Which CONSOLE!?

[JB0]

Don't be fooeld by Xbox360's 3 3.2GHZ processors. This is misleading, just like what ATARI tried to do with their jaguar multi processor Bull$hit specs. More processors don't necessarily make the machine faster or better.

What the Jaguar did (like what the Dreamcast did) was to claim to have a certain bit processor, when they actually had two half-bit processors. I forget the Jaguar's numbers, but in the case of the Dreamcast, they claimed 128-bit with two 64 bit processors. And as you can see, the Dreamcast was more powerful than the 64-bit N64... damn near the true 128-bit PS2.

The bait! I MUST NOW REPLY!

Jaguar claimed to be 64-bit.

And in point of fact, two of it's five processors(spread across three chips) ARE 64-bit.

It has a 16-bit 68k(intended for bootstrapping and IO processing, only capable of reading 16-bits of the bus at a time),

a pair of identical general-purpose 32-bit RISC cores(one in Tom{designated for central processing}, one in Jerry{designated the digital signal processor, and intended for audio work}, though only the one in Tom can read all 64 bits of the bus at once, due to the limitations of the Jerry chip, whcih can only "see" 32 bits at a time),

and two 64-bit processors in Tom, both of which are intended for graphics work(the blitter and object processor are both fully programmable general-purpose processors).

Interesting aspect to the Jaguar is that there's very little hard-wired into the system. While all processors had recommended uses, that didn't mean you had to do it.

You CAN use the "blitter" as your main processor should you desire. You can even have everything running on the 68k, and totally ignore the other 4 processors completely(many titles, particularly SNES/Genesis ports, did exactly this). All 5 processors can access everything on the system.

The hardware is totally, completely, utterly insane.

The argument for the Jaguar being 64-bits ultimately rests in the system bus. Most systems have a central processor(or in multi-processor systems, several identical chips) responsible for all system activity, which aside from being the logical measure of "bittage," defines the system bus.

The Jaguar has no true central processor, and the system bus is 64-bits to ensure it's wide enough to accomodate all the devices on the system(graphics chip Tom specifically). So they count the bus width.

Ultimately, however, trying to classify the Jaguar's "bittage" is futile and will leave you with nothing but a headache(so it's a good thing bittage doesn't really matter).

And the Dreamcast is a single-processor system. I think you're thinking of the TG16, which had 2 8-bit processors, but a single 16-bit graphics chipset.

DC IS in a similar boat in one respect, however.

While it had a single 64-bit CPU(or 32, I've seen conflicting data on the SH-4, and think it might depend on which specific variant you use, as well as where you count the "bittage"), the graphics chipset was 128-bit, and they claimed the GPU bittage(I believe both companies were careful to say that it was x-bit graphics, not an x-bit system, though I could be mistaken{it's very possible NEC was thinking 8+8=16}).

Other oddities: Saturn has 3 32-bit processors(2 of which are SH-2 CPUs, one of which is an SH-1 intended for CD drive operation) and a 16-bit one(68k variant intended for sound hardware control). If I recall, at least one SH-2 MUST be used for central processing or the system no workie, and all CD access has to go through the SH-1.

NeoGeo and CPS2 both have a 16-bit CPU(68000) and 8-bit sound processor(Z80). SNK advertised the home version of the NeoGeo as a 24-bit system, because it was 8+16.

A fully tricked out Genesis has 2 32-bit SH-2 processors in the 32x, a 16-bit 68000 and 8-bit Z80 in the base Genesis, and another 16-bit 68000 in the SegaCD. And which one/s is/are in command depends on what software you're running, from the Z80(Master System software) through the twin SH-2s(32x). The base Genesis is at least clear enough. In Genesis mode, the 68k is the CPU, and in Master System mode, the Z80 is the CPU(and the 68k is offline)

The Intellivision, despite being pre-NES, uses a 16-bit processor(name forgotten). A 16-bit chip that takes 10-bit instructions, no less. Figure that one out.

The XBox, while bieng hte most powerful current-gen system, uses a 32-bit CPU.

