Starwars EP. 4, 5 and 6

[Hurin]

fair enough, but knowing this, why start shiet with him?  why not assume he wasn't mocking you and just answer the question(w/o arguing) and move along? 

and honestly, don't just blame him, its the both of you guys that i see arguing endlessly in every single SW thread thats popped up recently.  back and forth, back and forth,  the least you could do is keep it one SW thread so the rest of us can enjoy the others. 

seriously dudes, chill out, get back on topic, or just bitch through PM's.  this has been going on for weeks now, aren't either one of you guys tired yet? 

haterist,

I don't "blame" just him for arguing. Because I don't see anything wrong with arguing. And about 99% of our arguing has been on-topic and we've had good, honest debates.

But, do you know what's more annoying than the two guys arguing? The guy who always (without fail) swoops in and tries to score brownie points with the community by acting as the "let's all get along" monkey. I swear, you're everywhere we are, trying to bring peace and prosperity with your voice of reason. Where did you aquire this new zen state? Does it come in pill form?

In case you hadn't noticed, bsu and I are done. . . for now. (cue brooding, creepy music)

Now, can I ask for the re-instatement of the Roy Foker ban on our communicating?

H

P.S. You could have PMed that too, ya know.

[Blaine23]

At the moment, I'll be looking at a nude girl with far too few vowels in her name and ignoring you, BSU.

[Jolly Rogers]

No Schwarzenegger = NOT a good movie.

Jyah! Watch mah huliday klassik, "Gingow All Dah Way"!

[Hurin]

The whole, "All GL's other movies suck," is the lamest argument ever.

I don't give a sh!t what else he did or didn't do, we are talking about SW.

If someone creates something great, I fail to see why they need to create 2 things great to further prove their worth.

Look at it this way, IMO the greatest director ever is John Milius and he one mildly amusing and fun 80s action movie; Red Dawn, and then of course the greatest movie ever, Conan The Barbarian.

Well, Lucas is in a unique position because he has decided to "finish" his series of movies after a twenty year gap. So, it does become somewhat relevant if some believe that he has "lost his touch" during that twenty year gap. . .

But, on the whole, I agree with you. I just think that Star Wars (and possibly soon, Indiana Jones) are in a unique situation. But I don't mean to start up the whole "Did he lose his touch" debate again here. There's already threads for that.

H

[bsu legato]

At the moment, I'll be looking at a nude girl with far too few vowels in her name and ignoring you, BSU.

Whats her name? Mallatobuck?

[Kelso] Burn!!! [/Kelso]

[Blaine23]

At the moment, I'll be looking at a nude girl with far too few vowels in her name and ignoring you, BSU.

Whats her name? Mallatobuck?

[Kelso] Burn!!! [/Kelso]

What's even sad is that I had to look up Mallatobuck on google. I thought it might be some kind of mixed birth deer.

What's even sadder is that Mallatobuck has a page on Wikipedia?

Mallatobuck

[JKeats]

At the moment, I'll be looking at a nude girl with far too few vowels in her name and ignoring you, BSU.

Whats her name? Mallatobuck?

[Kelso] Burn!!! [/Kelso]

What's even sad is that I had to look up Mallatobuck on google. I thought it might be some kind of mixed birth deer.

What's even sadder is that Mallatobuck has a page on Wikipedia?

Mallatobuck

Por que en espanol?

Does it mean that your love for Wookies knows no boundaries, even that of language?

[bsu legato]

What's even sadder is that Mallatobuck has a page on Wikipedia?

Mallatobuck

Oh dear God, no! NoooooooOOooo!!!!

[do not disturb]

haterist,

I don't "blame" just him for arguing.

i don't, i blame the both of you....reading comprehension buddy, 1-800-ABC-DEFG, get hooked on it!

Because I don't see anything wrong with arguing. 

that by definition is the meaning of being a troll.

But, do you know what's more annoying than the two guys arguing?

i dunno? maybe the dude that don't know how to have a nice cold glass of STFU?

