Macross 7 Series

[FlyingPika]

Ive read lots reveiws about how bad this series is, but the fact is macross mecha are just awesome.

In your opinion, is it worth buying and sitting thro 52 episodes of hippyness just for the mecha scenes?

[LePoseur]

No.

I think Macross 7 is a great, if not flawed in its execution, show. However, I would never suggest watching it just for the mecha. I think anyone who did would be disappointed.

[Ido]

Mecha action in M7 IMO its the worst in Macross history, too much super-robot cheesines and recycled frame, there is some very nice vf-17 action but about the others vfs... Even if Dynamite 7 its the worst of the worst at least the mecha action were right but in the series its all messed up IMO.

IMO is a nice series too see but not really a nice macross for the way it has been done.

[Gyges]

LePoseur is exactly right. Some episodes have good mecha action, and overall I personally enjoy the show, but I sincerely doubt you'd be satisfied watching it just for the action.

[kensei]

Yeah. Just jump in the boat and see it, despite the warnings of other antiM7 members. Like or don't like the show, it's up to you. I reckon the mecha are cool, as it is the only time you will ever see a VF-19S, VF-11 Thunderbolt with Full Armour, VF-22 Strumvogels and of course the VF-17s! But yes, too bad there are many recycled frames.

[Duke Togo]

Ive read lots reveiws about how bad this series is, but the fact is macross mecha are just awesome.

In your opinion, is it worth buying and sitting thro 52 episodes of hippyness just for the mecha scenes?

There is nothing about Macross 7 worth sitting through 52 episodes for.

[promethuem5]

So who's taking bets on how long it'll take for A1 to kill this thread with Mac7 homosexual comparisons?

[azrael]

So who's taking bets on how long it'll take for A1 to kill this thread with Mac7 homosexual comparisons?

Any minute now.....*stares at watch* Hummm, he must be slow today.

[jenius]

I'm gonna agree with Duke Togo. However, you can get m7 basically for free and if you find yourself recently unemployed or otherwise incapacitated you might wanna just sit through the agony to earn your M7 badge. The valk action overall is pretty terrible (with a few exceptions) so don't look for M7 redemption there.

[Jin_Kune_Do]

Well i think that every serious Macross fan should atleast ONCE watch M7. I for one am not a M7 fan. It does have its place in the Macross timeline and its also nice to see (timewise) what happens after M+ in macross universe.

But besides all that, the series isnt my favorit at all. When i watched it i was greatly frustrated with Basara´s actions. Anyways, its not worth buying for just the action mecha, i would saw its really badly made. The Cannon Fodder fight scnes in Super Dimensinal Fortress Macross was waaaay more cooler, where one really gets a feeling of the high tense space combat going on. In M7 thous...its like pretty lame, makes one wonder where the heck the pilots learned to fly. You will notice that specially if you have seen how a VF-11 should be handled.

The only good thing about M7 is that it really makes you Hate(or love) it for what it is, so in that regards M7 did well. Cause if you dont like it. you wouldnt bitch about it heheh...you would simple not care.

- Jin

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I would watch macross II for the mecha, and macross 7 for Gubaba.

There is one episode where they have a robot convention and you get to see all these custom painted mechs. That might be an episode worth seeing and maybe the one with the Rebel zentradi Qraus actually getting to hit Basara (yay I cheered at this bit. Finally he gets hit!! )

[Keith]

You should pick it up for it's awesome story, music, characters, & further exploration into the mytho's of the Protoculture. The Armored VF-11, Vf-17's, Battle 7, VF-19 Kai, & various Varuta mecha are just icing on the cake.

[MAXXxxx]

even though I like the show, for mecha action I'd say NO.

otherwise yes.

[Aegis!]

This will bring about yet another f`cking flame-war AND most importantly :

This should go into the newbies thread !

SO

CLOSE IT FOR GOD´S SAKE!!!

Edited May 22, 2005 by Aegis!

[Radd]

Watch it for the themes, music, and character developement. In these points I think the show excels beyond most anime. However, the animation quality is mediocre, if consistant, and the mecha action isn't all that...well...actiony. There's a few good mecha scenes, but not at all the caliber of DYRL? or Macross Plus.

[FlyingPika]

thxns guys, some very mixed opinions. Im still pretty much in the same boat but more enlightened. Theres those sets on ebay going for real cheap. Do you think ADV will eva release an english version?

