Just Watched Jurassic Park Again

[Skull Leader]

actually, in the book, I believe they HAD shoulder-fired tranqs for the T-rex (wasn't Muldoon and Dr. Wu chasing the T-rex while Grant and the kids were in the raft on the other side of the treeline?... I seem to recall Muldoon attacking the T-rex with some sort of Tranq bazooka or something... been a while since I've read it.)

All the more reason why I like the book more than the movie... Muldoon lives.

[reddsun1]

thanks for the info on the SPAS, JsArCLIGHT. I'm only familiar with those from the ones I've seen in films--apparently directors just looove these babies--but I've always thought they were pretty cool. If in an ass kicking contest with a gang of heavily armed thugs out to pepper your hide, I'd always figured that'd be the boom-stick of choice.

[Graham]

The SPAS got a nasty rep for being a finicky shotgun but they are tanks if you know how to use them.

Give me a Benelli M1, M3 or Remington 870 anyday over a SPAS 12. Too many damn knobs, dials, levers and buttons to operate on the SPAS 12.

I'm suprised that nobody has suggested the M79 or M203 40mm grenade launcher as a solution for taking down dinosaurs. True it's only single shot, but if it hits, the dino is down.

Graham

[Zentrandude]

[ and a t-rex is a hell of alot bigger than an elephant, its only logical to think that sometihng liek a T-rex or triceratops would have extremely thick skin, the teeth that the T-rex had to eat other dinosaurs are proof of that, and raptors needed a 6 inch long claw to hunt, no predators these days have weapons that extreme, they were needed back then

Many scienist are rethinking their ideas that TRex's were hunters. Many now believe that the t-rex was a scavenger that searched for carrion.

Actually, that's the minority opinion.

The majority is holding to the belief that Rex was a hunter.

T-rex as a hunter makes no sense. If it's running at full speed to catch its prey, and it trips, it's dead. It has no means of breaking it's fall. The force of the impact would pretty well detonate the T-rex's skull.

The scientific comunity is pretty slow to accept new ideas. Archeologists are the worst, but the paleontologists don't seem to be too far behind.

But the fossil footprints show that, whether or not it makes sense, the T Rex DID run at full speed.

Hell, the full speed estimate is BASED ON THE FOOTPRINTS.

See, this is what I find wrong with Jack Horner's scavenger theory.

The TRex has hunter teeth, not scavenger teeth.

The TRex DID run at full speed, whether his logic says it could or not.

They've even found dinosaurs with healed TRex wounds on their bones, if I recall.

also there was a show about trex only had life span of that of a large dog and grew like mad. so those bones would be pretty young and strong plus to grow that fast you need to hunt instead of finding already dead and particaly eaten animals to support the trex body.

[Opus]

The SPAS got a nasty rep for being a finicky shotgun but they are tanks if you know how to use them.

Give me a Benelli M1, M3 or Remington 870 anyday over a SPAS 12. Too many damn knobs, dials, levers and buttons to operate on the SPAS 12.

I'm suprised that nobody has suggested the M79 or M203 40mm grenade launcher as a solution for taking down dinosaurs. True it's only single shot, but if it hits, the dino is down.

Graham

I'd take a Saiga over any of previosly mentioned shotguns. The box mag gives it a definate advantage.

I think grenades would be relatively useless against a small fast raptor type. They'd be all over you before the first grenade went off. A light machinegun like an M240 or M60 might be better. A jeep with an M2 would be best.

[JsARCLIGHT]

The SPAS got a nasty rep for being a finicky shotgun but they are tanks if you know how to use them.

Give me a Benelli M1, M3 or Remington 870 anyday over a SPAS 12. Too many damn knobs, dials, levers and buttons to operate on the SPAS 12.

Not to mention it is a boat anchor. The SPAS 12, while complicated, used to be the only animal of it's kind when it came to specialized police breaching weapons. Nowadays items like the Beneli M series have replaced it. Have to remember the SPAS design is over 25 years old... and as reddsun1 pointed out they are mean-ass looking things and are a hollywood favorite because they are just so "evil" looking compared to normal shotties.

I'm suprised that nobody has suggested the M79 or M203 40mm grenade launcher as a solution for taking down dinosaurs. True it's only single shot, but if it hits, the dino is down.