Bottom line... bits are meaningless, and not just because no one's ever defined hat "bittage" is.

Long as I'm here, I'll provide commentary on the rest...

Bottom line... three 3.2GHz processors might not be the same as having one 9.6GHz processor, but it's still more powerful than a single 3.2GHz processor.  Don't pretend it's not just because you're a Sony fanboy.

For what it's worth, the big bottleneck comes at RAM access, if I recall. Multiple devices usually can't access RAM at the same time, so they don't screw each other's work up.

100 billion shaders vs Xbox360's mere 48 billion.

How many shader operations per second do you need? Do you even know what that means?

Shhhhh, you'll make his head hurt.

Fact(?): The Xbox 360 has licensed BLAST PROCESSING!* from Sega.

*Actually, I defend blast processing as clever marketing to communicate the superiority of the Genesis CPU to a market that thought 68000 was the appropriate # of beers to drink at a frat party, and megahertz was what their head did the next morning. But it's still easy to make fun of.

The PS3 has less Video RAM but it's faster and better

It has a lot less. You don't need to be as fast (mind you, I didn't catch the PS3's speed, but the 360's is 700MHz) if you don't have to read and write from it as often.

Reminds me of the SNES/Genesis days, when Nintendo attempted to confuse the issue.

"SO Sega claims the Genesis is faster. Well how do we measure system speed? Sure their CPU runs faster, but our RAM runs faster. So see, it's hard to say which is better."

Yes, they actually claimed that. I still have the GamePro with the ad in it(2-page spread, designed to look like an impartial editorial column), though Althena herself would have trouble finding it.

It has Blueray which is the next standard in digital format. Why spend big bucks for a blue ray machine when they come out (or wait years for lower prices), when you can get one in the PS3 for a good price. Just look at the PS2. It was the cheapest DVD player around. Xbox 360 uses old DVD technology. Who really needs another DVD player?

I realize it's not a good habit to reply to one person's post while quoting another, but...

I owned a 100$ DVD player before the PS2 even hit the US market at 300.

Thank you.

It IS, however, true that the PS2 was the cheapest DVD player available IN JAPAN. That qualifier means a hell of a lot, as it restricts the statement to the small chain of islands where it was true.

Leaving that little qualifier off is a long-running thorn in my side.

As I pointed out at the beginning of the current generation during some all-too-common 'Cube bashing along the lines of "OMG IT AM NOT HAEVING TEH DVD PLAYAR IT AM SUX!!1111"...

"Sure the PS2 doubles as a DVD player. But you can buy a GameCube, a DVD player, AND a game for the same price as a PS2. And the standalone DVD player won't have the playback issues that the PS2 player has already become famous for."

Bottom line, games don't even take up a full dual-layer DVD.  Why add to the cost of a console to use a medium with more storage than you need?

Well, SO3 comes close... it's on 2 single-layer disks.

But other than that...

*shrugs*

Now let's talk input connector's:

PS3 has 6 USB slots while Xbox 360 only has 3.

PS3 has slots for Compac flash, SD media and Memory stick/Duo slots while Xbox 360 only has two slots for Xbox memory cards whicle only hold 64MB of RAM.

PS3 has 1 optical audio input while Xbox 360 has none.

So, you clearly have more flexibility and room to add you digital multimedia lifestyle onto the PS3.

It's a console, not a PC. I haven't found a use for the two USB ports on the PS2. Why the hell would I care that the PS3 has three more than the Xbox 360, then?

Either way... my PC has 2 hubs sticking off of it. 5$ solves the problem nicely.

As for the CF, SD, and Memory Stick slots, why do I need them in a console?  For multimedia?  You mean the same multimedia that I can stream wirelessly from a PC to the Xbox 360's harddrive?  If you really must use some form of flash memory, the Xbox 360 is supposed to support the USB card readers... including the PSP.  How's that for flexibility?

I have to defend the CF/SD/MemStick slots. I hate the proprietary flash RAM cards we've been stuck with since the PS1.

30$ for an 8 megabyte PS2 card is highway robbery.