The guy who always (without fail) swoops in and tries to score brownie points with the community by acting as the "let's all get along" monkey.

browning points? from the community? yeah thats what i'm after, thats how i plan to take over the world! thats why you see me on the site all the time...don't know if you noticed but i don't really come here anymore because i could give a ratass about 99% of its members....and BTW, you're in the 99% group.

I swear, you're everywhere we are, trying to bring peace and prosperity with your voice of reason.  Where did you aquire this new zen state?  Does it come in pill form?   

if you're gonna be condescending, just do it, no reason to hide behind one of these. i thought you changed for a while there but your back, 100 times strong and about 1000 times gayer.

and as far as my newly acquired zen, i found it as soon as i stopped reading your posts. but now i'm on the verge of losing it because i was actually stupid enough to read this one. you happy now?

In case you hadn't noticed, bsu and I are done. . . for now.  (cue brooding, creepy music)

actually its just Bsu who's done, you're still talking smack at your butthole, as usual.

Now, can I ask for the re-instatement of the Roy Foker ban on our communicating?

you can but i doubt he gives a rat ass what you got to say....like the teacher from Peanuts whahwhwhahahhwwhhhahahahah.

but if he does ban me, oh well.....i think i'll live.

You could have PMed that too, ya know.

yeah i know i could've PM'ed you but it wouldn't have half as fun as this.

in closing....

SUCK IT!

i haven't lost my temper here in a long time, all i was trying to do is chill you guys out, then you have to come at me with your cocksucker attitude leaving me no choice but to be a dick to you.

it also doesn't help that i quit smoking so my patience(especially for you) is nil.

G

[Hurin]

haterist,

I don't "blame" just him for arguing.

i don't, i blame the both of you....reading comprehension buddy, 1-800-ABC-DEFG, get hooked on it!

Because I don't see anything wrong with arguing. 

that by definition is the meaning of being a troll.

But, do you know what's more annoying than the two guys arguing?

i dunno? maybe the dude that don't know how to have a nice cold glass of STFU?

The guy who always (without fail) swoops in and tries to score brownie points with the community by acting as the "let's all get along" monkey.

browning points? from the community? yeah thats what i'm after, thats how i plan to take over the world! thats why you see me on the site all the time...don't know if you noticed but i don't really come here anymore because i could give a ratass about 99% of its members....and BTW, you're in the 99% group.

I swear, you're everywhere we are, trying to bring peace and prosperity with your voice of reason.   Where did you aquire this new zen state?  Does it come in pill form?   

if you're gonna be condescending, just do it, no reason to hide behind one of these. i thought you changed for a while there but your back, 100 times strong and about 1000 times gayer.

and as far as my newly acquired zen, i found it as soon as i stopped reading your posts. but now i'm on the verge of losing it because i was actually stupid enough to read this one. you happy now?

In case you hadn't noticed, bsu and I are done. . . for now.  (cue brooding, creepy music)

actually its just Bsu who's done, you're still talking smack at your butthole, as usual.

Now, can I ask for the re-instatement of the Roy Foker ban on our communicating?

you can but i doubt he gives a rat ass what you got to say....like the teacher from Peanuts whahwhwhahahhwwhhhahahahah.

but if he does ban me, oh well.....i think i'll live.

You could have PMed that too, ya know.

yeah i know i could've PM'ed you but it wouldn't have half as fun as this.

in closing....

SUCK IT!

i haven't lost my temper here in a long time, all i was trying to do is chill you guys out, then you have to come at me with your cocksucker attitude leaving me no choice but to be a dick to you.

it also doesn't help that i quit smoking so my patience(especially for you) is nil.

G

Edit: Okay, I was going to leave it alone. . . but I just can't resist!

. . . and honestly, don't just blame him, its the both of you guys that i see arguing endlessly in every single SW thread thats popped up recently.

haterist,

I don't "blame" just him for arguing.

haterist,

I don't "blame" just him for arguing.

i don't, i blame the both of you....reading comprehension buddy, 1-800-ABC-DEFG, get hooked on it!

Man, that's just perfect.

Please note that I'm not responding in any other way. Just quoting for giggles. I'm not even touching that "definition" of the word "troll."