The fuse on a 40mm grenade is armed by the spin of the round and most of the time they are set to arm after about 50 yards or so, so a M79/M203 would suck for close range fighting. The accuracy against a moving target at range is average, even for a marksman. Most of the time 40mil grenades are pumped through doorways or windows or over sandbag walls. Only possessing a kill radius of about 10 meters they sure as heck would harm the bajeebus out of a dinosaur but once again I think they'd lack the brute force to knock one down in one hit. Basically the things are frag grenades launched from a tube, very good at anti-personell... then again humans are quite frail targets, get a little shrapnel in one and we go down but a big dino like a T-rex or a brontosaurus I'd imagine could shrug off a shrapnel wound until it bled to death.

As for the flamethrower, while an impressive weapon to see in operation they are actually quite limited in capacity and killing power. They are more or less a "shock and awe" weapon. The dino might be scared sh!tless of the flames but even if you got a good full tank of burn on a T-Rex (and a full tank on the last generation of flamethrowers used by the US was a measly 20 seconds or so grand total) all that would happen is the T-Rex would light on fire, scream a lot, and probably stomp around for a good 30 seconds or more and set everything around it on fire as well as possibly continue to assault you. Fire and flame weapons are a usually a bad choice for offense. They pack a mean punch when used for what they were intended, clearing trenches and bunkers, but they are all but useless on open ground against moving targets.

[JB0]

actually, in the book, I believe they HAD shoulder-fired tranqs for the T-rex (wasn't Muldoon and Dr. Wu chasing the T-rex while Grant and the kids were in the raft on the other side of the treeline?... I seem to recall Muldoon attacking the T-rex with some sort of Tranq bazooka or something... been a while since I've read it.)

All the more reason why I like the book more than the movie... Muldoon lives.

Yah. And the Rex nearly killed them, because they misjudged the dose.

They thought they missed it untill it passed out like 10 minutes later, with it's tongue wrapped around... Tim, I think's head.

[reddsun1]

The SPAS got a nasty rep for being a finicky shotgun but they are tanks if you know how to use them.

Give me a Benelli M1, M3 or Remington 870 anyday over a SPAS 12. Too many damn knobs, dials, levers and buttons to operate on the SPAS 12.

I'm suprised that nobody has suggested the M79 or M203 40mm grenade launcher as a solution for taking down dinosaurs. True it's only single shot, but if it hits, the dino is down.

Graham

Ah yes, the M203/M16 combo: another classic "movie macho" weapon of choice. I dunno though; wouldn't the M16's small rounds lack stopping power against Raptors or other medium sized threats? You'd have to put a whole clip into a Raptor to drop it, wouldn't you? It almost certainly wouldn't conceivably seem practical to try to just use the grenade launcher against all of them...I'm thinking the best contemporary "equivalent" to a Raptor in terms of size/muscle/mass would be like, an elk, or a black bear maybe?

Anybody remember a little diddie from the 80s "My Science Project?" Another rent-worthy classic for the B-movie enthusiast. Our hero's packing a M203/M16 when attacked by a T-Rex; when the small rounds don't work at stopping it, he pumps a 40mm grenade into it's gut, stopping it cold. Blew it's guts out. The blast/kill radius for one of those rounds is about 5 m, isn't it?

[Opus]

The SPAS got a nasty rep for being a finicky shotgun but they are tanks if you know how to use them.

Give me a Benelli M1, M3 or Remington 870 anyday over a SPAS 12. Too many damn knobs, dials, levers and buttons to operate on the SPAS 12.

Not to mention it is a boat anchor. The SPAS 12, while complicated, used to be the only animal of it's kind when it came to specialized police breaching weapons. Nowadays items like the Beneli M series have replaced it. Have to remember the SPAS design is over 25 years old... and as reddsun1 pointed out they are mean-ass looking things and are a hollywood favorite because they are just so "evil" looking compared to normal shotties.

I'm suprised that nobody has suggested the M79 or M203 40mm grenade launcher as a solution for taking down dinosaurs. True it's only single shot, but if it hits, the dino is down.

The fuse on a 40mm grenade is armed by the spin of the round and most of the time they are set to arm after about 50 yards or so, so a M79/M203 would suck for close range fighting. The accuracy against a moving target at range is average, even for a marksman. Most of the time 40mil grenades are pumped through doorways or windows or over sandbag walls. Only possessing a kill radius of about 10 meters they sure as heck would harm the bajeebus out of a dinosaur but once again I think they'd lack the brute force to knock one down in one hit. Basically the things are frag grenades launched from a tube, very good at anti-personell... then again humans are quite frail targets, get a little shrapnel in one and we go down but a big dino like a T-rex or a brontosaurus I'd imagine could shrug off a shrapnel wound until it bled to death.

