yellowlightman Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 Won't see anything won't a damn until '07-'09 from either console and probably will have to wait until '08-'10 for Nintendo. Riiiight.... so you really expect both companies to miss an ENTIRE GENERATION leaving MS completely unopposed? 369727[/snapback] I think he means in terms of games on the system, not the systems themselves.
Gaijin Posted February 15, 2006 Posted February 15, 2006 Possible Sept. release for PS3: http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=c...d=2270&Itemid=2
myk Posted February 16, 2006 Posted February 16, 2006 Good. It'll give me time to save money, and pick a spot outside of Target to camp out at...
Uxi Posted February 16, 2006 Posted February 16, 2006 All I know is I got my 60" Sony SXRD ready for either one. I'm glad I passed on the 360 so far. Hopefully by the time the PS3 is out, there will be a price drop and and the kinks have all been worked out. I am getting kinda itchy though. I'd like to give the PS3 a grace period, as well.. which the market may or may not force on me... but I am getting kinda itchy for some HD gaming goodness. Pardon me for not going through 70 pages. What's everyone gonna be playing their 360 ON?
chrono Posted February 16, 2006 Posted February 16, 2006 Don't forget the Home site as well. http://www.playstation.com/products.html Hopefully programming it is simpler then the first two were and the first gen games are buyable before they become 'bargin-bin' stock. The stats are abit on the 'light' side for RAM. And is it me or are they aluding to 2 HD monitor support?
Gaijin Posted February 16, 2006 Posted February 16, 2006 Don't forget the Home site as well.http://www.playstation.com/products.html Hopefully programming it is simpler then the first two were and the first gen games are buyable before they become 'bargin-bin' stock. The stats are abit on the 'light' side for RAM. And is it me or are they aluding to 2 HD monitor support? 370796[/snapback] They mentioned it at last year's E3 though I doubt we'll see many games that would support it. Those specs are the same as E3 '05.
JB0 Posted February 16, 2006 Posted February 16, 2006 Don't forget the Home site as well.http://www.playstation.com/products.html Hopefully programming it is simpler then the first two were and the first gen games are buyable before they become 'bargin-bin' stock. The stats are abit on the 'light' side for RAM. And is it me or are they aluding to 2 HD monitor support? 370796[/snapback] PS1 waws actually VERY easy to program for. It's a simple design, and Sony was the first company to offer C++ dev kits(as opposed to writing the games in raw assembly). That's part of why it won over the Saturn, actually. It was also cheaper to make, far better marketed, and free of to the inter-division feuds that were plaguing Sega at the time*. The Saturn was a monster but it was very difficult to bring out it's full potential. And Sega wasn't supplying any C++ libraries, partially because it wasn't how the industry worked at the time and partially because the compilers of that era handled multi-threaded code rather poorly, making it almost impossible to get anywhere near the Saturn's full potential without using assembly. If you were pushing the Saturn to the edge, you had two SH2s(the central processors), an SH1, and a 68EC000 variant all running code at any given time. AND timed the code to eliminate RAM conflicts, as the Saturn architecture had the SH2s sharing all resources, so they couldn't even read in instructions at the same time. There's also a pair of DSPs, one of which is also your sound hardware(officially, the 68000 was part of the sound system, but it wasn't actually required for anything, similar to the z80 in the Genesis), bringing the processor total to EIGHT. And any graphics code was addressing two GPUs, each of which had a totally diffrent feature set(one chip was responsible for sprites and polys, while the other was dedicated to backgrounds), and making sure both chips were on the same page at render time. By comparison, the PS has 1 R3000 CPU, 1 GPU, and 1 sound chip(which DOESN'T double as a processor). All code runs on the R3000, which issues orders to the other parts. So there's no RAM contention issues, no sync issues, no nothing. As long as you're giving the right commands, it's all good. And since it's such a simple system, the era's compilers did a very good job of churning out reasonably decent code, though as the system aged developers would turn to hand-tweaking the assembly to squeeze out a bit more performance or pull off a certain effect. The PS2 and Dreamcast, ironically, were reversed. The DC had nice C++ libraries at launch and a simple architecture, while the PS2 was a mess internally(not as much as the Saturn, though) and had no libraries(Sony thought that since developers were working so heavily with assembly at the end of the PS1 that they'd want similarly intimate control over the PS2 from day one). * As I understand things, Sega Japan was kind of annoyed at Sega America for making the Genesis a success when it flopped in Japan, and they weren't above doing REALLY stupid stuff just to remind Sega America that they had no real power. Stuff like telling Sega America to develop a 32-bit upgrade to the Genesis, pressuring them to create it as fast as possible, and then telling them about the Saturn AFTER they'd finished the 32x. Or making the Saturn an incredibly complicated piece of hardware because Sega America asked for a single-processor solution.
