Which CONSOLE!?

[sabretooth]

teeheehee

[Gunbuster]

I'm guesing we will have another format wars ;;

Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc. announced they will release its movies in Blu-ray format, in additional to HD-DVD format. Paramount Pictures Corp. had also made similar decision earlier this month.

[mikeszekely]

Microsoft hints at iindie support.

Say what you will about the rest of their divisions, the Xbox division seems to be more in touch with gamers today than Sony. Everytime someone gets homebrew running on the PSP, Sony freaks out and released a new firmware update. Meanwhile, the Xbox team is encouraging it.

[Hikuro]

I talked to the people I know at Gamestop, actually it was over 2 weeks ago that I finally got the word of it all.

I was pretty dissapointed by the fact that Microsoft is having two versions of the 360, it reminded me very much of selling cars. You got your basic of the basics, no AC, Manual transmission, no CD player, and no Power windows. Then you got your sports variation, the high roller, Six Disc, Bose, bigger liter engine, Climate Control the works.

Here we see a basic version of the 360, wired controler, subscription to Xbox magazine, and the system....not even a freaking memory card.

Then you got the "standard" version for an extra 100 bucks, Wireless controler, 20Gig hardrive, Xboxlive Silver Membership, Enabled Xbox Live connection (if I remember right...) and all the connections for HDTV ready.

So I told Sean (the guy I talk too alot at GS) and told him to put me down for the big mother load and for a few extra stuff, like a battery charger, an extra Wireless controler etc.etc. He looked at me going "Wow, what games you got on order now?"

1) Elder Scrolls

2) Need for Speed

3) DOA4

4) Call of Duty

5) Perfect Dark Zero

I'm also thinking of putting it down for Quake IV, but I'm not sure, I haven't touched it since the original Quake so many years ago when i was in Elementary school I believe....wow I think the first FPS game I ever played was Wolfenstien.

Since the system is making a midnight release, I put in a day off on the 22nd, gonna try and switch hours with my old man on that day so I get off work at 6 instead of 5, get a brand new TV, hook it up at home, take a quick nap, go pick up my friend from his place, drive 35 miles BACK to Portland, grab the 360 and head back around 2 AM and we're gonna have a DOA/Perfect Dark Zero, and N4SpMW burn out, we don't plan on going to sleep till maybe 2 PM : / we are gonna be seriously zonked out from all the gaming.

I also got a magazine that had all this great info on the 360, I may try and get a faceplate for it, I thought the Carbon Fiber faceplate and this whicked Blue one I saw with White vynil on it looked sweet. Personally I'd want one of the E3 ones but no, that's too much.

My friend and I are gonna strive to get the 360 up and running online too so we can do some Halo 2 and get the new maps.

W00t! I'm so physced for November.

[myk]

I still don't think I'm missing out on much by getting the "retard" pack of the '360. All of the connectivity trinkets that come with the Platinum system don't matter to me as going on the Live network isn't on my list of priorities. I suppose that the HD included in the Platinum system would be my reason for buying that particular package as it does cost $100 by itself...

[JB0]

Microsoft hints at iindie support.

Say what you will about the rest of their divisions, the Xbox division seems to be more in touch with gamers today than Sony.  Everytime someone gets homebrew running on the PSP, Sony freaks out and released a new firmware update.  Meanwhile, the Xbox team is encouraging it.

334917[/snapback]

I've heard Sony's recently given up on closing exploits since the homebrews are the system's primary selling point.

Dunno if it's actually true. We'll know when 2.1 rolls around.

[Jolly Rogers]

Microsoft hints at iindie support.

Say what you will about the rest of their divisions, the Xbox division seems to be more in touch with gamers today than Sony.  Everytime someone gets homebrew running on the PSP, Sony freaks out and released a new firmware update.  Meanwhile, the Xbox team is encouraging it.

334917[/snapback]

Are we talking about the same company that locks any non-factory configured Xbox out of Xlive?