As for the flamethrower, while an impressive weapon to see in operation they are actually quite limited in capacity and killing power. They are more or less a "shock and awe" weapon. The dino might be scared sh!tless of the flames but even if you got a good full tank of burn on a T-Rex (and a full tank on the last generation of flamethrowers used by the US was a measly 20 seconds or so grand total) all that would happen is the T-Rex would light on fire, scream a lot, and probably stomp around for a good 30 seconds or more and set everything around it on fire as well as possibly continue to assault you. Fire and flame weapons are a usually a bad choice for offense. They pack a mean punch when used for what they were intended, clearing trenches and bunkers, but they are all but useless on open ground against moving targets.

OK I'll trade in my Flammenwerfer for one of these.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Flame Tank = different story.

Didn't those things have about a hundred gallons of glycerine? I've heard one of those 'nam era flame tanks could light up a city block. The only difficulty with a flame tank is keeping the flame on target, those old turrets didn't traverse too fast from what I remember.

I think the area we are all going to is that the large dinos should be treated not as animals but as enemy vehicles, and should be engaged as such. A good RPG I'd think would shape-charge it's way through a T-rex rather well.

[HWR MKII]

Any modern tank with a mine clearing plow would work well. Just shear the dinos legs off at 50mph. I dont think it would damage the tank too much since they go through brick walls at speed with no problem. A 120mm HEAT(high explosive anti tank) round would do the trick too. They like to detonate on impact.

For raptors a 20mm M61A1 mounted on an M113 chassis would be quite effective. The actual vehicle is made for anti aircraft AND anti infantry

Edited June 10, 2005 by HWR MKII

[ShadowerV2]

Shoulder fired Tranqs....... That would be huge.

Would something like that exist in the real world?

Heck if it was possible I bet you guys would love to hunt dinos in valks.

Hun the flying ones in fighter mode and T Rexes in Battloid mode.

Kick a T Rex clan across the island with one blow.

[Opus]

Flame Tank = different story.

Didn't those things have about a hundred gallons of glycerine? I've heard one of those 'nam era flame tanks could light up a city block. The only difficulty with a flame tank is keeping the flame on target, those old turrets didn't traverse too fast from what I remember.

I think the area we are all going to is that the large dinos should be treated not as animals but as enemy vehicles, and should be engaged as such. A good RPG I'd think would shape-charge it's way through a T-rex rather well.

T-Rex looks like he's built for speed. I think an RPG would have a hard time hitting it. ( unless it's in the hands of an experienced Mujahideen. ) Maybe a recoiless rifle woud be better.

[HWR MKII]

I imagined the shoulder launched tranq weapon to be about the size of the standard law rocket or soviet RPG.

[JsARCLIGHT]

If you're going recoiless then why not dig out one of those old 'nam era Ontos fighting vehicles? Those things packed six recoiless rifles on one chassis and allowed for faster repositioning and aiming without shooting a marking round. Plus they are armored like a tank to give you better protection in case old rexy gets a tad friendly.

[Opus]

If you're going recoiless then why not dig out one of those old 'nam era Ontos fighting vehicles? Those things packed six recoiless rifles on one chassis and allowed for faster repositioning and aiming without shooting a marking round. Plus they are armored like a tank to give you better protection in case old rexy gets a tad friendly.

Now you're talking my language.

[MSW]

also there was a show about trex only had life span of that of a large dog and grew like mad. so those bones would be pretty young and strong plus to grow that fast you need to hunt instead of finding already dead and particaly eaten animals to support the trex body.

I really doubt the T-Rex had such a short lifespan...

for one it takes a whole hell of a lot of food energy to grow that fast

and two it takes even more food energy to move a mass that large inorder to hunt for food to begin with!

to do that the T-Rex would have to be eating ALL the time, meaning little time for hunting (which means it wouldn't have much time to develop hunting skills inorder to catch and eat enough prey to keep up with its growth rate)...

Just look at how much a elephant has to eat per day just to maintian its mass. multiply that by the mass of a T-Rex. subtract the difference in food energy potential of the two different diets. multiply by the T-Rex growth rate. and multiply by the energy used by the T-Rex to hunt compared to the energy used by the elephant to graze.