chrono Posted February 16, 2006 Posted February 16, 2006 Personally Developer-level experience or second hand information via friend/coworker or magazine? Not that any of what you said actually matters for the current system architure.
Black Valkyrie Posted February 16, 2006 Posted February 16, 2006 The good old Saturn. Seriously how many of are really interested in the new consoles ?
JB0 Posted February 16, 2006 Posted February 16, 2006 Personally Developer-level experience or second hand information via friend/coworker or magazine? What I know of the systems and programming(while I do not do it professionally, I DO code occasionally, and I know a lot more about it than most people), and what I've heard from developers. A dash of common sense goes a long way too. Coding multi-processor is harder than single-proc. It seems like it should be, and it is. Coding in assembly is harder than C++. That's the whole reason high-level languages exist. Coding multi-proc assembly VS single-proc C++ is harder+harder. And I'm rather insulted that you would file my friends on the same level as gaming magazines. The only ones I'd listen to as far as game hardware is concerned actually know something more than "ZOMG TEH PLAYSTAITON AM TEH AWESOME!1111" Not that any of what you said actually matters for the current system architure. You're the one that brought it up, so you don't get to say it's not relevant.
Gaijin Posted February 18, 2006 Posted February 18, 2006 (edited) Merril Lynch has always "forecast" predictions about the videogame industry that never really pan out. Besides their absurd cost guess, they also give themselves a clear window of late this year to next which means, "we have no clue either". I wouldn't lose sleep over it. If E3 comes and no new info is shown, then you can worry. Edited February 18, 2006 by Gaijin
Duke Togo Posted February 18, 2006 Posted February 18, 2006 Internally, the word around SCEA is this fall.
Gaijin Posted February 19, 2006 Posted February 19, 2006 Some interesting news about Cell: Cell ready to go The process of bringing manufacturing of the Cell microprocessor up to speed has been an enormous success so far, according to a senior IBM executive, who said that the new chip's yields are improving faster than any other device the firm has worked on. Speaking to Warren Communication News, IBM senior vice president William Zeittler said that the firm is learning how to improve yields of the chip "faster than on any chip we've done." In effect, this means that the company's output of Cell processors - which is largely defined by the "yield", or how many chips on each silicon platter are actually usable - is progressing ahead of schedule. It's good news for Sony, as it means that one of the main stumbling blocks to producing high volumes of the PlayStation 3 console for launch has been largely removed - with the other key components which could yet cause problems being the NVIDIA graphics part and the Blu-Ray drive, although both of those are based on more mature technologies than Cell. However, it should be noted that IBM was also able to ramp up the volume of the PowerPC processors used in the Xbox 360 very quickly, not least since they were very similar to existing dual-core PowerPC chips. The severe shortages of the Xbox 360 at launch are thought to have been caused more by the firm's over-ambitious target of launching worldwide within a two week window than by any extraordinary manufacturing difficulties - which goes to show that while IBM may be keeping its side of the deal, Sony still has much ground to cover to ensure steady supply of the PS3 at launch.
mikeszekely Posted February 19, 2006 Posted February 19, 2006 Yeah, that's pretty much what we've been given to understand. It's not about how many Cell chips they can produce, it's about how fast Sony can connect it to an RSX and BD-ROM, shove it in a box, and ship them out. That's kinda why I don't really see the PS3 making it by September. Remember, the PS2 launched in Japan on 3-4, and then the States on 10-26. Even with that kind of gap, the launch games were some of the worst, and there were still shortages. Most of the "software" doesn't look close to completion yet, and Sony hasn't really given any indication that the PS3 will even launch in Japan anytime in the next few months. Unless they're shooting for a simultaneous launch, which I doubt, I'll predict that the final launch date and price won't be announced until E3, it'll launch in Summer of 2006 in Japan, have a projected November release date for the States, which will be delayed to March of 2007 ala PSP for the dual purpose of giving more time to American and European developers to get quality launch games out and to build up more supply for the American launch. But I'm just guessing.
