Which CONSOLE!?

[JB0]

Talk to me when you get your Master's.

At this point, I seriously doubt that you actually have a Master's. Unless, of course, they give those out from clown colleges.

it could be one of those "honorary masters" some colleges give out to ummm "special" people.

shame he got a custom title. cmon make mine "evil and proud of it" don't make me assault the world with a spice girl or micheal bolton cd.

HAHAHA!

That's beautiful.

[waters7]

mikeszekely-

QUOTE 

Don't worry, MGREXX. No one's envying your "intellectual prowess."

For the record, I graduated with honors from high school with a 3.8, and I got my BA in International Studies, 3.4.

Talk to me when you get your Master's.

QUOTE 

Definately NOT a fact. And you have the gall to call me a liar? You're constantly making up "facts" to go alone with your arguments, in this thread and others. The Xbox is the only console so far that has consistantly sold at a loss.

IT IS A WIDELY KNOWN FACT.

Look at this and lern something:

Link #1

link #2

Link #3

Link #4

Need I say more? Cosloe manufacturers either break even or loose money on their initial hardware sales. Now just accept it and lets move on.

I am not believing any hype. I saw the system, the specs, the demo's and videos of actual gameplay and I am convinced that it is going to kick Xbox360's a$$. The facts are there, you just have to accept them for what they are, instead of hiding behind conspiracys and SONY hatemongering.

You know what, I take it that we are going to have to agree to disagree because it's obvious that you won't accept the truth. Too bad but come spring 2006, you will see the light.

This post has been edited by MGREXX on May 21 2005, 07:26 AM

This guy sounds like of of them Robotech fanboys who believe that their series (Robotech) is the most original, inspiring and innovating series since the dawn of time.

Regards....

[JB0]

This guy sounds like of of them Robotech fanboys who believe that their series (Robotech) is the most original, inspiring and innovating series since the dawn of time.

Regards....

MGREXX HAS preached the Robotech angle several times.

Something about it being a fresh and vital license while Macross has shrivelled up and died and we're all delusional ninnies holding onto a dream that has died.

Edited May 22, 2005 by JB0

[mikeszekely]

Only clueless Xbox fanboy retards will go to any lengths to defend an overrated system who is doomed to failure.

Geez, I can't believe I missed that one.

Perhaps our definintion of "fanboy" is different... but I'd define a console fanboy as someone who stubbornly supports only one console, refuses to see the merits of other consoles, and offers hype for facts.

It'd be hard then, to say that I'm an Xbox fanboy, considering that I own all three current consoles. If I was an anti-Sony fanboy, I certainly wouldn't own a PS2 or a PSP. In fact, when I voted at the beginning of this thread, I actually picked "more than one," figuring that at some point, I'll have picked up both the Xbox 360 and a PS3. That said, I do personally find the Xbox 360 more appealing at the moment.

Now, explain to us, why you consider the Xbox 360 an "overrated system who is doomed to failure." When Microsoft entered the console wars, everyone thought the Xbox was going to bomb faster than the the ill-fated Dreamcast (mostly because no American console had enjoyed any real success since the Atari family). Despite that, they've managed to get solidly in second place. Far from being doomed to failure, they will most likely continue to close the gap on Sony (although I doubt they'll overtake in the next-gen... too many people will buy the PS3 because it's got the word "PlayStation" engraved on it).

And time will tell which, in any, console is actually overrated. But I do remember, before the current generation, a certain company talking about their console as if it were some kind of super computer (to the point that rumors got around that the Iraqis were trying to get their hands on them to use their chipsets in missiles). I also remember said console not being much more impressive than the Dreamcast. If history is any indication, I'm afraid it won't be the 360 that turns out to be overrated.

They are doomed to playing so-so games and buying stuff on the Xbox live online marketplace.

