Starwars EP. 4, 5 and 6

[Sumdumgai]

Little did we all know Haterist, but the sand people are all really a bunch of hot amazon chicks that cover themselves up with stuff and go wild doing all sorts of crazy things. They do it in a fit of craziness for yaoi.

They were going to do things to Luke in ANH, but Obi-wan came to Luke's rescue. Luke lost his chance at getting laid (although they probably would have stuck things up his butt if they were a bunch of yaoi crazed amazons ).

And no, I'm not whining: I'm bitching. That is an artform! j/k

[Jolly Rogers]

America! F*ck Yeah!

Freedom is the only wayaaay!

Oh man, wrong thread again, sorry do0ds.

Thus begun the debate for the necessity of dicks in a world full of pussies and a-holes.

[Duke Togo]

ROTJ, he totally warned jabba, even at the very end, jabba laugh, jabba got the shaft

Actually, he didn't warn him, he flat out threatened to kill him. Very un-Jedi like.

[Dat Pinche Haro!]

the episodes should be remade into an intergalactic rapper dromity... have the game as luke, warren g as darth vader, too short as obi-wan, dr dre as palpatine, cg'd army of eminem's for the storm-troopers, alicia keys (only cuz i like her booty ) as princess leia, and snoop dogg as han solo as for yoda? russle simmons .... i got this idea from lookin' at a picture of some nike air force 1s with a storm trooper siluette printed on them...

Edited June 12, 2005 by Dat Pinche Haro!

[Hurin]

ROTJ, he totally warned jabba, even at the very end, jabba laugh, jabba got the shaft

Actually, he didn't warn him, he flat out threatened to kill him. Very un-Jedi like.

"I'm taking Captain Solo, and his friends. You can either profit from this, or be destroyed. It's your choice. But I warn you not to underestimate my powers."

He's offering to pay off Jabba. That's some threat!

H

[Duke Togo]

ROTJ, he totally warned jabba, even at the very end, jabba laugh, jabba got the shaft

Actually, he didn't warn him, he flat out threatened to kill him. Very un-Jedi like.

"I'm taking Captain Solo, and his friends. You can either profit from this, or be destroyed. It's your choice. But I warn you not to underestimate my powers."

He's offering to pay off Jabba. That's some threat!

H

I watched it this morning, he threatens to kill him atleast twice.

[Flaming Guantlet]

the episodes should be remade into an intergalactic rapper dromity... have the game as luke, warren g as darth vader, too short as obi-wan, dr dre as palpatine, cg'd army of eminem's for the storm-troopers, alicia keys (only cuz i like her booty ) as princess leia, and snoop dogg as han solo as for yoda? russle simmons

I can see it now, after dem Rebels done blow up the Deaf Star, Han goes and tells Leia...

Han: You's love him duzn't ya'?

Leia: You know I do boo.

Han: Aight cool, I stay out da way.

Leia: Nah boo it ain't like that at all. He's my brother.

Han: WHAT?! HELL NAH! AFTER SEEIN' WHAT YO TRICK SELF DID WITH LUKE ON MUTHAF*****' HOTH?! HELL NAH! THIS IS SOME STRAIGHT JERRY SPRINGER $HIT!

Sorry couldn't resist. You can thank my younger brother for this post since blasts his rap music all over my house(not that i have a problem with rap mind you).

[Sundown]

I'm not saying what he should have been.  I'm pointing out that he was arrogant and whiny from beginning to end because some people were saying he wasn't thaaat whiny.

I just decided to do a quick dirty summary of what makes him annoying.

At least Anakin had an excuse in AOTC.  He was an angsty teenager with raging hormones, wanting to jump Padmé's pants and rattle her bones.

Luke had whine moments. In comparison to Anakin, he was a reasonably well adjusted human being with a few reasonable reactions and moments of weakness that I can empathize with. And Luke by the end of ROTJ was anything but whiny in his collected and resolved confrontation of Vader and the Emperor. And I don't consider yelping while being repeatedly struck by lightning whining.

