Which CONSOLE!?

[mikeszekely]

Except the primary reason games went from carts to CDs was the lowered cost and better response time to demand, which translates to higher profit for the publishers.

They can always make a game multi-disc if space runs out.  I don't see multi-disc games being a deterrent to the millions who bought games like Final Fantasy VII.

Game developers who whine about lack of disc space are just making excuses for rushing a half-baked product out of the door.

330683[/snapback]

And they quickly used up that space it provided.

Multi-DVD games are VERY uncommon, and the game industry currently only uses half the capacity of each disk(as they refuse to pay for the dual-layer manufacturing process).

True most do not right now. But right now, the cost of 2 dual layer DVD's is equivalent to the cost of a single Blu Ray disc...(actually almost close to $2 at this early stage and expected to be less than $1 by the time next year rolls around). Cost will pay for itself in the long run...and the other reason BluRay is excpected to do well with the game industry as well is the increased security over DVD's. Which is a big thing for the film and game industry whether we think it's a problem or not...they do and they will do everything they can to protect their content. Audio quality can be improved as well (which anyone with a HT system knows is sorely lacking in console and PC titles today).

Bottom line is you are correct in your arguments, however the industry will move on. Avg Joe won't really care or know anyways...but what I'm saying is there's really nothing wrong in having too much capacity available, however not having too much certainly can be at times.

330741[/snapback]

Let me start off by saying that I have nothing against having more space. Space is fine. And, if Blu-Ray really takes off, as it's poised to, then I have no problem with future devices using Blu-Ray discs.

The main point of mine (and, at least I think JB0's) argument, though, is that a lot of people are simply looking at it as BD-ROM = 50GB, DVD-9 = 9GB, therefore BD-ROM is better and the Xbox 360 is a dud for using dual-layer DVDs... and that's simply not the case. Microsoft was committed to getting the 360 out in time for the holiday, and they simply didn't have the luxury of waiting to see who the winner of the next-gen format war would turn out to be... especially when, maybe not all, but the majority of next-gen games will fit on a single dual-layer DVD. If 95% of the games you buy come on a single disc for both the Xbox 360 AND the PS3, does it really make a lick of difference that the PS3's chosen medium has that much more empty space on it? Especially given that the 360's drive will be 12x, and the PS3 will be likely have a 2x, and that will likely translate to faster load times.

Blu-Ray has plenty of potential, but it's not necessary yet.

[Gaijin]

Except the primary reason games went from carts to CDs was the lowered cost and better response time to demand, which translates to higher profit for the publishers.

They can always make a game multi-disc if space runs out.  I don't see multi-disc games being a deterrent to the millions who bought games like Final Fantasy VII.

Game developers who whine about lack of disc space are just making excuses for rushing a half-baked product out of the door.

330683[/snapback]

And they quickly used up that space it provided.

Multi-DVD games are VERY uncommon, and the game industry currently only uses half the capacity of each disk(as they refuse to pay for the dual-layer manufacturing process).

True most do not right now. But right now, the cost of 2 dual layer DVD's is equivalent to the cost of a single Blu Ray disc...(actually almost close to $2 at this early stage and expected to be less than $1 by the time next year rolls around). Cost will pay for itself in the long run...and the other reason BluRay is excpected to do well with the game industry as well is the increased security over DVD's. Which is a big thing for the film and game industry whether we think it's a problem or not...they do and they will do everything they can to protect their content. Audio quality can be improved as well (which anyone with a HT system knows is sorely lacking in console and PC titles today).

Bottom line is you are correct in your arguments, however the industry will move on. Avg Joe won't really care or know anyways...but what I'm saying is there's really nothing wrong in having too much capacity available, however not having too much certainly can be at times.

330741[/snapback]

Let me start off by saying that I have nothing against having more space. Space is fine. And, if Blu-Ray really takes off, as it's poised to, then I have no problem with future devices using Blu-Ray discs.

The main point of mine (and, at least I think JB0's) argument, though, is that a lot of people are simply looking at it as BD-ROM = 50GB, DVD-9 = 9GB, therefore BD-ROM is better and the Xbox 360 is a dud for using dual-layer DVDs... and that's simply not the case. Microsoft was committed to getting the 360 out in time for the holiday, and they simply didn't have the luxury of waiting to see who the winner of the next-gen format war would turn out to be... especially when, maybe not all, but the majority of next-gen games will fit on a single dual-layer DVD. If 95% of the games you buy come on a single disc for both the Xbox 360 AND the PS3, does it really make a lick of difference that the PS3's chosen medium has that much more empty space on it? Especially given that the 360's drive will be 12x, and the PS3 will be likely have a 2x, and that will likely translate to faster load times.