[Gaijin]

I'm guesing we will have another format wars ;;

Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc. announced they will release its movies in Blu-ray format, in additional to HD-DVD format. Paramount Pictures Corp. had also made similar decision earlier this month.

334854[/snapback]

Actually, insiders say the opposite is true...that they are moving to one format after weighing everything. Once Universal makes their announcement all the major Hollywood players will be backing BD. The HD DVD titles alsothing is to "save face" but many believe that they are back peddling and will release only a few if any titles at all. Warner was HD DVD's biggest supporter (in form of titles to be released) and they dropped them prior to the announcement of Blu Ray.

Toshiba President is doing damage control mentioning even theough the hollywood studios are backing Blu Ray...they have Microsoft and Intel (which announced Blu Ray support a few days ago).

Umm..big companies yes...but neither will provide hardware or content anyways. If Toshiba's HD DVD player launches in Feb-March...there will be few if any discs to play on it.

Here's an excellent story on the "war" thus far:

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/con..._9074_tc024.htm

Edited October 8, 2005 by Gaijin

[mikeszekely]

I've heard Sony's recently given up on closing exploits since the homebrews are the system's primary selling point.

Dunno if it's actually true. We'll know when 2.1 rolls around.

Sony already cranked out 2.01. The only change was to lock out the buffer overlow exploit that's been used to create a pong game for 2.0, and to allow for downgrading the firmware to 1.5.

Are we talking about the same company that locks any non-factory configured Xbox out of Xlive?

Any company would want to protect themselves against piracy, and let's be honest. Most of the "non-factory configured" Xboxes out there are configured to run pirated ISO images off the non-factory installed hard drives, not for homebrew.

Genuine homebrew software could be written with a PC after indie programmers get a chance to examine the 360, and then distributed over Xbox Live, downloaded, and played on factory-configured hardware.

And even still...

Q: Do you have office pools running on how long it will take hackers to mod the 360?

JA: No, we don't. We don't have office pools like that. We do know that they're already being very ambitious with it and it's flattering in a way. There will be the hobbyists that want to rip it apart. There'll still be the pirates that want to rip it off. We can't avoid that. The philosophy that we applied on 360 is, "It's going to happen."

With Xbox 1, we were not in denial, although we said, "Let's build a system and we can stop it." With 360, we said, "Let's assume we can't stop it. How are we going to manage it?" Because it is going to happen. They are going to attack. They are going to have some form of success. What can we do in the Live business and the Live community? What can we do with the media? What can we do at retail? What can we do with connectivity to try to put a really big speed bump in place and, most importantly, protect the gamers from the hackers making it a crappy experience with them? Because that's my biggest nightmare.

If we lose 5 percent of our revenue, that's bad. But if Xbox Live gets distorted and destroyed because of three or four bad people that just want to have a grudge against Microsoft or somebody that they're playing against; that just want to ruin and wreak havoc on Live, that would really suck. That would really suck. So, that's where I'm more sensitive to them than the money.

[MGREXX]

Well Well Well........It looks like Ghost Recon got delayed:

Gamespot article

The reason? and I quote:

"Ubisoft wants extra time to optimize the application of Xbox 360 technology."

Let me translate:

Ubisoft realizes that the game looks only a little better than current generation games and is scared by the PS3 killer graphics that are coming (like MGS4), so they are delaying it and will try to release a game that is truly a next generation title and not another Xbox1.5 game, of which all of the 360 launch titles appear to be.

I tell you, the PS3 is the way to go baby!!!!!!!

[Loner]

See what I mean?

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Well Well Well........It looks like Ghost Recon got delayed:

Gamespot article

The reason?  and I quote:

"Ubisoft wants extra time to optimize the application of Xbox 360 technology."

