Robotech and HG license debates

[Einherjar]

LITTLE ROBOTECH FANDOM POLITICS.

Not to be rude, but that kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Somehow that sounds like what Carl Macek and the HG crew did back in the 80s when they had the material from Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada and decided how to use them as they saw fit. Only this time, it's a small group of fans, I think, taking info from wherever they can and arbitrarily deciding on what should or shouldn't be included in the publication for the fans. And then there's the decision of how new, relevant information, like from the Macross Chronicles, should be interpreted in the Robotech universe by these fans. With that kind of responsibility you can't please everyone, and there's the possibility of people asking who gave these people the right to represent the fandom in that way.

[VFTF1]

How many people played the Paladium role playing games?

That is the only ONE AND ONLY fond memory I have of "Robotech" - but that's mainly because it had nothing to do with Robotech as such; we just essentially flew Valkyrie around and fought Zendradi and stuff.

I remember I threw a Zentran brain at a flashing red light which turned out to be a nuclear bomb. The dice said that all my friend sustained heavy damage while my Monster got away scott free

Nya nya

Pete

[Seto Kaiba]

Only this time, it's a small group of fans, I think, taking info from wherever they can and arbitrarily deciding on what should or shouldn't be included in the publication for the fans.

That approach is nothing new, Einherjar. After all, it's exactly how they made the Robotech.com Infopedia... right down to the poaching of information from Macross sources. A lot of the guys who wrote the Unofficial Robotech Reference Guide "consulted on" (wrote) the Infopedia based on their work on their own site.

How many people played the Paladium role playing games?

Not I... the only Palladium Books game I've ever played was their Macross II RPG... with all its horrible inaccuracies and blatantly made-up information. It's what motivated me to start collecting every Macross II source I could lay hands on and put together a site providing the most accurate information on the OVA possible.

I've seen the Robotech RPG books, both 1st and 2nd Edition, and they are pretty bad. Lots of art shamelessly thieved from Macross books (but with Robotech, that seems to be the status quo) and lots of REALLY REALLY AWFUL art drawn by their in-house artists.

[Einherjar]

That approach is nothing new, Einherjar. After all, it's exactly how they made the Robotech.com Infopedia... right down to the poaching of information from Macross sources. A lot of the guys who wrote the Unofficial Robotech Reference Guide "consulted on" (wrote) the Infopedia based on their work on their own site.

I'm assuming that those people did it for free, but since this one is planned as a publication of some sort, doesn't that mean money will be involved somewhere down the line as well as a hands free endorsement from HG?

[Seto Kaiba]

I'm assuming that those people did it for free, but since this one is planned as a publication of some sort, doesn't that mean money will be involved somewhere down the line as well as a hands free endorsement from HG?

Yeah, according to the Robotech Anthology website, they were planning to publish it on a semi-annual basis.

I'd guess that Harmony Gold gave them the go-ahead for the publication to avoid offending the long-time fans who coordinated it, several of whom are Robotech.com moderators, but refused to fund it because they don't think it really stands a chance, a passive-aggressive way to kill the project permanently. An honest assessment if ever I saw one, since most anime enthusiasts have either never heard of Robotech before, or regard the series as unworthy of attention because it's a bastardized rewrite.

I have to admit, the lengths to which some of the more devoted Robotech fans go to delude themselves into believing their favorite show is still popular are somewhat frightening. One fellow tried to convince me that Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles was selling like mad because it was briefly the top-selling anime DVD at WalMart. Now I don't know how many of you have ever ventured into the video section of a WalMart before... but calling their selection of anime "sparse" would be too generous to be accurate. Last time I ventured back there, Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles was one of only five titles they had... three of the remaining four were various flavors of Dragonball, and the fourth was Pokemon. Being the best-selling anime DVD at WalMart... a title every bit as prestigious as being the best-selling anime DVD at your local McDonalds.

That same fellow attempted to convince me that Robotech: Battlecry was wildly popular because it had sold somewhere around 50,000 copies... fell flat on its face when I pointed out that a genuinely popular game like Mario Kart or Bioshock could expect to sell half a million or more copies, and that a truly popular cross-platform game could expect to sell millions.