Unless the T-Rex has some sort of internal fusion reactor, or solar power cells in its skin...ain't no way it can have enough energy to grow at that rate in such a short time frame as well as hunt for and eat prey...let alone reproduce...which takes a lot of energy, great way to loose wieght

[reddsun1]

Any modern tank with a mine clearing plow would work well. Just shear the dinos legs off at 50mph. I dont think it would damage the tank too much since they go through brick walls at speed with no problem. A 120mm HEAT(high explosive anti tank) round would do the trick too. They like to detonate on impact.

For raptors a 20mm M61A1 mounted on an M113 chassis would be quite effective. The actual vehicle is made for anti aircraft AND anti infantry

Yeah, runnin 'em over would work. But then you gotta worry about guts and muscle and shredded bone and crap mucking up the tracks--and some poor ba---rd's gotta hose all that crap off when all's said and done. No thanks. Talk about sh-t detail...

But seriously (is it possible to be that here?) I thought we were working w/in the constraints of the settings, i.e. theme park with limited personnel. Hammond's not going to want small tanks and other military surplus lying around a "family theme park/resort island," much less foot the bill for all this stuff. Also, what about the personnel's ability to make use of it? They ought to be highly trained, I'll give you that, but not COMBAT trained.

But hell, if this is a no-holds-barred-what-would-you-bring-to-the-rumble what if session, then I say go for it! You come to a knife fight, ya bring a gun! He sends one of yours to tha hospital, you send one a his to tha morgue!

Edited June 10, 2005 by reddsun1

[Mislovrit]

Plus they are armored like a tank to give you better protection in case old rexy gets a tad friendly.

Wrong on the armor they're only proofed against small-arms and shell fragments. It is something to be expected when it doesn't even weight 10 tons fully loaded. Though they're perfect for killing every single mother$%%834 or raptors (Utahs and the littles V bastas) within a half mile radius when firing a full salvo of flechette rounds.

[HWR MKII]

if its no holds barred i have only 2 words. Atomic Annie. The worlds only "real world" deployed field artillery unit capable of firing Nuclear rounds. Im not talking depleted uranium either but nuclear bombs fired from a gun. Craziest thing i had ever seen. It was even field tested in nevada using the Nuke rounds with live troops near it in a combat exercise.

[reddsun1]

Oh yeah, doin some S&D in gerwalk mode, with a full load out of missiles. Would be quite effective against T-Rex. Ability to follow terrain at high speed, then elevate to safe alt. quikly, and unload a salvo from hover. Ooh, nasty...

[Zentrandude]

also there was a show about trex only had life span of that of a large dog and grew like mad.  so those bones would be pretty young and strong plus to grow that fast you need to hunt instead of finding already dead and particaly eaten animals to support the trex body.

I really doubt the T-Rex had such a short lifespan...

for one it takes a whole hell of a lot of food energy to grow that fast

and two it takes even more food energy to move a mass that large inorder to hunt for food to begin with!

to do that the T-Rex would have to be eating ALL the time, meaning little time for hunting (which means it wouldn't have much time to develop hunting skills inorder to catch and eat enough prey to keep up with its growth rate)...

Just look at how much a elephant has to eat per day just to maintian its mass. multiply that by the mass of a T-Rex. subtract the difference in food energy potential of the two different diets. multiply by the T-Rex growth rate. and multiply by the energy used by the T-Rex to hunt compared to the energy used by the elephant to graze.

Unless the T-Rex has some sort of internal fusion reactor, or solar power cells in its skin...ain't no way it can have enough energy to grow at that rate in such a short time frame as well as hunt for and eat prey...let alone reproduce...which takes a lot of energy, great way to loose wieght

you need to watch pbs some times they have nice shows like the red-green show and nova

anyways heres an bit about it but not from the actual show. I remember they aged the fossils by counting the rings of the bones of the chest I think (its one of the bones they said was solid) think they said the oldest trex they aged was 26 or 16... its been awhile proly most like 26

link

edit: another link

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...40811_trex.html

Edited June 10, 2005 by Zentrandude

[NERV]

ok so the SPAS, since alan grant's jammed and he didnt know to just pump it again, probably were loaded with buckshot, which like i said before, would kill a raptor at close range, but thats about itsome type of thick body armor also wudve been a good idea, something the rapotors wouldnt be able to break thru so even if it attacks you, you can shoot it while its trying to get thru the armor, assuming they dont isntantly figure out to go between the plating

[Graham]

Weren't real Raptors actually supposed to be much smaller than they were portrayed in the movies?

