was NEVER mass-produced, and in fact only one or two prototypes were ever built.

Boobies in Robotech the Shadow Chronicles? Being so caught up in the story I must have over looked it

You, sir, frighten me.

[Mr March]

Boobies in Robotech the Shadow Chronicles? Being so caught up in the story I must have over looked it

LOL! Okay, that one was good.

[BlackRose]

Why didn't Stick/Scott just look like he did in the series or even the art on the DVD cover? Why would Ariel suddenly have 20 pound boobs? The boobs on the robot character weren't enough??! The Maya character design stunk - I would have gone with blue or green hair, or blonde even - not purple hair with a elfin nose. Don;t get me started, its still annoying after all this time.

Tommy Yune has always been good at appealing to sweaty teenagers with holes in their pockets. Because of that, he was probably the best writer and artist the Danger Girl series ever had.

As far as Maia Sterling, he was probably trying to avoid having her actually look like a child of Max and Milia. Harmony Gold might deny that the fallout of the Tatsunoko thing didn't affect them, but their work speaks for itself, and says that they're trying really hard to avoid using anything of Mikimoto's.

Get your hands out of your pants gentlemen at HG! -- we are mostly in our 30s now - we are not 14 going on 12. PLEASE take note of these well thought out criticisms! Please improve these aspects for any SR project, if that is in fact still happening.

Harmony Gold's stated goal for Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles was to attract new viewers to the franchise, and their target demographic was the 13-21 year olds. We all know how hormonal teenage boys are. They'll snap up any show that has a pair of big, jiggling boobs on the cover. Harmony Gold never really understood that their average fan is closing on 30 years old, and for most of that age group such blatant fanservice tends to come across as condescending. I've noticed a lot of the male Robotech fans who try and defend Yune's new, sexier character designs are single, and with no prospects, so that might answer a few nagging questions about why they're so keen on Tommy's designs.

Now I wasn't actually there so I don't know how Tommy actually delivered it, but I think it was just a joke that came out sounding bad. Tommy himself is Korean and everyone knows he was the creative director so when he remarks that "you know how those young Korean guys can draw their women" he is indirectly making fun of himself as a horny guy who draws sexy women because he can.

If that was meant to be a joke at his own expense, the execution was spectacularly poor. It sounds far more like an attempt to avoid taking the blame for turning Robotech into the Tits and Explosions Variety Hour.

is MOSPEADA really that much more obscure than Megazone?

Pretty much so, yes.

Megazone 23 at least got some good trailer exposure. ADV never really did that for Mospeada.

While we may be in essentially an identical demographic, Tommy CLAIMED that they were advised by their Japanese story advisor (forget his name right now, but SUPPOSEDLY he worked on Southern Cross and MOSPEADA, though I personally think the brilliance in MOSPEADA lay in what came out of ARTMIC, not what was later added in by the producers) to target Shadow Chronicles for a teen audience, rather than us old fogeys in our 30s.

They DID have a story adviser, one of the script writers from Genesis Climber Mospeada... Kenji Terada.

It's good to have you with us BlackRose.

I wasn't kidding. I've NEVER met a woman with a figure like the Shadow Chronicles characters who wasn't at least 50% implant. The way he draws women, I'm guessing there are a lot of very overworked chiropractors and masseuses in the REF, because women that slim with breasts that enormous have to have some serious back problems.

Hell, I'm slim enough to cosplay Ishtar and make it look pretty good, and my waist is still probably twice as big around as any of the women in Shadow Chronicles. They're drawn like Barbie dolls, a desperate, single man's fantasy girl.

I will cut Tommy a little slack, because he at least threw in a little bit of beefcake for the female viewers.

ex. The idea that the core of Robotech is a multi-generational struggle of humanity against all kinds of aliens. Also, notice how most of the characters in Shadow Chronicles are in the military with almost no civilian life portrayed.

The real difference there is that in Macross the aliens are portrayed (usually) as being okay people who humanity eventually comes to terms with. In Robotech, the aliens inevitably get wiped out for getting in the way of humanity's manifest destiny. The aliens are always evil in Robotech... and not the ambiguous sort of evil we get these days, the 50's sci-fi serial sort of evil that has them gabbling things like "I'll get you next time!" or "Curses! Foiled again!".

Boobies in Robotech the Shadow Chronicles? Being so caught up in the story I must have over looked it

Let me give you the name and number of a good optometrist.

Edited April 25, 2009 by BlackRose

[Freiflug88]

Actually, it's a huge stretch to try and fit the production model VF-4 into Robotech, because the official line on the VF-4 in Robotech is that it was NEVER mass-produced, and in fact only one or two prototypes were ever built.

I never heard that line, I was too busy looking for the SDF-2 that they kept mentioning in Robotech. So even the VF-4 is just another thing that Robotech was missing Robotech.

