Which CONSOLE!?

[Effect]

I honestly wish game developers would actually fill the dvd up with levels, areas, and gameplay instead of filling it up with tons of cut scenes. I've always wondered how much space many of these games that use dvds would take up if you removed all the cut scenes from the games and left the gameplay. I'd imagine they aren't using up much space at all. I'm sure Square games are really guilty of this with it's Final Fantasy games which have becomre more about the cut scenes then the game play at times.

Compared to Nintendo games that while using mini-disc most likely use up all of the disc and even have to use more then one. FOr example Tales of Symphonia for the GameCube uses two mini-disc yet has no cut scenes outside of the opening anime. Everything is doing in game, even scenes that progress the story is still done in the same way that you move around and play the game.

[bandit29]

I honestly wish game developers would actually fill the dvd up with levels, areas, and gameplay instead of filling it up with tons of cut scenes.

Until guys like Hideo Kojima (MGS) or companies like Square or EA stop making videogames that won't happen. I'm really tired of all of the lame cutscenes, CG movies and the 3rd rate stories. I usually hit the x button or whatever. I wanna play games not watch them.

[Druna Skass]

Of those three companies, Sony is the only on who hasn't pissed me off. Nintendo let me down and microsoft seems to take sick demented pleasure in pissing me the f*ck off. I was just using my word processor when the damned thing "encountered and error" and made me lose 2 pages of my paper on Russia. It took a lot of self control to not put a hole in the wall.

Unlike my PC with XP, I've never felt a boiling rage that makes want to hurl my PS2 out my 3rd story window.

...Yes Druna Skass needs anger management...

Sounds like an unrelated problem to me. You should take better care of your computer. The only problem I've had with Windows XP since its come out is infinite loop errors and that's had a suspicious correlation with when I've had VIA chipset mobos(Only nForce from here on out baby!). So that's probably not even MS.

As for Sony; wait til you get a D.R.E. . .

Personally, I don't really care for any of the systems. Nintendo's is the most intriguing, but I have to see more, I think that they have more up their sleeves and it should become apparent soon.

Oh it's not just the occational error with XP, my true dislike for microsoft came about when I had to put up with that steaming pile of SH!T OS called ME. And don't tell me it isn't microsoft either, the thing was crap and they knew it yet they released it anyway. Use an OS that with a 99% chance on crashing on you when ever you use it and tell me you love microsoft.

[Skull Leader]

Oh it's not just the occational error with XP, my true dislike for microsoft came about when I had to put up with that steaming pile of SH!T OS called ME. And don't tell me it isn't microsoft either, the thing was crap and they knew it yet they released it anyway. Use an OS that with a 99% chance on crashing on you when ever you use it and tell me you love microsoft.

LOL, you probably would've found it easier if you had never touched ME (I saw the madness around me when ME was released and stuck with Win98 until XP hit the market)

[mikeszekely]

Congrats, MGREXX. It only took you, what three days to come up with a reply?

ANYWAYS, stop skirting aroung the facts, brother. The PS3 has a WHOLE LOT MORE shaders which means the games will look a lot better, even without maxing out anytime soon.

If a developer is only going to use, say, 10 billion shader ops per second, well within the capabilities of both consoles, it doesn't matter that the PS3 can support 90+ billion over the 360's 45 billion. If a game looks better on the PS3, you can damn well believe it's not for the shaders.

HD sales have started to pick up significantly this year, so the future of HD is approaching sooner that you know, so wake up and smell reality.

Not all HD sets go all the way up to 1080p. And, for the third time, having a console with 1080p support doesn't guarantee software at 1080p.

Don't think SONY is stupid. They will release the PS3 on blue-ray if there is no standard. If a standard is agreed upon, then the PS3 will come with that instead. It;s not very diificult to swap drives, Sherlock.

It is AFTER the hardware has gone into production. The movie industry is no closer to declaring a winner. But if Sony intends to launch the PS3 in the spring, they will be fully in production, complete with Blu-Ray drives.

For the last time. the PS3 will not cost $500.00 you lemming. The Mainichi Daily News DID NOT say that. They said that it would cost U-N-D-E-R $500.00. Get your facts straight.

It might help you a lot if you actually read the quote you're quoting. I never said that the PS3 would retail for $500 dollars, nor did I say that the Mainichi Daily News reported that to be the case. I said that the Mainichi Daily News reported that the PS3 will retail for 50,000 yen. Not under, for. And that, as I already mentioned in the very quote you quoted, is about $470.

Who cares about your brother. He does not represent the USA.

Nor do your facts. Yes, the PS2 did spur the sale of DVD movies in Japan. No, the DVD market was already in full swing when the PS2 released here. And yes, most people in America do have a stand alone DVD player. Feel free to start another of your polls if you want a broader opinion.

Regardless, I will continue to school you.

No thanks. I don't want a degree from your Moron University.

Hideo Kojima dod in fact make that statement. WHhy did he not go with a dual layer format? Who cares but he didn't and did run out of space. He has his reasons and he is not the first to say this. The fact is that, deveopers are running out of space and they DO need discs that hold more room without having to multi layer.

Sorry, I stand by what I said. MGS3 is on a single-layer disc. If Kojima really felt that he needed more room, he could have used used a dual-layer. Multi-layer discs are not more difficult to work with... hell, Sony's been using them on games that would have fit on a single-layer (ala God of War). The industry shouldn't conform to a standard that may or may not take off when the current standard has plenty of room left.

Don't give me that weak $hit man. dry.gif unplug it. Is that what you do when you run out of plugs in an outlet.

Yes.

Why do you thing that newer computers have more and more USB ports and the like compared to older computers. They are a must. The same holds true for consoles

Computers do need more USB ports. They need extra ports for things that consoles don't need, like printers, scanners, mice and keyboards, etc. Consoles don't need those things.

They are turning into media centers that you will be able to merge your digital and Internet lifestyle to. You will use it for many devices, like cameras, psp, mic's, keyboards, etc...... Multiple ports will be a must and unplugging them is a moronic solution unless you don't have a digital lifestyle and that means you are old.

Now who's talking old? Why use the old fashioned way of connecting your media via USB, when the Xbox will be able to stream it all wirelessly?