So-so games? Star Wars: Republic Commando, Knights of the Old Republic, Halo, Jade Empire, Fable, etc... not exactly what I'd call so-so games. Fable and Halo are confirmed for the 360, a third KOTOR game is in the works (not sure if it's for the current Xbox or the 360), and there are rumors that there will be another Jade Empire on the 360. What does Sony have? Gran Turismo (Forza)? Tekken (Dead or Alive)? Killzone? (Halo and/or Perfect Dark). Grand Theft Auto (shows up on Microsoft's console eventually)? Actually, most of the major franchises show up on both consoles, and that's unlikely to change in the next generation.

As for the "BS monthly fees"... SOMEONE has to cover the costs of the servers. Bandwidth ain't free. Neither is hardware.

To be fair, those "BS montly fees" aren't monthly. It's a piddly $50 a year. Considering how much more organized and unified it is over Sony's hand's-off approach to online gaming, I'd say it's $50 well spent, too.

Ironically, Sony has been considering adopting a subscription service for online gaming on the PS3. Now why do I expect that those "BS monthly fees" will suddenly be reguarded as genius when/if that happens?

[JB0]

Now, explain to us, why you consider the Xbox 360 an "overrated system who is doomed to failure." When Microsoft entered the console wars, everyone thought the Xbox was going to bomb faster than the the ill-fated Dreamcast (mostly because no American console had enjoyed any real success since the Atari family).

I feel obliged to note that only 2 of Atari's 5 systems have enjoyed any real success(both of the machines that were released in the pre-crash days), as well as other American companies did have quite successful machines, most notably the Intellivision and Colecovision.

[Skull Leader]

Don't worry, MGREXX. No one's envying your "intellectual prowess."

For the record, I graduated with honors from high school with a 3.8, and I got my BA in International Studies, 3.4.

Talk to me when you get your Master's.

I'm still waiting to hear what mythical college you got this master's degree from, along with a name so I can look it up (being a scant semester away from finishing my own, I'm not in the least phased by your claims)

Ever since the 32bit console wars happened, I've been pretty firmly in sony's court. It has more to do with game selection (it's really hard to argue the fact that the Sony PS-game library is pretty extensive.. and the back-compatibility of the PS2 was a beautiful thing... once they got the bugs worked out) than anything else... but i've got to be honest, MGREXX... you give sony fans an incredibly bad name. You don't give Xbox credit where it's due (I don't necessarily like the system, but I acknowledge that it's capable of great things and there are awesome games for it), rather you seem content to mutter meaningless rhetoric that does nothing but hoist yourself on your own petard.

Mikeszekely and I aren't exactly closest friends, but we've discussed games together (along with JB0) for a LONG time on this board. Given many of the things he's said (in ADDITION to the fact that he works at a gaming store), I'd say he has his finger pretty firmly on the pulse of the gaming world. Maybe not an end-all-be-all authority, but certainly more learned than YOU.

MGREXX, do yourself (and us) a favor. PLEASE take the time to review your threads and edit them for stupidity (a tall order, I know).

Edited May 22, 2005 by Skull Leader

[Wes]

Okay, to open up:

MGREXX, you are being a tool. Face it. I mean, I just sat here and read thru the whole discussion; all you've done is repeate the same points and, it some refutes them, you call them something stupid and repeate the same points. And this somehow shows your superior maturity and intellect. If everyone is giving you crap about it, maybe it isn't everyone else who has the problem, it really is you, and you need to actually see what you're talking about.

Max, I'M the only one who uses Penny-Arcade comics as a reference to the discussions on threads! (at least the dead-horse one) It's like my style.

Now then, the funny thing is that Agent One was asking which system(s) you are going to get, not which one will claim world supremancy and become the biblical Antichrist or what not. For that cause some people have really tried to express their views in a rational sense: I'll get the one with the best/most games, better graphics, online play, etc, whatever motivates their desires. Why argue about which one is the better choice, especially seeing as there is still very little out about them?