Anakin's excuse of being whiny and arrogant in AOTC doesn't really work for me... or at least it's not something that I particularly sympathize with. Teenage angst, as real as it might be, is still largely annoying and unbearable to watch in a semi-protagonist that I'm supposed to empathize with. It's just as annoying seeing it in real life kids, and it's entirely stupid how that sort of stuff is, even realizing that I wasn't all that different. Yes-- his whininess is due to him being an angsty, horny, powertripping teenager. But that's not a viable excuse... that's the entire problem in the first place. He's an immature jerk with evil and murderous tendencies. Knowing that doesn't make his behavior okay. It just does not make for a very compelling character, to me anyway.

Luke's what 20-something?  The teenager excuse doesn't work on him.

Anakin's own disturbing, narcissistic behavior doesn't end with adolesence... it actually continues and becomes magnified well into his 20's in Sith. Here, he no longer has the pat teenage excuse for his behavior... but yet, his whininess continues somewhat, and his neurosis actually grows worse.

I can't think of a remotely reasonable pardon for cold bloodly killing a literally unarmed Dooku after he'd thought about the implications of the act. Anakin went far beyond having any legitimate excuse for his attitude or behavior, at least two and a half times throughout the movies--when he killed Dooku in cold contemplative blood, when he killed kids, and to a lesser extent, when he killed an entire village of sand people in anger.

And in his final confrontation with Obiwan, with his petulant teenage "I hate you!", which is really, really unbecoming in the 20-something year old he was supposed to be by then, he was whiny to the last.

If Luke was "whiny", then Anakin is many times that-- and an unstable, obsessed, ungrateful, gullible, narcissistic, pedicidal psychopath to boot.

-Al

Edited June 12, 2005 by Sundown

[Hurin]

I watched it this morning, he threatens to kill him atleast twice.

No, Luke tells Jabba that keeping Han Solo, his friends and himself (Luke) captive is not an option. If you watched it this morning, I'd think you'd remember these two lines:

I'm taking Captain Solo, and his friends.  You can either profit from this, or be destroyed.  It's your choice.  But I warn you not to underestimate my powers.

Jabba.  This is your last chance.  Free us, or die.

That is someone giving an enemy one last chance to avoid their own destruction. Or, from another angle, it's a Jedi making one last effort to rescue his friend(s) without bloodshed. Or do you think that allowing Jabba to keep Han was an acceptable option?

[Sumdumgai]

Luke had whine moments. In comparison to Anakin, he was a reasonably well adjusted human being with a few reasonable reactions and moments of weakness that I can empathize with. And Luke by the end of ROTJ was anything but whiny in his collected and resolved confrontation of Vader and the Emperor. And I don't consider yelping while being repeatedly struck by lightning whining.

Anakin's excuse of being whiny and arrogant in AOTC doesn't really work for me... or at least it's not something that I particularly sympathize with. Teenage angst, as real as it might be, is still largely annoying and unbearable to watch in a semi-protagonist that I'm supposed to empathize with. It's just as annoying seeing it in real life kids, and it's entirely stupid how that sort of stuff is, even realizing that I wasn't all that different. Yes-- his whininess is due to him being an angsty, horny, powertripping teenager. But that's not a viable excuse... that's the entire problem in the first place. He's an immature jerk with evil and murderous tendencies. Knowing that doesn't make his behavior okay. It just does not make for a very compelling character, to me anyway.

Luke's what 20-something?  The teenager excuse doesn't work on him.

Anakin's own disturbing, narcissistic behavior doesn't end with adolesence... it actually continues and becomes magnified well into his 20's in Sith. Here, he no longer has the pat teenage excuse for his behavior... but yet, his whininess continues somewhat, and his neurosis actually grows worse.