Besides, if you're too lazy to unplug your PSP when you're done transfering media, you've got problems.

Generic sequels? Try best selling sequels to established and best selling franchises.

Yes, generic sequels to established... that is stale... franchises.

A demo running on a development kit gives a sense of how the end will will eventually turn out.

A demo running of an alpha dev kit is nothing more than a movie. It's no indication of how the games will actually look. Even if the movies they've shown at E3 can play on the finished hardware, a cutscene can look a lot better than the actual gameplay.

PS3 had no playable games at E3 because they are all early in development but MS had plenty of Xbxo360 games that were playable which means that they are farther along and the PS3 demos looked better. What does that tell you??????????

It tells me that the 360 games are indicative of what the final games might look like, while the PS3 may (or may not) have some wicked looking cutscenes. That hardly tells me that the PS3 is going to have better looking games.

PS3 blue-ray games $59.00

Xbox360 games $59.00

hmmmm.......no difference in price for the "more costly" Blue-ray games????

SHOCKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...................NOT!!!!!!!! I told you all.

Are you paying attention mikeszekely???????

Yep. Games may (or may not) cost $60 in the next gen. Gamestop was also saying that DS games would cost $40 for awhile.

Besides, I didn't say that Blu-Ray games would cost more. I said that Blu-Ray would make the PS3 hardware more costly. And so far, that's looking to be the case.

[Oihan]

Yes, the PS3 is a monster of a console and arguably more powerful than the 360,

More powerfull? To the best of my knowledge, the only thing the PS3 has over the XBox 360 is a more powerfull graphics card...and that's it. The XBox 360 beats the PS3 in all the other aspects...bus and cpu speeds, RAM...etc. And from what I've read, the XBox 360 should be coming out (with the 20 Gig HD included) @ ~ $300. I havne't read anything price wise on the PS3 or Revolution.

...And from what I've seen, they both look pretty damn good graphics wise...I can't really tell which looks better. I'll probably end up getting both platforms...and maybe even Nintendo's too, but that's a big maybe. Furthermore, when it came down to buying a PS2, CG, or XBox, I went with the XBox. Halo and Conker is what sold me on the XBox. $$$ Killzone 2 looks freakin' sweet though! That game will probably be a reason why I buy a PS3, that and the FFVII port/remake!!! Gears of War looks great too on the 360...and then there's Halo 3 coming to the 360 as well...! I don't think I could buy only one console this time around.

[Oihan]

I will not buy a microsoft game machine unless I have no other choice for access to key game developers like Square and Rockstar or any other developers that start putting out games I want to play. The games make the system. Let's face the facts, Game-cube, PS-2, X-Box it doesn't matter what the thing you stick the games in looks like for real. If the games are good, run smooth and handle nicely it doesn't matter.

Final Fantasy will be coming to both the PS3 and XBox 360, not sure about the Revolution. So much for brand exclusive only titles.

[Max Jenius]

Of those three companies, Sony is the only on who hasn't pissed me off. Nintendo let me down and microsoft seems to take sick demented pleasure in pissing me the f*ck off. I was just using my word processor when the damned thing "encountered and error" and made me lose 2 pages of my paper on Russia. It took a lot of self control to not put a hole in the wall.

Unlike my PC with XP, I've never felt a boiling rage that makes want to hurl my PS2 out my 3rd story window.

...Yes Druna Skass needs anger management...

Sounds like an unrelated problem to me. You should take better care of your computer. The only problem I've had with Windows XP since its come out is infinite loop errors and that's had a suspicious correlation with when I've had VIA chipset mobos(Only nForce from here on out baby!). So that's probably not even MS.

As for Sony; wait til you get a D.R.E. . .

Personally, I don't really care for any of the systems. Nintendo's is the most intriguing, but I have to see more, I think that they have more up their sleeves and it should become apparent soon.

Oh it's not just the occational error with XP, my true dislike for microsoft came about when I had to put up with that steaming pile of SH!T OS called ME. And don't tell me it isn't microsoft either, the thing was crap and they knew it yet they released it anyway. Use an OS that with a 99% chance on crashing on you when ever you use it and tell me you love microsoft.

LOL

Ok then. ME was crap. I WILL give you that. One of my room-mates in college bought a computer running that while I was running Win2k. I'm glad I never switched... but seeing how many problems he had with that POS, its obvious why I never changed. ME was admittedly a bastard child.

I'd post a real reply, but mikeszekely has already said everything that I needed to say. This is suprising considering our disagreements on video-game philosophy/theory, but that's sort of a different issue in this thread.

[Duke Togo]

Yes, the PS3 is a monster of a console and arguably more powerful than the 360,

More powerfull? To the best of my knowledge, the only thing the PS3 has over the XBox 360 is a more powerfull graphics card...and that's it. The XBox 360 beats the PS3 in all the other aspects...

Where exactly are you getting this from? Every article I've read on the next-gen consoles says exactly the opposite. Microsoft is pulling a Sega here; coming out first, and ending up with the least powerful machine.

[Druna Skass]

Yes, the PS3 is a monster of a console and arguably more powerful than the 360,

More powerfull? To the best of my knowledge, the only thing the PS3 has over the XBox 360 is a more powerfull graphics card...and that's it. The XBox 360 beats the PS3 in all the other aspects...bus and cpu speeds, RAM...etc. And from what I've read, the XBox 360 should be coming out (with the 20 Gig HD included) @ ~ $300. I havne't read anything price wise on the PS3 or Revolution.

Going though the arcticle, it can be argued that the PS3 is a more powerful system. The gamespot people right now are giving the power advantage to the PS3's Cell. They definatly seem more evenly matched than the xbox and PS2.

http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-15015-1985-4-6-x

[Oihan]

mikeszekely-

I am not a SONY fanboy but it appears that you are an apparent Xbox Fanboy who will not admit that the Xbox360 is inferior to the PS3.

What do I know about shaders......ALOT. Do you? I will keep it simple so that you understand. Shaders basically make games look more realistic.

3 3.2GHZ processors can't outperform one 3.2 GHZ processor with superior specs.