Personally I'm not all that excited about any of them. I'm not going to have the time nor the money to really throw down the $300-400 needed to get a system going and where I like it. It isn't like there's anything new or great coming with the new systems anyways. The last time I got excited about a console was the N64(because it was 3D) and GBA(because it was practically SNES's second coming). All these systems got is better 3D, wireless and maybe online/HDD standard. Won't buy any until a price drop, or if Macross comes out on one of them.

If you want to talk about which one will gain more ground, I think it'll probably be Xbox this time around, specifically because of timing, the thing that knocked Nintendo off it's throne in the first place. From what I've seen, the 360's set to release before the end of the year, when most of the consoles are sold. And seeing as so many people have to have a system ASAP if possible, no matter what the price at holiday season, all the ones Microsolf makes will be sold. If Microsolf can have alot of systems out by that time, they could gain at least a solid 2nd spot. If Nintendo wants a chance, it's got to launch in 2005, but without even a controler out, it looks doubtful.

I also noticed there's alot of talk about the need of increased disc memory. I think evaluation into how much is lacking though. I think a better way to view it is by looking at the history of media storage on the cartridge to see the progression, like if System Z is X times powerful than its predessor, System Y, then it needs media that holds .5, 1, 2, 4, etc times X is necessary. I was trying to look at that earlier, but it's pretty confusing in the NES-era. Maybe someone with more experience can look into this.

Edited May 22, 2005 by Wes

[JB0]

I also noticed there's alot of talk about the need of increased disc memory.  I think evaluation into how much is lacking though.  I think a better way to view it is by looking at the history of media storage on the cartridge to see the progression, like if System Z is X times powerful than its predessor, System Y, then it needs media that holds .5, 1, 2, 4, etc times X is necessary.  I was trying to look at that earlier, but it's pretty confusing in the NES-era.  Maybe someone with more experience can look into this.

NES-era storage space is messy, to say the least.

The NES/FamiCom was concieved right at the end of the single-screen black-background arcade paradigm, as scrolling gameplay and background imagery was just coming into fashion.

It was hopelessly inadequate almost immediatly.

Virtually every NES game has bank-switching "mapper" chips to multiply the ROM address space massively(sidenote: NES has a ROM bus for graphics and a ROM bus for code, so there are 2 seperate busses to bank).

These "mappers" also tend to add more RAM to the system, and a few have extra sound channels or interrupt hardware.

Without bank-switching, you run out of space trying to do anything more advanced than Super Mario Brothers 1.

WITH bank-switching, Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Ninja Gaiden, Contra, Megaman, Gradius, and a whole host of other titles become possible.

Some are obscure(Metal Storm, which is among the most graphically impressive NES games as well as damn fun, and really deserves far more attention than it gets), some cult classics(Blaster Master), and some are among the best-known titles on the system(Super Mario 3)

Now the SNES and Genesis never used bank-switching(I THINK the GEnesis didn't anyways).

However, towards the end the SNES DID get crowded.

Data compression was used to keep the ROMs smaller(for cost reasons more than address, though). 5 games make use of a coprocessor designed explicity for extreme grpahics compression.

If I recall, 2 games DID manage to fill the SNES' entire ROM address space(Tales of Phantasia and Star Ocean{which also used one of the graphics compression coprocessors}).

CD-ROM lasted for 2 generations(remember, the SNES/Genesis era had a healthy CD-ROM market on the SegaCD, PCEngine, and computers ). Admittedly, there was a lot of disk-swapping at the end of that second generation. But that first generation had a lot of pretty crowded disks.

DVD is ending it's first generation with most disks being half-full.

Edited May 22, 2005 by JB0

[Noyhauser]

CD-ROM lasted for 2 generations(remember, the SNES/Genesis era had a healthy CD-ROM market on the SegaCD, PCEngine, and computers ). Admittedly, there was a lot of disk-swapping at the end of that second generation. But that first generation had a lot of pretty crowded disks.

DVD is ending it's first generation with most disks being half-full.