Let me translate:

Ubisoft realizes that the game looks only a little better than current generation games and is scared by the PS3 killer graphics that are coming (like MGS4), so they are delaying it and will try to release a game that is truly a next generation title and not another Xbox1.5 game, of which all of the 360 launch titles appear to be.  

I tell you, the PS3 is the way to go baby!!!!!!!

335077[/snapback]

MGS4 and ghost recon are too entirely different genres. And last I heard, MGS4 was not a PS3 launch title. Most of the 360 games I have seen look phenomenal and at least they showed it running on the actual darn console, for all we know sony might just be showing us SGI enhanced trailers, they were guilty of this before.

World Air force looks better than most of the recent high end flight sims on the PC. And don't even compare Ace combat since AC is a survey arcade sim, WAF is for the diehards.

[JB0]

I still don't think I'm missing out on much by getting the "retard" pack of the '360.  All of the connectivity trinkets that come with the Platinum system don't matter to me as going on the Live network isn't on my list of priorities.  I suppose that the HD included in the Platinum system would be my reason for buying that particular package as it does cost $100 by itself...

Don't forget that without a hard drive, you need a memory card(no save media is included with the ripoff package).

That's 40$ added onto the price right there. So it's really only a 60$ diffrence between the packages.

And IMO, they should at LEAST pack in an s-video cable. Composite ceased to be adequate with the current generation.

[Black Valkyrie]

Some PS news :

1

2

3

[Gaijin]

And IMO, they should at LEAST pack in an s-video cable. Composite ceased to be adequate with the current generation.

335156[/snapback]

I'd go as far to say composite was only barely ok for the 32 bit era.

[JB0]

And IMO, they should at LEAST pack in an s-video cable. Composite ceased to be adequate with the current generation.

335156[/snapback]

I'd go as far to say composite was only barely ok for the 32 bit era.

335181[/snapback]

I can't speak for the Saturn, but for the most part the PS1 looks better in composite than s-video.

Most games are too reliant on dithering and checkerboard transparency to look very good when you remove the blur.

...

I should stick my SNES on my 'Cube's s-vid cables again and do some more comparison. I'm not really sure which way I'd vote on it right now.

Set it's currently hooked to doesn't go past composite and is in need of a tune-up, so it's a moot point.

[Gaijin]

And IMO, they should at LEAST pack in an s-video cable. Composite ceased to be adequate with the current generation.

335156[/snapback]

I'd go as far to say composite was only barely ok for the 32 bit era.

335181[/snapback]

I can't speak for the Saturn, but for the most part the PS1 looks better in composite than s-video.

Most games are too reliant on dithering and checkerboard transparency to look very good when you remove the blur.

...

I should stick my SNES on my 'Cube's s-vid cables again and do some more comparison. I'm not really sure which way I'd vote on it right now.

Set it's currently hooked to doesn't go past composite and is in need of a tune-up, so it's a moot point.

335194[/snapback]

I might be biased...I've had large screens so the blurry composite (especially text) was irritating to me. My old SNES looked a tad sharper as well with Svid...as did my Jag and modded Neo. Saturn looked great with S vid and my PS1 did as well...maybe you had yor TV's sharpness up too much?

The only time composite ever looked better to me was when playing the Macross Plus Movie edition DVD on a small 20" TV once....without component or s-video the crap transfer was almost unnoticeable. Almost.

[Apollo Leader]

I think this pic below goes perfectly with these video game threads right now (especially thanks to MGREXX).

[Apollo Leader]

Don't forget that without a hard drive, you need a memory card(no save media is included with the ripoff package).

That's 40$ added onto the price right there. So it's really only a 60$ diffrence between the packages.

Also you need the hard drive to be able play original Xbox games. Without the hard drive, you are up a creek.

[JB0]

I might be biased...I've had large screens so the blurry composite (especially text) was irritating to me.  My old SNES looked a tad sharper as well with Svid...as did my Jag and modded Neo.  Saturn looked great with S vid and my PS1 did as well...maybe you had yor TV's sharpness up too much?