And the sub-megabyte cards on the GameCube? GAH!

Now about the controllers. PS3 supports up to 7 of those via bluetooth. Xbox 360 only supports 4 via old fashioned 2.4GHZ technology. With a lot of home electronics using the 2.4GHZ, you are just asking for trouble.

When was the last time you played a 7 player game?

Addendum: With all 7 players seated at one machine.

While quite possible over TEH INTARWEB, it IS pretty absurd for a single-system setting.

Only valid use I can think of is the Silver Star Story bonus game "Lords of Lunar." If something else supported 8 players on the PS*(I can't use X as a variable? :'( ), I'd love to hear about it. Last I checked, 95% of titles didn't even support ONE multitap.

...

And personally, I don't think LoL worked with more than 4 players. Once you get past the 4 corner stations of the original Warlords, the whole gameplay setup gets seriously borked.

[cschell]

Now about the controllers.  PS3 supports up to 7 of those via bluetooth.  Xbox 360 only supports 4 via old fashioned 2.4GHZ technology.  With a lot of home electronics using the 2.4GHZ, you are just asking for trouble.

Bluetooth is 2.4 GHz technology. It's just a protocol definition for products to follow so that they can interoperate with one another, but it shares the 2.4 GHz ISM band with many of the other home (and other) electronics.

Just because Microsoft isn't using Bluetooth doesn't mean they will have problems. Their controllers are probably using some form of spread spectrum transmission protocol that will allow them to operate just fine in the typical home use 2.4 GHz environment.

Chad

[Graham]

Graham,

Do what I do and play games after the wife and kids are asleep. Sure, you get less sleep but at least you get to do both things. Works for me.

That's what I do anyway, but there's very few games that get me excited enough to want to play for more than an hour at a time. I'm not a big gamer and usually only buy 3-4 games a year max.

Graham

[wakobi]

Ahhh.... you gotta love Sony.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/615/615745p1.html

[MGREXX]

mikeszekely-

I am not a SONY fanboy but it appears that you are an apparent Xbox Fanboy who will not admit that the Xbox360 is inferior to the PS3.

What do I know about shaders......ALOT. Do you? I will keep it simple so that you understand. Shaders basically make games look more realistic.

3 3.2GHZ processors can't outperform one 3.2 GHZ processor with superior specs.

When 1080p is the standard, Xbox360 owners will be out of luck. You have to think about the future, insteado f building for the present. Same goes for blueray. It is the future and you have to accept it. Yes, I know that HD-DVD and Blue-ray are tring to avoind another "war" and pick one format, which would go on the PS3. Either way, the PS3 will have it and Xbox360 will have a measly DVD player. You might not use your console to play movies but the majority of owners out there do, myself included, so this is a very important feature.

Now you bring up a very misguided statement over and over whic hmust ne addressed right now. You keeo saying that current games don't take up a full dual layer DVD. Guess what........WRONG!!!!!!!!!!! Ask most producers and developers of the hottest games tha have come out recently about space. They complain that they just could not fit everything in a game because THEY RAN OUT OF SPACE. Case in point is MG3. Hideo Kojima said that he had to cut out a few scenes and features from the game because of a DISC SPACE SHORTAGE. Space is relative and there will never be too much space. As games get more realistic and feature rich, there will be need for more space.....and Blueray is the solution for the next generation of consloes......not DVD technology.

You say blue ray will be expensive to include and discs more expensiv to deveop for? Sure but SONY is willing to eat the costs if it means that blue ray discs start cathing on and they will eventually profit for it. It's all about supply and demand. Did you know that there is a stroy going around that the next gen of consloes might actually get consumers to start buying more HD sets. How is that for innovation. You buy a blue ray player and then you buy blue ray discs and then you buy a HD set to watch it all. Hmmm.....I think SONY did their homework and MS is asleep.

As for ports, if YOU don't use them then that's your problem because most people I know wish they had more ports. I use both of my PS2 USB ports to plug in a keyboard and my headset. See, I am all tapped out if I want to add something else. You need more ports and Xbox360 only has 3. Sorry, but that's just to few, especially since they are allowing you to connect all of your media to it. "sorry sir, only three allowed".