Admittedly, I can understand why Harmony Gold would brag about Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles being a financial success... after all, they only spent $1 million making it, and at $20 a copy they only have to sell 50,000 copies to break even... not exactly difficult considering it's available worldwide, and made even less difficult when you factor in the money they got from its brief theatrical run and TV run.

Edited April 6, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[EXO]

I can somewhat understand clamoring to the need of Robotech stuff. At the time when there were no Macross/Robotech/Mospeada stuff I would have bought anything. I wanted the Arii toys but never got to them.

But now with the influx of merchandise I can be choosy and even spit on some Macross merchandise. And of course Robotech stuff are way below that mark becuse they never really chose to market anything worthwhile. Except for the Beagle Cyclones, but let's face it, those were made for Mospeada fans, merchandised as RT product.

[taksraven]

The difficulty in explaining everything is that most of the problem lies with contracts that nobody outside of the respective parties has seen, so any time someone posts what they know (or think they know) about it, there's a lot of speculation attached.

Here are the undisputed facts, although I'm not too sure of the dates.

In the '80s, Harmony Gold bought the rights to SDFM from Tatsunoko.

The nightmare begins.

In the early '90s, U.S. Renditions brought out Macross II, Streamline brought out the Robotech Perfect Collection, and Manga Ent. brought out Macross Plus. No legal rumblings were heard.

In the late 90's, HG sent cease and desist orders to some vendors selling Macross merchandise in the U.S. and squashed plans to release Macross Plus toys in the U.S. as well.

This is the most suss part of the story. I don't believe that "HG asleep at the wheel so some Macross stuff sneaks through" story that people seem to accept. In Australia at least, this period was an anime boomtime with the release of M+ by Manga as well as a *heap* of other material. I'm not a big believer in conspiracy theories, but there was more going on here than we know about.

And Big West and Tatsunoko had their big legal fight over ownership of SDFM, which lasted a while.

In 1999, AnimEigo released the SDFM DVD Box Set, using masters provided to them by HG.

In the early 2000s, the BW/Tats lawsuit ended. Big West ended up with the rights to the designs, story, concepts, and characters; Tatsunoko ended up with the rights to the actual film of the TV show. TokyoPop annouced they would be working with HG to bring over Macross 7 Trash, but that failed to materialize.

I know that it is probably not the most legally fought over franchise ever, but Macross seems to have had more than its fair share of problems.

HG trademarked the name Macross in the U.S. (and perhaps in other places as well).

That is just sheer cheek. How did they get away with that?

Since 1995 (with the Macross Plus Movie), no new Macross title has been released in the U.S. And there are apparently no plans to release Frontier. HG has gone on record saying they would be happy to release them.

Is that a "though gritted teeth" statement about releasing Frontier, or is it just a "Hey, we need lots of money" deal?

Taksraven

[Gubaba]

This is the most suss part of the story. I don't believe that "HG asleep at the wheel so some Macross stuff sneaks through" story that people seem to accept. In Australia at least, this period was an anime boomtime with the release of M+ by Manga as well as a *heap* of other material. I'm not a big believer in conspiracy theories, but there was more going on here than we know about.

I don't buy it either, for a very simple reason. They said that by the time they learned about II and Plus, the statute of limitations had run out...but, from my limited understanding, it doesn't work like that. As soon as they FIND OUT about the copyright infringement, the clock starts ticking, not before.

It's BS, plain and simple...but I pledged to deliver only the facts, not my interpretation of the facts.

Is that a "though gritted teeth" statement about releasing Frontier, or is it just a "Hey, we need lots of money" deal?

Are you kidding? Big hit anime with big hit soundtracks, lots of buzz...I'm sure they're salivating at the thought of getting their hands on it.

[Robelwell202]

Are you telling me that there's a rumor about HG wanting sole distribution rights for MacF in the US, and other controlled territories?

I'd believe it.

[Gubaba]

Are you telling me that there's a rumor about HG wanting sole distribution rights for MacF in the US, and other controlled territories?

I'd believe it.

I think they were talking about Zero, actually, now that I think about it...although I'm sure they'd be happy to release either of them. Even if they didn't release them themselves, as the copyright holders, they'd get a cut, right?