Now I've got a question for you JBO and others... admittedly I'm not an expert in these matters (I just read this stuff at my leasure, usually from business mags when I come across them), but why is that so? Is it because data size has expanded beyond the capabilities of Processors to use that information? Like the way I see it, is there processor and graphics chips are too limited in their capacity to render things on screen so there is no need for so much memory? If that is the case, then the DVD format may become quickly outmoded on the PS3 and Xbox because it is better able to take advantage of the capabilities available.

[Black Valkyrie]

I said it before and I`ll say it again if the N64 was a CD console, things today would be diffierent.

Important note :

Due to success of PSOne and PS2 cuz of the bootleg games world wide, consumer buying more than one console ... bad quality, mistouch and either with a mod chip or none . Sony is making cash from their consoles not the games.

As for PS3 format the Blu-ray it will be very difficult for the bootlegs, till now there is no recordable Blu-ray drive in the market but may be in a few years. Another thing is that the bootlegs for PS2 when its one year old, most DVD games copied into CDs like one DVD into six CDs at the time there were no blank DVDs but the DVD drive was available but very expensive cuz many companies were into not like the Blu-ray now only Sony.

[JB0]

CD-ROM lasted for 2 generations(remember, the SNES/Genesis era had a healthy CD-ROM market on the SegaCD, PCEngine, and computers ). Admittedly, there was a lot of disk-swapping at the end of that second generation. But that first generation had a lot of pretty crowded disks.

DVD is ending it's first generation with most disks being half-full.

Now I've got a question for you JBO and others... admittedly I'm not an expert in these matters (I just read this stuff at my leasure, usually from business mags when I come across them), but why is that so? Is it because data size has expanded beyond the capabilities of Processors to use that information? Like the way I see it, is there processor and graphics chips are too limited in their capacity to render things on screen so there is no need for so much memory? If that is the case, then the DVD format may become quickly outmoded on the PS3 and Xbox because it is better able to take advantage of the capabilities available.

The big thing I see is... the higher resolution digital TVs are capable of will necessitate higher-poly models and more detailed texture maps.

The limitations of NTSC let them get away with relatively low-detail scenes. That era is over.

And while many PC games(which have been dealing with sharper, higher-resolution displays for years) still come on single CDs, the data is all heavily compressed, necessitating a gig or 3 of hard-drive space to decompress things to. But... not to the 8.5 gig max of dual-layer DVD.

[JB0]

I said it before and I`ll say it again if the N64 was a CD console, things today would be diffierent.

Not really. The N64 was late. By the time it hit shelves, the battle was over, and PS1 had soundly defeated the Saturn in America.

In Japan, the N64 had very little of interest at launch, leading to poor sales. This discouraged japanese developers from adopting it, leading to a dearth of software in the US(despite somewhat better sales).

Important note :   

Due to success of PSOne and PS2 cuz of the bootleg games world wide, consumer buying more than one console ... bad quality, mistouch and either with a mod chip or none .  Sony is making cash from their consoles not the games. 

Sony makes a good profit off software licenses too.

Check the sales #s. PS2 games still move at a fairly brisk rate.

[Duke Togo]

I said it before and I`ll say it again if the N64 was a CD console, things today would be diffierent.

A very accurate statement.

[Black Valkyrie]

I said it before and I`ll say it again if the N64 was a CD console, things today would be diffierent. 

Not really. The N64 was late. By the time it hit shelves, the battle was over, and PS1 had soundly defeated the Saturn in America.

In Japan, the N64 had very little of interest at launch, leading to poor sales. This discouraged japanese developers from adopting it, leading to a dearth of software in the US(despite somewhat better sales).

Important note :     

Due to success of PSOne and PS2 cuz of the bootleg games world wide, consumer buying more than one console ... bad quality, mistouch and either with a mod chip or none .  Sony is making cash from their consoles not the games. 

Sony makes a good profit off software licenses too.

Check the sales #s. PS2 games still move at a fairly brisk rate.