As for 7 controllers, you must once again think of the future of gaming. Sure, it seems weird now but what about in 3 years when a new franchise arrives?

What was the best PS3 demo? KillZone 2. It looked awsome. Even Unreal and fight night 3 looked sick. What about Xbox360? gears of war or Ghost 3? Is that their best? There is no comparison. The PS3 had the truly revolutionary and remarably better looking games, while Xbox360 had just better looking games compared to the original Xbox. IT is an Xbox 1.5 and not a true next gen console.

Bottom line is that the PS3 is overall superior to the Xbox360. The End.

[Zentrandude]

looks to me like your a sony fanboy, nothing wrong with it.

btw cutscenes blows wished game makers stop using them.

[MGREXX]

$435.00? Highly doubtful.

SONY is not stupid. There is a magic number for consoles and that number is $299.99

You go past that and you are looking for trouble, just ask SEGA or even better yet, 3DO. Trip Hawkings was a balsy nut job for his $700.00 price point.

SONY will eat the costs and release it for $299.00

Just look at the investors, when the PS2 was going to come out. They had figures from $299.00 to $500.00. Even the PSP was forecasted to come in at $300+.

I chalk this up to rumor and speculation because under 50,000 yen means under 50,000 yen, which would include the $299.99 price point

[Black Valkyrie]

I hate when people think or say of consoles or games in general just graphics, framerate and back ground. This really made me hate video games once and because of that I smahed my PS1.

As for me no matter what I say about Nintendo as fan it`s difficult to leave them, what ever mistakes/screwed up they did in the past.

For me this is good enough

[Gaijin]

I'd buy a PS3 tomorrow if I could. I'm impressed by the HDMI outputs, Blu-Ray, and the tech demos so far.

360...well, I'm not sure. Specs look good, if there is something that I want to try besides Halo, than maybe. Just don't see anything I'd want yet.

Nintendo: Too early to say, but prelim specs don't sound too good.

I think Sony had the strongest 'showing' this E3, which was surprising since Microsoft and pals have 6 months to ship...I was expecting to see more than what's appeared so far. Perfect Dark Zero a no show was a given since it looked like crap on the MTV special (why show people playing an unfinished game as part of a big public event like that?).

E3 is hype and that's what it's meant to generate. IMO, there seems to be more excitement in the Sony and Microsoft camps than Nintendo.

[Hubert]

i dont know yet. I dont care for the number of processors, their power, the memory or other things. I m waiting for the price in europe and the games.

revolution can read my game cube games ...

ps3 can read my old ps1 games...

there s still the new zelda for the game cube, i can still wait.

I bet in europe we ll have the next gen console in xmas 2006, at best.

wait&see.

[Chowser]

well, assuming both Xbox 360 and PS3 comes out at $299 or less, then my son will be buying the Xbox 360, while I'm responsible for getting the PS3..........who's going to buy the HDTV????? Maybe the wife....

[Roy's Blues]

PS3!

Mostly due to the backwards compatibility.

/still trying to beat armored core 1

[Bub]

I don't know.. It's so hard to choose with Agent ONE around. Hahaha!

[Ghadrack]

And just to chime in on the disc format stuff.

The arguement that current games are not filling dual layered DVD's is frankly a little silly. Many are pushing the limits and we are talking present generation games. The next gen games are going to take up exponentially more space as many many developers are already talking about the nightmarish costs associated with the increased graphic and programming demands that the newer, more graphically intensive systems require. I bet you that the PS3 games will be far beyond the capacity of Dual layer DVD's.

[Zor Primus]

Sadly my console days are either numbered or on extended hiatus. I have been playing online pc games for so long I don't even remember the last time I sat down to play my PS2. I never even finished FFX2

Between work, school and fiance my free gaming time is dedicated to World of Warcraft. If in the future I decide on the next gen console, it'll probably be Nintendo, fiance loves all those Zelda and Mario games hehe...

For me, I'd rather drop the cash on upgrading or building a new pc.