32" direct-view CRT. With the scan velocity modulation disabled too, for extra clean image-ness.

And the sharpness isn't high enough that it's going FUBAR(why can't it be a simple focus control? Why must they tie an edge enhancement circuit to it?).

It's just that most of my PS games EXPECT the blur. Especially the 3D ones that are desperately trying to get around how badly the PS1 sucks at 3D.

They use checkerboard shading to fake translucency, dithered colors to fake a deeper color pallete, and such. Get the sharper display going and it becomes painfully obvious that they're "cheating."

Even some of my pretty sprite games, like SotN and Valk Profile, looked better in composite.

Only PS game I tested that I genuinely think looks better with s-vid is Mr. Driller.

I've noticed the blurry text, but shrug it off usually. It's the lesser evil, IMO.

I know the SNES is SHARPER with s-video. I'm just not sure I WANT it sharper.

Pr'ly do for the most part though, based on emulator usage.

Sad sidenote: My Genesis is running on RF.

I grabbed the connector to make a video cable, then realized I was out of AV ports.

...

I need another switch.

The only time composite ever looked better to me was when playing the Macross Plus Movie edition DVD on a small 20" TV once....without component or s-video the crap transfer was almost unnoticeable. Almost.

It's a damn shame what they did to that.

I really need to replace my VHS tape, but I just can't justify paying the price the DVD goes for given the lack of quality.

Edited October 9, 2005 by JB0

[Gaijin]

I might be biased...I've had large screens so the blurry composite (especially text) was irritating to me.  My old SNES looked a tad sharper as well with Svid...as did my Jag and modded Neo.  Saturn looked great with S vid and my PS1 did as well...maybe you had yor TV's sharpness up too much?

32" direct-view CRT. With the scan velocity modulation disabled too, for extra clean image-ness.

And the sharpness isn't high enough that it's going FUBAR(why can't it be a simple focus control? Why must they tie an edge enhancement circuit to it?).

It's just that most of my PS games EXPECT the blur. Especially the 3D ones that are desperately trying to get around how badly the PS1 sucks at 3D.

They use checkerboard shading to fake translucency, dithered colors to fake a deeper color pallete, and such. Get the sharper display going and it becomes painfully obvious that they're "cheating."

Even some of my pretty sprite games, like SotN and Valk Profile, looked better in composite.

Only PS game I tested that I genuinely think looks better with s-vid is Mr. Driller.

I've noticed the blurry text, but shrug it off usually. It's the lesser evil, IMO.

Sad sidenote: My Genesis is running on RF.

I grabbed the connector to make a video cable, then realized I was out of AV ports.

...

I need another switch.

The only time composite ever looked better to me was when playing the Macross Plus Movie edition DVD on a small 20" TV once....without component or s-video the crap transfer was almost unnoticeable. Almost.

It's a damn shame what they did to that.

I really need to replace my VHS tape, but I just can't justify paying the price the DVD goes for given the lack of quality.

335213[/snapback]

OK, I get what you mean about the PS1 now...Most of my Saturn games were the 2D fighters and stuff so it wasn't as noticable but even then it didn't bother me as much...as for the PS1, I guess I got used to seeing textures that way on the 32 bit systems and missed the sharpness too, because I even had a modded Genesis for S Vid (very similar to the Neo Geo Mod). I remember the Genesis having very crappy RF quality, much worse than the SNES.

Off the subject...but I miss my old PS1 with the regular S Video and RCA ports....I remember when buying it thinking...hey!! I don't have to buy a Sony brand cable. That's another reason I'm excited over the HDMI output for PS3...I already have the cables.

Yes, the Macross Plus Movie DVD actually looks semi decent through composite...sad.

[mikeszekely]

Well Well Well........It looks like Ghost Recon got delayed:

Gamespot article

The reason?  and I quote:

"Ubisoft wants extra time to optimize the application of Xbox 360 technology."

