Prentencious Asian Artsy films

[wolfx]

In this month, I caught the latest Asian horror films which were Infection, by the Japanese and Ghost Train by the Koreans.

Infection is a trippy horror film of how the overworked staff of a hospital are dying off one by one to a strange infectious disease that disolves humans. In the process of the show you get creepy atmosphere, ghosts etc. I love how the story progressed and then towards the end it becomes real artsy and trippy and I don't know WTF is going on and what really happened.

Ghost Train...not sure if its because it was badly translated, was good in building up tension and leaves alot of plot holes by the end. You dont' really see much gore or ghosts. Just psychological tension and that's good...if the story adds up by the end that is.

Both these films....seem to try to carry a message across. But I just don't get it. WTf?

Ok and today I just watched Ichi The Killer. The whole show was like just a reason to show lotsa blood and gore and how to really torture a human being that would make you cringe....which is fine if that was the case...until you reach some trippy ending which again makes you go WTF? The last time i remembered a trippy american horror was Jacob's ladder, which Silent Hill got me to watching it. So is this the trend that seems to be happening to the Asian horror scene? Let's show gore. Let's show horror! Oh ok...why not add some artsy message in the end scene?

PS: Battle Royale had a somewhat weird ending as well....Battle Royale II even weirder. But they didn't really leave any plotholes so that's all fine by me.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I can't speak to those movies but a few nights ago I was suffering from insomnia and watched "Ichi the Killer" on one of my Showtime channels. When the movie ended the only thing I could do was blurt out "what the F#CK was THAT?!?"

It's either a cultural barrier or Ichi the Killer is one stupid, messed up Japanese movie.

[Tober]

Itchi the Killer is about relationships and how we come to depend upon or manipulate others for our own fullfilment.

Battle Royale is about the competitive society that is Japanese youth and how the parents control their youth into being competitive.

Both films use the extreme to get their message across.

My opinion anyway.

I have not seen the others.

[armentage]

I've pretty much decided that any Japanese Cinema imported the US is going to be utter garbage.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of old Samurai Flicks (Mr Kurosawa is #1!), but the modern horror flicks are just SO BAD.

[Twoducks]

Well, at least most Asian films don´t follow the western recipe (20 min into movie something has to happen, 40/45 min into movie another thing has to happen....)

Personally I really want to see some of the recent Asian films that are cleaning house on many international film festivals (films directed by Kim ki-duk, for example).

It's nice to see something that's not paced as a Hollywood film.

[Ghadrack]

Japanese Ultra-Violence / Shock-Violence horror genre movies are bound to get the "WTF" or "This is crap" label from most, personally I love the Takashi Miike films just for that insanity that you don't find here. Takashi Miike made Ichi the Killer, he has made about a hundred movies, some of his other films include, Visitor Q (Awesome flick), Gozu (Truly messed up), Audition (In the Bravo top 100 horror), Full Metal Yakuza (Wierd but funny), Happiness of the Katakuris.

I am sure that every one of these movies with the exception of Audition would get a big fat "WTFBBQ!" out of most of you, they are low budget niche films that wouldn't get made here.

I got into unsettling movies for a while, movies like Requiem for a Dream, Happiness, I Stand Alone, Irreversible, movies that have a far from happy ending, several of the Takashi Miike films fall under that umbrella.

There is violence for the sake of violence, there is gore for the sake of gore, most of those movies have a relatively simple theme at their base and the rest is just color to spice things up. Don't make any mistake though, these aren't major studio approved big budget blockbusters these are closer to true independent cinema than you will see in any US theatre chain.

[wolfx]

Itchi the Killer is about relationships and how we come to depend upon or manipulate others for our own fullfilment.

Battle Royale is about the competitive society that is Japanese youth and how the parents control their youth into being competitive.

Both films use the extreme to get their message across.

My opinion anyway.

I have not seen the others.