[mikeszekely]

I have to defend the CF/SD/MemStick slots. I hate the proprietary flash RAM cards we've been stuck with since the PS1.

30$ for an 8 megabyte PS2 card is highway robbery.

And the sub-megabyte cards on the GameCube? GAH!

JB0, I'm not arguing in favor of proprietary memory cards. If you have to use a memory card, I'd say go with CF on account of its sheer cheapness. But, why waste money on either if you can stream media wirelessly and store it on the supplied 20GB hard drive?

mikeszekely-

I am not a SONY fanboy but it appears that you are an apparent Xbox Fanboy who will not admit that the Xbox360 is inferior to the PS3.

Go to gamespot.com, look me up... same as my Macrossworld tag, and feel free to browse my collection. As of the time of this writing, I have 23 Xbox games, and 115 PS2 games... hardly the ratio you'd expect from an Xbox fanboy. I'm just not accepting out of hand that the PS3 is as far beyond the Xbox 360 as you seem to think, and not as willing to dismiss the Xbox 360 on account of the fact that the PS3 may be a bit more powerful. As a hardcore gamer since the days of the Odyssey, as someone who freely admits will probably wind up buying both an Xbox 360 and a PS3, the Xbox 360 just seems more promising to me.

What do I know about shaders......ALOT. Do you? I will keep it simple so that you understand. Shaders basically make games look more realistic.

Wow... that is a lot. You sure showed me...

Shaders make games look more realistic by simulating multiple light sources on a 3D model. And neither console is likely to approach its maximum operations/second anytime soon.

When 1080p is the standard, Xbox360 owners will be out of luck.

By the time TVs with 1080p support are in the majority of houses, and by the time that software developers use 1080p as a standard, both the Xbox 360 and the PS3 will have been replaced. How's that for thinking of the future?

Same goes for blueray. It is the future and you have to accept it. Yes, I know that HD-DVD and Blue-ray are tring to avoind another "war" and pick one format, which would go on the PS3.

Even though I'm actually pulling for Blu-Ray, why should I accept it as the future when that hasn't even been decided? The PS3 is using Blu-Ray because that's Sony's format. But if HD-DVD wins out, or if a hybrid format is accepted as the new standard, the PS3 won't be playing movies on the format anytime soon anyway.

You say blue ray will be expensive to include and discs more expensiv to deveop for? Sure but SONY is willing to eat the costs if it means that blue ray discs start cathing on and they will eventually profit for it.

Are you so sure Sony is willing to eat costs? As far as I know, although I'll bet JB0 knows for sure, only the Xbox was consistantly sold at a loss. And while people are still predicting a price close to $300 for the Xbox 360 (and I'll bet even less for the Revolution), the Mainichi Daily News reported that Sony is planning to sell the PS3 at 50,000 yen... about $470.

You might not use your console to play movies but the majority of owners out there do, myself included, so this is a very important feature.

I highly doubt it. Even my unemployed brother has a stand alone DVD player. I'd say, with some confidence, that people who use their consoles as their primary or sole DVD player are an extreme minority.

Now you bring up a very misguided statement over and over whic hmust ne addressed right now. You keeo saying that current games don't take up a full dual layer DVD. Guess what........WRONG!!!!!!!!!!! Ask most producers and developers of the hottest games tha have come out recently about space. They complain that they just could not fit everything in a game because THEY RAN OUT OF SPACE. Case in point is MG3. Hideo Kojima said that he had to cut out a few scenes and features from the game because of a DISC SPACE SHORTAGE.

Guess what, smacktard? Metal Gear Solid 3 is on a single layer DVD. Feel free to throw your copy into a computer and analyze it with DVD Decrypter, if you don't believe me. If running out of space was really an issue for Kojima, why didn't they simply use a dual-layer DVD? Likewise, if they'd run out of space for extras, how is it that they're are, in fact, releasing a Substance version with extras? 99% of the games developed today are on single-layer DVDs. Despite your erroneous claims to the contrary, it is a fact that most games do not even come close to taking up the full 9GB provided by a dual-layer DVD.