Blu-Ray has plenty of potential, but it's not necessary yet.

330759[/snapback]

Who says did the 360 will be a dud? This has nothing to do with the 360 or MS's choice of DVD. Again, I'm saying it doesn't hurt right now and leaves potential.

Most firefights in real life never go past 2 or 3 shots. When I'm on duty will I carry no reloads just because in all reality I'll 99.99999% never need the extra rounds? Hell no. I'd prefer to carry them anyway. It's not a good comparison but, it just illustrates my point about I'd rather have more than not enough.

Edited September 23, 2005 by Gaijin

[Ishimaru]

Microsoft is dumb to release the Xbox 360 now, they could have taken the time to make it better, no doubt the PS3 will be better. News is that Microsoft will release upgrades for the 360 but thats dumb, Microsoft is probaly thinking that the cost of 360 will be too much if they took thier time with it. I'd go with PS3 since the graphics are stunning and real life looking almost. One thing who is going with Agent ONE's sexy body cause I didnt ....

Dean

[JB0]

Except the primary reason games went from carts to CDs was the lowered cost and better response time to demand, which translates to higher profit for the publishers.

They can always make a game multi-disc if space runs out.  I don't see multi-disc games being a deterrent to the millions who bought games like Final Fantasy VII.

Game developers who whine about lack of disc space are just making excuses for rushing a half-baked product out of the door.

330683[/snapback]

And they quickly used up that space it provided.

Game developers have taken five years to get around to using more than HALF the space it provided.

The PC industry STILL hasn't moved from CD, though this can be attributed in part to the fact that PC games heavily compress the data and require it to be decompressed to a hard drive before play.

Multi-DVD games are VERY uncommon, and the game industry currently only uses half the capacity of each disk(as they refuse to pay for the dual-layer manufacturing process).

True most do not right now. But right now, the cost of 2 dual layer DVD's is equivalent to the cost of a single Blu Ray disc...(actually almost close to $2 at this early stage and expected to be less than $1 by the time next year rolls around). Cost will pay for itself in the long run...

But the game industry right now uses 2 single-layer disks instead of a single dual-layer disk on the rare occasion that they use 2 DVDs. After five years, the number of games that exceeed the space constraints of a single 1-layer DVD can be counted on one hand.

The long run assumes the game industry is going to start in on massively larger games immediatly. I would bet that the # of games that exceed a dual-layer DVD next gen will similarly be countable on one hand.

Audio quality can be improved as well (which anyone with a HT system knows is sorely lacking in console and PC titles today).

It's as much of a problem as in the movie industry.

Dolby Digital sucks.

IMO, game sound is currently "good enough".

Admittedly, I do not have a particularly great home theater, and tend to not absorb many of the details while engaged in the game.

Bottom line is you are correct in your arguments, however the industry will move on. 

I agree it's going to be needed.

I just disagree it's needed this generation.

Avg Joe won't really care or know anyways...but what I'm saying is there's really nothing wrong in having too much capacity available, however not having too much certainly can be at times.

Except having too much costs more money.

And not having too much is never a problem. Not having enough is a problem, though.

[Gunbuster]

YES! Nintendo will release a standard controller (my worries are over). The controller will dock with the gyro remote similar to the Dreamcast controller and the VMU. The question is do we have to pay for the standard controller? @_@;;

[yellowlightman]

YES! Nintendo will release a standard controller (my worries are over). The controller will dock with the gyro remote similar to the Dreamcast controller and the VMU. The question is do we have to pay for the standard controller? @_@;;

330790[/snapback]

Why did you have worries in the first place? It's always been known that the Revolution would be back-compatible with Gamecube controllers.

[Gunbuster]

I would not want to ever play street fighter or soul calibur on the GC controller again. It was really painful. I am praying that the new controller would be better than the GC controller.

Edited September 23, 2005 by Gunbuster

[Anubis]

Holy crap. I looked at ebgames today, and the Xbox 360 games really are $60 a pop. That's insane. Even my brother, who got all 3 previous consoles and was thinking about the 360 too, said he was going to wait. 400 for the console and 60 for the games. No way. Even the controller is $40. The CONTROLLER!