Let me translate:

Ubisoft realizes that the game looks only a little better than current generation games and is scared by the PS3 killer graphics that are coming (like MGS4),

Ubisoft is scared of the PS3, which they will almost certainly develop for? That makes a ton of sense...

So Ubisoft wants more time to polish the game... you know, now that Ubisoft has the beta dev kits and can actually utilize the full power of the 360.

so they are delaying it and will try to release a game that is truly a next generation title and not another Xbox1.5 game, of which all of the 360 launch titles appear to be.  

I take issue with your "translation" here too. You're suggesting that Ubisoft is going to take the time to make Ghost Recon look more akin to the Metal Gear Solid 4 trailer (trailer as in pre-rendered movie... again). But, in your warped little mind, such a thing would never actually be possible... so how can you be suggesting it?

BTW, I'd suggest taking a look at some of the more recent coverage of Perfect Dark Zero. It most definately does look like a next-gen title now, and unlike all your precious pre-renders, you can see real gameply with PDZ. Of course, reading about an Xbox 360 game is probably against the Sony fanboy religion.

[Gaijin]

Well Well Well........It looks like Ghost Recon got delayed:

Gamespot article

The reason?  and I quote:

"Ubisoft wants extra time to optimize the application of Xbox 360 technology."

Let me translate:

Ubisoft realizes that the game looks only a little better than current generation games and is scared by the PS3 killer graphics that are coming (like MGS4),

Ubisoft is scared of the PS3, which they will almost certainly develop for? That makes a ton of sense...

So Ubisoft wants more time to polish the game... you know, now that Ubisoft has the beta dev kits and can actually utilize the full power of the 360.

so they are delaying it and will try to release a game that is truly a next generation title and not another Xbox1.5 game, of which all of the 360 launch titles appear to be.  

I take issue with your "translation" here too. You're suggesting that Ubisoft is going to take the time to make Ghost Recon look more akin to the Metal Gear Solid 4 trailer (trailer as in pre-rendered movie... again). But, in your warped little mind, such a thing would never actually be possible... so how can you be suggesting it?

BTW, I'd suggest taking a look at some of the more recent coverage of Perfect Dark Zero. It most definately does look like a next-gen title now, and unlike all your precious pre-renders, you can see real gameply with PDZ. Of course, reading about an Xbox 360 game is probably against the Sony fanboy religion.

335236[/snapback]

Why bother replying to fanboy bait? You're giving him excuses to continue!! Stop man, for the love of...

[JB0]

OK, I get what you mean about the PS1 now...Most of my Saturn games were the 2D fighters and stuff so it wasn't as noticable but even then it didn't bother me as much...as for the PS1, I guess I got used to seeing textures that way on the 32 bit systems and missed the sharpness too, because I even had a modded Genesis for S Vid (very similar to the Neo Geo Mod).

Nice to have an s-vid'able Genny.

I've not looked into doing it to mine. May consider it some time in the future.

I remember the Genesis having very crappy RF quality, much worse than the SNES. 

I've gotten a okay signal out of my Genny. Not great, but tolerable.

My Gen2 sucked, though. Especially with the SCD online.

Off the subject...but I miss my old PS1 with the regular S Video and RCA ports....I remember when buying it thinking...hey!! I don't have to buy a Sony brand cable.  That's another reason I'm excited over the HDMI output for PS3...I already have the cables.

Standard connectors == love.

Failing true RCAs and s-vid's miniDIN4, gimme a normal DSub or DIN to work with.

[mikeszekely]

Why bother replying to fanboy bait? You're giving him excuses to continue!! Stop man, for the love of...

laugh.gif

It's a vicious cycle. He likes saying something retarded, I like pointing out to him how retarded he is (I think, deep down, he likes it too), and I like seeing him flounder for some argument to prove that he's not totally retarded. Especially when he cites articles that have little to do with the topic at hand and do absolutely nothing to support his sick little beliefs.