When 1080p is the standard, Xbox360 owners will be out of luck. You have to think about the future, insteado f building for the present. Same goes for blueray. It is the future and you have to accept it. Yes, I know that HD-DVD and Blue-ray are tring to avoind another "war" and pick one format, which would go on the PS3. Either way, the PS3 will have it and Xbox360 will have a measly DVD player. You might not use your console to play movies but the majority of owners out there do, myself included, so this is a very important feature.

Now you bring up a very misguided statement over and over whic hmust ne addressed right now. You keeo saying that current games don't take up a full dual layer DVD. Guess what........WRONG!!!!!!!!!!! Ask most producers and developers of the hottest games tha have come out recently about space. They complain that they just could not fit everything in a game because THEY RAN OUT OF SPACE. Case in point is MG3. Hideo Kojima said that he had to cut out a few scenes and features from the game because of a DISC SPACE SHORTAGE. Space is relative and there will never be too much space. As games get more realistic and feature rich, there will be need for more space.....and Blueray is the solution for the next generation of consloes......not DVD technology.

You say blue ray will be expensive to include and discs more expensiv to deveop for? Sure but SONY is willing to eat the costs if it means that blue ray discs start cathing on and they will eventually profit for it. It's all about supply and demand. Did you know that there is a stroy going around that the next gen of consloes might actually get consumers to start buying more HD sets. How is that for innovation. You buy a blue ray player and then you buy blue ray discs and then you buy a HD set to watch it all. Hmmm.....I think SONY did their homework and MS is asleep.

As for ports, if YOU don't use them then that's your problem because most people I know wish they had more ports. I use both of my PS2 USB ports to plug in a keyboard and my headset. See, I am all tapped out if I want to add something else. You need more ports and Xbox360 only has 3. Sorry, but that's just to few, especially since they are allowing you to connect all of your media to it. "sorry sir, only three allowed".

As for 7 controllers, you must once again think of the future of gaming. Sure, it seems weird now but what about in 3 years when a new franchise arrives?

What was the best PS3 demo? KillZone 2. It looked awsome. Even Unreal and fight night 3 looked sick. What about Xbox360? gears of war or Ghost 3? Is that their best? There is no comparison. The PS3 had the truly revolutionary and remarably better looking games, while Xbox360 had just better looking games compared to the original Xbox. IT is an Xbox 1.5 and not a true next gen console.

Bottom line is that the PS3 is overall superior to the Xbox360. The End.

Apparently you don't know that some of the 360 demos were only using 1/3 of the 360's full potential. Or I could have simply said that they were running those demos off of Alpha systems. I'm sure you know what Alpha and Beta means in relation to builds and so forth.

Also: "Officials from Sony apparently told the newspaper that PlayStation 3s would sell in Japan for "less than 50,000 yen each." That translates to about $465 US dollars." - IGN

Another thing...ever had dual processors in your computer? I'm guessing you haven't, otherwise you'd know that having 2 makes a difference. So what do you think 3 will do?

And if you're not a PS3 fanboy, what makes mikeszekely an XBox fanboy?

[JB0]

Yeah. I don't trust Sony either, but average dumbass (you know who you are) doesn't care. They buy into the hype(of their chosen company) and quote it as gospel truth. Its gone on for years, I remember someone saying to me that the Genesis was better than the SNES because and I quote "It has blast processing." Nevermind the fact that the Genesis couldn't have more than 64 colors on screen at once iirc.

Actually, all 512 colors of the Genesis pallete can be used at once, through suitable software trickery.

Anyways, blast processing is a half-truth.

It's an idiotic marketing term to hammer home a fact that most people in 1990 didn't understand.

A processor that gets more done per clock cycle and runs at a higher clock rate gets more done. The Genesis' 68000 CPU stomps the SNES' 65816 badly.

Which system is better depends on what you want.

The Genesis was THE fast action platform, free of much of the slowdown issues that plagued the SNES for it's entire life.

But the SNES enjoyed audiovisual capabilities far beyond Sega's limited hardware, and in a situation where speed isn't critical, you could pull all the stops out and pull some truly beautiful scenes out, making the SNES the preferred adventure/RPG platform.

[Oihan]

Wow... that is a lot. You sure showed me... 

Shaders make games look more realistic by simulating multiple light sources on a 3D model. And neither console is likely to approach its maximum operations/second anytime soon.

mikeszekely-

You basically said the same thing I said, except you elaborated which I didn't feel you could handle such big words. Here is a cookie. ANYWAYS, stop skirting aroung the facts, brother. The PS3 has a WHOLE LOT MORE shaders which means the games will look a lot better, even without maxing out anytime soon.

By the time TVs with 1080p support are in the majority of houses, and by the time that software developers use 1080p as a standard, both the Xbox 360 and the PS3 will have been replaced. How's that for thinking of the future?

Let fill you in on a little fact Einstein. HD sales have started to pick up significantly this year, so the future of HD is approaching sooner that you know, so wake up and smell reality. I am personally getting a set early next year.....oh wait, that's when the PS3 comes out. WOW, what a coincidence. I thought the future was so many years away. If you can't afford one, don't pass it off as "the future is so far away".

Even though I'm actually pulling for Blu-Ray, why should I accept it as the future when that hasn't even been decided? The PS3 is using Blu-Ray because that's Sony's format. But if HD-DVD wins out, or if a hybrid format is accepted as the new standard, the PS3 won't be playing movies on the format anytime soon anyway.

Don't think SONY is stupid. They will release the PS3 on blue-ray if there is no standard. If a standard is agreed upon, then the PS3 will come with that instead. It;s not very diificult to swap drives, Sherlock.

Are you so sure Sony is willing to eat costs? As far as I know, although I'll bet JB0 knows for sure, only the Xbox was consistantly sold at a loss. And while people are still predicting a price close to $300 for the Xbox 360 (and I'll bet even less for the Revolution), the Mainichi Daily News reported that Sony is planning to sell the PS3 at 50,000 yen... about $470.

Yes, I am certain. All consoles have sold at cost or below when they debut. SONY is no exception. What the companies do, is figure out a way to produce them cheaper (and smaller) down the road and recup their costs. The bucks are in the games anyway, so it's just the old razor and razor blade game. For the last time. the PS3 will not cost $500.00 you lemming. The Mainichi Daily News DID NOT say that. They said that it would cost U-N-D-E-R $500.00. Get your facts straight.