I can't think of a remotely reasonable pardon for cold bloodly killing a literally unarmed Dooku after he'd thought about the implications of the act. Anakin went far beyond having any legitimate excuse for his attitude or behavior, at least two and a half times throughout the movies--when he killed Dooku in cold contemplative blood, when he killed kids, and to a lesser extent, when he killed an entire village of sand people in anger.

And in his final confrontation with Obiwan, with his petulant teenage "I hate you!", which is really, really unbecoming in the 20-something year old he was supposed to be by then, he was whiny to the last.

If Luke was "whiny", then Anakin is many times that-- and an unstable, obsessed, ungrateful, gullible, narcissistic, pedicidal psychopath to boot.

-Al

Okay by the time Luke confronts Vader and the Emperor, he's not really whiny. Instead he's arrogant beyond belief thinking that he'll be able to take on two Sith Lords and turn one of them away from the dark side of the force. As someone mentioned earlier either in this thread, or the ROTS thread, I see it less that Vader kills the Emperor out of the goodness of his heart, and more as "you're f*cking with my son, family ties are stronger than sith!"

Yelping is one thing. Being all "You failed your highness. I'm a Jedi like my father before me," and saying it arrogantly after tossing away your only source of protection is another. What gets me isn't that he yelps and screams, it's that he cries for help from his Dad.

Ah but for teenage Anakin that's where we see the problems of why he shouldn't have been trained in the first place. Not only does he have the teenage angst and horniness, he's got that sense of invincibility that teenagers get. Even worse for a Jedi. It just goes to show why he should never have begun his training. He's too emotional without enough self-control.

Wiping out the sand people, I can understand. Knowing my Mom was tortured to death and only being able to come to her at her final moments, I don't know what I would do, but seriously considering wiping out the tribe would be at the top of my list. I can empathize with his decision on Tatooine, and the teenage angst because I've been there (like a lot of us here on Macrossworld. good luck to those who are still in this stage! ).

Yes he whines in ROTS, I've never argued against that. Neurotic would be a good way to describe Anakin descriptively, paranoid and narcissistic. But for a real psychological analysis, neurosis no longer exists as a category for diagnosis in the US. I think it got phased out in the DSMIII.

Once Anakin starts down the Dark Side though, it seems more like he goes out of neurosis and into psychosis. He breaks off with reality, turns into a psychopath (meaning he does criminal things), and completely twists reality around.

If we're going on the neurosis (they got folded into the Personality Disorder categories) diagnosis, then Anakin's annoying behavior comes from that. A problem in being raised: Obi-wan's fault, he just didn't do enough, or do it right.

If when he turns to the dark side he's having a psychotic break, then it's not really that Anakin is evil. It's more so that he's lost touch with reality because it's too harsh, and replaces it with a twisted reality that suits him better.

'I'm not a mass murderer, I'm the saviour of my new empire'

'I killed them all for you'

'I strangled her because it's your fault, you turned her against me'

'From my view the Jedi are evil'

No matter what "facts" from reality get thrown at Anakin, by the time he's Darth Vader, everything gets twisted around and distorted.

After having spent a semester studying psychosis, I really feel sorry for Anakin, even when he's turned into Darth Vader. Anakin's been shafted throughout the prequal trilogy. If he really is hacing a psychotic break, like it looks like he is to me; then I can't really consider him as evil as many people claim him to be. Psychosis sucks.

I think I need to eat, all my trains of thought have derailed at various locatoins, and I'm not sure what my point is anymore.

Uhm. I like lightsabers.

[mikeszekely]

I watched it this morning, he threatens to kill him atleast twice.

No, Luke tells Jabba that keeping Han Solo, his friends and himself (Luke) captive is not an option. If you watched it this morning, I'd think you'd remember these two lines:

I'm taking Captain Solo, and his friends.  You can either profit from this, or be destroyed.  It's your choice.  But I warn you not to underestimate my powers.

Jabba.  This is your last chance.  Free us, or die.

That is someone giving an enemy one last chance to avoid their own destruction. Or, from another angle, it's a Jedi making one last effort to rescue his friend(s) without bloodshed. Or do you think that allowing Jabba to keep Han was an acceptable option?