Ok since there was at least SOMEONE didn't go WTFBBQ , i feel real stupid right about now.

I think you hit the jackpot on that....but it doesn't help if someone stupid like me didn't get it.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I myself deeply loathe the whole concept that "ultraviolence" is a movie type. I've seen a lot of real world "ultraviolence" in my time and when seeing it on the screen it makes me sick, physically sick. I barely made it through Ichi and I had no clue what made me keep watching it. IMHO people who make movies like that and like movies like that are themselves sick... they have no clue what death is really like. Few people who have seen death firsthand really like to sit down with a bag of popcorn and a soda and watch people get disemboweled and slashed. It's not "Art", it's sickening.

But that is just my opinion... and I for one will think twice before watching any Japanese movies on cable from now on thanks to Ichi. I'm just glad my wife was not up with me watching it, not only would it have been turned off but I would have been yelled at for watching it in the first place. She shares my views but unlike me seems to possess the ability to shut it off.

[Tober]

Ghadrack, I like the way you think. Have you seen Izo? It is the only one of Takashi Miike's films that I haven't liked. When I saw the heading of this thread it was the first thing that came to mind.

Chan-wook Park, Takashi Miike and Gaspar Noe are the current independent movie world's darlings. And rightfully so.

Chan-wook Park's 'Oldboy' is absurd but sheer class all the way. Grand Prix winner at Cannes. His others are also worth the effort of finding.

If you like intelligent cinema that forces you to think for yourself instead of simply giving you the conclusion of the story at the end then Asian cinema has much to offer.

Most of Hollywood just bores me to tears. They can't create anything stimulating by using market driven formulas, it's basically a contradiction.

[wolfx]

Not an artsy film, but i started playing Killer 7 on the PS2 only because I like the stylised cel-shaded art shown on the cover of the game. When i started playing it...i'm like....WTF...!?

The game system is in 3rd person form, and you walk on an invisible "rail". You can only go in front, and backwards. When there's fork in the rail, you get to choose another path. Like enter the room or continue down the corridor. Battle system switches you to First Person and you got to take down ...urmm...weird enemies who run to you and explode on you while laughing hysterically.

Apparently you play a wheelchaired assasin named Harman. I know this from a faq since i was perplexed about my character changing between multiple personalities with different skills. Roite....i'm playing a psycho game. I'm helped by this guy in a BDSM gimp suit who keeps saying weird stuff like "We're in a tight spot".....roiteeeeee....

Story is no less brain churning. The USA is being attacked by terrorists who calls themselves Heaven's Smile. They go around jogging to you and blowing up as they do so with a creepy laugh. What's goin on? You apparently find out more as you go along i suppose. But....i really doubt that....

So...before i stop playing this game...can someone tell me if it has redeeming qualities that wouldn't make me dump this game into the dump?

[Mr March]

A lot of film can be pretentious, regardless of its location on the atlas. But don't be so upset by a few bad films. Korea in particular is beginning to experience a reniassance of sorts in the film industry. Some of the films coming out of Korea are truly bold and have some compelling drama. Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance was quite moving, despite the high level of violence in the subject matter. Keep watching and I'm sure you'll find a few more gems.

I'd recommend some Kar Wai Wong if your looking for some good "Artsy" film from Asia.

Edited July 21, 2005 by Mr March

[mikeszekely]

I don't know about some of the ultra-violent or WTF asian horror/gore films, but I love the slow, deliberate building of suspense in Hideo Nakata's films (something that I think the original American Ring remake managed, but the new American adaptation of Dark Water completely missed).

I also like how you're just screwed in Japanese ghost stories. In American ghost stories, it's always like you solve the mystery behind the ghost's unhappy death, and everyone lives happily ever after (Stir of Echoes), or if you can manage to get out of the house, you're in the clear (The Haunting). The Ring was good for this, because unravelling the mystery of Sadako's death didn't break the curse, only spreading it did. Juon was even better, in some ways, because people who'd only visited the house briefly were as screwed as the people who moved in, and leaving the house didn't stop you from getting it at school later.