[EXO]

and people wonder why Big West doesnt want to deal with HG.... Floodgates... don't open it!

[Gubaba]

and people wonder why Big West doesnt want to deal with HG.... Floodgates... don't open it!

I never understood why RT fans used that as the rationale for why the lack of a lot of Macross in the west was BW's fault...I mean, if someone underhandedly maneuvers so that I couldn't do business with anyone but them...I wouldn't do business at all.

Makes perfect sense to me.

[Freiflug88]

You guys have got to see this. I ran a search for "Macross" trademarks on http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess...4008:mftm3k.1.1. According to the results I found Big West had 10 trademarks for "Macross" and 5 for "Macross Plus" in 1999/2000 before "abandoning" them after a year. That is right folks they are listed as "abandoned" which is defined as "Failure To Respond Or Late Response." On the other hand HG has 5 trademarks for Macross that were granted only after Big West abandoned their Macross trademarks starting in 2001. If you don't believe me go and see for yourselves.

Did HG really fight with BW over US trademarks or did BW just simply pull out after a year because of little demand for Macross in the US? I can see HG arguing over the Macross trademarks with their "Robotech: The Macross Saga," but HG would have no claims over the "Macross Plus" trademarks that are listed as being separate from "Macross." Plus there is no sign that I saw from my TESS (Trademark Electronic Search Service) results that it was anything other then HG taking advantage of the opportunity to grab the Macross trademarks after BW let them expire.

According to http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/023/RipOff0023721.htm:

In late 2001-early 2002, the promised 'Ai Oboeteimasuka' toys started appearing. Small and large web-based importers began to take and process international orders for the toys. HG, in response, sent threatening legal letters to the smaller companies, ordering them to stop importation, and to hand over ALL 'Macross' toys in their stock, or face a lawsuit for theft of intellectual property. The first (cease and desist) may have been legal, but the second (hand over all unsold 'Macross' toys) probably wasn't.

Though the Macross Plus incident is not listed, if the page is right about the late 2001-early 2002 by that time the BW trademark on Macross toys had been long abandoned back in September 22, 2000. So it looks like HG did in fact have a legal right over Macross toys at the time...

Oh why did BW pull out of the Macross trademarks after only a year

But wait! If Macross and Macross Plus were listed as separate trademarks what does this mean for Macross Zero and Macross Frontier!?

Edited April 7, 2009 by Freiflug88

[Einherjar]

This is surprising, at least one preview copy of the Robotech Anthology is out there. Bravo to the crew I guess.

http://robotechflash.blog.com/2908439/

[Seto Kaiba]

This is surprising, at least one preview copy of the Robotech Anthology is out there. Bravo to the crew I guess.

http://robotechflash.blog.com/2908439/

Amusing... I was aware of the existence of at least one printed preview copy that'd been sent to Harmony Gold for approvals. It doesn't surprise me that the guy who did the cover art was also given a preview copy.

I will admit, the cover art looks quite nice. Better than much of the crap Harmony Gold puts out professionally.

If I can find that guy's robotech.com SN or if he's got a MacrossWorld account, I've half a mind to offer him new blog real-estate on my server...

EDIT: Never mind... I found him. It looks like he was permanently banned from Robotech.com for doing what I so often do... telling the people in charge just how shitty the quality of their work really is.

Edited April 7, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[LtStick]

I remember the days when HG was threatening retailers. In the early days of this. I know one e-tailer who had imported Macross stuff kept his inventory on the QT. He like so many at that time were afraid HG was going to try and take his inventory of imported Macross toys.

[Freiflug88]

I remember the days when HG was threatening retailers. In the early days of this. I know one e-tailer who had imported Macross stuff kept his inventory on the QT. He like so many at that time were afraid HG was going to try and take his inventory of imported Macross toys.

Indeed many vendors were afraid of HG, but the Trademark search results show that BW had abandoned all of its US trademarks of Macross by 2002 allowing HG to start picking them up. Like it or not this would have given HG a legal right to bar Macross imports from retailers. One of the listed advantages of owning a Trademark is "The ability to file the U.S. registration with U.S. Customs and Border Protection to prevent importation of infringing foreign goods" according to http://www.uspto.gov/smallbusiness/tradema...egistering.html.