As for ports, if YOU don't use them then that's your problem because most people I know wish they had more ports. I use both of my PS2 USB ports to plug in a keyboard and my headset. See, I am all tapped out if I want to add something else. You need more ports and Xbox360 only has 3. Sorry, but that's just to few, especially since they are allowing you to connect all of your media to it. "sorry sir, only three allowed".

Try unplugging something when you're not using it. Even assuming that I'm going to play a game online with a mouse and keyboard, and I want to use voice chat instead of typing messages... well, the headset plugs into the controller on the 360, so that still leaves you with a free USB port. I mean, seriously, if you can come up with a reason why you'd actually need to simultaneously use all six USB ports on the PS3, I'll concede this argument.

As for 7 controllers, you must once again think of the future of gaming. Sure, it seems weird now but what about in 3 years when a new franchise arrives?

The future of multiplayer isn't trying to split a screen seven ways and trying to get six people to come over to play at the same time. Microsoft already proved that the future of mulitplayer is online.

What was the best PS3 demo? KillZone 2. It looked awsome. Even Unreal and fight night 3 looked sick. What about Xbox360? gears of war or Ghost 3? Is that their best? There is no comparison. The PS3 had the truly revolutionary and remarably better looking games, while Xbox360 had just better looking games compared to the original Xbox. IT is an Xbox 1.5 and not a true next gen console.

So the best demos and in-development games look better for the PS3 than the best demos and in-development games for the Xbox 360. That means nothing until we see finished games running on finished hardware.

Bottom line is that the PS3 is overall superior to the Xbox360. The End.

Bottom line is that PS3 owners have generic sequels to franchises past their prime, like Tekken 6 and Gran Turismo 5, to look forward to. At least the Xbox 360 is getting Perfect Dark Zero and hopefully more fresh content from BioWare.

Edited May 18, 2005 by mikeszekely

[Mr March]

Bottom line is, that killer app. If your favored console doesn't have it, you're not getting my money

[Godzilla]

well, assuming both Xbox 360 and PS3 comes out at $299 or less, then my son will be buying the Xbox 360, while I'm responsible for getting the PS3..........who's going to buy the HDTV????? Maybe the wife....

Well I am already ahead of the curve b/c I have a HDTV.

[niomosy]

I'd probably play games on PS3 the most. I'd probably use the Xbox360 the most but only as a Media Center system so long as it has all the features I want.

Not sure how likely I am to buy any of the systems. My console gaming time this year has been a few hours at most. PC gaming, I've racked up plenty of hours. If the Xbox360 does what I hope it will as a Media Center system, I'll eventually pick one up for that. I won't likely have much use for it as a gaming system, however. I'd probably get a PS3 for games.

[Agent ONE]

I don't know.. It's so hard to choose with Agent ONE around. Hahaha!

Tell me about it man... Its like I start thinkin, then all of a sudden I will catch my reflection is something and I can't think about anything else.

[Jolly Rogers]

What do I know about shaders......ALOT. Do you? I will keep it simple so that you understand. Shaders basically make games look more realistic.

Wow... that is a lot. You sure showed me...

Shaders make games look more realistic by simulating multiple light sources on a 3D model. And neither console is likely to approach its maximum operations/second anytime soon.

When 1080p is the standard, Xbox360 owners will be out of luck.

By the time TVs with 1080p support are in the majority of houses, and by the time that software developers use 1080p as a standard, both the Xbox 360 and the PS3 will have been replaced. How's that for thinking of the future?

QUOTE]Now you bring up a very misguided statement over and over whic hmust ne addressed right now. You keeo saying that current games don't take up a full dual layer DVD. Guess what........WRONG!!!!!!!!!!! Ask most producers and developers of the hottest games tha have come out recently about space. They complain that they just could not fit everything in a game because THEY RAN OUT OF SPACE. Case in point is MG3. Hideo Kojima said that he had to cut out a few scenes and features from the game because of a DISC SPACE SHORTAGE.