[Ishimaru]

The controllers are alot less thna $40 they just like to rip us off and make more money...Hope someone noticed this. The creaters making the PS3 and past systems have a obsession with Spider-Man I mean look at the logo on the PS3 its a Spider-Man font, they included the Spider-Man UMD Movie as a bonus for the PSP, they made Spider-Man 2 for PSP which is pretty pointless since it was made like on all systems and is boring as crap. Like what the hell?? They are probaly geeks collecting alot of Spider-Man comics while creating the Sony products with Spider-man having to do something each and every one Im not saying I hate Sony but dude put Spider-man out of site please....

[yellowlightman]

The controllers are alot less thna $40 they just like to rip us off and make more money...Hope someone noticed this. The creaters making the PS3 and past systems have a obsession with Spider-Man I mean look at the logo on the PS3 its a Spider-Man font, they included the Spider-Man UMD Movie as a bonus for the PSP, they made Spider-Man 2 for PSP which is pretty pointless since it was made like on all systems and is boring as crap. Like what the hell?? They are probaly geeks collecting alot of Spider-Man comics while creating the Sony products with Spider-man having to do something each and every one Im not saying I hate Sony but dude put Spider-man out of site please....

330835[/snapback]

Might have something to do with the fact that Sony Pictures made the Spiderman movies?

[JB0]

YES! Nintendo will release a standard controller (my worries are over). The controller will dock with the gyro remote similar to the Dreamcast controller and the VMU. The question is do we have to pay for the standard controller? @_@;;

330790[/snapback]

Why did you have worries in the first place? It's always been known that the Revolution would be back-compatible with Gamecube controllers.

330792[/snapback]

It's still not confirmed that 'Cube pads will be usable in Rev mode.

It's a safe bet they won't be 100% compatible, as the Rev controller has more axes once hte analog stick handle is attached(8 VS 6).

I would not want to ever play street fighter or soul calibur on the GC controller again. It was really painful. I am praying that the new controller would be better than the GC controller.

330805[/snapback]

So... the real question is why you never bought the Soul Calibur 2 stick to go with the game. Worked tolerably well AND it was sexy.

...

There was a Street Fighter for the 'Cube?

[Radd]

Microsoft is dumb to release the Xbox 360 now, they could have taken the time to make it better, no doubt the PS3 will be better. News is that Microsoft will release upgrades for the 360 but thats dumb, Microsoft is probaly thinking that the cost of 360 will be too much if they took thier time with it. I'd go with PS3 since the graphics are stunning and real life looking almost. One thing who is going with Agent ONE's sexy body cause I didnt ....

Dean

330766[/snapback]

By that logic, Sony was dumb for releasing the PS2 when they did. Look at what happened, Sony released first, they released the weakest console of this generation, and wound up on top because they released first and had such a huge install base.

There's a lot of factors to take into consideration when predicting who will come out on top. Price, games, when the system launches, how well it sells early on...

[Radd]

Holy crap! I didn't know about that stick. I was wondering why no one had made an arcade stick for the Cube. I need me one of those.

[JB0]

Microsoft is dumb to release the Xbox 360 now, they could have taken the time to make it better, no doubt the PS3 will be better. News is that Microsoft will release upgrades for the 360 but thats dumb, Microsoft is probaly thinking that the cost of 360 will be too much if they took thier time with it. I'd go with PS3 since the graphics are stunning and real life looking almost. One thing who is going with Agent ONE's sexy body cause I didnt ....

Dean

330766[/snapback]

By that logic, Sony was dumb for releasing the PS2 when they did. Look at what happened, Sony released first, they released the weakest console of this generation, and wound up on top because they released first and had such a huge install base.

There's a lot of factors to take into consideration when predicting who will come out on top. Price, games, when the system launches, how well it sells early on...

330845[/snapback]

Sony released SECOND. Dreamcast was first.

[yellowlightman]

I would not want to ever play street fighter or soul calibur on the GC controller again. It was really painful. I am praying that the new controller would be better than the GC controller.

330805[/snapback]

So... the real question is why you never bought the Soul Calibur 2 stick to go with the game. Worked tolerably well AND it was sexy.

...

There was a Street Fighter for the 'Cube?