I highly doubt it. Even my unemployed brother has a stand alone DVD player. I'd say, with some confidence, that people who use their consoles as their primary or sole DVD player are an extreme minority.

Who cares about your brother. He does not represent the USA. In fact, you really need to think before you post. It is a fact that DVD disc sales jumped dramatically after the PS2 launched because at that time, it was the cheapest DVD player on the marker. People bought it because it was a DVD player and a next gen console.

Guess what, smacktard? Metal Gear Solid 3 is on a single layer DVD. Feel free to throw your copy into a computer and analyze it with DVD Decrypter, if you don't believe me. If running out of space was really an issue for Kojima, why didn't they simply use a dual-layer DVD? Likewise, if they'd run out of space for extras, how is it that they're are, in fact, releasing a Substance version with extras? 99% of the games developed today are on single-layer DVDs. Despite your erroneous claims to the contrary, it is a fact that most games do not even come close to taking up the full 9GB provided by a dual-layer DVD.

smacktard? Is that how you react when you are being shot down and put away? How immature. Regardless, I will continue to school you. Hideo Kojima dod in fact make that statement. WHhy did he not go with a dual layer format? Who cares but he didn't and did run out of space. He has his reasons and he is not the first to say this. The fact is that, deveopers are running out of space and they DO need discs that hold more room without having to multi layer. Games will only get more complex and require a hell of a lot more space which DVD's will not be able to deliver. Blue ray is the answer.

Try unplugging something when you're not using it. Even assuming that I'm going to play a game online with a mouse and keyboard, and I want to use voice chat instead of typing messages... well, the headset plugs into the controller on the 360, so that still leaves you with a free USB port. I mean, seriously, if you can come up with a reason why you'd actually need to simultaneously use all six USB ports on the PS3, I'll concede this argument.

Don't give me that weak $hit man. unplug it. Is that what you do when you run out of plugs in an outlet. Sure we are talking about something else but you get my point. Why do you thing that newer computers have more and more USB ports and the like compared to older computers. They are a must. The same holds true for consoles. They are turning into media centers that you will be able to merge your digital and Internet lifestyle to. You will use it for many devices, like cameras, psp, mic's, keyboards, etc...... Multiple ports will be a must and unplugging them is a moronic solution unless you don't have a digital lifestyle and that means you are old.

The future of multiplayer isn't trying to split a screen seven ways and trying to get six people to come over to play at the same time. Microsoft already proved that the future of mulitplayer is online.

Do you know what the future holds? No? Then shut up and stop trying to pretend that you do. I sure don't but SONY is trying to and it's better to be ready than to not be ready. Oh and that statement that MS proved that the future of mulitplayer is online. That is a bunch of bs and you know it. Did you know that out of all Xbox live accounts, only 20% of those members are actually online for more than 4 hours a week. That hardly shows that onlime gaming is the future. It might be there on day but right now, online gaming and communities are at their infancy and nobody knows what tomorrow will bring.

Bottom line is that PS3 owners have generic sequels to franchises past their prime, like Tekken 6 and Gran Turismo 5, to look forward to. At least the Xbox 360 is getting Perfect Dark Zero and hopefully more fresh content from BioWare.

Generic sequels? Try best selling sequels to established and best selling franchises. They also have a lot of fresh content out there, so don't even go there. PS3 had back to back killer demos being shown, of which Killzone 2 was the best game at E3, hands down and the only thing that impressed me out of the Xbox360 was Gears of war. HEH!!!

So the best demos and in-development games look better for the PS3 than the best demos and in-development games for the Xbox 360. That means nothing until we see finished games running on finished hardware.

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please wait while I run out of my house and loose a lung laughing outloud. A demo running on a development kit gives a sense of how the end will will eventually turn out. Microsoft is getting ready to launch the Xbox360 and those demos are pretty close to completion. Well, they pale in comparrison to the PS3 demo's which have only been in development for less than 2 months and they still have at least 8 months to go. PS3 had no playable games at E3 because they are all early in development but MS had plenty of Xbxo360 games that were playable which means that they are farther along and the PS3 demos looked better. What does that tell you??????????

To be honest with you, I saw MS mostly talking and talking and talking about Xbox live and the community and not so much about the superiority of their games. SONY, on the other hand, walked the walk and showed us the future of gaming. Remember, that in the end, it's about the games and MS is not really getting it. Nintendo gets it but that is a whole other story.

p.s. Look at the poll above. Hmmmm........sure looks like PS3 is in the lead BY A LOT!!!!!! This is only a small indicator of things to come.

"Live in you world. Play in ours"

For the record, you are probably one of the biggest hypocrits I've ever encountered. mikeszekely calls you a smacktard, you come back with calling him a lemming, and then you question him as to how he reacts to being shotdown and so forth. You've OBVIOUSLY reacted the same way. You also asked if mikeszekely knows what the future holds, then told him to shutup. The following was quite a laugh: "The fact is that, deveopers are running out of space and they DO need discs that hold more room without having to multi layer. Games will only get more complex and require a hell of a lot more space which DVD's will not be able to deliver. Blue ray is the answer." Then you say: "Do you know what the future holds? No? Then shut up and stop trying to pretend that you do." So how exactly do you know what the future holds? How do you know that developers for the next 5 years (standard console life) will need the holding capactiy of a Blu-Ray disc? Do you know the future? Please think before you speak, or in this case type.

Now to get back on topic...sorta. As for the shaders thing, I honestly don't think the XBox has been used to it's full potential. With that being said, what makes you think the next-gen consoles will use all of their resources to it's fullest? And just because one system has more shaders than the other doesn't necessarily mean a better looking game. It's all how the shaders are used and how many of them are used...duh. I'm sure you knew that though. So that makes any argument there, about the PS3 having more shaders, moot. As for your "swap drives" comment: it may not be difficult to replace drives, but I'm sure it's very expensive to do so. ...And just because the PS3 is leading this poll doesn't mean that XBox is doomed. You forget that MS has billions upon billions of dollars. They will throw money out for the XBox 360, just like they did with the XBox...and look at where the XBox stands now? It put Nintendo (a company that's been in the console gaming industry longer than Sony or MS) in 3rd place. Anything is possible...or do you really know what the future is like? o.O

[Duke Togo]

I nominate this this thread for "Fayest Thread Ever on MacrossWorld". Fayest as in REALLY F'IN GAY.