I have also been pondering about the fact that e-tailers received legal threats and no follow-up legal action was taken. No doubt HG simply didn't have the resources for expensive legal battles to go against retailers or to probably even argue over trademarks in federal court with BW. Again signs point to BW as simply abandoning their Macross rights which is frustrating considering that:

Rights in a federally-registered trademark can last indefinitely if the owner continues to use the mark on or in connection with the goods and/or services in the registration and files all necessary documentation in the USPTO at the appropriate times. In general, the owner of a registration must periodically file:

* Affidavits of Continued Use or Excusable Nonuse under 15 U.S.C. §1058; and

* Applications for Renewal under 15 U.S.C. §1059.

Whats more:

After an application is filed, the assigned examining attorney will search the USPTO records to determine if a conflict, i.e., a likelihood of confusion, exists between the mark in the application and another mark that is registered or pending in the USPTO. The USPTO will not provide any preliminary search for conflicting marks before an applicant files an application. The principal factors considered by the examining attorney in determining whether there would be a likelihood of confusion are:

* the similarity of the marks; and

* the commercial relationship between the goods and/or services listed in the application.

To find a conflict, the marks do not have to be identical, and the goods and/or services do not have to be the same. It may be enough that the marks are similar and the goods and/or services related.

If a conflict exists between your mark and a registered mark, the examining attorney will refuse registration on the ground of likelihood of confusion. If a conflict exists between your mark and a mark in a pending application that was filed before your application, the examining attorney will notify you of the potential conflict. If the earlier-filed application registers, the Examining Attorney will refuse registration of your mark on the ground of likelihood of confusion.

In other words if HG had applied for Macross trademarks when BW possessed them the examining attorney at USPTO would deny HG registration with no further questions asked. Instead HG had to wait for BW to leave their trademarks after their failure to file out some paperwork. I honestly say that BW has little to complain about HG getting the rights to Macross just because they didn't stay on top of some paperwork.

[sketchley]

(...) I honestly say that BW has little to complain about HG getting the rights to Macross just because they didn't stay on top of some paperwork.

You do realize that some government processes are as clear as mud, right? Tack on the additionals of doing it all in a foreign country and not speaking the same language. Sure, the trademark owner has some responsibilities, but does the onus of defending it in all instances that it's infringed upon fall solely on the trademark owner? It seems like common sense is missing. But wait, we're talking about a country that allows people to successfully litigate a company after they poured hot coffee on themselves, right?

[Bri]

From what I have read on cases with trademarks is that foreign firms in the US often spread their trademarks to widely. I.e try to cover to many product types. Regulations require for the registration to be succesful, you'd need to be active in all areas you want to register for. It's quite possible that this happened to BW.

Also, it is not illegal what HG did, but they can't expect that BW ever wants to have dealings with them again.

Edited April 7, 2009 by Bri

[jenius]

You do realize that some government processes are as clear as mud, right? Tack on the additionals of doing it all in a foreign country and not speaking the same language. Sure, the trademark owner has some responsibilities, but does the onus of defending it in all instances that it's infringed upon fall solely on the trademark owner? It seems like common sense is missing. But wait, we're talking about a country that allows people to successfully litigate a company after they poured hot coffee on themselves, right?

That's just silly. Yes, it's absolutely up to the owner of the trademark to be aware of their own trademarks and to keep them from being dismissed. That is common sense. If you're dealing with a litigious community all the more reason to be more aware of the legal ground you stand on. BW got lazy, probably figured there was no risk of HG being that big of a douche, and got burned.

[sketchley]

@ Jenius: Oh, boo-hoo. Bri beat you to it, and his post was much more informative into the how's and why's.

Nevertheless, I stand behind my "clear as mud" point.

[Freiflug88]

You do realize that some government processes are as clear as mud, right? Tack on the additionals of doing it all in a foreign country and not speaking the same language. Sure, the trademark owner has some responsibilities, but does the onus of defending it in all instances that it's infringed upon fall solely on the trademark owner? It seems like common sense is missing. But wait, we're talking about a country that allows people to successfully litigate a company after they poured hot coffee on themselves, right? rolleyes.gif

BW had no trouble at all with the "Foreign" government processes here in the States considering:

1. Its very common for Japanese to study English or at the very least find translators who know English. How else would Sony be doing business in the States hmm?