I've noticed a lot of the male Robotech fans who try and defend Yune's new, sexier character designs are single, and with no prospects, so that might answer a few nagging questions about why they're so keen on Tommy's designs.

I will admit that sadly that is me in a nutshell currently.

They're drawn like Barbie dolls, a desperate, single man's fantasy girl.

I will cut Tommy a little slack, because he at least threw in a little bit of beefcake for the female viewers.

Its not like other comic book artists haven't drawn women with barbie doll figures or outrageously beefed up men. This time Tommy just ripped off of DC and Marvel Superhero comics instead of Macross.

This exaggeration of masculine and feminine qualities that people have been complaining about in artwork and advertising ads isn't new and is tied into basic human psychology 101. People are designed to spot members of the opposite gender quickly before they even recognize their own gender by looking for features deemed masculine or feminine such as broad chests or slim waistlines. It is these very features that are always exaggerated when photoshoping model photos or animating cartoons of either gender, often on an unconscious level or to help market something to the opposite sex.

Honestly, though I think we can put aside this Robotits discussion. Its not like there is any shortage of stuff of things to complain about HG and RT.

Hell, I'm slim enough to cosplay Ishtar and make it look pretty good, and my waist is still probably twice as big around as any of the women in Shadow Chronicles.

I actually saw a couple once cosplaying as Ishtar and Hibiki back at AWA 13. It was funny because I saw Mac II a week before the con, yet I didn't recognize them at the con despite this gut feeling that I should. When I rewatched Mac II again a few days later I then noticed the outfits that Ishtar and Hibiki were wearing when Ishtar got cultured shocked and started running, then it suddenly hit me that the couple I saw were indeed cosplaying as Ishtar and Hibiki.

Edit:

QUOTE (RavenHawk @ Apr 24 2009, 10:59 AM) *

is MOSPEADA really that much more obscure than Megazone?

Are you talking about obscurity in America or Japan? I don't know about Japan, but here in the states MOSPEADA is a lot more obscure. Megazone Part One was almost as big a cult classic as Akira.

Edited April 25, 2009 by Freiflug88

[Roy Focker]

Harmony Gold's stated goal for Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles was to attract new viewers to the franchise, and their target demographic was the 13-21 year olds.

The entire story was super easy for a new viewers to get into. The way they heavily based it on prior saga but barely made references to. Robotech fans new and old are pretty smart. They don't ask questions like who are these characters, what are they doing here, was there some earlier episodes we're suppose to watch? A stroke of brillance.

[VF5SS]

Harmony Gold's stated goal for Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles was to attract new viewers to the franchise, and their target demographic was the 13-21 year olds. We all know how hormonal teenage boys are. They'll snap up any show that has a pair of big, jiggling boobs on the cover.

They must've been really disappointed when all the shots of women feature rock hard boobs. Do we even see characters walking? I recall the total BS scene where Stick and Superfly Johnson... I mean Vince had to run up a flight of stairs but there didn't even bother to show it. They just cut from before they started to just after they made it up. Even cheap poo anime like Akikan can afford to show dynamic movement.

[Gubaba]

They must've been really disappointed when all the shots of women feature rock hard boobs. Do we even see characters walking? I recall the total BS scene where Stick and Superfly Johnson... I mean Vince had to run up a flight of stairs but there didn't even bother to show it. They just cut from before they started to just after they made it up. Even cheap poo anime like Akikan can afford to show dynamic movement.

Are you suggesting that the SC artists should've taken their cues from "Plastic Little"...?

[VF5SS]

Are you talking about obscurity in America or Japan? I don't know about Japan, but here in the states MOSPEADA is a lot more obscure. Megazone Part One was almost as big a cult classic as Akira.

Mospeada in Japan is more or less on the same level as other third tier (assuming Gundam is first tier and stuff like Macross and Votoms is second tier) stuff like Dorvack, Vifam, or Orguss. It has its dedicated fans, but the lack of any new material keeps it down in the long run. It's probably closer to Dorvack since the designs in the show have more or less outlived the content of the show.

[BlackRose]

They must've been really disappointed when all the shots of women feature rock hard boobs.

Two words... "Robotech Brassiere".

[VF5SS]

Two words... "Robotech Brassiere".

Ya really. Maybe Tommy should've had his horny Korean animator friends pull a Gainax bounce trick. Of course, the animation couldn't fix Maia Sterling's awful voice. On another note, I find it hilarious that the big new Mospeada design in SC was just a retread of some concept artwork. That's some John Romero level creativity.

[RavenHawk]

Edit:

QUOTE (RavenHawk @ Apr 24 2009, 10:59 AM) *

Are you talking about obscurity in America or Japan? I don't know about Japan, but here in the states MOSPEADA is a lot more obscure. Megazone Part One was almost as big a cult classic as Akira.

It may be better known among anime fans, but I don't know about the general public. I know a lot of my friends remember the Cyclones from Robotech (though they don't know anything about MOSPEADA itself) but not a single one of them has heard of Megazone or would recognize a Garland.