Guess what, smacktard? Metal Gear Solid 3 is on a single layer DVD. Feel free to throw your copy into a computer and analyze it with DVD Decrypter, if you don't believe me. If running out of space was really an issue for Kojima, why didn't they simply use a dual-layer DVD? Likewise, if they'd run out of space for extras, how is it that they're are, in fact, releasing a Substance version with extras? 99% of the games developed today are on single-layer DVDs. Despite your erroneous claims to the contrary, it is a fact that most games do not even come close to taking up the full 9GB provided by a dual-layer DVD.

Triple pwned!

I am so sick of these lame developers whining about having to cut content due to lack of disc space. They could have easily gone dual layer or multi-disc if they really wanted to not have to cut anything. Cy-Girls shipped on 2 discs, so it's been done before and not the realm of impossibility or impracticality.

As things stand, there are probably less than 20 dual-layer PS2 titles out of the thousands released PS2 titles. Even a 1st grader can tell you that does not constitute "majority" in any way.

[bandit29]

Cy-Girls shipped on 2 discs, so it's been done before and not the realm of impossibility or impracticality.

Cy-Girls shouldn't have been printed on 1 disc lol well it wasn't that bad ...

Most games don't take up that much space right now. Burn a few games you'll see.

[Jolly Rogers]

I bought it new at Fry's a week or two ago for 15 bucks. Mari can use the dough.

Edited May 18, 2005 by Jolly Rogers

[Mechafan]

Found some more info in Xbox sound from Game Spot.

Sound will be 5.1 out of the box, but since the all the audio is done in software, the Xbox 360 can easily support additional sound channels if games wanted to move up to 6.1 or 7.1-channel output.

[JB0]

Ahhh.... you gotta love Sony.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/615/615745p1.html

Japanese price. Japan has a proud tradition of shafting consumers.

PS1 and Saturn both premiered at 500. The PS3's 300$ pricetag at launch made it the cheapest DVD player around, while evrywhere else had 100$ DVD players on shelves a year before.

That's not indicative of the american launch price, I gaurantee it..

[JB0]

And just to chime in on the disc format stuff.

The arguement that current games are not filling dual layered DVD's is frankly a little silly. Many are pushing the limits and we are talking present generation games. The next gen games are going to take up exponentially more space as many many developers are already talking about the nightmarish costs associated with the increased graphic and programming demands that the newer, more graphically intensive systems require. I bet you that the PS3 games will be far beyond the capacity of Dual layer DVD's.

Ultimately, DTV may make that true.

Higher-res TVs = higher-res games = more detailed textures.

But right now, the # of games that go above the need for a single single-layer disk can likely be counted on one hand(only one I know of is SO3).

It's like everyone crapped on the Dreamcast because it's 1GB disks were too small. I believe a grand total of 3 2-disk games came out. And every PS2 title at the time was a 650 MB CD-ROM.

Either way, there's no clear successor yet. Game manufacturers don't want to get caught in another Betamax. So they stick with what works.

[JB0]

looks to me like your a sony fanboy, nothing wrong with it.

btw cutscenes blows wished game makers stop using them.

PRE-RENDERED custscenes blow.

I have no problem with game-engine cutscenes, in moderation. But pre-rendered ones break the visual continuity and make me feel funny.

...

Especially when your character's carrying a rifle, and suddenly shows up with a pistol in the FMV.

[Druna Skass]

Of those three companies, Sony is the only on who hasn't pissed me off. Nintendo let me down and microsoft seems to take sick demented pleasure in pissing me the f*ck off. I was just using my word processor when the damned thing "encountered and error" and made me lose 2 pages of my paper on Russia. It took a lot of self control to not put a hole in the wall.

Unlike my PC with XP, I've never felt a boiling rage that makes want to hurl my PS2 out my 3rd story window.

...Yes Druna Skass needs anger management...

Edited May 19, 2005 by Druna Skass

[JB0]

I have to defend the CF/SD/MemStick slots. I hate the proprietary flash RAM cards we've been stuck with since the PS1.

30$ for an 8 megabyte PS2 card is highway robbery.

And the sub-megabyte cards on the GameCube? GAH!