A death threat is still a death threat, and I don't see a real Jedi tossing them around like that. A real Jedi would have tried to negotiate his friends' release without the death threats. And when those negotiations failed, yeah, a Jedi would get out the lightsaber, chop down the bars on the cell, deflect some blaster fire, and maybe be forced to kill a few people... but no more than he'd have to, and likely NOT Jabba, considering how far he'd be from the cells.

[Hurin]

A death threat is still a death threat, and I don't see a real Jedi tossing them around like that.

It's not a death threat to say: "Look, you can't keep Han. And if you do, I'll be forced to use force. You can't win if I use force, and you will be killed. I'll even give you money for him. Be reasonable."

Dude, he was negotiating with Jabba the Freakin' Hutt. He couldn't afford to show weakness or use nice diplomatic language that would only be interpreted by the galaxy's most vile gangster as weakness. Luke knew that Jabba would never negotiate. But, like a Jedi, he still had to try.

Knowing that Jabba would never negotiate, Luke and the rest put together a plan that came off very well. First, Lando arrived and took up position. . . then Luke "gave" R2-D2 and Threepio to Jabba as a diplomatic gesture (but R2-D2 had Luke's lightsaber, because they know Jabba won't negotiate). Then, they get Chewbacca and Leia in there (and get Leia very close to Jabba himself) while also getting Han defrosted and more mobile. Finally, Luke arrives and it's showtime.

All that complexity, however, makes me wonder if Luke used the Force a bit to see the future. Because it otherwise would have been difficult to know how the execution would have gone down. . . unless it was widely known that Jabba likes to use the Sarlaac pit.

But, even with all that planning. Even knowing he would never agree, Luke, at the edge of oblivion, still manages to give Jabba one last chance: "Free us, or die." It's pretty much the only way to deal with an a-hole like Jabba. Well, other than killing them. . . which is what Luke had to do.

Is this where everyone starts talking about how Jabba was shown in the prequels to be not such a bad guy. . . like some other OT villain?

H

Edited June 12, 2005 by Hurin

[Duke Togo]

Jedi don't attack. They defend. He threatened him with death, very un-Jedi like.

[Hurin]

Jedi don't attack. They defend. He threatened him with death, very un-Jedi like.

Six movies contradict this. Luke was "defending" because Jabba attacked him and his friends. As soon as Jabba says: "Put him in" (to the Sarlaac), Luke is acting in self-defense (and the defense of his friends). In the same way Obi-Wan was "defending" against General Grievous when Obi-Wan attacked and killed him (all the while using the Force to enhance his abilities despite the fact that he used them to kill Grievous).

Yet, Obi-Wan went to that planet to kill/capture Grievous. So, is Obi-Wan behaving "un-jedi-like" there? No. Because even though he's heading somewhere to capture/kill, he's doing so in defense of the Republic. A Jedi would never use the Force willingly in the service of an aggressive war (as a Sith would do). But he would use the Force as a soldier in a war to defend the Republic. Indeed, they all did. Even though, in the end, the war was a ruse of which they were unaware.

H

[Duke Togo]

Had Grevious surrendered, Obi-Wan could not have killed him. Its against the Jedi code.

As far as Luke goes, he clearly threatens Jabba with death, he Force chokes two Gamorreans, and he wears all black. I wonder why this is...

[Knight26]

that's because luke is the first of a new jedi order, that isn't as dogmatic as the old order yet doesn't embrace sith teachings either.

[Hurin]

Had Grevious surrendered, Obi-Wan could not have killed him. Its against the Jedi code.

Had Jabba said: "Okay, I will take money for Solo". . . do you think Luke would have still killed him? No. But it would also have been a much more boring movie.