I think the Ring and Juon are also notable for being the only two series with American versions that I actually liked.

[glane21]

I wasted a Netflix rental on Ichi. What a piece of crap. I'd like to find that Miike guy and put my foot in his ass but it would probably just get him off.

Itchi the Killer is about relationships and how we come to depend upon or manipulate others for our own fullfilment.

Battle Royale is about the competitive society that is Japanese youth and how the parents control their youth into being competitive.

Both films use the extreme to get their message across.

My opinion anyway.

I have not seen the others.

305790[/snapback]

[Max Jenius]

I dunno, I never caught on to the whole Japanese horror film fad. They're just as cheesy as any other horror film, I guess its just not my genre.

[phuqueue]

James Cameron made the 'special edition' and 'directors cut' as staples. I'm pretty sure his Abyss was the first mainstream film to come with a directors cut in LD. You could also argue that film supplementals that are standard today ( deleted scenes, commentary, featurettes) were influenced by Cameron. I think with Titanic, he redefined the 'disaster/love' film into its own genre. Lots of films have tried it later ( Pearl Harbor, Day After Tommorrow, etc)

I've never had the misfortune of watching Pearl Harbor in its entirety, but I don't really think Day After Tomorrow was inspired by Titanic. Titanic was basically just a romance that happened to take place against the backdrop of a historic tragedy. Day After Tomorrow shared much more with other action movies like Independence Day, Armageddon and Deep Impact, Speed, etc (some of which predate Titanic) where the romance is merely a subplot while the action is the focus of the movie. I mean, when I think of Titanic, I think of Leonardo DiCaprio and Kate Winslet. When I think of Day After Tomorrow, I think of freakish weather; ID4, aliens; Armageddon and Deep Impact, asteroids; and Speed, the bus. I think a more apt comparison might be Shaun of the Dead, which bills itself as a romantic comedy with zombies; but even that's a somewhat tenuous connection, since that movie was obviously heavily inspired by past zombie movies (with very little influence from any specific romance films) and, despite its self-billing, really does feel like a zombie movie first and a love story second, much like the aforementioned action films. Still, it's an important distinction to make: two movies may both include the elements of action and romance, but they aren't necessarily members of the same genre. It depends on which of those elements takes center stage and how they work together. In Day After Tomorrow, the romance between Jake Gyllenhaal and that girl seems kind of tacked on, as if the filmmakers just figured, "Well we have a young guy and a young girl so they've got to get together." That's not a love story, that's just a superfluous romantic subplot. Titanic, on the other hand, is a love story that could have taken place anywhere that a poor working man like Leo might conceivably run into a blue blood like Kate and hit it off. That it happened to take place on the Titanic is just an unfortunate coincidence for the would-be couple.

Not to say that Cameron isn't still an important and influential filmmaker. But let's not give him too much credit.

[kanata67]

gunie pig... VERY disturbing.

no one mentioned the live action "La blue girl"????????????????????????????

[dr_vandermeer]

I liked Ichi, Audition, and Battle Royale. I thought the remake of The Ring was much much better than the Japanese original. I LOVED Oldboy. I also like American horror movies, always have since Nightmare on Elm Street, Friday the 13th, Halloween and the like. When I was younger, I was really into Fangoria, FX magic, and Tom Savini.

That said I don't know if there's any real difference between American or Japanese horror when you take it down to the basic imagery. The plot mechanics of it, characters, and motivations, etc. are the only thing that 's different, but that could be said from movie to movie, regardless of country of origin.

I've never witnessed real death firsthand. Just secondhand images, for example things you'd see on rotten.com, or from a distance.

I don't know if I consider myself sick, just someone who knows how to separate reality and fantasy.

EDIT: Maybe I would feel differently if I experienced real death firsthand though.

Edited July 22, 2005 by dr_vandermeer