I know M7 will tickle my curiosity until i someday watch it, but im hoping (but know it is) its not another gundam wing (bought cheap set thing). The recycled frames and weak story really make Gundam Wing tedious to watch (like at the begining of the series, heavy gundam shoots at some mecha and them at some plane things, ie shooting down then shooting up, and eva since no matter what he fights, he always shoots at the sky afterwards just for good measure ). And apparently gundam wing is the best gundam series!?!?!? I have no idea how gundam has such a huge, well everything.

[Ido]

You can download the new M7 fansub from Central anime if you have a decent connection, this version is very good. HK subs sucks.

http://a.scarywater.net/ca/

[F-ZeroOne]

Gundam Wing is very probably not the best Gundam series, though other people might beg to differ. In fact, its a bit like Macross 7 in a number of ways; a series some people love to hate but which does have at least some merit.

Speaking personally, highlights of Gundam include Gundam 0080, Chars Counterattack, Gundam Zeta (though its more or less mandatory to list this; Graham disagrees... ), and Gundam Seed Destiny (though I like this more than I did the original Gundam Seed).

Gundam has a number of seperate timelines and Gundam Wing is set in one of these; it was an attempt, probably successful, to do something different with a long-running franchise.

And, no, I wouldn't recommend watching Macross 7 for the mecha scenes - watch Macross Plus for that!

And like I always say: the best anime is the one you like the best. Listen to others opinions, but remember Isamu in Macross Plus: you won't know until you try.

Edited May 22, 2005 by F-ZeroOne

[Noyhauser]

In M7 thous...its like pretty lame, makes one wonder where the heck the pilots learned to fly. You will notice that specially if you have seen how a VF-11 should be handled.

Well lets think about this. Most pilots in Macross 7 fleet were probably new pilots who were likely had little combat experience. I assume your comment about "how a VF-11 is supposed to be handled" is reference to Isamu dyson, which is an unfair comparison. Dyson was an ace as part of a military fleet that saw constant duty, rather than the long range colonization fleet which likely was a backwater for pilots (or whatever M-7's mission was... it had civillians). Him, Millia, Gamlin, are high quality pilots that put into the cockpit of any fighter will be able to inflict major damage. However what experience the vast majority of pilots in the M-7 fleet did have probably was against guerilla Anti-UN Spacy forces... not large scale fleet action (that is if they even had any experience at all). On top of that, what largescale fleet training they did have likely was calibrated against attacking zentredi, a basically static enemy that could have massive numbers, but at comparatively low technology, thousands of VF-11s were sufficient to stop an attack. I would argue the VF-11 essentially was VF-1 with upgraded avionics, aerodynamics and weapons, but nothing fundamentally different about its basic design philosophy.

However when confronted by the Vartua, who used completely different tactics, possessed superior technology, had previous battle experience with UN-spacy, and conducted massive fleet battles, the Mac 7 units were completely outgunned. Later on during the conflict the Pilot ranks were probably thinned as UN spacy faced the same pilot shortage as Nazi germany or Japan did in 1943 to the end of the war. Training times were shortened and as a result poorer pilots were fielded, which exacerbated their deficiency vis-a-vis the mindcontrolled Vartua pilot.

Edited May 22, 2005 by Noyhauser

[ewilen]

There are some good mecha sequences in M7. The ones that stand out in my mind (I may be forgetting others) are the one(s) where Millia intervenes in a battle using her vintage VF-1J, and the much later episodes with the attack on the Varauta base. If you really don't think you'll like the series, you could just download those episodes.

Check the synopses over at mahq.net to see which ones they are.

[jenius]

However when confronted by the Vartua, who used completely different tactics, possessed superior technology, had previous battle experience with UN-spacy, and conducted massive fleet battles, the Mac 7 units were completely outgunned

Oh man, are you trying to defend M7s use of recycled exploding VF-11 animation? M7 redefined "cannonfodder" and while you can come up with theories why the pilots fly straight out and explode it's just a theory, the show never addresses anything. Besides, your theory is a little lacking. While these were colony ship pilots you would have to imagine VF training is superbly rigorous and all should be capable of doing more than fly straight out and explode. At the very least they should be good enough to warrant new animations of how they fly straight out and die. The mech action in Mac7 is terrible.

Point of confustion here, probably because I have a misunderstanding of Mac7 somewhere, but weren't the Varuata just brainwashed Zents from another colonization mission? Wouldn't their mechs be technologically inferior to the VF-11 since their colonization mission went out several years prior?

[Agent ONE]

There is no reason to watch Macross7, unless you are training to become a totaly worthless pussy... If that is the case, then M7 is the SHOW FOR YOU.