As far as Luke goes, he clearly threatens Jabba with death

Keep saying that. Doesn't make it true. He's merely stating that Jabba has a choice of living (and profiting!) or dying. . . but keeping Solo is not an option. You can put your hands over your ears, close your eyes and repeat: "It's a death threat! It's a death threat!" as many times as you want. But, well, it's obviously hot. And were I to actually believe that you believe half the stuff you're writing and weren't just trying to antogonize, I'd think you're quite stupid at this point. But, you're not, you're just trying to get a rise out of me.

Luke is no more arrogant towards Jabba than Obi-Wan is with Grievous when he confronts him (twice) in EpIII.

he Force chokes two Gamorreans, and he wears all black. I wonder why this is...

Because he's really part Sith!?! Oh my God! You're right, dude! Now it all makes sense! Luke is a Jedi/Sith Hybrid! And, as such, he represents Balance in the Force once all the Jedi and Sith are extinct by the end of the movie!

Oh, wait. . . Anakin wore all black leather too in EpIII as a Jedi Knight before he went evil. Oh, and maybe he Force choked those Guards because it looks cool and moved the story along quickly while demonstrating at the outset that Luke has grown pretty darn powerful. . . oh, and he didn't have his lightsaber on him at the time. One might also point out that he didn't Force choke them to death. He merely got them to not attack him or waylay him.

If you really think that Lucas was putting in supporting evidence for your pet theory about the "balance prophecy" way back in RotJ. . . I can't help you. But it's comical that you think so considering you are now contradicting yourself (for the umpteenth time). I wonder if you'll be able to figure out how. Here's a hint: You argued on a prior occasion that Lucas didn't start subscribing to your pet theory until after TPM. Which would make it hard for him to put all this "supporting" stuff into a movie over a decade earlier.

Not that I think that you'll give it any thought. You'll just troll some more by coming up with an irrelevant quote that is easily dismissed, while posting it in a triumphant tone.

It's obvious you are either functionally retarded and don't know how to actually make an internally consistent, cogent argument (or address the arguments of others). . . or you really don't believe in anything you type, but are just trying to annoy (to those new to this, trust me, it's been obvious to even casual observers in other SW threads). So, no, I'm not calling you retarded.

But, I am saying that I no longer wish to gum up threads pointing out the huge holes in your "arguments", their inconsistency, and their contradictions. I think I've demonstrated pretty clearly over about ten billion words (to your five) that you're full of crap. And worse, you know you're full of crap and are only typing because you want to annoy me and possibly cause me to lose my temper. So you just keep posting the same refuted "arguemnts." So, this will go in my signature as under: "Why I no longer take the time to speak to Duke Togo about Star Wars. Your goal is not to persuade. . . your goal is merely to get me to type a lot (oh no!) and annoy me.

H

[Duke Togo]

As far as Luke goes, he clearly threatens Jabba with death

Keep saying that. Doesn't make it true.

Actually, yes it does. I watched it yesterday.

[Duke Togo]

that's because luke is the first of a new jedi order, that isn't as dogmatic as the old order yet doesn't embrace sith teachings either.

Would you say this follows something along the lines of the teachings of Qui Gon Jinn?

[Hurin]

Sig.

[Hurin]

How about if I modify my new rule to respond in only fifty words or less, since that's all it takes. . . since I can alway just refer back to where what you've said has already been refuted (repeatedly).

Actually, yes it does. I watched it yesterday.

Yet your memory of it is faulty. Feel free to read the rest of what I wrote. Funny how you don't quote that back and respond to it. Could it be because you are trolling? Nah!

P.S. You realize that if you weren't an old-timer, you could get in trouble for this type of trolling, right?

[Duke Togo]

How about if I modify my new rule to respond in only fifty words or less, since that's all it takes. . . since I can alway just refer back to where what you've said has already been refuted (repeatedly).

Actually, yes it does. I watched it yesterday.

Yet your memory of it is faulty. Feel free to read the rest of what I wrote. Funny how you don't quote that back and respond to it. Could it be because you are trolling? Nah!

P.S. You realize that if you weren't an old-timer, you could get in trouble for this type of trolling, right?