Ironically, for all the dirt he has me digging up on Sony, I fully intend to buy a PS3 at some point. Just, depending on price and launch titles, probably not next year.

[mikeszekely]

Standard connectors == love.

I'll gladly take the proprietary connectors now that they're putting component connectors in the box.

[Gaijin]

double post

Edited October 9, 2005 by Gaijin

[Gaijin]

You're suggesting that Ubisoft is going to take the time to make Ghost Recon look more akin to the Metal Gear Solid 4 trailer (trailer as in pre-rendered movie... again). 

Just FYI....the MGS4 trailer was realtime with the in game engine...they even showed a real time demo with Kojima controlling the camera angles and zooming around at TGS. Unless you're thinking pre rendered as being not something you control...in which case all games that use in game engines for cut scenes to you would be defined as pre rendered. To most of the industry pre-rendered stuff is done off the normal hardware...FFX cinemas, original Resident Evil backgrounds, etc.

E3 trailers of PS3 games might be suspect, but after seeing MGS4 for PS3, NBA Live 06 for 360, Gears of War 360, Fight Night 3 both, Resident Evil 5 Both, Devil May Cry 4 models with PS3 hardware....how are people on both "sides" still doubting this stuff? 360 is ready to go in a few weeks...and PS3 is around the corner...do people want these to be pre rendered bull or something? It just screams to me of what people are accusing each other of...Console superiority bragging rights or whatever you kids call it.

The MS faithful point to PS2 Sony's Emotion Engine and "Toy Story" graphics promise...while they forget Gates made the promise of "Toy Story 2" level of graphics from the Xbox etc. All companies make huge promises. The difference this time around...at least in the terms of graphics...both seem to be pretty right on the money. Any of those titles I mentioned earlier is a step beyond today's consoles and most PC's (remember, most people's PC's don't have the latest video cards and they're stoked playing Free Cell on their $2500 PC ).

Edited October 9, 2005 by Gaijin

[sabretooth]

still getting a nintendo first

[JB0]

Standard connectors == love.

I'll gladly take the proprietary connectors now that they're putting component connectors in the box.

335246[/snapback]

I've got a half-dozen RCA cables lying around anyways.

You know, unless you'd like to imply that my 2-decade corroded wires from the Atari era are somehow inferior to a modern cable with adequate shielding.

...

Reminds me... my AV switch came with a "component video" cable. That was so absurdly thin I can't believe they rated it for ANY video. My composite wires have better shielding. Hell, the 2-daeade 1st-era wires are better shielded.

E3 trailers of PS3 games might be suspect...

Not suspect. Confirmed fakes.

Nvidia came out and SAID they weren't running on the PS3 chip, the PS3 chip wasn't finalized, no PS3 silicon had been made, and it was actually a pair of their then-upcoming PC boards running in SLI mode.

[Gaijin]

Not suspect. Confirmed fakes.

Nvidia came out and SAID they weren't running on the PS3 chip, the PS3 chip wasn't finalized, no PS3 silicon had been made, and it was actually a pair of their then-upcoming PC boards running in SLI mode.

335287[/snapback]

Sorry...figure of speech... though no more false than the playable 360's on E3 being G5's and Xenon development units.....point being is both make claims and this time around both appear (so far) to be delivering what they showed before.

Edited October 9, 2005 by Gaijin

[Radd]

Just FYI....the MGS4 trailer was realtime with the in game engine...they even showed a real time demo with Kojima controlling the camera angles and zooming around at TGS.

335285[/snapback]

Let's not forget way back before the PS2 launch, the Final Fantasy VIII demo? It was running on some SGI machines, yet was hooked up to a PS2 controller so the camera could be controlled in real time. Sony claimed it was running on actual PS2 hardware.

[TheLoneWolf]

Just FYI....the MGS4 trailer was realtime with the in game engine...they even showed a real time demo with Kojima controlling the camera angles and zooming around at TGS.

