Which CONSOLE!?

[Gunbuster]

Well, when you invest over 10 million of your own money, would you like to be safe or adventurous?

Anyway I hope Nintendo will release a standard controller as well. I'm all for innovation, but aiming at the causal gamers and not the gamer is not a good practice as specially when gamers are your audience. its' like if the PS2 standard controller was the eyetoy (can you imagine if that had happen @_@;

Since we are talking about nintendo, I wonder how well they will do with the cube (not counting the handheld since they already kicked PSP in terms of sales) since they have pushed zelda to next year. I mean the 360 will be release and the rumor of Sony doing a price drop on the PS2 system to hinder the 360 launch. I'm so afraid for Nintendo. Is there a killer app for nintendo this x-mas?

Here'a promo of Nintendo's new controler in action.

To bad Nintendo is the only company that tries hard to innovate this sequel plagued industry. But due to low third party involment the idea will probably see little development. Making a sequel is more profitable (and safer) than trying something new...

330111[/snapback]

Edited September 20, 2005 by Gunbuster

[yellowlightman]

There's really no reason to be afraid of Nintendo. Despite seeming small compared to bigboys like Microsoft and Sony, Nintendo is FAR more profitable than either Microsoft or Sony's game divisions.

They have some weird ideas, but have logic and planning behind those ideas and haven't made any disasterous decisions since the N64 was announced to be cartridge based.

There's no reason for the Revolution to have a "regular" game controller, because it's not designed to be a "regular" game system. If you want a system that offers more of the same pick up a 360 or a PS3, the Revolution is intended to be a step in a new direction for gaming playing to the lowest common denominator isn't going to help that.

[Gunbuster]

don't forget about the Virtual boy ;;

[JB0]

don't forget about the Virtual boy  ;;

330139[/snapback]

Oddly, I was talking about that just the other day.

There's more people that hate the VB than there were VBs sold. Hell, the 32x had a longer life than the VB. There's nothing sadder than a system the 32x outlasted.

And the usual complaint is something to the effects of "OMG RED GAMEBOY THAT MELTS EYES!111"

Which is a damn good indicator of how many of them actually have any experience to base their opinion on.

I consider it one of the more tragic examples of the industry's refusal to try something new.

The VB was damn nice hardware, and it never even got it's first generation of software out the doors.

At least the Revolution has adopted a change that's readily visible in 2D media. They can advertise it.

[yellowlightman]

And the usual complaint is something to the effects of "OMG RED GAMEBOY THAT MELTS EYES!111" 

Which is a damn good indicator of how many of them actually have any experience to base their opinion on.

330143[/snapback]

For serious. The monochrome color scheme wasn't anything amazing, but putting on some headphones and playing a Virtual Boy game was a very engrossing experience. Also, people fail to keep in mind that the VB was never intended to be a replacement for GB or the main SNES... it was something in-between.

But hey... it's cool to hate the VB on the internet.

[Gunbuster]

That's what I'm talking about. Everyones says innovate, but when you do, no one buys @_@;;

You guys must have heard about the XaviX XaviXPORT, right? very similar to what they are doing with the revolution and that remote controller.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?sk...d=1087340764150

If nintendo is after this audience then I'm really afraid ;;

[yellowlightman]

The thing is, just about every gamer I've talked to is at least intrigued by the Revolution. And honestly, why wouldn't they be? Videogames are stagnating with tons of sequels and the same old stuff... I've guessing that most gamers, hardcore or casual, would be interested in something new.

[JB0]

That's what I'm talking about. Everyones says innovate, but when you do, no one buys @_@;;

Yah.

Same with software.

People demand something fresh and new. Enter Beyond Good and Evil. Gets rave reviews, but everyone waits for it to hit the discount bin because it's not one of those big-name franchises they rant about.

Game sells dismally, and the rest of the trilogy is cancelled.

You guys must have heard about the XaviX XaviXPORT, right? very similar to what they are doing with the revolution and that remote controller.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?sk...d=1087340764150

'Cept the Xavix was only looking at sports games.

Also, the game deck on the Xavix is a dumb box, if I recall. I may have it mixed up with something else, but I seem to remember one of it's features being that the hardware was in the software cartridge, so it'd "never be obsolete."

[Radd]

its' like if the PS2 standard controller was the eyetoy (can you imagine if that had happen @_@;

330128[/snapback]

Well, no, it's more like if the PS2 shipped with a keyboard and mouse as it's standard controller. Except the keyboard was streamlined down to only those buttons you'd need for games, and it fit comfortably in your hand.

[Gunbuster]

What I meant from that line was if a system came standard with a "unique" input controller. Imagine what games we would be playing today or if the PS2 would have surived. Mouse and keyboard are "standard controls" now a days (even a stripdown keyboard version) I can still handle that.

I wonder how fighting games like Street fighter, Tekken, Virtual Fighter, Soul Calibur, etc.. will be handle with the revolution controller

[JB0]

What I meant from that line was if a system came standard with a "unique" input controller.

You mean like the NES?

Imagine what games we would be playing today or if the PS2 would have surived.

There's a signifigant diffrence between the Eyetoy and Rev wand.

Namely that one might actually work decently(the people that've used it to date say it does).

I wonder how fighting games like Street fighter, Tekken, Virtual Fighter, Soul Calibur, etc.. will be handle with the revolution controller 

Probably not well. 4 button ones may play passably with the analog stick attached.

But really... if you're playing fighting games, there's no excuse to not buy a joystick, regardless of what system you're on.

