Which CONSOLE!?

[Black Valkyrie]

Just give Nintendo a chance, lets see what happens.

Full Japanese PlayStation 3 lineup revealed

Edited September 16, 2005 by Black Valkyrie

[Fort Max]

I really like the Revolutions controller and the ideas that have gone into it, I particulary look forward to a Zelda game that could incorparate the sword fighting, fishing and Miyamoto only knows what else.

I am however relieved to hear that the stick add on will come with the machine and that the magic wand will not be needed for evey game.

[JB0]

Gradius to fly again on PS3  

329070[/snapback]

Oooohhh...

Pity RType Final 2 was just irem's April Fool's joke... Always been more of an RType person myself.

I've used paddles, trackballs, steering wheels, flight sticks of all kinds, including dual handed sticks and flightsticks with seperate thrust controls.

I've used them all too... and always wound up going back to conventional controllers. 20+ years of gaming, and that's just what I'm used to.

I mix it up a fair bit.

One of my biggest gripes with the modern industry is the lack of variety among controllers. Everything's a DualShock knockoff, and that's just a half-assed upgrade to the SNES pad anyways.

I'd give the N64 more credit if the 2 "wings" were mirrors of each other. As it is, it's just a silly design.

Honestly, my favorite controller, design-wise, is the much-loathed Atari 5200 stick.

I really think the designers of that generation were on the right track, although they never perfected it.

INTV, ColecoVision, and 5200 all approach the same concept from diffrent angles. IMO, Coleco had it totally wrong. Mattel and Atari were both on the right path, but neither ever reached design maturity, though I think the 5200 stick is better constructed than the INTV pad.

If Atari had capped their fire buttons' silicon inlays with hard plastic buttons like a modern controller, and put a centering mechanism on the stick, it'd be light-years ahead of where it ended up.

But like everything, the 5200 stick is not well-suited to all games, even given my suggested alterations.

The Jack-of-all-trades approach annoys me. I LIKED the overabundance of squirrely 3rd-party controllers in the NES era, as even if a lot of them were totally retarded there were some REALLY GOOD ones out there too.

That's not to say that the controller is a wholly bad idea.  Like I said, a sequel to Duck Hunt would be great with that thing.  But as the primary controller for all types of games?  I'm not so sure about that.  Apparently, neither is Nintendo.

We're producing a classic-style expansion controller, based on traditional designs like the Gamecube controller. It's like a shell with a hole in the top into which you slot the freehand-style controller, and then you can play third-party ported games, and retro Nintendo games you've downloaded.

But that's just fine. That's just what I wanted to hear. It winds up being like the DS... innovative controls for innovative type games (Feel the Magic), conventional controls for more conventional type games (Castlevania).

It also makes a lot of sense given the current marketing strategy is heavily focused on their back catalog. Hell, their base controller has an NES pad built-in.

[Ladic]

http://revolutionnoob.ytmnd.com/

[Radd]

I've used them all too... and always wound up going back to conventional controllers.  20+ years of gaming, and that's just what I'm used to.

Not me. I prefere the keyboard/mouse combo when playing PC specific games. I only bust out a gamepad when playing an emulated game that was designed around a pad.

I imagine it will be the same way with the Revolution, games specific to that system and its new controller will work wonderfully with it. Meanwhile, for ports of 360 and PS3 games you just toss in a Gamecube controller, or one of the traditional controller attachments mentioned, and you're good.

[JB0]

I've used them all too... and always wound up going back to conventional controllers.  20+ years of gaming, and that's just what I'm used to.

Not me. I prefere the keyboard/mouse combo when playing PC specific games. I only bust out a gamepad when playing an emulated game that was designed around a pad.

I use a keyboard and trackball for PC games.

Partially because I've got limited funds, and really can't afford to keep throwing cash at every potential keyboard replacement.

The keyboad is a lousy text input device. It's an even worse gaming device.

Were I designing a PC gaming controller from scratch, I'd probably wind up with the bastard child of a Microsoft Strategy Commander and a Nostromo Speedpad.

I imagine it will be the same way with the Revolution, games specific to that system and its new controller will work wonderfully with it. Meanwhile, for ports of 360 and PS3 games you just toss in a Gamecube controller, or one of the traditional controller attachments mentioned, and you're good.

*nods*

Depending on the game, you could also use the motion tracker as an analog stick replacement. It has the potential to work really well. Or really really poorly in a shoddy port attempt.

[Gaijin]

While certainly innovative and different, it's going to be hard to get people to change their ways. This will be a very interesting next gen indeed. PS3 and 360 duke it out in the ring and Rev offers a very unique twist on gaming as a whole.