David Hingtgen Posted February 19, 2006 Posted February 19, 2006 Nvidia says they JUST finalized the design--no launch anywhere until fall at the very earliest. So we are waiting on the graphics.
Gaijin Posted February 19, 2006 Posted February 19, 2006 (edited) Honestly, moreso than the actual PS3 performance, what I'd like info on is the Playstation HUB, the supposed Sony answer to Live. And I actually have confidence that we'll see Sony launch in Sept. in Japan and US. Edited February 19, 2006 by Gaijin
waters7 Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 (edited) check this out Very interesting Edited February 20, 2006 by waters7
MicronianDevil Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 (edited) Oh great. So that means that even if I pre-order one there is no guarantee I will have one on launch day. (Whenever that is.) So the Spring release date is for Japan?! I always thought that is was for the U.S. So now we have to wait till what? November or so? Not good but on the other hand, the japanese can get the first gen consoles and have them get the PS3s with all the bugs. (Over heating, etc.) While hopefully for the U.S. release they will have worked out all the bugs. Edited February 20, 2006 by MicronianDevil
Apollo Leader Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 Considering that Sony hasn't shown the "final" controller, all the PS3 cases on display have been empty units (don't be surprised if the PS3 looks different then what's been shown so far), a year after the E3 playable games haven't been made playable to the public, and that Blu-Ray is a brand new (and expensive) technology, fall is the earliest that we'll see this machine at least here in the US. I have a suspicion that when Sony made their PS3 unveiling last May, they were at a point further behind in development then when they unveiled the PS2 in September 1999 in order to deflate the US release of the Dreamcast. But I do hope the machine turns out to be a great piece of equipment. I'll probably get one next year or 2008
JB0 Posted February 20, 2006 Posted February 20, 2006 Oh noes. 371335[/snapback] *laughs* For what it's worth, their analyst is a bit ... stupid. The 90 nanometer process Sony is using is the STANDARD now, not cutting-edge stuff like he believes. 65nm would be the leading-edge(Intel's using it in their new Core parts, which aren't yet widely available, though they've officially launched). And you can't really repair a defective microchip, regardless of where the defect is. He's probably confused by the fact that PC manufacturesr can, in many cases, disable the defective areas and sell the chips as a lower-end part. The best-known example being the 486SX, which had a disabled floating-point unit, but the typical example now(and the reason he's confused) is a chip with damaged L2 cache RAM can be sold with the damaged part of the cache disabled. ... Though the modern processor tiering isn't actually driven by failure rates. They bin the parts by what they WANT the yields to come in at, and make a mint off high-end parts that are, for the most part, identical to the low-end ones(I suspect part of the reason the P4 and Athlon64 have integrated heat spreaders is to avoid end-user reconfigurations such as AthlonXP's famous "pencil trick", since the configuration jumpers are all sealed away). So it's actually VERY doubtful that there's near as many cache failures as there are half-cache chips. But that's another thread entirely. Anyways... Merril-Lynch's analyst doesn't have a clue what he's talking about, and it's a shame people are listening to him.
yellowlightman Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 Uk Resistance has had the decency to set up a wiki documenting all of Sony's lies regarding the PS3 here: http://wikihost.org/wikis/ukres/programm/g...me=sonyps3_lies I'm curious as to who here is genuinely excited about the PS3? Considering the PS2 was a pretty big disapointment and Sony is about as out of touch with the consumer as Nintendo is, I'm curious... why is anyone looking forward to the PS3?
David Hingtgen Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 So that I can play Xenogears with even MORE improved textures. (Hey, I spent 90% of the first year of ownership of my PS2 replaying PSX RPG's) PS3--anyone who buys one on launch day already has dozens of good games to play on it. PS--how was the PS2 a disappointment? It's my most-played system of all-time now, surpassing even my insane number of summer SNES hours. And I have more games for it than Genesis, Xbox, and Gamecube combined. (I think I still have more PSX games than PS2 games, but a fair number of those PSX games are "late" ones which were only ever played on the PS2)
JB0 Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 Uk Resistance has had the decency to set up a wiki documenting all of Sony's lies regarding the PS3 here: http://wikihost.org/wikis/ukres/programm/g...me=sonyps3_lies Actually, it's more an anti-Sony propaganda piece than anything else. I'm curious as to who here is genuinely excited about the PS3? Considering the PS2 was a pretty big disapointment and Sony is about as out of touch with the consumer as Nintendo is, I'm curious... why is anyone looking forward to the PS3? Because while Sony is a bunch of retards with their collective heads up their asses, they have a marketing team that's second to none. That = mass market acceptance, which = more games. I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm looking forward to PS3 games, not the PS3.