I'm getting sunburn its so flaming.

[Max Jenius]

And if you're not a PS3 fanboy, what makes mikeszekely an XBox fanboy?

Just for the record; I'm a self-proclaimed Nintendo fanboy. Nothing I say is too out there though.

[Max Jenius]

I nominate this this thread for "Fayest Thread Ever on MacrossWorld". Fayest as in REALLY F'IN GAY.

I'm getting sunburn its so flaming.

I figured it was a Man-Faye reference.

On another note - Just because MS has boatloads of cash, doesn't mean they'll drop it all for the XBox. However, MS is VERY comfortable and if need be they can fix many problems by simply throwing money at them.

[Oihan]

And if you're not a PS3 fanboy, what makes mikeszekely an XBox fanboy?

Just for the record; I'm a self-proclaimed Nintendo fanboy. Nothing I say is too out there though.

Haha. I'm still looking to buy a CG, only for the new Zelda, Smash Brothers, and Mario Kart games. I still have my original NES, SNES, N64, and GB. I think the N64 is what killed it for me though.

On a side note, I really liked the PSX, but the PS2 didn't really have anything that appealed to me. Only things I can think of is the Macross game and FFX. I'm still glad that I went with the XBox instead this time around (Halo and Conker). I'll probably get all three next-gen consoles, for they all seem to be backwards compatible...we'll see.

[Duke Togo]

You know what's going to be funny... the PS2 will be outselling the Xbox 360 when its released.

[ewilen]

The PS3 will blow the XBox 360 away in technical capabilities, but reports are that MS has done a better job so far with the online gaming human interface. That shouldn't be too hard to fix, though.

Also, I hate Microsoft. Assuming MS sells theirs at a loss, like they did with the Xbox, I'd be tempted to buy several thousand and dump them in the sea, or turn them into Linux servers. (That also assumes I have unlimited cash.)

But I'm not going to spend $400+ on a console, so it's unlikely I'll buy any of them in the short term.

Edited May 21, 2005 by ewilen

[MGREXX]

mikeszekely-

You obviously have run out of counter points as seen by your last post. It is filled with half hearted attempts, foolishness and lies.

It is better to have the technology available than to not have it. So if you insist of defendign the Xbox360 which uses old technology like DVD's and the sort, then that's you loss. I will take the Blue Ray and bluetooth anyday. Nuff said.

I am speaking of America so stop mentioning Japan, although the statistics are very similar.

Hey, don't envy my intellectual prowess, It's not my fault that I actually finished High School and went to a real college.

Yep. Games may (or may not) cost $60 in the next gen. Gamestop was also saying that DS games would cost $40 for awhile.

Ummmm........a LOT of DS games do cost $40.00, you dope. And you called me a moron??????

The PS3 and Xbox will both come out at $299.00 so stop it with PS3 being more expensive. There is no way it will reatil for anything close to $500.00. The sweet spot does not lie, as it has been proven and tested by those in the know.

School is over. Go home and get some E-J-A-M-A-C-A-T-I-O-N.

P.S. I have a life and a career, so don't get upset because I don't waste my life away on this site.

JBO-

FACT!!!!!!!!!!

EVERY CONSOLE SINCE THE PS1 HAS SOLD AT COST OR UNDER COST. IT'S A NECESSARY EVIL OF THE GAMING INDUSTRY, YET IT IS TOLERATED BECAUSE SOFTWARE SALES MORE THAN MAKE UP FOR IT.

Quit citing Japan as indicative of the world. It's true that IN JAPAN it was the cheapest DVD player, and that IN JAPAN DVD sales rose sharply with the PS2's release. In point of fact, IN JAPAN PS2 software wasn't selling at launch, just decks and movies. But all of this was IN JAPAN, not the world as a whole.

IN AMERICA, I had a 100$ DVD player hooked to my TV before the PS2 even launched in Japan, much less the US.

Now drop the whole "PS2 was a cheap DVD player" bullshit.

Stop confusing me with mikeszekely, that's not cool. As for the rest of your nonesense, I don't consider cheap, low grade third world consumer electronics as legitimate product lines.

Buy a 5$ hub, you cheap fool.

I rather not buy extra crap just because a company can't get their $hit straight and give me a decent systems with everything I need out of the box. I am not falling for MicroSofts BS by having to buy a DVD remote to play movies and having to pay them BS monthly fees to go online. Sorry. penny wise, pound foolish.

It tells ME that Sony's doing what they did with the PS2. Firing up a render farm and churning out animations that match what they CLAIM the PS3 can do.

You're falsely implying that Sony had demos running on devkits. All they had was some videos looping. The XBox 360 demos were real, playable software.

Do not blame SONY for their past, since they are not the only ones. INstead embrase them, for they will give us all the PS3, which owned E3 and will lead the TRUE next genereation of consoles which begins next spring, not this November.

Sure, most of the PS3 games were videos of GAMES IN DEVELOPMENT running in real time. The game running on the Unreal 3 engine was actually of a development kit and they proved it by pausing it and spining the camera around. How much proof do you need than that because that game also kicked some serious a$$. Only clueless Xbox fanboy retards will go to any lengths to defend an overrated system who is doomed to failure. They are doomed to playing so-so games and buying stuff on the Xbox live online marketplace.

I, on the other hand will be buisy palting the real next gen games.

Edited May 21, 2005 by MGREXX

[Oihan]

To those that hate MS. I used to hate them as well. But when I came to terms with everything, I use Windows XP Pro, Microsoft Office XP Pro, and I have an XBox. I can't say I have any complaints with either of the three...so I can't really hate MS anymore. I can honestly say that I've never seen XP crash on me once, I use Word all the time...and there's Conker and Halo on the XBox.... Though...the only thing about MS that I REALLY dislike is Internet Explorer. I hate having to keep it around just so I can see IE only web pages...so gay. On a side note, I got XP Pro and Office XP Pro for free....so again I can't really complain. I hope all three systems do very well. It'd suck to see one them go down the path Sega took.