It has been a long time since I've seen an overreaction of this magnitude.

"Musta hit pretty close to the mark to get her all riled up like that. Huh, kid?"

Very, very Late Edit. . .

haterist: Hurin, even though we have a prior history of conflict, let me explain to you over the course of several posts why I find you annoying and why you need to shut up.

Hurin: Well, haterist, I've cordially responded to your concerns a few times, but may I suggest that I sorta consider what you are doing here annoying as well. . . and that you do it quite often.

haterist: How dare you!?! I shall now write a long, semi-coherent post filled with profanities!

Edited June 11, 2005 by Hurin

[JKeats]

America! F*ck Yeah!

Freedom is the only wayaaay!

Oh man, wrong thread again, sorry do0ds.

[Sundown]

The space battle in the begining was just amazing, compare it to ROTJ, ROTJ can use some more cgi star ships, x-wings, tie fighters shooting the hell out of eachother. Does anyone else feel the same?

No, no, and no. I found the new saber and space battle scenes pretty mediocre. Yes, the flash was pretty and neat in a sensory overload sort of way, but the pacing, flow, and emotion of the battles felt lacking. Seemed like most of it was flash for the sake of flash, rather than a battle or a fight that you could follow the highs and lows of.

The ROTJ space battle was infinitely more meaningful and was much more compelling to me, because you could actually follow the battle, and wasn't mired in an excess of stuff blowing up constantly. Not to mention that CGI in most cases still looks like CGI to me, and I prefer models unless the CGI happens to catch all the elusive nuances of a real physical model that indicates it's really "there" to the critical eye.

-Al

[Sundown]

second post...

just a thought, has it ever occured to anyone else that the only good things ever to come from lucas had harrison ford in them?

has it occured to you that SW and indiana jones is like the only thing hes put out. unless he did some B fims i missed, i love B movies.

3 Star Wars Films (w/out Ford)

Howard the Duck

Willow

Young Indianda Jones Chronicles

Tucker: The Man and His Dream

RadioLand Murders

Labyrinth

The Land Before Time

And that's only a partial list. . .

American Grafitti! Also with Ford.

And how can we forget THX-1138. Which is one of his only decent flicks without a Ford. But then again, he had Robert Duvall.

-Al

[Sundown]

Once again, I never suggested that was the case. My sole purpose was to point out that if he and his performances were somehow the only reason for Lucas' "good" films, he has turned in an equal number of sub-par to dismal films, that may or may not have sucked in part due to his performance.

But it still stands that Ford makes great movies (a vast majority of them in fact) without Lucas. Lucas has perhaps made one decent flick, or 4, depending on where you stand on the Prequels, without Ford.

And it's arguable whether Ford's stinkers are really all due to Ford's performance. I usually find his performance watchable in spite of a bad movie's premise.

I think evidence tends to point to the fact that Ford is a much better actor than Lucas is a director or screenwriter. Not that it's particularly easy to do that sort of comparison, but I do think they have different standings amongst their peers.

-Al

[Max Jenius]

Bruce Campbell FTW.

Bruce Campbell can't act, and he knows it, and embraces it. Making him funny as hell.

Han Solo? maybe he has the looks, but he can't act so: No.

Uh... neither can Harrison Ford. At least not in SW. You crack a grin and act cynical. Campbell can do that.

[Sundown]

Uh... neither can Harrison Ford. At least not in SW. You crack a grin and act cynical. Campbell can do that.

Isn't that "acting cynical"? Seems vaguely appropriate for a cynical smuggler sort... unless there are certain character expression that don't actually count as "acting" now, or the ability of a lesser actor to reproduce a reasonable facsimile automatically disqualifies any further similar work from being considered "acting" henceforth.

-Al

[Hurin]

Uh... neither can Harrison Ford. At least not in SW. You crack a grin and act cynical. Campbell can do that.

Isn't that "acting cynical"? Seems vaguely appropriate for a cynical smuggler sort... unless there are certain character expression that don't actually count as "acting" now, or the ability of a lesser actor to reproduce a reasonable facsimile automatically disqualifies any further similar work from being considered "acting" henceforth.