True but then FF7 will be then on N64 not PS if it was a CD system. Well at least The Saturn was No.2 in Japan and the Far East cuz of its 2D and fighting games.

[mikeszekely]

Mikeszekely and I aren't exactly closest friends, but we've discussed games together (along with JB0) for a LONG time on this board.

We aren't?

Seriously, Skullone, you and JB0 are some of my favorite people to disagree with, because you tend to have the most well thought-out arguments.

Now I've got a question for you JBO and others... admittedly I'm not an expert in these matters (I just read this stuff at my leasure, usually from business mags when I come across them), but why is that so?

I'd say the simple answer is that the size of games hasn't really grown at the rate that the storage media for the games has grown. Most of the PlayStation's library fit comfortably on 750MB CDs, and the largest barely spilled onto four... let's say 3GB. The average PS2 game today is around 3GB, with the largest I've ever seen barely hitting 7GB, most of it video. I could count the number of games that actually needed to be on dual-layer discs (some of Sony's first party games, like God of War, would easily fit on a single layer, but they split the game onto two layers to make it harder to pirate) on one hand.

I said it before and I`ll say it again if the N64 was a CD console, things today would be diffierent.

True but then FF7 will be then on N64 not PS if it was a CD system.

I'm not going to say that FF7 didn't help move PlayStations, especially in Japan... but in the US, Finaly Fantasy and RPGs in general were more of a niche genre before FF7.

I'd say that Sony Nintendo more on marketing. Videogames have been on the decline for a long time in Japan, while the American market has been getting bigger and bigger. A large part of that was due to Sony, for better or for worse, marketing to a larger, more mainstream audience. Videogames went from being for kids and geeks to cool. Using optical discs alone wouldn't have saved the N64 anymore than it saved the Gamecube (or likely the Revolution). They may take props for not marketing to the mainstream the way Sony and Microsoft do, but it's the reason their in third.

I feel obliged to note that only 2 of Atari's 5 systems have enjoyed any real success(both of the machines that were released in the pre-crash days), as well as other American companies did have quite successful machines, most notably the Intellivision and Colecovision.

The Intellivision and Colecovison were both on the market around the same time as the Ataris. At that time, the market was mostly American. So again, the Xbox has been the first successful American console since the Atari family.

Although, since you pointed out that both of Atari's successes were pre-crash, maybe I should say that the Xbox is the first successful American console since the crash?

[Skull Leader]

Mikeszekely and I aren't exactly closest friends, but we've discussed games together (along with JB0) for a LONG time on this board.

We aren't?

Seriously, Skullone, you and JB0 are some of my favorite people to disagree with, because you tend to have the most well thought-out arguments.

*ahem* it's SkullLEADER

What I meant really was that beyond videogaming threads, we don't debate much together... but you're right, it's always good to talk videogames with some of the more heavy-hitting gamers on the board (as I said, you, me, JB0, and any others who tend to chime in)

Friends it is then!

[mikeszekely]

*ahem* it's SkullLEADER

Ooh, my bad.

Hmm... now I wonder if we do have a Skullone. I think we should. And then we should include him in our little cabal of people who like to argue with each other...

[Skull Leader]

I believe we do have one (or HAD one... was he maybe one of the guys that got banned?)... I can't remember really and I'm too lazy to look it up!

[JB0]

I said it before and I`ll say it again if the N64 was a CD console, things today would be diffierent. 

Not really. The N64 was late. By the time it hit shelves, the battle was over, and PS1 had soundly defeated the Saturn in America.

In Japan, the N64 had very little of interest at launch, leading to poor sales. This discouraged japanese developers from adopting it, leading to a dearth of software in the US(despite somewhat better sales).

Important note :   

Due to success of PSOne and PS2 cuz of the bootleg games world wide, consumer buying more than one console ... bad quality, mistouch and either with a mod chip or none .  Sony is making cash from their consoles not the games. 

Sony makes a good profit off software licenses too.