How is this trolling? I watched the stupid movie yesterday. He threatens Jabba with death. Jedi don't do that. They don't say, "do this or die". That's not how it works. I've been watching these movies for 26 years, I know how they go.

[Hurin]

Would you say this follows something along the lines of the teachings of Qui Gon Jinn?

Yes! I especially liked the part where Qui-Gonn dressed in all-black and Force choked Watto!

[Hurin]

He threatens Jabba with death. Jedi don't do that. They don't say, "do this or die". That's not how it works.

Please address how it was stated above that this is not a "death threat." Where do you find it lacking and unconvincing? You have repeatedly refused to do so and merely restate your assertion.

For convenience, here it is again:

It's not a death threat to say:  "Look, you can't keep Han.  And if you do, I'll be forced to use force.  You can't win if I use force, and you will be killed.  I'll even give you money for him.  Be reasonable."

Dude, he was negotiating with Jabba the Freakin' Hutt.  He couldn't afford to show weakness or use nice diplomatic language that would only be interpreted by the galaxy's most vile gangster as weakness.  Luke knew that Jabba would never negotiate.  But, like a Jedi, he still had to try.

P.S. Hey, this is fun! You can be exposed as a troll or a moron (your choice) in much shorter time than I thought!

Edited June 12, 2005 by Hurin

[Max Jenius]

And in his final confrontation with Obiwan, with his petulant teenage "I hate you!", which is really, really unbecoming in the 20-something year old he was supposed to be by then, he was whiny to the last.

So screaming you hate someone in a rage is limited to teenagers? I work in the Residence Halls for older students at my university and while I haven't heard it often, it has happened more than once. Those couples...

He was in a life and death battle with what used to be his best friend, the dark side of the force was giving him power(anger helps it flow) and he just had his limbs chopped off. I would probably hate someone then too.

And Togo- Jabba had the option. Before busting out, Luke was like hey man, this is your last chance. He can't make a very convincing death threat with his saber sitting in R2.

[Duke Togo]

And Togo- Jabba had the option. Before busting out, Luke was like hey man, this is your last chance. He can't make a very convincing death threat with his saber sitting in R2.

Yeah, but Jedi don't make death threats. "Do this or die" is not the "Jedi way". Neither is Force choking.

[Hurin]

Yeah, but Jedi don't make death threats. "Do this or die" is not the "Jedi way".

How should he have negotiated with the most vile gangster in the galaxy? What other options were there? Again, he offered to pay Jabba for Han. It's only the fifth time or so that I've asked you address this. . . still waiting. Doesn't the offer of money for Han sorta remove the "threat" portion? Luke was merely pointing out the options. . . and doing so confidently. . . in the same way Obi-Wan did in EpIII. In the only way a ruthless mob boss would understand.

Neither is Force choking.

According to. . . ?

It's not like he killed them. He just pushed them back by the throat using the Force. You might as well say that all the Force Pushing seen throughout prequels are not the Jedi way. It's a way of non-lethally stopping someone.

I'm at my word limit. Sorry. Can't enlighten you any further. . .

[Duke Togo]

Yeah, but Jedi don't make death threats. "Do this or die" is not the "Jedi way".

How should he have negotiated with the most vile gangster in the galaxy?

That's not the point. The point is, Jedi don't do that. Say all you want, it doesn't change that.

[EXO]

If you look at it that way, isn't the act of turning on a lightsaber a death threat itself? Being a jedi in itself is a death threat... they're there to enforce the law of the Republic and anyone that stands in their way WILL get killed, or at the very least lose a limb.

[Duke Togo]

If you look at it that way, isn't the act of turning on a lightsaber a death threat itself? Being a jedi in itself is a death threat... they're there to enforce the law of the Republic and anyone that stands in their way WILL get killed, or at the very least lose a limb.

They have lightsabers to defend themselves.

"He wil join us or die, my master"

"There is no escape. Don't make me destroy you."

- Darth Vader

"You can either profit by this or be destroyed."