Though I'm afraid, I see people complaining about how they somehow got carpal tunnel playing Super Mario Revolution in the near future.

Edited September 17, 2005 by Gaijin

[Jolly Rogers]

The potential is there, but it really comes down to how developers will emphasize on ergonomics.

Take the Mario game for example. Back in the old days all it takes is a simple button press to make Mario jump. Now you're supposed to flick your wrist.

Imagine doing that for a few hours straight while having to keep your controller's sensor pointed at the TV. No chance of slumping in your chair in a very comfortable position or moving yourself around.

I see carpal tunnel syndrom and sore joints written all over the controller after seeing that demo video. Most games involve repetitive type of input no matter how varied developer try to make it with combos and what not. You are still limited to a set of commands.

It'll be funny when people start throwing the controllers all over the place by accident and break their windows and other fragile home fixtures.

[JB0]

The potential is there, but it really comes down to how developers will emphasize on ergonomics.

Take the Mario game for example.  Back in the old days all it takes is a simple button press to make Mario jump.  Now you're supposed to flick your wrist.

Except we don't have a Mario game announced. The promo video wasn't actual gameplay shots, it was just a conceptual thing.

Imagine doing that for a few hours straight while having to keep your controller's sensor pointed at the TV.  No chance of slumping in your chair in a very comfortable position or moving yourself around.

That's probably what the home button does. Resets the center position.

And it's RF, so it doesn't need to stay pointed at the set.

It'll be funny when people start throwing the controllers all over the place by accident and break their windows and other fragile home fixtures. 

Heh.

[Wes]

I think that moving the characters on games will probably be frustrating though. 

How so? Tilt controller, tilt stick. Not that diffrent.

I think the hardest thing would be moving characters around in a 3d space. Imagine trying to play the next Prince of Persa game with this thing. But problems would come to where you would sit the controller down or have to do something else when you get distracted or just uncomfortable where you are. Will this mean death in some situations, or is there a dummy-proof solution around this?

Also, if you're sitting around some friends during multiplayer games, one jerk can shove into everyone and really screw you as compared to the past.

[yellowlightman]

I think going about debating the merits of the Revolution controller based on older games is the wrong way to look at it. It's not designed to play Prince of Persia or Mario, it's designed to play new types of games. Nintendo isn't doing this as a gimmicky controller for the same old games, they designed it to expand gaming and what we think of as games.

[JB0]

I think that moving the characters on games will probably be frustrating though. 

How so? Tilt controller, tilt stick. Not that diffrent.

I think the hardest thing would be moving characters around in a 3d space. Imagine trying to play the next Prince of Persa game with this thing.

I haven't played the modern PoP games, but an intuitive way to provide input in 6 axes seems a good thing for a 3D game.

But problems would come to where you would sit the controller down or have to do something else when you get distracted or just uncomfortable where you are.  Will this mean death in some situations, or is there a dummy-proof solution around this?

My bet? The big blue "home" button is for resetting the motion sensor's "center" point.

Also, if you're sitting around some friends during multiplayer games, one jerk can shove into everyone and really screw you as compared to the past.

*chuckles*

[mikeszekely]

I think going about debating the merits of the Revolution controller based on older games is the wrong way to look at it. It's not designed to play Prince of Persia or Mario, it's designed to play new types of games. Nintendo isn't doing this as a gimmicky controller for the same old games, they designed it to expand gaming and what we think of as games.

329200[/snapback]

The problem, though, is that trying to change the way games are played often leads to gimmicky games reguardless (Yoshi's Touch & Go), games that don't really take advantage of the new technology (Splinter Cell DS), or games that try to shoe-horn the new tech in with disastrous results (Tiger Woods DS).

As long as they do release an attachment that is like a real controller, I'm willing to give it a shot, though.

[JB0]

I think going about debating the merits of the Revolution controller based on older games is the wrong way to look at it. It's not designed to play Prince of Persia or Mario, it's designed to play new types of games. Nintendo isn't doing this as a gimmicky controller for the same old games, they designed it to expand gaming and what we think of as games.

329200[/snapback]

The problem, though, is that trying to change the way games are played often leads to gimmicky games reguardless (Yoshi's Touch & Go), games that don't really take advantage of the new technology (Splinter Cell DS), or games that try to shoe-horn the new tech in with disastrous results (Tiger Woods DS).

Or barbarous kludges like the NES gamepad and DualShock...

Or the much less shitty light gun.

[Black Valkyrie]

I was rethinking what I said this might be Nintendo`s last console if they fail, that`s why they added the NGC pad and download their retro games, remember the Virtual Boy ! all the fuss about taking the game to a new level of game play.