[Oihan]

mikeszekely-

You obviously have run out of counter points as seen by your last post. It is filled with half hearted attempts, foolishness and lies.

It is better to have the technology available than to not have it. So if you insist of defendign the Xbox360 which uses old technology like DVD's and the sort, then that's you loss. I will take the Blue Ray and bluetooth anyday. Nuff said.

I am speaking of America so stop mentioning Japan, although the statistics are very similar.

Hey, don't envy my intellectual prowess, It's not my fault that I actually finished High School and went to a real college.

Yep. Games may (or may not) cost $60 in the next gen. Gamestop was also saying that DS games would cost $40 for awhile.

Ummmm........a LOT of DS games do cost $40.00, you dope. And you called me a moron??????

The PS3 and Xbox will both come out at $299.00 so stop it with PS3 being more expensive. There is no way it will reatil for anything close to $500.00. The sweet spot does not lie, as it has been proven and tested by those in the know.

School is over. Go home and get some E-J-A-M-A-C-A-T-I-O-N.

P.S. I have a life and a career, so don't get upset because I don't waste my life away on this site.

JBO-

FACT!!!!!!!!!!

EVERY CONSOLE SINCE THE PS1 HAS SOLD AT COST OR UNDER COST. IT'S A NECESSARY EVIL OF THE GAMING INDUSTRY, YET IT IS TOLERATED BECAUSE SOFTWARE SALES MORE THAN MAKE UP FOR IT.

Quit citing Japan as indicative of the world. It's true that IN JAPAN it was the cheapest DVD player, and that IN JAPAN DVD sales rose sharply with the PS2's release. In point of fact, IN JAPAN PS2 software wasn't selling at launch, just decks and movies. But all of this was IN JAPAN, not the world as a whole.

IN AMERICA, I had a 100$ DVD player hooked to my TV before the PS2 even launched in Japan, much less the US.

Now drop the whole "PS2 was a cheap DVD player" bullshit.

Stop confusing me with mikeszekely, that's not cool. As for the rest of your nonesense, I don't consider cheap, low grade third world consumer electronics as legitimate product lines.

Buy a 5$ hub, you cheap fool.

I rather not buy extra crap just because a company can't get their $hit straight and give me a decent systems with everything I need out of the box. I am not falling for MicroSofts BS by having to buy a DVD remote to play movies and having to pay them BS monthly fees to go online. Sorry. penny wise, pound foolish.

It tells ME that Sony's doing what they did with the PS2. Firing up a render farm and churning out animations that match what they CLAIM the PS3 can do.

You're falsely implying that Sony had demos running on devkits. All they had was some videos looping. The XBox 360 demos were real, playable software.

Do not blame SONY for their past, since they are not the only ones. INstead embrase them, for they will give us all the PS3, which owned E3 and will lead the TRUE next genereation of consoles which begins next spring, not this November.

Sure, most of the PS3 games were videos of GAMES IN DEVELOPMENT running in real time. The game running on the Unreal 3 engine was actually of a development kit and they proved it by pausing it and spining the camera around. How much proof do you need than that because that game also kicked some serious a$$. Only clueless Xbox fanboy retards will go to any lengths to defend an overrated system who is doomed to failure. They are doomed to playing so-so games and buying stuff on the Xbox live online marketplace.

I, on the other hand will be buisy palting the real next gen games.

Do you ever pay attention to what you're typing? Stop taking everything so personally, resolving to personal attacks against mikeszekely, sheesh. I still don't think you realize that the demos for the XBox 360 were running on the Alpha systems...meaning that they were using 1/3 of it's full potential. You automatically assume that Sony has won the war, predicting the future...and yet you tell mikeszekely to shut up cause he 'predicts' what's going to happen. Ask yourself this: How is it that Nintendo (a company that has been in this business longer than Sony and MS) is being rated as 3rd in the console wars? What makes you think what happened to Nintendo won't happen to Sony?

[Noyhauser]

Actually oihan, its clear that the xbox 360 will not have as powerful CPU as the PS3. IBM will produce chips for both systems, and they have stated that Microsoft's chip is a less advanced version of the PS3's chip. Also its not a cell chip either, which really is that revolutionary in its design. The Toshiba/IBM/Sony chip will actually suprass Moore's law when introduced.

[mikeszekely]

You obviously have run out of counter points as seen by your last post. It is filled with half hearted attempts, foolishness and lies.

No, but you've described yourself fairly accurately. I haven't lied about anything. I've offered eduated opinions as an unbiased gamer for why I think the Xbox 360 seems to be the most interesting new console at this point, and provided facts to to back them up. You've offered nothing but Sony's hype for the PS3.

It is better to have the technology available than to not have it. So if you insist of defendign the Xbox360 which uses old technology like DVD's and the sort, then that's you loss.

New technology is great... once it's been proven to be commercially viable. And while I do think that Blu-Ray is looking more promising than HD-DVD, the matter far from settled, especially with the third option of a hybrid format. The only thing that Sony may have accomplished by using Blu-Ray in the PS3 is to wind up with a proprietary media for the PS3, and for what? Extra space that's unlikely to be utilized even during the next generation. And before you go into a rant about how I don't know what I'm talking about and how I can't know that games in the future won't be enormous, I'll point out that games haven't really gotten much bigger during this generation from the previous. The PSone had games that spanned multiple CDs, and the PS2 has games being released on CDs to this very day (Lego Star Wars is a CD-ROM). 99% of the games out there don't even go onto the second layer of a DVD.

If Blu-Ray had been selected as the next standard for movies, it'd be a different story. For now, all Sony is doing is jumping the gun.

I am speaking of America so stop mentioning Japan, although the statistics are very similar.

See, you're calling me a liar, but you're the one that posts junk like this. I worked in electronics through college, and I sold plenty of DVD players, well before the PS2 was released. By the time the PS2 was released, we were selling one DVD player for $88, and the DVD market was in full swing. I'll stop pointing out that the PS2 was only a significant boost to the DVD market in Japan when you stop making up facts.

Hey, don't envy my intellectual prowess, It's not my fault that I actually finished High School and went to a real college. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Don't worry, MGREXX. No one's envying your "intellectual prowess."