Anyway, if I had to defend against Dinosaurs and was limited to civilian firearms. I'd probably carry the following: -

• One of the DSA Inc. semi-auto copies of the FN-FAL 7.62mm rifle.
  
• A pair of S&W 500 Magnum revolvers, the short barrel versions, as they are quicker to get into action than the long barrel version.
  
• A 12ga shotgun, either a Benelli M1 or a Remington 870 with slug ammo.
  

And of course lots of ammo for all the above

Graham

[JB0]

Weren't real Raptors actually supposed to be much smaller than they were portrayed in the movies?

They actually discovered a species that was about the right size shortly after the movie came out, called the utahraptor.

But yes, in reality the velociraptor is about half the size of the utahraptor/movie velociraptor.

[NERV]

if i could physically weild them, i would go for some thick carbon plate armor and gatt's dragonslayer sword

[Guest Bromgrev]

some type of thick body armor also wudve been a good idea, something the rapotors wouldnt be able to break thru so even if it attacks you, you can shoot it while its trying to get thru the armor, assuming they dont isntantly figure out to go between the plating

I doubt velociraptor-proof armour would be feasible. IIRC, there's a guy who's been trying to make some grizzly-proof armour, and he can't really move in it. I would imagine a movie-sized 'raptor would have at least equal, if not more claw-power than a grizzly. Also, the armour never got tested 'in action', because he could never get close to a bear.

Anti-Rex weapon? 20mm Oerlikon!

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

If I was going into a jungle/forest infested with Raptors and T-Rexes, I wouldn't feel safe in anything less then a light armoured vehicle like a Hummer or Truck (a tank would be best).

A hummer with a Browning .50 or 7.62 Minigun (ammo would take up most of the space and weight though) would show em Raptors who's da boss. I think a minigun would shave even the biggest T-Rex into 2 pieces with a 1-2 sec burst! I'm pretty sure the .50 would mangle a T-Rex pretty well too.

How effective are Ak-47s and M16s against elephants? I read that poachers use AK-47s to kill elephants. Not sure how fast it does the job though.

Oh yeah, strap some Claymore's onto the sides of the vehicle. That show spoil the Raptor packs' day.

[Sumdumgai]

Does anyone else remember hearing on the news some years ago, a find where some people dug up a velociraptor skeleton that was T-rex size?

For anti raptor and other smaller dinosaurs:

-shotgun: Benelli M3 Super 90 or that new Benelli M4 auto-shotgun that's been developped for the US Marines. Some Beneli shotgun.

-rifle: H&K G3SAS. The power of a G3 rifle in a gun about the size of a H&K MP5K. Probably has really mean recoil, but considering you need something that can maneuver in close ranges...

-pistol: some kind of big caliber revolver. I don't know my revolvers that well, so I'd go with some kind og magnum revolver. As big of a round as Desert Eagles may fire, I wouldn't trust a big caliber automatic. I've had plenty of guns jam on me at the shooting range, and to have your backup gun jam on you...

[F-ZeroOne]

I never read the book and I thought the movie was silly, but if I were going dino hunting I think I'd use one of these:

Flamethrowers scare the hell out of people but as I understand it, their main use was to suck the oxygen out of fortified positions, suffocating the occupants rather than trying to fy them.

Of course, if you're up against dinosaurs, theres always the Holy Laser Beams:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/theferrett/519211.html

Edited June 10, 2005 by F-ZeroOne

[VF-19]

My plan would begin with "After the B-52s have completed their carpeting runs..."

No way in hell am I going into a jungle with T-rexes and Velocoraptors. Not without a good saturation bombing first.

[mechaninac]

David Croket Tac Nuke Grenade. That would be my choice.

[do not disturb]

all i need is my trusty lightsaber, that combined with my jedi skills, the t-rex wouldn't even be a match.

[Sumdumgai]

Send in Naked Snake and the Cobras.

Seriously I would not want to use a flamethrower against a dinosaur. I think I'd just piss the thing off and have a flaming dinosaur trying to kill me, instead of just a dinosaur.

I saw on IMDB that there's a Jurassic Park IV in the works.

Wtf-mate!

[kanedaestes]

first u would have to install fear in the creatures, show them whos boss, and them while the run shot at them with a high powered laser. first one needs some kind of instrument of fear, a symbol. dinosaur are a superstitious and cowardly lot, alas i shall don the guise of a bat, and outwitt them, and use my amazing technology against them. haha, or use my spiderlike abilities and pummel them to death, or, or, just never go to an area that has a dinosaur problem