We're producing a classic-style expansion controller, based on traditional designs like the Gamecube controller. It's like a shell with a hole in the top into which you slot the freehand-style controller, and then you can play third-party ported games, and retro Nintendo games you've downloaded.

-Jim Merrick, Senior Director of Marketing for Nintendo Europe.-

http://www.planetgamecube.com/news.cfm?action=item&id=6516

I asked most of my friends and they hated it, all said its a TV/DVD remote.

Edited September 17, 2005 by Black Valkyrie

[Radd]

I think people are making another mistake when trying to imagine how the controller will work. People are thinking of third or first person games and moving around by moving the remote. I don't see that at all. I imagine more likely, as Nintendo did with the Metroid Prime 2 demo, is that you'll move with the traditional analogue, but look around with the remote in nearly every 3rd or first person game.

Of course, I'm not at all certain how the motion sensitivity would be used in a Smash Bros. style game. We'll see, though. Nintendo has a habit of making stuff like that work in nifty ways.

As for public opinion? Well every news article I've read about it has been very positive. Every game developer who's comments have been published have been very positive. Net chatter seems to be evenly split. Talking with friends I know offline, only one has expressed a hearty dislike of the controller, and he's known for making snap judgements based on vague first impressions. Everyone has has been practically glowing with excitement over it. I don't think it's going to be as difficult to sway public opinion as some fear, and if the PS3 launches at $400+, and the Revolution launches at around $200, both shortly after the 360, then that might help people get over their technophobia a little easier.

[Loner]

They need to port this to the N5. A light saber duel with Vader will be enough to buy the system.

[Black Valkyrie]

I know what you mean

[yellowlightman]

I was rethinking what I said this might be Nintendo`s last console if they fail, that`s why they added the NGC pad and download their retro games, remember the Virtual Boy ! all the fuss about taking the game to a new level of game play.   

329277[/snapback]

I don't think that's a possibility. Nintendo has a fairly devoted fanbase and manages to be quite profitable even with a smaller market share thanks to decent management. But I would say the Gamecube is the last of their consoles trying to compete for the mainstream segment Sony and MS are grappling over.

[JB0]

I was rethinking what I said this might be Nintendo`s last console if they fail, that`s why they added the NGC pad and download their retro games, remember the Virtual Boy ! all the fuss about taking the game to a new level of game play.   

329277[/snapback]

I don't think that's a possibility. Nintendo has a fairly devoted fanbase and manages to be quite profitable even with a smaller market share thanks to decent management.

Furthermore, the Rev won't fail. The classic gaming angle is going to move a lot of units as people don't realize the NES is fixable or that they can already download a copy of NEStopia or ZSNES and all the games they want.

But I would say the Gamecube is the last of their consoles trying to compete for the mainstream segment Sony and MS are grappling over.

329317[/snapback]

Indeed. They've flat-out said that they aren't going for primary console with the Rev.

They want to be the one people grab AFTER their XBox360 os PS3.

Hence they used lighter hardware than the other guys, and they're keeping the price point low. It worked for the 'Cube, and it wasn't even the goal there.

[Zentrandude]

I see carpal tunnel syndrom and sore joints written all over the controller after seeing that demo video.  Most games involve repetitive type of input no matter how varied developer try to make it with combos and what not.  You are still limited to a set of commands.

I think it would lessen the chance to give CT than the current console controllers and pc keyboard/mouse/trackerball.

Think A1 would love it. add about 40lbs to the controller and you can have virtual weight lifting game to get all buffed up. No more saying weak nerds only play games now they can bench press like the musle bound beach guys.

feel the burn!! oh yes 5 more reps and im on to lvl 15.

[Black Valkyrie]

Yes most of NR fans will be the ones who grew up their NES, SNES and especially the NES. It`ll be its main purpose, even many game developers in Japan are getting it because of the NES games. For me I loved Nintendo in the forst place not for their games (later I started to like`em) it was none other than Konami .

Nintendo always mention the Famicom/NES in every game convention can`t blame them the golden era of Nintendo especially in Japan .

What I wanna know if it supports GB, GBC and GBA ? and the console it self will it support the flash ram carts cuz I heard it has a built in hard disk, I know the console is small to have it in.

PS : I think every NR fan should get the Hori Digital Controller if they wanna play/feel the old NES days and here a little review .

Edited September 17, 2005 by Black Valkyrie

[Loner]

Nintendo has said that the N5 will have 512 mb of built-in flash memory and it will also have a slot to put in SD cards to expand storage.