Duke Togo Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 Considering the PS2 was a pretty big disapointment 372061[/snapback] I'm sorry, but how does a system that sold over 100 million units considered a disappointment? By what reasoning? I know I know, we are on an anime discussion board, but we are all older here, can we please leave the fanboy-ism at the door, please?
Duke Togo Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm looking forward to PS3 games, not the PS3. 372073[/snapback] Quite right, JB0. A system is only as good as its games.
yellowlightman Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 Considering the PS2 was a pretty big disapointment 372061[/snapback] I'm sorry, but how does a system that sold over 100 million units considered a disappointment? By what reasoning? I know I know, we are on an anime discussion board, but we are all older here, can we please leave the fanboy-ism at the door, please? 372075[/snapback] I'm talking about disapointment from a gamers perspective. It shipped with an, poorly designed controller for starters. A d-pad that was worthless for any extreme use (shooters are unplayable on it). Along with a lack of triggers (making racing games pretty much worthless), as well as poorly placed analog sticks (pressing both towards the center results in thumbs hitting, which is a pain). Furthermore, it was identical to the Dual Shock that shipped with the PS1 (save for the pressure sensitive buttons-- which were a joke), which was a pretty good example of Sony's general lazy attitude. It was a pain to program for and it took over two years for any decent games to be released for the system. It was the most inferior game of the generation and it was precisely because of fanboyism that it succeeded where others failed, "You're gonna buy a Dreamcast? Just wait for a PS2 it's way better." The hype surrounding the PS2 was filled with lots of big promises which never materialized. As hardware-- it was a disapointment. It's saving grace was that it had lots of games, it wasn't a good system per se. Don't bother calling me a fanboy, since my golden PS2 sits right next to my TV. My fundamental problem is that the PS2 was a lazy machine which succeeded because of the success of the first Playstation. The PS3 looks to be little better, considering the horrific controller and high price point.
JB0 Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 Considering the PS2 was a pretty big disapointment 372061[/snapback] I'm sorry, but how does a system that sold over 100 million units considered a disappointment? By what reasoning? I know I know, we are on an anime discussion board, but we are all older here, can we please leave the fanboy-ism at the door, please? 372075[/snapback] I'm talking about disapointment from a gamers perspective. It shipped with an, poorly designed controller for starters. A d-pad that was worthless for any extreme use (shooters are unplayable on it). Along with a lack of triggers (making racing games pretty much worthless), as well as poorly placed analog sticks (pressing both towards the center results in thumbs hitting, which is a pain). Furthermore, it was identical to the Dual Shock that shipped with the PS1 (save for the pressure sensitive buttons-- which were a joke), which was a pretty good example of Sony's general lazy attitude. Sadly, that's what was WANTED. There's a VERY large portion of the market out there that believes, for whatever drug-induced reason, the DualShock is the perfect controller and all others are just pale shadows of it's greatness. I'll give 'em pressure-sensitive buttons. I'm sure it looked good on paper. Might've even worked if they hadn't been preserving the digital feel. But who knows how losing the feel would mess with other games. It was a pain to program for and it took over two years for any decent games to be released for the system. It was the most inferior game of the generation and it was precisely because of fanboyism that it succeeded where others failed, "You're gonna buy a Dreamcast? Just wait for a PS2 it's way better." The hype surrounding the PS2 was filled with lots of big promises which never materialized. As hardware-- it was a disapointment. No argument here. It's saving grace was that it had lots of games, it wasn't a good system per se. I define good system in terms of software. Hence, it WAS a good system, just because of the library. The Jaguar, by comparison, is really neat hardware, but a lousy system. My fundamental problem is that the PS2 was a lazy machine which succeeded because of the success of the first Playstation. I wouldn't call it lazy. They DID put a lot of work into the internal design, they just cocked it up royally while doing so. The PS3 looks to be little better, considering the horrific controller and high price point. Price point's still undetermined. And the controller actually seems like a massive improvement, if it ships. It looks like they ripped off the 'Cube pad, which is the most comfortable input device I've held in a long time. Of course, the massive negative feedback about the "batarang" means that the DualShock3 will PROBABLY wind up being a wirelss DualShock2. Ah well, there's always 3rd-party controllers.