[Jasonc]

So, in a nutshell, this just shows what the franchise has in it's care...A PR guy who's busy doing all he can to keep his job by doing all these conventions and annoying even the diehard fans, a creative director that only will take credit for something if its well received, and the site admin guy who just hangs out. It's no wonder why nothing gets done.

I never heard that line, I was too busy looking for the SDF-2 that they kept mentioning in Robotech. So even the VF-4 is just another thing that Robotech was missing Robotech.

I think HG is able to use the VF-4, as it is shown in SDF:M as a table model in one of the later episodes. I don't think they show it transformed, so that might be why it doesn't transform in the comics. But, it may also have to do with laziness, as Tommy was asking Memo, a few other fans and myself how it transformed.

[Einherjar]

I think HG is able to use the VF-4, as it is shown in SDF:M as a table model in one of the later episodes. I don't think they show it transformed, so that might be why it doesn't transform in the comics. But, it may also have to do with laziness, as Tommy was asking Memo, a few other fans and myself how it transformed.

Why would Tommy be a reliable source on how the VF-4 transforms? Sure, he drew it a couple of times in comics, but he didn't make the thing or create a Robotech equivalent that could even transform. In fact, has he ever worked on a project where he had to create mecha or where mecha was involved before Robotech?

[BlackRose]

So, in a nutshell, this just shows what the franchise has in it's care...A PR guy who's busy doing all he can to keep his job by doing all these conventions and annoying even the diehard fans, a creative director that only will take credit for something if its well received, and the site admin guy who just hangs out. It's no wonder why nothing gets done.

Sounds about right.

I think HG is able to use the VF-4, as it is shown in SDF:M as a table model in one of the later episodes. I don't think they show it transformed, so that might be why it doesn't transform in the comics. But, it may also have to do with laziness, as Tommy was asking Memo, a few other fans and myself how it transformed.

No, they aren't. They can use the VF-X-4, because that appears in the animation they have the rights to, but not the actual VF-4 from Flashback 2012. Tommy dodged the problem of having to work out a transformation for the VF-X-4 (since there isn't one for that plane) by having it encounter mechanical problems.

Why would Tommy be a reliable source on how the VF-4 transforms? Sure, he drew it a couple of times in comics, but he didn't make the thing or create a Robotech equivalent that could even transform. In fact, has he ever worked on a project where he had to create mecha or where mecha was involved before Robotech?

To the best of my knowledge, Tommy has only ever created one new transforming mecha. A blurry, out-of-focus image of the so-called "Gamma fighter" was used during the initial hype-building for RTSC, but never made it into the flick. It looks a lot like a transformable Conbat, with a battroid mode that looks rather like a VF-5000B.

Edited April 25, 2009 by BlackRose

[Einherjar]

No, they aren't. They can use the VF-X-4, because that appears in the animation they have the rights to, but not the actual VF-4 from Flashback 2012. Tommy dodged the problem of having to work out a transformation for the VF-X-4 (since there isn't one for that plane) by having it encounter mechanical problems.

To the best of my knowledge, Tommy has only ever created one new transforming mecha. A blurry, out-of-focus image of the so-called "Gamma fighter" was used during the initial hype-building for RTSC, but never made it into the flick. It looks a lot like a transformable Conbat, with a battroid mode that looks rather like a VF-5000B.

I heard that he also made the Silverback dune buggy, but still.

Clearly he's the best choice to helm a series known for intergalactic wars and transforming mecha. Then again, the guy before him couldn't even make or draw original crap.

Edited April 25, 2009 by Einherjar

[Radd]

Do any Macross designs at all appear in Shadow Chronicles?

I don't think they can even use the VF-X-4. They own distribution rights to the animation, they do not own the line art or rights to use the designs in their own new works. They can, however, use the line art for merchandising distribution. This all, of course, being what was stated in the Tokyo Circuit Court rulings from way back when. It's possible, as some have argued, that this does not apply somehow, but I've not seen anything to support that idea.

Because a great many people are functional morons, things like comic books and videogames, which are in reality derivatives, are labled as "merchandise" in the eyes of the law. So, HG can use the VF-X-4 in comics, but not in animation.

Aren't IP laws great?

[BlackRose]

Do any Macross designs at all appear in Shadow Chronicles?

No, none do. Just stuff from Mospeada and a few generic ships.

I don't think they can even use the VF-X-4. They own distribution rights to the animation, they do not own the line art or rights to use the designs in their own new works. They can, however, use the line art for merchandising distribution. This all, of course, being what was stated in the Tokyo Circuit Court rulings from way back when. It's possible, as some have argued, that this does not apply somehow, but I've not seen anything to support that idea.

Well, they're able to use the VF-X-4 in the comics, that much is for sure, because it appeared in "Robotech: From the Stars".