I think Max's point is that the role isn't very demanding. So therefore Campbell could handle it.

H

[Max Jenius]

Uh... neither can Harrison Ford. At least not in SW. You crack a grin and act cynical. Campbell can do that.

Isn't that "acting cynical"? Seems vaguely appropriate for a cynical smuggler sort... unless there are certain character expression that don't actually count as "acting" now, or the ability of a lesser actor to reproduce a reasonable facsimile automatically disqualifies any further similar work from being considered "acting" henceforth.

I think Max's point is that the role isn't very demanding. So therefore Campbell could handle it.

H

Yes, you're right. I mean, face it; its Star Wars. I think that Harrison Ford is PERFECT for the role and since there was a lot of ad-libbing due to GL's ambiguous approach to directing Ford made a lot of the character himself. BUT, the character isn't very complex or hard to emulate and I think that if anyone could do it, Bruce Campbell could. This is especially true since the characters have already been established, so a precident has been set.

I suppose I should have been more clear, and admittedly I was not being fair in boiling Han Solo down to his most base traits.

MOAR CHOPS DAMMIT!

[Max Jenius]

Since you guys suck...

EPISODE 1 - GOOD MOVIE

5 min chop, but I'm happy.

[Sundown]

Pretty true. I think what made Star Wars so fun and watchable is that Lucas lucked out on some of the casting-- he found folks that brought life to characters even when ambiguously directed, maybe because they were just such personalities themselves. Might explain why some of the PT acting seem so much stiffer, at least to me... most of the actors, however accomplished, seemed to be the type that needed more guidance than they got. The the ones that tended to be personalities ended up just being those personalities, so we end up with Sam Jackson as Sam Jackson, with lightsaber.

-Al

[Max Jenius]

Pretty true. I think what made Star Wars so fun and watchable is that Lucas lucked out on some of the casting-- he found folks that brought life to characters even when ambiguously directed, maybe because they were just such personalities themselves. Might explain why some of the PT acting seem so much stiffer, at least to me... most of the actors, however accomplished, seemed to be the type that needed more guidance than they got. The the ones that tended to be personalities ended up just being those personalities, so we end up with Sam Jackson as Sam Jackson, with lightsaber.

-Al

I found jackson to be somewhat refreshing. I liked him in a calm, wise role. I thought that was nice. I think Lucas lucked out with Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon. I think Hayden was pretty darn good imho. He played the whiny "ANH Luke" type along with the conflicted "ROTJ Vader" type. At least that's what I saw.

[mikeszekely]

Hmm... we gotta work the Governator in somehow. Even if it requires writing a new role just for him...

Oh, as for Palpatine... how about Ian McKellen?

[Sundown]

Hah, I dunno. Sam was just too much Sam to me. He was just too much of his hip-cat self, though I've seen him do generals and hostage negotiators with a flair that I think would have worked with his Jedi.

And ya know, Hayden just came off creepy and disturbed to me. I didn't see much of Luke in him, especially since luke was mostly rational, reserved, sucked up a lot of his own pain, and didn't fall into murderous rages very often. Even vader seemed rather reserved and quiet in his wrath, and I didn't see much of Vader's introspection and thoughfulness in Hayden. Okay, maybe his struggle between being mostly sane and a murderously disturbed psychopath reminded me of Vader's struggle between good, paternal love, and galactic conquest. Wait, no it didn't.

What's weird is that while we think of Luke as this whiny farmboy/Jedi throughout the entire OT, he was whiny for all of a few seconds in the beginning of ANH. Maybe for a few soul-searching minutes on Dagobah. And maybe when he got his hand cut off by who turned out to be his own dad. But for what horrible things have happened to him, he just pretty much sucked it up for the rest of the three movies. I went back and watched ANH and a bit of ESB, and he didn't seem especially whiny at all. But Hayden had a movie and a half of whinyness for Luke's few seconds, much of which he outgrew after leaving Tatooine, and was absent completely in ROTJ.