[zeo-mare]

There is no reason to watch Macross7, unless you are training to become a totaly worthless pussy... If that is the case, then M7 is the SHOW FOR YOU.

[JB0]

Also note that if you take a perverse joy out of annoying Agent ONE then watching Mac7 becomes mandatory.

Personally, I think the show has a lot of interesting elements, but few are explored to any signifigant degree.

And it all collapses in on itself after Operation Stargazer returns home, and not even the Max & Millia VF-22s can save it, partially because they get about 5 seconds of very low-quality screen time.

On the other hand, DURING Operation Stargazer we get to see Max kicking roughly 37 diffrent kinds of butt in his VF-22.

...

Which really makes me question what the REST of the fleet is there for.

[Noyhauser]

Oh man, are you trying to defend M7s use of recycled exploding VF-11 animation?

No, If I did that I'd point out that #1 Kawamori didn't intend to Macross 7 to focus on fight scenes but on the storyline, and he blew the bank on Macross Plus, which was released at the same time. Secondly M7 was intended as a serialised story, that was to be watched week after week... which I did in 1995 in Japan. At the time when I watched it, I didn't notice the recycled footage that much, (although granted I picked the story up around episode 27). You on the other hand probably watched each episode back to back, where its blatantly obvious where recycled footage is used. I've seen far worse and far better than Mac-7. Although some people would say that they would have rather not seen Kawamori make the series, I think most of us are thankful that he did, even if it wasn't the perfect series that can please everybody.

M7 redefined "cannonfodder" and while you can come up with theories why the pilots fly straight out and explode it's just a theory, the show never addresses anything.

Umm we make inferences all the time given what we know of the show and what we can see. In the opening scenes of Macross Plus we can clearly see Isamu having problems with his wingmen being inexperienced (guys screaming when their pod is jammed for help, getting easily snuck up opon by other fighters), and that was a military fleet, so I'm sure its not a stretch to assume most of the Mac-7 fleet's members were even more in experienced.

Besides, your theory is a little lacking.  While these were colony ship pilots you would have to imagine VF training is superbly rigorous and all should be capable of doing more than fly straight out and explode.

Are you sure about that? Training costs time and resources which is expensive and hard to do, and is inevitably not the same as real combat training. Also with restricted time you would likely train for certain missions types, and attacking fleets of technologically advanced fighters was probably not on their training courses... in comparison to the Vartua who had likely implanted doctrine into their pilots that was specifically aimed at UN Spacy tactics.

Point of confustion here, probably because I have a misunderstanding of Mac7 somewhere, but weren't the Varuata just brainwashed Zents from another colonization mission?  Wouldn't their mechs be technologically inferior to the VF-11 since their colonization mission went out several years prior?

Actually I think its clear that the protodevlin used their advanced knowledge to upgrade the VF-14 and other fighters so that they were clearly more advanced than their UN Spacy contemporaries. Furthermore I think many of the fighters were of the same vintage as the VF-11 anyways.

Finally Jeinus, don't adress me as I'm of your other M-7 bashing partners. Usually I don't post in these threads or indulge people like you, but I'll bite just this once. I didn't come in here to be denigrated like I'm some idiot, and neither did I adress you in this fashion. I posted because I wanted to give my explaination of what we see on screen, not to be talked down to like Im some child.

Personally I would like to discuss Mac 7 in a clear intelligent manner, like we do in the modern aircraft thread, but after about five posts it usually disintigrates to this level. Its a shame that we can't. At this point I hope the thread does get locked, just like all the others.

Edited May 22, 2005 by Noyhauser

[Ido]

Which really makes me question what the REST of the fleet is there for

More likely do be randomly destroyed, there are a lot of scenes where emerald/diamond force avoid enemy fire that regularly destroy some vf-11, at this point they could grab some vf-11 and use it to shield themself.

[Wes]

I can some up almost all the fights like this: valks come in, valks transform in Batroid, they shoot a little, then blow up. Then Basara comes around and sings a song.

Yep, that's about it. The Battle 7 is kind of amusing, but that's about it.

[promethuem5]

There is no reason to watch Macross7, unless you are training to become a totaly worthless pussy... If that is the case, then M7 is the SHOW FOR YOU.

What took you so long A1? I'm not impressed....

[jenius]

Finally Jeinus, don't adress me as I'm of your other M-7 bashing partners. Usually I don't post in these threads or indulge people like you, but I'll bite just this once. I didn't come in here to be denigrated like I'm some idiot, and neither did I adress you in this fashion. I posted because I wanted to give my explaination of what we see on screen, not to be talked down to like Im some child.