JB0, I'm not arguing in favor of proprietary memory cards. If you have to use a memory card, I'd say go with CF on account of its sheer cheapness. But, why waste money on either if you can stream media wirelessly and store it on the supplied 20GB hard drive?

PS3 lets you save games to a hard drive?

...

I have GOT to pay more attention to gaming news.

Everything I've seen's just been "OMG TEH CELL AM PWNZ" over and over.

If the XBox did nothing else, it got me internal game saves back. And for that Microsoft has my gratitude.

[Shadow Skull]

Damn it Agent ONE! There weren't any choices for undecided.

Anyways I will eventually get more then one of the next gen consoles, probably when they become obsolete.

The only one I'll make an effort to buy before it becomes obsolete is the Xbox 360, mainly because it will likely have titles that haven't been sequeled to death. Right now I don't see much point in getting a PS3, when I get a PS2 for a lower price and still have access to a large library of great games.

Anyone check out Eletronic Gaming Monthly? I so an article in it today about how games for the next gen consoles might be sold for 70$ when they get released.

[JB0]

Anyone check out Eletronic Gaming Monthly? I so an article in it today about how games for the next gen consoles might be sold for 70$ when they get released.

Yeah. The companies are talking about trying that out.

I think it'll bomb. Remember the N64?

[lt.actionjackson]

I actually spend more time in front of my PC playing such cutting edge games as Civilization or Pirates! so my consoles sit around collecting dust. If I was going to wager on a new console purchase I'd say Nintendo, just because they have the games that I know I'll probably want to play (Zelda, Metroid, Mario). I've never really been all that impressed with GTA or Metal Gear enough to warrant a purchase of a PS2 or XBox. All you youngin's talkin' about how great it is to stomp on a hooker for some loot using hi res 1.21 gigawatss of processing power, need to go back and play a few games of pong or Atari 2600 pac man (yikes!) and realize where yo rootz is, holla!

[Mechafan]

Anyone check out Eletronic Gaming Monthly? I so an article in it today about how games for the next gen consoles might be sold for 70$ when they get released.

I saw that. Here are some preorders for $60 so far.

http://www.gamestop.com/search.asp?filter=...&searchcount=50

[mikeszekely]

Japanese price. Japan has a proud tradition of shafting consumers.

PS1 and Saturn both premiered at 500. The PS3's 300$ pricetag at launch made it the cheapest DVD player around, while evrywhere else had 100$ DVD players on shelves a year before.

That's not indicative of the american launch price, I gaurantee it..

Remember, though, that most consoles have come out in Japan with 6 months to a year before the US release. If Sony is shooting for a simultaneous worldwide launch (and I don't know that they are, I'm just guessing that they might since Microsoft is), the cost of the console will still be a little higher.

Also, while American consoles have been sold traditionally for lower prices, remember that the PSP was actually more expensive once it hit the States.

I'm going to agree with you, JB0, that the PS3 won't be $500 when it hits the States... but I am afraid that it'll be higher than that $300 sweet spot.

PS3 lets you save games to a hard drive?

Oh, no! The PS3 has announced support for a hard drive, but Sony hasn't said if it will ship with one or not.

I didn't mean to imply that the PS3 definatively has a hard drive... my point to MGREXX was that having slots for a variety of flash cards doesn't make the PS3 superior to the Xbox 360 as long as the Xbox 360 does have the hard drive.

[mikeszekely]

Anyone check out Eletronic Gaming Monthly? I so an article in it today about how games for the next gen consoles might be sold for 70$ when they get released.

Yeah. The companies are talking about trying that out.

I think it'll bomb. Remember the N64?

Something else to consider, and I think it was mentioned in the same article, that developers have been using the higher-priced "collector's edition" version of games as an experiment to see if consumers are willing to pay more for games. And I'll say that, from a retailer's point of view, the $54.99 collector's edition games (like Halo 2) have sold pretty well, but the $60 games (like Mortal Kombat Deception) sold much better in the regular editions. If the publishers learned anything from that, they'll keep the games at no more than $54.99.