Maybe it's just because Luke's delimmas and decisions were ones were could better empathize with. Saving your friends by fighting evil. Making what appear to be pretty rational and decent decisions-- that being unprepared, actually lead to the Dark Side.

Anakins choices and concerns weren't as easy for us to empathize with-- your teacher holding you back from being uber, your teen angst, your massacre of an entire village in rage, your fixation on some Queen several years older, saving your wife by turning against your friends, killing kids, and embracing a master you know to be well, just not quite right... your creepiness in general.

-Al

[Max Jenius]

He was obsessed with Padme. That was his problem, it was a selfish love. HE didn't want to lose her, he didn't want her to live for her sake, or die as a natural part of life.

Interesting that you say that Luke was only whiny for a few seconds. I was watching the film with people that hadn't seen the movies since they were kids and they repeatedly, without prompt stated how Luke was a whiny little bitch and how they liked the prequels a lot more. Interestingly enough I found myself defending the OT far more than expected lol.

[Sumdumgai]

Arrogant is Luke. A trait more and more common amongst Jedi. Even the older more experienced ones.

He is whiny too.

I mean really, Luke in ESB is all like: 'Yeah I can become a Jedi! I'm all ready!' at first on Dagobah. 'I'm not afraid! I will finish my training, really I promise!'

Then he becomes bitchy and whiny: 'you ask the impossible' [goes to sulk in a marsh pool after dropping his x-wing deeper in the swamp]

'I have to go! I can save them and stuff! I don't need to finish my training yet! I can take on the empire single-handed! Don't worry old ben, I don't need your help!' (uh no pun intended, it just popped out)

[hand gets cut off, jumps in the hole, almost falls to his death] 'BEN HELP ME!!! OH GOD MY STUMP IT HURTS!!!!! BEN!!!! BEN!? Uh................ LEIA!!!!!!!!!'

Then in ROTJ: 'Jabba don't give me no crap man, I'm a Jedi now. Take this: JEDI MIND TRICK... Uh it didn't work, you're immune? Crap. Uh. I can kill you and everything in this room, unarmed and completely by surprise!' [gets dumped in the rancor pit and runs around like a rabbit on fire]

'Yoda, what do you mean I'm not a Jedi Knight yet? I gotta kill my daddy? But, uhm... like wtf he dissappeared!'

'I'll turn myself into the empire so I can get close to daddy. Daddy! I can feel the good in you! Crap that didn't work.'

'No I'll never join the dark side! I'll never be your bitch emperor. You're simple tricks to get me angry won't work!' [tries to hack down the emperor, ends up getting angry and hacking off daddy's hand]

[Throws lightsaber away like a total dumbass] 'I'm a Jedi, like my daddy before me. WTF HE'S ELECTROCUTING ME!! I'M UNARMED!!!! HELP DADDY HELP!!!!!'

Luke was whiny, arrogant, annoying, and plain old stupid often times.

[Wesker99]

If George Lucas is going to remake Starwars 4/5/6,

... then somebody is going to go over there and kick his ass!

Indeed.

[Pat Payne]

Howard the Duck

Willow

Young Indianda Jones Chronicles

Tucker:  The Man and His Dream

RadioLand Murders

Labyrinth

The Land Before Time

And that's only a partial list. . .

Let's see...

"Howard the Duck..." Marvel COmics has only recently allowed the character to make a return, after Lucas fricasseed him.

"Willow" Fantasy fluff. Passible taste, less filling. No box office.

"Young Indy" Nobody wanted YOUNG Indy...they wanted Older Indy fighting Nazis and Thuggees!

"Tucker" Bomb...might as well make a movie about Henry Ford, at least that wierdo would have made for some dramatic tension...

"Radioland Murders" Personally, I liked this one, but it went nowhere at the BO.

"Labyrinth" Meh. Jennifer Connelly wasn't hot yet, and David Bowie left his acting with the Spiders from Mars.

"Land before Time" Can anyone say "direct to video sequels?"

Now, I'm not really seeing the great successes for Lucas outside of "American Grafitti" and "Star Wars." OK, yes, there was his US producing help for "Kagemusha," but other than that...