2. After WWII the Marshal Plan not only rebuilt Japan, but rewrote its Constitution and laws to be a copy of America's so Japan's government processes are more or less the same.

3. BW was able to apply the US trademarks in early 2001 shortly after the Japanese Supreme Court settled the trademarks in there favor.

As I mentioned in an earlier post:

One of the listed advantages of owning a Trademark is "The ability to file the U.S. registration with U.S. Customs and Border Protection to prevent importation of infringing foreign goods"

I know a retailer who got boxes of movies imported from the Philipines to try and retail them here in the states only to have the new trademarked releases confiscated by US inspectors who would check the imported packages time after time. Contrary to your belief the US government will take responsibility for helping to defend a trademark, but only if you put in the effort to register your trademark claim to the proper authorities. Its no different then the common sense to call the cops about a criminal in your house otherwise the cops will have no idea that your in danger.

From what I have read on cases with trademarks is that foreign firms in the US often spread their trademarks to widely. I.e try to cover to many product types. Regulations require for the registration to be succesful, you'd need to be active in all areas you want to register for. It's quite possible that this happened to BW.

You have to be active in a product area to register a trademark, hence HG only has 5 trademarks for Macross. (BW had 10 Macross + 5 Macross Plus) In order to renew a trademark, however all you need is:

* Affidavits of Continued Use or Excusable Nonuse under 15 U.S.C. §1058; and

* Applications for Renewal under 15 U.S.C. §1059.

So BW could have simply filed an affidavit with a simple excuse as to why they were not active in a product type, its not like they had to constantly release Macross t-shirts if they wanted to keep their Macross clothing trademark. So the idea that BW would be simply overwhelmed by these trademarks is impossible when all BW needed do to was mail, fax, or even email a several documents once a year listing how the trademark is currently being in use or not.

Now a word to BW. You understood the rules, the language, and weren't even required to keep products in the US market. You just abandoned the rights after a year, as if our beloved Macross was hooker on the street. Thanks to you HG is now the Macross pimp in the states, but at least now I don't have any shame for raping BW's Macross Frontier franchise through torrenting. And don't give me no BS about exploiting your women either, after putting erotic images of Sheryl and Ranka on a car for advertisement:

####Warning click at your own risk. Linked website is borderline NSFW.####

####Warning click at your own risk. Linked website is borderline NSFW.####

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2008/10/14/macross-ero-itasha/

####Warning click at your own risk. Linked website is borderline NSFW.####

####Warning click at your own risk. Linked website is borderline NSFW.####

[Bri]

(...) BW had no trouble at all with the "Foreign" government processes here in the States considering:

Please keep your facts straight. HG filed the first trademark in July 1999, the first BW filing followed in Aug 1999. HGs trademarks were awarded, BWs werent. The trademark case predates the court case, not vice versa.

We do not know the reason why BW never got the trademarks. They may have filed for to many different ones or HG being first may have caused it or any other reason.

You have to be active in a product area to register a trademark, hence HG only has 5 trademarks for Macross. (BW had 10 Macross + 5 Macross Plus) In order to renew a trademark, however all you need is:

BW never had the trademarks hence you cannot request non use.

[azrael]

...Its very common for Japanese to study English or at the very least find translators who know English. How else would Sony be doing business in the States hmm? How else would Sony be doing business in the States hmm?...

Sony has a USA subsidiary, Sony Corporation of America, who handles all of their businesses within the United States. Why would Sony Japan want to use translators when they already have a corporate entity in the USA? Same with Toyota, Honda, Pioneer, Bandai, etc. They have an business group set up in the country to handle their products. They don't need translators when they are already established in the country.

[jenius]

@ Jenius: Oh, boo-hoo. Bri beat you to it, and his post was much more informative into the how's and why's.

Nevertheless, I stand behind my "clear as mud" point.

tears... oh the tears. We will strike your rant about everything pertaining to this conversation and leave "laws are hard!"