mikeszekely Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 I'm sorry, but how does a system that sold over 100 million units considered a disappointment? By what reasoning? Because it's more like 50,000 users. From the customers I deal with, I would definately say that Sony has sold an average of two PS2s per customer (yes, I know that some of you are lucky enough to be on your first... but for every person who's on their first, there's someone on their third or even fourth). Mind you, 50,000 is still more than the Xbox or the Gamecube. And, as it's been said, it really comes down to games... there are more games on the PS2 than the Xbox or the Gamecube. And when the dust settles, I'm sure that Sony will come out on top again, but if they keep biting consumers in the ass with shoddy products and empty promises, while Microsoft builds Japanese support and Nintendo continues to innovate, Sony will find themselves winning by smaller margins. Sony must change their attitude and improve QC, or they will be unseated as top dog in the console industry. Maybe not today, maybe not by the 360 or Revolution. But it's going to happen.
Black Valkyrie Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 By the consumer. One of my friends bought the PS2 three times ! cuz of the the QC issues. My bad experience with it, I sold most of my PS stuff, even some of the items where factory sealed and because of the QC. Yes even it had the worst D-button (broke a few of them), my friend got PSP Gradius Portable, he said its better to play it with the analog stick. The only thing I have and play on it is my GBA-SP and I`m planning to get a NDS-Lite and of course the NR.
F360° Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 (edited) I have a first gen PS1 that I modded it with some 10 wired mod chip right after I purchase it. It still works, the controller still works too. I was surprise when my old mod chip was able to play those anti-mod chip games that came out couple of years later. The game was Dino Crisis. Got the Dreamcast, it was a great system Got the PS2 with Gran Turismo 3 package in a parking lot from someone trunk. works great. Trade in my PS2 and 5 old games to EBgames for $150 credit for the slim PS2. All of them still works. PS1 was a great system PS2 was a great system Dreamcast was a great system Edited February 21, 2006 by F360°
Gaijin Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 (edited) I'm sorry, but how does a system that sold over 100 million units considered a disappointment? By what reasoning? Because it's more like 50,000 users. From the customers I deal with, I would definately say that Sony has sold an average of two PS2s per customer (yes, I know that some of you are lucky enough to be on your first... but for every person who's on their first, there's someone on their third or even fourth). Mind you, 50,000 is still more than the Xbox or the Gamecube. And, as it's been said, it really comes down to games... there are more games on the PS2 than the Xbox or the Gamecube. And when the dust settles, I'm sure that Sony will come out on top again, but if they keep biting consumers in the ass with shoddy products and empty promises, while Microsoft builds Japanese support and Nintendo continues to innovate, Sony will find themselves winning by smaller margins. Sony must change their attitude and improve QC, or they will be unseated as top dog in the console industry. Maybe not today, maybe not by the 360 or Revolution. But it's going to happen. 372196[/snapback] 50,000? I don't think so. Unless you meant 50,000,000, because I doubt even the most loyal Sony fan boy bought 2000 consoles apiece. And the stories of everyone on their 3rd and 4th system are far the exception rather than the norm. This is just another "video game store" employee myth. You might have seen a lot of defective PS2's but just because you may have, I really doubt your reasoning and numbers. Wishful MS thinking. Are you saying one in two PS2's are faulty? One in three even? I think not. Edited February 21, 2006 by Gaijin
Black Valkyrie Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 The only thing I have and play on it is my GBA-SP and I`m planning to get a NDS-Lite and of course the NR. 372228[/snapback] I forgot, I also play with the Saturn, just ordered not while ago Z Gundam for it.
Duke Togo Posted February 21, 2006 Posted February 21, 2006 (edited) I have one game console, the PS2 I bought on release day. It still runs without any problems, even after 3 GTA games and two RPGs (FFX and DGVIII). Personally, I had Dynasty Warriors 2 and Armored Core 2 shortly after release, and I was VERY happy. 50,000 or 50,000,000, both numbers are grossly off. Edited February 21, 2006 by Duke Togo
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