Edited June 11, 2005 by Pat Payne

[Duke Togo]

I haven't been reading this thread because I find the whole thing rather silly. That said, i watched Jedi again today, and I must say, I was shocked by just how bad it was. Its worse than I remember it. That's a movie that has to be remade.

This is the first time watching it since seeing Sith (and the first time since the DVDs came out last fall), and I was really struck as to how arrogant and dark Luke is in Jedi. Doing the Force Choke, threatening Jabba with death, wearing all black... and the dude can't use a lightsaber worth shite. Any fully trained Jedi would wipe the floor with him.

Let's remake Jedi.

[Duke Togo]

"Willow" Fantasy fluff. Passible taste, less filling. No box office.

"Labyrinth" Meh. Jennifer Connelly wasn't hot yet, and David Bowie left his acting with the Spiders from Mars.

Willow was all about Val Kilmer killing things with two swords, and for that alone its cool. Well, that, and the Darth Vader wanna be general with the skull mask.

And um, Jennifer Connelly was ALWAYS hot. Watch her in "Once Upon a Time in America", its almost enough to make you wish you were a trekkie.

[do not disturb]

Luke was whiny, arrogant, annoying, and plain old stupid often times.

well if he wasn't all those things, what should have he been?

stern, wise, calm, smart, what?

are you saying the OT movies would've been better if he just started off as a jedi master? cause that would've ruined the entire story plus there would be no ANH, or ESB.

he acts(yes hes acting) like a little bitch because thats how the character was written. he doesn't know the ways of the force, he doesn't know anything about his father, he don't know much of anything other than life as a moister farmer and shooting womprats in his T-16.

as time goes on, he "acts" like less of a bitch and more like a jedi but in certain scenes(like the final duel w/vader in both ESB and ROTJ) he had to be all "Lukeish" as its a part of his character development which is key when making any movie.....and especially ones with sequels. i agree that whiney luke is annoying but he supposed to be, if he wasn't whiney, he wouldn't be luke.

[Sumdumgai]

Luke was whiny, arrogant, annoying, and plain old stupid often times.

well if he wasn't all those things, what should have he been?

stern, wise, calm, smart, what?

are you saying the OT movies would've been better if he just started off as a jedi master? cause that would've ruined the entire story plus there would be no ANH, or ESB.

he acts(yes hes acting) like a little bitch because thats how the character was written. he doesn't know the ways of the force, he doesn't know anything about his father, he don't know much of anything other than life as a moister farmer and shooting womprats in his T-16.

as time goes on, he "acts" like less of a bitch and more like a jedi but in certain scenes(like the final duel w/vader in both ESB and ROTJ) he had to be all "Lukeish" as its a part of his character development which is key when making any movie.....and especially ones with sequels. i agree that whiney luke is annoying but he supposed to be, if he wasn't whiney, he wouldn't be luke.

I'm not saying what he should have been. I'm pointing out that he was arrogant and whiny from beginning to end because some people were saying he wasn't thaaat whiny.

I just decided to do a quick dirty summary of what makes him annoying.

At least Anakin had an excuse in AOTC. He was an angsty teenager with raging hormones, wanting to jump Padmé's pants and rattle her bones. Luke's what 20-something? The teenager excuse doesn't work on him.

Luke's too sure of himself while he doesn't have the skill to back up his words. Even the emperor got dissapointed with him. I would have been disgusted too.

"So be it. Jedi."

[Hurin]

Luke's what 20-something?  The teenager excuse doesn't work on him.

I believe he's supposed to be 16 or 17 at the time of ANH.

Luke's too sure of himself while he doesn't have the skill to back up his words.

I think the Rebel High Command would disagree, what with his destroying the Death Star and all. . .

And that was when he was untrained.

Even the emperor got dissapointed with him.  I would have been disgusted too.

"So be it.  Jedi."

Now that's just silly. I'm sure you realize that he was disgusted with Luke's refusal to turn to the Dark Side. If anything, the Emperor was impressed with Luke at that point, since he'd just kicked the crap out of Vader.