For the record, I graduated with honors from high school with a 3.8, and I got my BA in International Studies, 3.4.

Ummmm........a LOT of DS games do cost $40.00, you dope. And you called me a moron??????

A handful of games from EA and Activision, the two companies who believe they are entiled to more. They'd be the same companies who are asking for $50 for PSP games and want to charge $60 for next-gen games. Their few DS games and PSP games aren't indicative of the average prices for DS games and PSP games, yet before those respective systems were released, Gamestop.com was listing MOST DS games for $40 and MOST PSP games for $50... just to be on the safe side.

Bottom line: just because they're listed for $60 now doesn't mean the majority of the next gen games will retail for that much.

The PS3 and Xbox will both come out at $299.00 so stop it with PS3 being more expensive. There is no way it will reatil for anything close to $500.00. The sweet spot does not lie, as it has been proven and tested by those in the know.

I'm not arguing the effectiveness of the sweet spot... that's why Microsoft will shoot for it, losses be damned. But the PS3? Well, I'm not going to pretend to know the final US retail price, and I'll certainly be happy with a $300 PS3, the fact remains that it almost certainly will retail for damn near $500 in Japan. And at this stage in the game, with the PS2 in more homes than the Xbox and Gamecube combined, yeah, I do figure Sony is arrogant enough to charge more for the PS3. And why not? People like you would most likely buy it anyway, for the PlayStation name.

JBO-

FACT!!!!!!!!!!

EVERY CONSOLE SINCE THE PS1 HAS SOLD AT COST OR UNDER COST. IT'S A NECESSARY EVIL OF THE GAMING INDUSTRY, YET IT IS TOLERATED BECAUSE SOFTWARE SALES MORE THAN MAKE UP FOR IT.

Definately NOT a fact. And you have the gall to call me a liar? You're constantly making up "facts" to go alone with your arguments, in this thread and others. The Xbox is the only console so far that has consistantly sold at a loss.

Do not blame SONY for their past, since they are not the only ones. INstead embrase them, for they will give us all the PS3, which owned E3 and will lead the TRUE next genereation of consoles which begins next spring, not this November.

If you want to believe in Sony's hype machine, go right ahead. You seem content enough as a Sony fanboy. But I'm not going to consider movies that may or may not be possible on the final hardware indicative of the actual games, regardless of whether or not they're real-time rendered.

For the record, I'm also going to take the hype around the cell with a grain of salt. The Emotion Engine in the PS2 was just as hyped, and we all see what THAT'S capable of.

[MGREXX]

mikeszekely-

Don't worry, MGREXX. No one's envying your "intellectual prowess."

For the record, I graduated with honors from high school with a 3.8, and I got my BA in International Studies, 3.4.

Talk to me when you get your Master's.

Definately NOT a fact. And you have the gall to call me a liar? You're constantly making up "facts" to go alone with your arguments, in this thread and others. The Xbox is the only console so far that has consistantly sold at a loss.

IT IS A WIDELY KNOWN FACT.

Look at this and lern something:

Link #1

link #2

Link #3

Link #4

Need I say more? Cosloe manufacturers either break even or loose money on their initial hardware sales. Now just accept it and lets move on.

I am not believing any hype. I saw the system, the specs, the demo's and videos of actual gameplay and I am convinced that it is going to kick Xbox360's a$$. The facts are there, you just have to accept them for what they are, instead of hiding behind conspiracys and SONY hatemongering.

You know what, I take it that we are going to have to agree to disagree because it's obvious that you won't accept the truth. Too bad but come spring 2006, you will see the light.

Edited May 21, 2005 by MGREXX

[Jawjaw]

Well, I pretty much hate Microsoft. By trade, I am a programmer and end up using a lot of their products by default everyday. I could go on and on with the things their products do that tick me off. I don't really like Sony either but that is a different story.

Either way, if there are awesome games for the 360 or PS3, that is all that matters for me. From what I've seen, the 360 doesn't look leaps and bounds better than the current XBox. I like the idea of a multimedia hub but don't know if I really would use it like that. The PS3 looks more next gen and more focused on games. But you really don't know how anything is going to sort out until you can actually see real games on one.

[MGREXX]

Amen brother.

Have faith that SONY will deliver once more. SONY stands for quality.

It is truly the only next genereation system.

[Druna Skass]

Actually oihan, its clear that the xbox 360 will not have as powerful CPU as the PS3. IBM will produce chips for both systems, and they have stated that Microsoft's chip is a less advanced version of the PS3's chip. Also its not a cell chip either, which really is that revolutionary in its design. The Toshiba/IBM/Sony chip will actually suprass Moore's law when introduced.

So you're telling me the PS3's chip is the Gundam and the 360's chip is the GM?

[Druna Skass]

Amen brother.

Have faith that SONY will deliver once more. SONY stands for quality.

It is truly the only next genereation system.

Only reason I'm supporting Sony is that of the three, they're the only ones who haven't really pissed me off...

[mikeszekely]

Talk to me when you get your Master's.

At this point, I seriously doubt that you actually have a Master's. Unless, of course, they give those out from clown colleges.

One exception, Lin said, may be Sony and its PlayStation 2 gaming system, which he said was close to breakeven after initially costing about $450 per unit to build. Sony launched the PlayStation 2 in late October last year.

This is from one of the links that you so gleefully posted as backing up your arguments. Mind you, that article was written before the Xbox even came out. It took Sony a year to stop losing money on the hardware. (Ironically, two of the links have articles about how the Xbox loses money and about how releasing Slim has helped Sony to further reduce the cost of the PS2).

So again, the keyword is "consistantly." Of the three current-gen consoles, only the Xbox was consistantly sold below cost.

I saw the system, the specs, the demo's and videos of actual gameplay

Sony's demos are not videos of actual gameplay.

The facts are there, you just have to accept them for what they are, instead of hiding behind conspiracys and SONY hatemongering.

This is not a conspiracy. Sony has a habit of showing technical demos that their hardware is actually incapable of once it's actually out on the market. Believing that the PS3 will kick ass just because it's Sony and they say it will kick ass, and believing that videos created on hardware that's similar to the PS3's is indicative of actual gameplay is believing hype.