330844[/snapback]

The better question is: Why are complaining about being able to play fighters on the Revolution? With the exception of Soul Calibur II, a Nintendo system hasn't seen a respectable fighter since the SNES days.

Gotta stay with your strengths...

[Anubis]

The controllers are alot less thna $40 they just like to rip us off and make more money...

330835[/snapback]

Here's the link to the wired controller for $40. The wireless controller is $50.

Microsoft loves to overcharge that's for sure.

[Radd]

Sony released SECOND. Dreamcast was first.

330848[/snapback]

Yes, but Sony killed them with hype and released at a reasonable price. Wich is a shame because the Dreamcast was not a bad system, and had an excellent library of titles. Also, the Dreamcast released at a time when people were not thinking about moving up a generation, many critisized Sega of jumping the gun. As things were, the Dreamcast was no longer competition by the time the PS2 launched. While I suppose that's possible with the 360, it would require Microsoft to suddenly drop support for their own console before the PS3 hit the market.

[JB0]

Sony released SECOND. Dreamcast was first.

330848[/snapback]

Yes, but Sony killed them with hype and released at a reasonable price. Wich is a shame because the Dreamcast was not a bad system, and had an excellent library of titles. Also, the Dreamcast released at a time when people were not thinking about moving up a generation, many critisized Sega of jumping the gun. As things were, the Dreamcast was no longer competition by the time the PS2 launched. While I suppose that's possible with the 360, it would require Microsoft to suddenly drop support for their own console before the PS3 hit the market.

330881[/snapback]

But Sony still wasn't the first out the gate on the current generation. Sega was.

[Radd]

Dreamcast kinda fits into its own sort of mid generation. Like I said, it was dead before the PS2 even launched.

[JB0]

Dreamcast kinda fits into its own sort of mid generation. Like I said, it was dead before the PS2 even launched.

330890[/snapback]

It held on for a while after PS2 launch.

And I don't see how the DC can be argued as anything other than current gen. Short-lived current-gen, sure. But still current.

[Gaijin]

Dreamcast kinda fits into its own sort of mid generation. Like I said, it was dead before the PS2 even launched.

330890[/snapback]

The DC was next gen...it just launched so early that people now view it as "mid gen". And it had a stronger launch title lineup than the PS2 did...what the PS2 had was the loyalty they had gained with PSX and a lot of people not "trusting" Sega after the Saturn and 32X. The DVD aspect of the PS2 was a big selling point for people too.

Too bad, the DC was a terrific system that was a little too early/too late. I played mine far more than my PS2 until PS2 software finally caught up.

[Jolly Rogers]

Sony's cutting 10,000 jobs as part of its restructuring effort:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-09...-job-cuts_x.htm

[Black Valkyrie]

From Planetgamecube :

G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details

Iwata expresses interest in the franchise's possibilities on the Revolution, alluding to the promotional video's sword fighting.

[Black Valkyrie]

PlayStation 3 price still being debated Edited September 28, 2005 by Black Valkyrie

[JB0]

PlayStation 3 price still being debated

Not as good to hear as "Kutaragi's whacked, we're selling this thing for *reasonable sum here*" but it beats the hell out of "not for households."

[Radd]

http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050927_190208.html

Tidbit on the whole HD DVD versus BluRay thing.

[mikeszekely]

http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050927_190208.html

Tidbit on the whole HD DVD versus BluRay thing.

332494[/snapback]

Interesting read.

[Gaijin]

MS has secretly been backing HD DVD for a long time while claming to be "neutral". Fact remains, HD DVD hardware is going to debut with much less support than previously thought, and these announcements are a tool to create a lot of doubt in the PS3 and BluRay (and hope for the "add on HD DVD" for 360) which was actually on the floor at IFA being shown and HD DVD was only shown by Toshiba (with a faulty player no less that couldn't work for more than 10 mins at a time before having to be shut off to "cool down") and ....virtually no one else.

Not to say HD DVD won't launch or anything but, this hardly puts any dent in the BDA group...MS was always believed to be on the HD DVD side of things.

If MS pulls a rabbit out and announced the 360's would ship with HD DVD drives...then I'd say the tides just turned and HD DVD found a fighting chance.