I think you read my original post as if I meant it to have some sort of stink in the tone. I wasn't trying to insult you or put you down. My point was just that M7's mech action sucked and it's a tough sell to clear that away by saying the pilots musta just sucked. I then invited the clarification you provided on why the Varuta would have better mechs than the M7 group, no stink or sarcasm there. I didn't mean to talk down to you, I simply meant to strongly disagree.

[Agent ONE]

There is no reason to watch Macross7, unless you are training to become a totaly worthless pussy... If that is the case, then M7 is the SHOW FOR YOU.

What took you so long A1? I'm not impressed....

Had a busy weekend. Sorry I will do better the next time I have the opportunity to sh!t on M7.

[JB0]

There is no reason to watch Macross7, unless you are training to become a totaly worthless pussy... If that is the case, then M7 is the SHOW FOR YOU.

What took you so long A1? I'm not impressed....

Had a busy weekend. Sorry I will do better the next time I have the opportunity to sh!t on M7.

So you aren't ill or anything?

Good.

[Jin_Kune_Do]

Well lets think about this. Most pilots in Macross 7 fleet were probably new pilots who were likely had little combat experience. I assume your comment about "how a VF-11 is supposed to be handled" is reference to Isamu dyson, which is an unfair comparison. Dyson was an ace as part of a military fleet that saw constant duty, rather than the long range colonization fleet which likely was a backwater for pilots (or whatever M-7's mission was... it had civillians). Him, Millia, Gamlin, are high quality pilots that put into the cockpit of any fighter will be able to inflict major damage. However what experience the vast majority of pilots in the M-7 fleet did have probably was against guerilla Anti-UN Spacy forces... not large scale fleet action (that is if they even had any experience at all). On top of that, what largescale fleet training they did have likely was calibrated against attacking zentredi, a basically static enemy that could have massive numbers, but at comparatively low technology, thousands of VF-11s were sufficient to stop an attack. I would argue the VF-11 essentially was VF-1 with upgraded avionics, aerodynamics and weapons, but nothing fundamentally different about its basic design philosophy.

However when confronted by the Vartua, who used completely different tactics, possessed superior technology, had previous battle experience with UN-spacy, and conducted massive fleet battles, the Mac 7 units were completely outgunned. Later on during the conflict the Pilot ranks were probably thinned as UN spacy faced the same pilot shortage as Nazi germany or Japan did in 1943 to the end of the war. Training times were shortened and as a result poorer pilots were fielded, which exacerbated their deficiency vis-a-vis the mindcontrolled Vartua pilot.

Well thinking about it now, yeah you are probably right. Something made me realiase something. I think one of the reason why the pilots in Macross SDF-1 seris where so much better...is that a bigger percentage of them had previous combat experiences during the UN/Anti goverment war.

Then again, alot of the combat scenes and the way the VF-11´s where hit was just...u know lame, mindless kinda gave me the feeling of being frustrated, M7 is the only series that has left me feeling so mad displeased of the pilots actions.

On the flip side a big part of the mecha action was really just recycled over and over. Maybe that is why one is left of a bad taste and since the budget wasnt like in Macross Plus, im guessing that is the reason why the action scenes werent that varid, since most of it was made for the first confrontations with the Varuta forces. So its only natural that the pilots who meet the Varuta first where caught of guard and had to learn the enemy tactics.

Just my two cents.

- Jin

[FlyingPika]

There is no reason to watch Macross7, unless you are training to become a totaly worthless pussy... If that is the case, then M7 is the SHOW FOR YOU.

What took you so long A1? I'm not impressed....

...i see wot u mean about A1 now.

Well i get the feeling from ur guys posts that im just gonna get frustrated then force myself to painfully watch all 52 episodes. I pass for now. Maybe someday i will. Dling takes foreva fro me coz i can only dial up between 7pm and 7am. ha! Its actually cheaper for me to buy dvds then to dl bB)) !!!

I see there's a Macross 7 Dynamite OVA, only 4 episodes, does that also come with A1's high stamp of approval?

[Zentrandude]

There is no reason to watch Macross7, unless you are training to become a totaly worthless pussy... If that is the case, then M7 is the SHOW FOR YOU.

What took you so long A1? I'm not impressed....

Had a busy weekend. Sorry I will do better the next time I have the opportunity to sh!t on M7.

walk by a mirror again?

[Nightbat]

walk by a mirror doorknob again?

fixed