[JB0]

Nintendo has said that the N5 will have 512 mb of built-in flash memory and it will also have a slot to put in SD cards to expand storage.

329359[/snapback]

I'd heard a GB.

Half gig is pr'ly right, though.

And I'd like to point out that there IS room for a hard drive. You can stick a microdrive just about anywhere.

Edited September 17, 2005 by JB0

[mikeszekely]

I'd heard a GB.

Half gig is pr'ly right, though.

It's definately 512mb.

Indeed. They've flat-out said that they aren't going for primary console with the Rev.

They want to be the one people grab AFTER their XBox360 os PS3.

And I really think that angle is going to work for them. I've already plunked money down on the 360, and I expect it to be my system of choice for the next two years or so. If the PS3 launches at the expected $500, that's simply too rich for my blood (when half the games being developed, including RE 5, will be multiplatform anyway). But the Revolution, on the other hand, has just enough hooks that if it launches at $200 or less, I'd probably buy one as a second system.

[Gunbuster]

The PS3 $500! @_@;; I hope that's not true, I'm still trying to find a way to make $400 bucks to get the 360 ;;

[JB0]

The PS3 $500! @_@;; I hope that's not true, I'm still trying to find a way to make $400 bucks to get the 360 ;;

329440[/snapback]

I have a way... wait for the first price cut.

...

Better yet, wait for the second.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I think the motion sensing is the natural progression for 3d controllers to be honest. (not necessarily a gimmick although the look of the controller suggests that) I think gryo features will be standard in future just like the rumble pak became standard.

Imagine a fps like Descent where you constantly roll, change pitch, accelerate, reverse, rotate, and strafe in 3d to move around? It would be like circle strafing with KB+mouse but for 3d instead.

And it would be perfect for a space shooter imo.

The problem with FPS is looking affects how you walk, limited your maneuvering to a circle. Why not give omnidirectional movement and orientation (the stick) and use the analogue stick to view and control the weapon independantly of the view - acting more like a fine aim? (I think this is logical because a control stick has force feedback that centres the crosshair when you aren't pushing it)

Or better yet have two of them: one pointer to control movement, one pointer to control looking. They tried it allowing the unorthodox players of goldeneye to use two n64 controllers instead of one. This wasn't very practical though.

The only problem is how sensitive will it be? Will it be a nightmare to control for the games that utilise all the features of the controller?

Edited September 18, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Zentrandude]

think they aleady address that prob you mention about the fps games.

edit: change to better pic.

Edited September 18, 2005 by Zentrandude

[JB0]

Imagine a fps like Descent where you constantly roll, change pitch, accelerate, reverse, rotate, and strafe in 3d to move around? It would be like circle strafing with KB+mouse but for 3d instead.

That's PERFECT for the Rev controller. It's already got full orientation tracking.

I'd been using the FPS example. Track location for view, and use orientation for dodge moves, or leaning to the side and selecting weapons.

The only problem is how sensitive will it be? Will it be a nightmare to control for the games that utilise all the features of the controller?

I see one axis that may cause problems. Rotation parallel to the floor.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Of course you would be able to lock yourself to a position like goldeneye when you hold down button similar to what happens when you use fine aim.

It just depends on the software. I think a game that makes the targets nice and big and limits the range you are allowed to be attacked from will ease people into the idea.

Note that with 3d platformers like mario 64 when they introduced the analogue as standard setup for n64 games, you didn't need the pxel perfect precision of the old 2d platformers of earlier times thanks to having lots of space and big platforms with lots of surface area. (ie make the game very forgiving for beginners)

Similar to that they make sure the software autoadjusts how sensitive the fine motion you make affects things. (notice how little difference there is in feel when you press a Dual Shock 2 button even though its supposed to be sensitive?)

They just have it calibrated so that at a 45 degree angle, you are levelled. (like a foot pedal is slanted in neutral position)

Edited September 18, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Black Valkyrie]

Hold the Future !

[JB0]

Hold the Future !

329998[/snapback]

I laughed at the XBox360.

[Twoducks]

Here'a promo of Nintendo's new controler in action.

To bad Nintendo is the only company that tries hard to innovate this sequel plagued industry. But due to low third party involment the idea will probably see little development. Making a sequel is more profitable (and safer) than trying something new...

Edited September 20, 2005 by Twoducks

[Jolly Rogers]

Here'a promo of Nintendo's new controler in action.

To bad Nintendo is the only company that tries hard to innovate this sequel plagued industry. But due to low third party involment the idea will probably see little development. Making a sequel is more profitable (and safer) than trying something new...

330111[/snapback]

Your direct link to the clip somehow redirected the browser to the host's NSFW main page.