335285[/snapback]

Let's not forget way back before the PS2 launch, the Final Fantasy VIII demo? It was running on some SGI machines, yet was hooked up to a PS2 controller so the camera could be controlled in real time. Sony claimed it was running on actual PS2 hardware.

335313[/snapback]

Silly me, I remember seeing that FFVIII demo years ago and thinking it was running on PS2 hardware. I think I may have a copy of that demo somewhere, gonna have to watch it again now

[mikeszekely]

You're suggesting that Ubisoft is going to take the time to make Ghost Recon look more akin to the Metal Gear Solid 4 trailer (trailer as in pre-rendered movie... again). 

Just FYI....the MGS4 trailer was realtime with the in game engine...they even showed a real time demo with Kojima controlling the camera angles and zooming around at TGS. Unless you're thinking pre rendered as being not something you control...in which case all games that use in game engines for cut scenes to you would be defined as pre rendered. To most of the industry pre-rendered stuff is done off the normal hardware...FFX cinemas, original Resident Evil backgrounds, etc.

E3 trailers of PS3 games might be suspect, but after seeing MGS4 for PS3, NBA Live 06 for 360, Gears of War 360, Fight Night 3 both, Resident Evil 5 Both, Devil May Cry 4 models with PS3 hardware....how are people on both "sides" still doubting this stuff? 360 is ready to go in a few weeks...and PS3 is around the corner...do people want these to be pre rendered bull or something? It just screams to me of what people are accusing each other of...Console superiority bragging rights or whatever you kids call it.

The MS faithful point to PS2 Sony's Emotion Engine and "Toy Story" graphics promise...while they forget Gates made the promise of "Toy Story 2" level of graphics from the Xbox etc. All companies make huge promises. The difference this time around...at least in the terms of graphics...both seem to be pretty right on the money. Any of those titles I mentioned earlier is a step beyond today's consoles and most PC's (remember, most people's PC's don't have the latest video cards and they're stoked playing Free Cell on their $2500 PC ).

335285[/snapback]

Sorry...figure of speech... though no more false than the playable 360's on E3 being G5's and Xenon development units.....point being is both make claims and this time around both appear (so far) to be delivering what they showed before.

Let's not forget way back before the PS2 launch, the Final Fantasy VIII demo? It was running on some SGI machines, yet was hooked up to a PS2 controller so the camera could be controlled in real time. Sony claimed it was running on actual PS2 hardware.

Pre-rendered, AFAIK, means that it was rendered out of engine, and inserted as a cutscene. Hence, it cuts from the game to the cutscene. An in-engine cutscene is simply a point where the game takes control from the players, and uses a fixed "camera." No cut is necessary.

Using a controller to change the viewing angle doesn't make it any less prerendered. They are, afterall, rendered in 3D. Until Sony shows actual gameplay running off at least the beta dev kits, then it's all hype to be taken with a grain of salt. That doesn't mean that I want it to be bullshit. I'm just not setting myself up for a letdown like the PS2 was.

The Xbox 360 is a different and almost opposite matter. Sony was showing amazing movies that weren't running on the PS3, and everyone starts talking about how amazing the PS3 will be. Microsoft was showing actual games that weren't running on the 360, and they looked rather unimpressive. A lot of people were quick to write off the the 360 for that. But now that the beta dev kits are out, the games are looking a lot better. And since we are seeing actual gameplay, we have a reasonable idea of what to expect.

[Gunbuster]

LOL!

At the rate of playing all those movies at e3, Sony should have just played a FF7 AC trailer on a regular DVD player and claim it to be the PS3.

MS however had games playable!!

About the MGS 4 trailer, yes that is real time and its what you can expect in game from their engine. I would not put Konami on the same boat as Sony's Propaganda crap.

Without the MGS 4 trailer, I don't see anything that is mind blowing on the PS3