Check the sales #s. PS2 games still move at a fairly brisk rate.

True but then FF7 will be then on N64 not PS if it was a CD system. Well at least The Saturn was No.2 in Japan and the Far East cuz of its 2D and fighting games.

*shakes head*

If the N64 hadn't come late AND Nintendo hadn't ritually abused Square for years, MAYBE.

CD didn't factor into it as much as people make it out.

The 3rd parties left Nintendo because

A. the SNES couldn't compete against the PS and Saturn.

B. Nintendo had a proud tradition of abusing all but a select few licensees.

[CoryHolmes]

B. Nintendo had a proud tradition of abusing all but a select few licensees.

Abusing in what way?

[Wes]

B. Nintendo had a proud tradition of abusing all but a select few licensees.

Abusing in what way?

From what I've heard, it was they were charging high license rates per cartridge, plus charging for what was made, not just what sold in stores. So the developers ate most of the dept.

[ewilen]

It will certainly be interesting to see how all the horsepower in the new consoles gets used. BTW, I don't recall what sort of hard disk space the PS3 will have--I assume the XBox 360 will have some kind of HD.

The reason I'm wondering is, I'm not really all that interested in rendering quality and I'm skeptical about the importance of "lifelike" character expressions to gameplay. OTOH, a standardized gaming platform that could handle a massive physical simulation on the scale of the high end PC flight simulators, with vast amounts of "game world detail" being generated and managed in realtime...

Edited May 23, 2005 by ewilen

[Max Jenius]

B. Nintendo had a proud tradition of abusing all but a select few licensees.

Abusing in what way?

From what I've heard, it was they were charging high license rates per cartridge, plus charging for what was made, not just what sold in stores. So the developers ate most of the dept.

That was a big one. Nintendo was used to being able to do what they wanted.

[NSJ23]

So-so games? Star Wars: Republic Commando, Knights of the Old Republic, Halo, Jade Empire, Fable, etc... not exactly what I'd call so-so games. Fable and Halo are confirmed for the 360, a third KOTOR game is in the works (not sure if it's for the current Xbox or the 360), and there are rumors that there will be another Jade Empire on the 360. What does Sony have? Gran Turismo (Forza)? Tekken (Dead or Alive)? Killzone? (Halo and/or Perfect Dark). Grand Theft Auto (shows up on Microsoft's console eventually)? Actually, most of the major franchises show up on both consoles, and that's unlikely to change in the next generation.

I not arguing against anything you said in your post, but the X-box games you listed are only good to you because of your personal preference. Not one game you listed (for X-box or X-box 360) would make me want to buy a X-box 360 because they are not the type of games I like. That's why currently I'm only getting the PS3.

[JB0]

B. Nintendo had a proud tradition of abusing all but a select few licensees.

Abusing in what way?

From what I've heard, it was they were charging high license rates per cartridge, plus charging for what was made, not just what sold in stores. So the developers ate most of the dept.

They also tended to make them sign somewhat abusive contracts stating that either the developer would only code for Nintendo systems or that specific games could only appear on Nintendo systems, depending on the time period and the company.

That's why, for example, the Genesis has "Street Fighter 2 Super Championship Edition" instead of "Street Fighter 2 Turbo." Nintendo made Capcom sign a contract saying that "Street Fighter 2 Turbo" wouldn't be made for the Genesis.

And they restricted game releases, at least in the NES days.

They wouldn't license more than a certain # of games in a given time period. I don't know why, but they did(that's why Tengen started releasing unlicensed games, because Nintendo denied them several licenses for games that their licensors acknowledged were darn good).

And the initial releases were often intentionally underprinted.

It made the NES look more popular, because the games were always sold out at launch.

For the developers, it sucked because it cut into their profits.