Edited September 30, 2005 by Gaijin

[Zentrandude]

MS has secretly been backing HD DVD for a long time while claming to be "neutral".  Fact remains, HD DVD hardware is going to debut with much less support than previously thought, and these announcements are a tool to create a lot of doubt in the PS3 and BluRay (and hope for the "add on HD DVD" for 360) which was actually on the floor at IFA being shown and HD DVD was only shown by Toshiba (with a faulty player no less that couldn't work for more than 10 mins at a time before having to be shut off to "cool down")  and ....virtually no one else. 

Not to say HD DVD won't launch or anything but, this hardly puts any dent in the BDA group...MS was always believed to be on the HD DVD side of things.

If MS pulls a rabbit out and announced the 360's would ship with HD DVD drives...then I'd say the tides just turned and HD DVD found a fighting chance.

332687[/snapback]

Hope that its fix or is false. nec/toshiba is planing to sell computers and laptops with hd dvd drives by the end of this year.

[Gaijin]

Fuel for the fire lol:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050929/sfth060.html?.v=32

[Zentrandude]

hmm while I agree BR holds more, that article doesn't make bit of sence at some places. how would the format offer broadband connectivity?

also

This is 67% more than HD-DVD's 30GB ROM capacity and 150% more than its recordable storage capacity -- a critical issue for computer users.

seems reduntant and confusing it sounded better the first time they said

It offers 67-150% more storage capacity

Edited September 30, 2005 by Zentrandude

[Gaijin]

hmm while I agree BR holds more, that article doesn't make bit of sence at some places.  how would the format offer broadband connectivity?

also

This is 67% more than HD-DVD's 30GB ROM capacity and 150% more than its recordable storage capacity -- a critical issue for computer users.

seems reduntant and confusing it sounded better the first time they said

It offers 67-150% more storage capacity

332730[/snapback]

Both HD DVD and BD players are expected to have some type of broadband connectivity option (sorta like how DIVX was originally supposed to work, the difference being it's not necessary). The PS3 is a prime example.

[JB0]

hmm while I agree BR holds more, that article doesn't make bit of sence at some places.  how would the format offer broadband connectivity?

also

This is 67% more than HD-DVD's 30GB ROM capacity and 150% more than its recordable storage capacity -- a critical issue for computer users.

seems reduntant and confusing it sounded better the first time they said

It offers 67-150% more storage capacity

332730[/snapback]

Both HD DVD and BD players are expected to have some type of broadband connectivity option (sorta like how DIVX was originally supposed to work, the difference being it's not necessary). The PS3 is a prime example.

332733[/snapback]

But that's a function of the sofware and hardware, not the media.

Divx was proprietary encrypted data on DVD, for example.

No one would argue DVD had internet connectivity because Divx used DVDs and called home.

So we're back to it's just stupid.

[Ishimaru]

The controllers are alot less thna $40 they just like to rip us off and make more money...Hope someone noticed this. The creaters making the PS3 and past systems have a obsession with Spider-Man I mean look at the logo on the PS3 its a Spider-Man font, they included the Spider-Man UMD Movie as a bonus for the PSP, they made Spider-Man 2 for PSP which is pretty pointless since it was made like on all systems and is boring as crap. Like what the hell?? They are probaly geeks collecting alot of Spider-Man comics while creating the Sony products with Spider-man having to do something each and every one Im not saying I hate Sony but dude put Spider-man out of site please....

330835[/snapback]

Might have something to do with the fact that Sony Pictures made the Spiderman movies?

330841[/snapback]

Doesnt the controller shape bring up anything just look at it....Spider-man geeks this is becoming my obsession man. But how is a DVD or HD DVD player supposed to have a connection or something? But anyways this brings up an idea to see if maybe your DVD is legit and playable on the player heyyyyy this could be a solution to bootlegs! Having the player scan the DVD get some connection to the server checking globaly on the DVD's identification or something it would be soo good since they can stop piracy this way...but ya think this might be adapted to 360 and PS3...dont call me stupid here .

[JB0]

Doesnt the controller shape bring up anything just look at it....

I've heard people describe it as a batarang. Or a pair of penii with buttons.

I just see a GameCube with a borked layout.

But how is a DVD or HD DVD player supposed to have a connection or something? But anyways this brings up an idea to see if maybe your DVD is legit and playable on the player heyyyyy     this could be a solution to bootlegs! Having the player scan the DVD get some connection to the server checking globaly on the DVD's identification or something it would be soo good since they can stop piracy this way...but ya think this might be adapted to 360 and PS3...dont call me stupid here .

Congratulations. You just described Divx.

Funny thing... no one bought Divx.