H

[Duke Togo]

Can anyone explain to me why the rebels take two droids with them on their mission to Endor? I mean, everyone is wearing camo, and here is the gold droid walking around the forest. What's the point of the camo? They should have just put glowing neon signs on their heads reading "REBELS HERE!".

[Sumdumgai]

Luke's too sure of himself while he doesn't have the skill to back up his words.

I think the Rebel High Command would disagree, what with his destroying the Death Star and all. . .

And that was when he was untrained.

Even the emperor got dissapointed with him.  I would have been disgusted too.

"So be it.  Jedi."

Now that's just silly. I'm sure you realize that he was disgusted with Luke's refusal to turn to the Dark Side. If anything, the Emperor was impressed with Luke at that point, since he'd just kicked the crap out of Vader.

H

But we already know he's a damned good pilot that liked to shoot little animals while piloting his sky speeder or whatever. Yeah he used the force a bit to shoot in those torpedoes.

I do realise the emperor was disgusted with Luke's refusal to turn to the dark side. I'm a silly person!

Although Luke kicked the crap out of Vader, it goes to show how poorly trained he was as a Jedi. Stay cool, stay calm, stay collected: the Jedi way. Luke goes all overemotional because of his attachments and numerous times starts trodding down towards the dark side, swinging his lightsaber like a baseball bat.

I wouldn't be opposed to a remake as long as the original trilogy was left permanently available. I would much rather see some new material instead though.

Unfortunately I have a bad feeling that Star Wars is going to trod down the path of Trek, and turn into a steaming turd burger. Hopefully that bad feeling is nothing!

[do not disturb]

Luke was whiny, arrogant, annoying, and plain old stupid often times.

well if he wasn't all those things, what should have he been?

stern, wise, calm, smart, what?

are you saying the OT movies would've been better if he just started off as a jedi master? cause that would've ruined the entire story plus there would be no ANH, or ESB.

he acts(yes hes acting) like a little bitch because thats how the character was written. he doesn't know the ways of the force, he doesn't know anything about his father, he don't know much of anything other than life as a moister farmer and shooting womprats in his T-16.

as time goes on, he "acts" like less of a bitch and more like a jedi but in certain scenes(like the final duel w/vader in both ESB and ROTJ) he had to be all "Lukeish" as its a part of his character development which is key when making any movie.....and especially ones with sequels. i agree that whiney luke is annoying but he supposed to be, if he wasn't whiney, he wouldn't be luke.

I'm not saying what he should have been. I'm pointing out that he was arrogant and whiny from beginning to end because some people were saying he wasn't thaaat whiny.

I just decided to do a quick dirty summary of what makes him annoying.

At least Anakin had an excuse in AOTC. He was an angsty teenager with raging hormones, wanting to jump Padmé's pants and rattle her bones. Luke's what 20-something? The teenager excuse doesn't work on him.

Luke's too sure of himself while he doesn't have the skill to back up his words. Even the emperor got dissapointed with him. I would have been disgusted too.

"So be it. Jedi."

so you're whining about luke being too whiney? is that like irony or something. j/k

well let me ask you this then....

say luke isn't a teenager but an adult, now if you're stuck on a hot ass desert planet with your aunt and uncle and NEVER GOT LAID, would you be whiney?

i'd be whiney as shiet! damn its hot, damn this sucks, why aren't their any chicks on this planet, why does Biggs have to play so rough, this sucks, everythig sucks, everyone sucks!

as far as not backing up his words, ANH, he was all yapping about, "i use to bullseye womprats in his T-16 back home" to the other rebel pilots, sure enough, he blew up the death star.

ESB, he was meant to lose, that how the story was written plus the name of the movie was "The Empire Strikes Back" had he kicked vaders butt, it would've been called, The Rebels Strike Again!

ROTJ, he totally warned jabba, even at the very end, jabba laugh, jabba got the shaft....though it was from Leia since she ultimately killed him.

he smack around vader, who wasn't only considered the baddest mofo alive, but he was his father too! whens the last time you smacked around your father? he took him out like a chump.