"Jabba! This is your last chance. Free us, or die."

- Luke Skywalker

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes"

- Obi-Wan Kenobi

[EXO]

hmmm.. I can accept that. I can't even begin to call myself a fan compared to you guys. I just watch the movies for fun.

[Hurin]

Yeah, but Jedi don't make death threats. "Do this or die" is not the "Jedi way".

How should he have negotiated with the most vile gangster in the galaxy?

That's not the point. The point is, Jedi don't do that. Say all you want, it doesn't change that.

Sixth time: Doesn't offering money in any way negate the "death threat". . . it's not a death threat if you offer a fair alternative. Ineed, it's not even "fair" from Luke's point of view since he's essentially paying ransom.

You don't like answering questions because you can rarely back up what you say. When you do answer them, you like to deceptively chop the quote up and then answer a question that was never really asked.

So. . . just so we're clear: You're saying that Luke is your vaunted "Sith/Jedi" hybrid that maintains Balance in the Force after all other Jedi and Sith have died by the end of RotJ. You base this upon Luke "Force choking" (though not to death) a couple guards, his using a "death threat" (that isn't one, since he's offering Jabba money and attempting to negotiate a ransom for Han's return), and that he wears black (even though Anakin wears all-black as a Jedi Knight prior to going over to the Dark Side).

Now, you claim that this is all evidence that Luke represents the teachings of Qui-Gonn Jinn. That Luke is a Sith/Jedi Hybrid (even though you can't point to any instance of Qui-Gonn embracing the Dark Side or encouraging anyone to dabble in its use). Yet, the entire soul of Return of the Jedi is wrapped around whether Luke will embrace the Dark Side. . . and its climax (and the entire point) is when Luke utterly rejects the Dark Side and embraces his title of "Jedi Knight" (hence the title of the movie, dontchyaknow).

Now, you point out these foibles in Luke's behavior (wearing black, death threats, etc.) as your evidence. And they are easily explained away. . .yet even if they weren't, has it not occurred to you that Lucas may not have had as clear an idea how Jedi should act in his world when he wrote RotJ? Indeed, it seems safe to assume that he gave it a lot more thought only when he had to sit down and write three movies where Jedi Knights were commonplace and we would finally get to see how they all behaved at their height.

But the funniest part is how you don't seem to take any of this into account, but instead want to twist it all to fit your pet theory. . . even though you yourself have said that Lucas didn't subscribe to this theory until after EpI. And, what makes it even funnier is that Lucas has contradicted this theory recently, publically and repeatedly.

But, so much of this I covered in the other thread. I say I instead of we because you've never really addressed any points that detract from your little theory. When pressed, you just restate it, or try to misdirect things by heading off in a different direction, rather than addressing what was said. Indeed, in addition to the five or six points brought up here in this thread that you choose to ignore, there's still the matter of the seventeen counter-points that you conveniently choose to ignore because they essentially destroy your argument.

I really don't think there's anything left to say to you beyond that. I'm well over my word quota. And the most you'll do is pick one sentence out of this, find a nonsensical quote with wich to respond, and count on my anal-retentiveness to compell me to point out that you aren't making any sense. Instead, I'll just point back to this post. Unless, of course, you actually say something substantive and address an appreciable portion of the counter-arguments and points arrayed against you. But, just so you know: "I saw it yesterday" isn't an argument.

But, your goal has never been to prove (or even make) your point. It's just been to annoy and carry on a grudge.

Been fun though!

H

[Duke Togo]

You don't like answering questions because you can rarely back up what you say.

I believe I just did above.

[Hurin]

You don't like answering questions because you can rarely back up what you say.

I believe I just did above.

Please see first line in this post. Oh, and the other twenty-five questions.

[Duke Togo]

You don't like answering questions because you can rarely back up what you say.

I believe I just did above.

Please see first line in this post. Oh, and the other twenty-five questions.

What does that have to do with me backing up what I say or not. I clearly did above.