Edited April 7, 2009 by jenius

[Freiflug88]

Sony has a USA subsidiary, Sony Corporation of America, who handles all of their businesses within the United States. Why would Sony Japan want to use translators when they already have a corporate entity in the USA? Same with Toyota, Honda, Pioneer, Bandai, etc. They have an business group set up in the country to handle their products. They don't need translators when they are already established in the country.

Sony was just the first example that popped in my head. Yes, there are USA subsidiaries but in the end they all have to overcome the language barrier to communicate with their parent companies in Japan.

[Einherjar]

EDIT: Never mind... I found him. It looks like he was permanently banned from Robotech.com for doing what I so often do... telling the people in charge just how shitty the quality of their work really is.

I should've warned you about that, it's mostly the reason why his blog exists. Plus, he's also pals with dougbendo and the pie guy. That's the reason why I didn't believe much of his blog at first.

[Gubaba]

I should've warned you about that, it's mostly the reason why his blog exists. Plus, he's also pals with dougbendo and the pie guy. That's the reason why I didn't believe much of his blog at first.

Still, if you wanted to find people who REALLY REALLY REALLY love Robotech, dougbendo and Pie Guy would be two of your top choices...

[Freiflug88]

Please keep your facts straight. HG filed the first trademark in July 1999, the first BW filing followed in Aug 1999. HGs trademarks were awarded, BWs werent. The trademark case predates the court case, not vice versa.

We do not know the reason why BW never got the trademarks. They may have filed for to many different ones or HG being first may have caused it or any other reason.

My bad. I should have noticed that earlier and not jumped the gun. Since HG was first to trademark that explains everything.

Trademark Law adopts a first-to-file system. Specifically, if an application conflicts with other applications, the application that was filed first is registered, even if an owner of the later application has used the mark before the filing date of the earlier application. Thus, it is advisable to file an application as soon as possible to secure an earlier filing date.

I did more digging on BW verus Tatsunko and indeed it started in Feburary 2001. I also found this to be quite interesting:

http://www.toyboxdx.com/rumble_plus/042702-hg.html

So why did Big West & Nue sue Tatsunoko? Unfortunately, the companies will not comment officially on the current litigation, as it is ongoing, but we can make some educated guesses. First, Big West sued Tatsunoko over copyright despite the fact that there is no question that they hold copyright to the show here in Japan. Merchandise related to Macross in Japan has "copyright Big West" plastered all over it. Tatsunoko's web site makes no reference to Macross in their list of creations. This leads one to speculate that if the conflict is not about the domestic market, it must be over the international one.

Individuals close to Big West have commented off-the-record that Big West is furious with Tatsunoko and Harmony Gold's handling of the property internationally. Not only is Big West earning no royalties from the show's international marketing, but HG has never consulted Big West about creative or editorial matters related to the show. In other words, all of the editing and changes made to turn Macross into "Robotech" were done without the permission of the show's original creators. The same goes for HG's "Toynami" merchandise -- none of which was approved by Big West (or by Kaiyodo, the Japanese model company whose Valkyrie sculpt appears to have been stolen for the Toynami Valkyrie items).

Again, although we cannot be certain, even if Big West did grant the rights for the international market to Tatsunoko, which in turn passed them on to HG, it is almost unheard of for a creator to relinquish the right to approve changes to their work, or new products related to it. For these reasons, we believe that the entire point of Big West's lawsuit was to ultimately regain the ability to control the property in the international market.

HG would have you believe otherwise, of course. The following is excerpted from their Robotech.com website's news section:

The litigation in Japan involving Tatsunoko, Big West and Studio Nue does not affect Harmony Gold or its licensees. Harmony Gold is not a party to any legal proceedings. Furthermore, the lawsuit, which was tried in front of a Japanese court, only relates to rights in Japan. Since Harmony Gold's worldwide rights to Macross exclude Japan, a Japanese judgment does not apply to us.

Indeed, this statement is correct insofar as it says the Japanese verdict only related to "rights in Japan." However, what HG fails to note here is the crucial fact that one of the "rights in Japan" is the right of the show's copyright holder to license Macross to an overseas agent of their choice. So the above statement is at best little more than wishful thinking on HG's part and at worse, insulting to the intelligence of an informed observer.