And as for the hatemongering comment, did you already forget that I have a library of over 100 PS2 games? Not buying into Sony's hype machine and considering that a console besides a Sony-branded console might actually be more fun this time around is NOT hatemongering.

Amen brother.

Have faith that SONY will deliver once more. SONY stands for quality.

It is truly the only next genereation system.

For someone who claims not to be a Sony fanboy, you sure are preaching the PS3 like it's a new religion. Would you also be offended to know that I have a Panasonic TV? Or that I think Samsung makes better cell phones than Sony Ericsson?

Edited May 21, 2005 by mikeszekely

[Max Jenius]

At this point, I seriously doubt that you actually have a Master's.  Unless, of course, they give those out from clown colleges.

Don't forget Barber college..

But seriously, this is getting a little too heated between you guys. Both of you please stop with the snide remarks and stick to the issue. MGREXX, just because you claim to have a Master's degree doesn't make your arguments hold any more water. Your last post was worthless, so I deleted it. Retype it sticking TO THE ISSUE. MZ, please don't resort to name-calling. Little jokes here and there are fine, but when they become points of debate its really stupid.

[Zentrandude]

Talk to me when you get your Master's.

At this point, I seriously doubt that you actually have a Master's. Unless, of course, they give those out from clown colleges.

it could be one of those "honorary masters" some colleges give out to ummm "special" people.

shame he got a custom title. cmon make mine "evil and proud of it" don't make me assault the world with a spice girl or micheal bolton cd.

Edited May 22, 2005 by Zentrandude

[JB0]

It is better to have the technology available than to not have it. So if you insist of defendign the Xbox360 which uses old technology like DVD's and the sort, then that's you loss. I will take the Blue Ray and bluetooth anyday. Nuff said.

I hope BluRay fails just to spite you.

That's why everyone else is sticking with DVD. It's not even being used to half capacity most of the time, and no one wants to be stuck on the wrong end of the format wars.

I am speaking of America so stop mentioning Japan, although the statistics are very similar.

Not really.

The stats are very diffrent in many cases, and you seem to be using the japanese statistics.

Hey, don't envy my intellectual prowess, It's not my fault that I actually finished High School and went to a real college.      

You REALLY need to do something with your life.

You derive far too much joy out of mentioning your diploma.

JBO-

FACT!!!!!!!!!!

EVERY CONSOLE SINCE THE PS1 HAS SOLD AT COST OR UNDER COST.  IT'S A NECESSARY EVIL OF THE GAMING INDUSTRY, YET IT IS TOLERATED BECAUSE SOFTWARE SALES MORE THAN MAKE UP FOR IT.

That's an urban myth, perpetuated by the PS1/Saturn price wars. People just couldn't believe that 2 systems that launched at 500 could still turn a profit at 200.

And they were half-right. One system couldn't.

But the Saturn was an ANOMALY. Not the norm.

The argument has about as much validity as "*insert system here* spins the disk backwards so it can't be copied."

It's idiot fanboys quoting a "fact" that they made up to fit their preconcieved beliefs.

Quit citing Japan as indicative of the world. It's true that IN JAPAN it was the cheapest DVD player, and that IN JAPAN DVD sales rose sharply with the PS2's release. In point of fact, IN JAPAN PS2 software wasn't selling at launch, just decks and movies. But all of this was IN JAPAN, not the world as a whole.

IN AMERICA, I had a 100$ DVD player hooked to my TV before the PS2 even launched in Japan, much less the US.

Now drop the whole "PS2 was a cheap DVD player" bullshit.

Stop confusing me with mikeszekely, that's not cool. As for the rest of your nonesense, I don't consider cheap, low grade third world consumer electronics as legitimate product lines.

But you'll buy Playstations?

Oh, the hypocrisy.

Anyways, regardless of what price level a DVD player has to be before you'll consider it as actually existing, the fact remains that outside of Japan DVD had pretty much taken over from VHS well before the PS2 launch.

Buy a 5$ hub, you cheap fool.

I rather not buy extra crap just because a company can't get their $hit straight and give me a decent systems with everything I need out of the box. I am not falling for MicroSofts BS by having to buy a DVD remote to play movies and having to pay them BS monthly fees to go online. Sorry. penny wise, pound foolish.

Why would you want to play mvoies with a game console anyways?

As for the "BS monthly fees"... SOMEONE has to cover the costs of the servers. Bandwidth ain't free. Neither is hardware.

It tells ME that Sony's doing what they did with the PS2. Firing up a render farm and churning out animations that match what they CLAIM the PS3 can do.

You're falsely implying that Sony had demos running on devkits. All they had was some videos looping. The XBox 360 demos were real, playable software.

Do not blame SONY for their past, since they are not the only ones.

Tehy're far and away the worst about it.

INstead embrase them, for they will give us all the PS3, which owned E3 and will lead the TRUE next genereation of consoles which begins next spring, not this November.

You mean embrace them because they gave us a bunch of blind fanboys incapable of seeing anything other than what Sony tells them to.

Sure, most of the PS3 games were videos of GAMES IN DEVELOPMENT running in real time.  The game running on the Unreal 3 engine was actually of a development kit and they proved it by pausing it and spining the camera around.  How much proof do you need than that because that game also kicked some serious a$$. 

They did it with FF cutscenes for the PS2 too. But there wasn't a PS2.

Real-time doesn't mean it's on the hardware they claim it is.

Only clueless Xbox fanboy retards will go to any lengths to defend an overrated system who is doomed to failure.  They are doomed to playing so-so games and buying stuff on the Xbox live online marketplace.    

I, on the other hand will be buisy palting the real next gen games.

Only clueless Sony fans would type that sort of drivel.

[JB0]

Amen brother.

Have faith that SONY will deliver once more. SONY stands for quality.

It is truly the only next genereation system.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Turn it upside down and it'll work."

"Unplug it when you aren't using it, or it'l quit working."

"DISK READ ERROR"

Enough said.

[Zentrandude]

eww what happen? this is turning into those insanely retarded comments you see in megagames. For all is unholy lock this thread.

give me custom title from my last post Russia already surrendered to me when they saw the spice girl cd being inserted into my cd player.