[mikeszekely]

So-so games? Star Wars: Republic Commando, Knights of the Old Republic, Halo, Jade Empire, Fable, etc... not exactly what I'd call so-so games. Fable and Halo are confirmed for the 360, a third KOTOR game is in the works (not sure if it's for the current Xbox or the 360), and there are rumors that there will be another Jade Empire on the 360. What does Sony have? Gran Turismo (Forza)? Tekken (Dead or Alive)? Killzone? (Halo and/or Perfect Dark). Grand Theft Auto (shows up on Microsoft's console eventually)? Actually, most of the major franchises show up on both consoles, and that's unlikely to change in the next generation.

I not arguing against anything you said in your post, but the X-box games you listed are only good to you because of your personal preference. Not one game you listed (for X-box or X-box 360) would make me want to buy a X-box 360 because they are not the type of games I like. That's why currently I'm only getting the PS3.

Well, of course those games aren't going to appeal to everyone. And of course, if none of those games interest you, or if none of the exclusives on any give console interest you, there's no reason to buy it. I cited those examples because they were games that were reviewed well in general.

To look at it another way, I actually have an extreme dislike of all the 3D Zelda games. They might not be my cup of tea, but (at least Ocarina of Time and Windwaker) were reviewed well and recieved well by fans. So, it'd be hard for me to argue that the Gamecube only has so-so games just because I don't like Zelda. But, there's a good chance that the Revolution won't appeal to me personally.

That was a big one. Nintendo was used to being able to do what they wanted.

I think, to some extent, they still are, and likely will until Satoru Iwata steps down.

That was a big one. Nintendo was used to being able to do what they wanted.

The 360 is confirmed to have a 20GB external hard drive. The PS3 is supposed to have a port for a hard drive, but no plans for a hard drive are announced. I really hope that if they do announce a hard drive it'll be more useful than the one that was eventually released for the PS2.

Edited May 23, 2005 by mikeszekely

[Skull Leader]

The 360 is confirmed to have a 20GB external hard drive.  The PS3 is supposed to have a port for a hard drive, but no plans for a hard drive are announced.  I really hope that if they do announce a hard drive it'll be more useful than the one that was eventually released for the PS2.

With any luck, they'll just set it up so you can hook up you OWN Hard Drive (I seem to recall that if you formatted a certain toshiba hard drive or something, you could mount it in your PS2 much like the hard drive that was released for it)

I know that wouldn't make sony any money (I certainly would buy a more top-notch HD if that was the case, and it would be an f-in big one too), but when it comes to add-ons of this nature, few gaming companies seem to be very forward-thinking... and if it's not the hardware developers, it's the 3rd-party game developers. The serious downfall of the PS2 hard drive concept is that it's only really good for FFXI, not much else has made any use of it.

That said, I'm pretty much sony-loyal (their last two platforms have done really well by me), and I'm fairly certain the PS3 will be my first next-gen aquisition. Once the prices drop one more time, I'll probably pick up an X-box though. (Damn gamestop and their not allowing you to use your membership card for discounts on used systems! )

Edited May 23, 2005 by Skull Leader

[JB0]

The 360 is confirmed to have a 20GB external hard drive.  The PS3 is supposed to have a port for a hard drive, but no plans for a hard drive are announced.  I really hope that if they do announce a hard drive it'll be more useful than the one that was eventually released for the PS2.

With any luck, they'll just set it up so you can hook up you OWN Hard Drive (I seem to recall that if you formatted a certain toshiba hard drive or something, you could mount it in your PS2 much like the hard drive that was released for it)

Actually, any IDE hard drive will work.

You just need the system to set it up for PS2 games to recognize.

I know that wouldn't make sony any money (I certainly would buy a more top-notch HD if that was the case, and it would be an f-in big one too), but when it comes to add-ons of this nature, few gaming companies seem to be very forward-thinking... and if it's not the hardware developers, it's the 3rd-party game developers. The serious downfall of the PS2 hard drive concept is that it's only really good for FFXI, not much else has made any use of it.

In Japan more stuff made use of it, because it was out almost immediatly.

And there's always HDLoader...