[Freiflug88]

Also looked at some International Intellectual Property Rights and found The Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works:

Under the Convention, copyrights for creative works are automatically in force upon their creation without being asserted or declared. An author need not "register" or "apply for" a copyright in countries adhering to the Convention. As soon as a work is "fixed", that is, written or recorded on some physical medium, its author is automatically entitled to all copyrights in the work and to any derivative works, unless and until the author explicitly disclaims them or until the copyright expires. Foreign authors are given the same rights and privileges to copyrighted material as domestic authors in any country that signed the Convention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convent..._Artistic_Works

This is probably what binds HG from using Macross derivatives in works after Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles. Under this BW still has all the rights for the Macross designs, story, etc. in every country that honors the Berne Convention as they have the Japanese copyrights which must be honored in the U.S. and they have not disclaimed their rights to derivative works.

[Seto Kaiba]

I should've warned you about that, it's mostly the reason why his blog exists. Plus, he's also pals with dougbendo and the pie guy. That's the reason why I didn't believe much of his blog at first.

Okay... that's enough to completely reverse my opinion of him... anyone capable of being pals with Doug Bendo is someone I'd prefer to regard only while on the opposite side of an unbreakable two-way mirror.

[TheLoneWolf]

I did more digging on BW verus Tatsunko and indeed it started in Feburary 2001. I also found this to be quite interesting:

http://www.toyboxdx.com/rumble_plus/042702-hg.html

Thanks for taking the time to dig up those old articles, but it's really nothing new for those of us who are actually following the matter. In fact, when I reread it, I became a little confused because it mentioned that no one knows if Big West granted Macross' international film rights to Tatsunoko back in '82, when we now know for certain that Big West did give them those rights.

[Freiflug88]

Thanks for taking the time to dig up those old articles, but it's really nothing new for those of us who are actually following the matter. In fact, when I reread it, I became a little confused because it mentioned that no one knows if Big West granted Macross' international film rights to Tatsunoko back in '82, when we now know for certain that Big West did give them those rights.

Unfortunately there really isn't any new news on the matter just fan speculation. Still as a new comer to this copyright case it fascinates me and its something to look into while waiting for the MF movie and the Robotech movies. Till then we can only wait and see if anything happens when Harmony Gold's rights from Tatsunoko expire or if BW decides to spend a lot of cash in a legal battle with Harmony Gold directly.

[azrael]

Thanks for taking the time to dig up those old articles, but it's really nothing new for those of us who are actually following the matter. In fact, when I reread it, I became a little confused because it mentioned that no one knows if Big West granted Macross' international film rights to Tatsunoko back in '82, when we now know for certain that Big West did give them those rights.

Feels like 2001-2003 all over again, doesn't it? Now if only we Shawn could restore the old boards...

[Einherjar]

Unfortunately there really isn't any new news on the matter just fan speculation. Still as a new comer to this copyright case it fascinates me and its something to look into while waiting for the MF movie and the Robotech movies. Till then we can only wait and see if anything happens when Harmony Gold's rights from Tatsunoko expire or if BW decides to spend a lot of cash in a legal battle with Harmony Gold directly.

Hopefully something, hell let's face it anything at this point, from HG except news updates and panels would really interest me from their side. The pattern I've been seeing is for years they've been working to bring Robotech back into the mainstream with constant attempts while everyone else, even Shoji Kawamori, moved on doing other things. Then every a couple of years, someone does a stand alone production for Macross with some new ideas while HG's still trying to continue a story without end and with very little to show for it (unless you count the novels and comics). I personally had Ending Fatigue when getting info about Robotech up to Shadow Chronicles and its lack of closure. They've let this happen so many times so far (II, Plus, 7, Zero, Frontier, the movies) that I doubt they'll break the cycle. HG will probably renew those licenses when the time comes while forcing fans to wait years for the next exciting chapter of Robotech and a live movie.

I'm not going to discuss whether or not the Macross sequels were good, just that they started, ended, and people moved on with their lives, unlike Robotech.

EDIT: Macross Zero took at least two years to complete, what did Robotech do during that time?

Edited April 8, 2009 by Einherjar