[RichterX]

The bad thing of the X-box titles is that most of them are also in PC and the prices drop faster for PC games than for the X-box

I was hoping that by now DVD would be used in all of it capacity and having games of 2 or 3 discs

The main reason I bought a PS2 was because it could be modded and get bootlegs pretty easy at home and there were no games that make me feel like getting an X-box.

I am going to wait, 3 - 4 years after the next generation consoles come out to see all the different game titles. Everytime I buy a new gaming console the next generation comes out

[Black Valkyrie]

B. Nintendo had a proud tradition of abusing all but a select few licensees.

In the US only as I know.

[mikeszekely]

With any luck, they'll just set it up so you can hook up you OWN Hard Drive

The serious downfall of the PS2 hard drive concept is that it's only really good for FFXI, not much else has made any use of it.

That's more what I meant. Sony or otherwise, only a very small ammount of games utilized the HD... and then, only to reduce load times. Microsoft has come up with a lot more practical uses of the Xbox hard drive, which is why everyone was so up in arms over the possibility that the 360 wouldn't have one.

Damn gamestop and their not allowing you to use your membership card for discounts on used systems!

Gamestop is cheap, what can I say. Used consoles are always excluded from promotions. Hell, I'm suprised we still get the employee discount on used consoles (we don't on new).

[Lightning]

As I own both a Xbox and PS2 (both of which are slowly dieing....) I'll more than likely pick the both of them (360 and PS3) up when they come out...

[MGREXX]

WTF!!!!!!

My posts are getting erased from this thread, so it's no use to continue posting the truth. Whatever!!!!!!

BUT.........you will see me rub it in your faces when SONY wins the next gen console wars......AGAIN!!!!!!!!

Edited May 23, 2005 by MGREXX

[JB0]

B. Nintendo had a proud tradition of abusing all but a select few licensees.

In the US only as I know.

I know if nothing else, Square was abused in Japan.

They were routinely shoved aside to make room for Enix.

Square wants to release FF2 and 3? Sorry, no license.

Enix doesn't gie a crap about Dragon Quest in the US? Oh that's okay, Nintendo has their own translation team on standby

Square needs a larger ROM pack for the next FF? Tough cookies, we're waiting for Enix to make a big enough game to premiere it.

And in a rare DOUBLE-BACKSTAB... What's that Square? You've got a 99% finished game for Sony's CD-ROM expansion, and are all ready for the launch? Well gee, it's too bad we just backed out of the agreement with Sony the day before we were going to show it off to the world. We're gonna sign a license with Phillips now. And back out of that one too. Good luck shoe-horning Secret of Mana into a ROM cartridge so you can recoup your development costs, by the way.

And the truth is, Nintendo's famed grudge against Square for ditching them for Sony wasn't ABOUT Square leaving.

When Square left, Nintendo's president shrugged his shoulders and said "Meh. Who cares?"

So Square walked over to Enix and gave them an extended sales pitch about how awesome Sony and the PlayStation were. So Enix left Nintendo.

THEN Nintendo's president got mad at Square(and sat there denying them GBA dev kits when Square expressed interest in it).

[Black Valkyrie]

Yes JBO I know some of the story, Nintendo of Japan`s president is one bad .. , his mind is just business, even with his family. His daughter in an interview once said he is no man to be with (she ment as a husband and father).

In 1994 with when Nintendo started to loss their no. 1 spot in the US against Sega, quickly Nintendo of Japan ordered NOA`s president who`s his son in law to report back in Japan in person. Note : Nintendo was never No. 1 in Europe, just in Germany.

Another thing is that Konami of Japan didn`t release NES Castlevania-III in the US and Europe with the custom sound chip cuz of the cost ?!, OK then what about The MSX computers the Euro version, most of its games had that chip.

Example : Salamander, Gradius-II/Nemesis-II, Parodius, F-1 Spirit, Kings Valley-II and Contra. And yes I had one just for Konami games. awesome