Edited September 21, 2005 by JB0

[Radd]

Imagine what games we would be playing today or if the PS2 would have surived. Mouse and keyboard are "standard controls" now a days (even a stripdown keyboard version) I can still handle that.

330219[/snapback]

If you're fine with a mouse/keyboard combo, then I don't see why you'd have a problem with the Revolution's controller. Have you read anything about it or how it works?

[yellowlightman]

I wonder how fighting games like Street fighter, Tekken, Virtual Fighter, Soul Calibur, etc.. will be handle with the revolution controller 

330219[/snapback]

You're still missing the point of the Revolution. Those fighters won't be on the system, at least not in their current form.

[sabretooth]

at first i said sweet poo this is retarded, but after seeing the video....it could be freaking sweet! imagine a flight sim (ace combat ) with those controls.....

[Fort Max]

What I meant from that line was if a system came standard with a "unique" input controller. Imagine what games we would be playing today or if the PS2 would have surived. Mouse and keyboard are "standard controls" now a days (even a stripdown keyboard version) I can still handle that.

I wonder how fighting games like Street fighter, Tekken, Virtual Fighter, Soul Calibur, etc.. will be handle with the revolution controller 

330219[/snapback]

We'd have to actually learn martial arts in order to play the game, wouldn't that be terrible.

I look forward to this idea selling well and nintendo expanding it to include a "wand" for each limb or some such idea.

Kind of a stripped down home version of those virtual reality machines that used to be all the rage in sci-fi.

I also like the idea of a sword fighting game where you have to really train just to be able to play it well.

[Radd]

You're still missing the point of the Revolution. Those fighters won't be on the system, at least not in their current form.

330241[/snapback]

I think the Revolution will still see ports of traditional fighting games, making use of the oldstyle controller attachment, Gamecube controllers, or the preferred arcade stick.

[Gaijin]

Hmmmm...interesting:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/...p(que)id=125925

Quote:

Unreal Tournament was 6GB compressed. Next Generation games are going to be 20GB plus, and how we're going to fit them on DVD9's I don't know, they'll probably be a few of them. On the PS3, we're going to be using the majority of the space on those Blu-ray disks.

Sure multiple DVD's on 360 will come into play but, I wonder if we'll see it become more of a problem down the road. PS3's Blu Ray beginning to look real handy as I predicted.

[Anubis]

Based on the new awesome control setup the Revolution will use I might be inclined to buy that system now. Still have zero interest in the Xbox or PS3.

[JB0]

Hmmmm...interesting:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/...p(que)id=125925

Quote:

Unreal Tournament was 6GB compressed. Next Generation games are going to be 20GB plus, and how we're going to fit them on DVD9's I don't know, they'll probably be a few of them. On the PS3, we're going to be using the majority of the space on those Blu-ray disks.

Sure multiple DVD's on 360 will come into play but, I wonder if we'll see it become more of a problem down the road.  PS3's Blu Ray beginning to look real handy as I predicted.

330257[/snapback]

The Rev bypasses this problem in a somewhat disappointing way. It has no support for anything above 480p. Limited resolution = limited detail = limited need for higher-res resources.

[Black Valkyrie]

The NR will be too busy with flash ram sticks or whatever they called it .

[Kin]

I think the choice of a console is based on the games they offer... period.

[Black Valkyrie]

What I like to if the NES games for the NR will update in graphics cuz I read it before but not sure.

[mikeszekely]

Hmmmm...interesting:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/...p(que)id=125925

Quote:

Unreal Tournament was 6GB compressed. Next Generation games are going to be 20GB plus, and how we're going to fit them on DVD9's I don't know, they'll probably be a few of them. On the PS3, we're going to be using the majority of the space on those Blu-ray disks.

Sure multiple DVD's on 360 will come into play but, I wonder if we'll see it become more of a problem down the road.  PS3's Blu Ray beginning to look real handy as I predicted.

330257[/snapback]

I think going from a 6GB PC game to a 20GB console game is quite a stretch.

I don't doubt that games will get bigger, especially if they have a lot of pre-rendered cut scenes and high-def video. But I'll point out again that 99.9% of the games being released on the current hardware do not extend beyond a DVD-5. Even some of the biggest games you can think of, like San Andreas, come on DVD-5s. X-Men Legends II (PS2) doesn't even reach 2GB (throw it in a DVD-ROM and have DVDecrypter take a peek at it). I'll even point out that some games, like Lego Star Wars (PS2) are still shipping on CD-ROMs.

If the average current-gen console game is around 3GB, then the average game size can TRIPLE and still fit on a DVD-9. Sure a few games will wind up being two discs, just like a few current gen games spill on to DVD-9s. But there will be plenty that have room to spare, too. And, while I respect a lot of Mark Rein's opinions, especially about the pricing of games and how used game sales can have a negative impact on the industry, I sincerely doubt that console games will hit 20GB any time soon.

As JB0 point out earlier, just rendering a cut-scene in-engine instead of using a high-def prerendered video can reduce the size of a game.

[Druna Skass]

So what are the chances of Sony making some kind of external Blue Ray burner for PCs? It'll be nice being able to back up my computer on one disk. Or go to my friend's comp and get all his videos and MP3s on one disk.

[JB0]

So what are the chances of Sony making some kind of external Blue Ray burner for PCs? It'll be nice being able to back up my computer on one disk. Or go to my friend's comp and get all his videos and MP3s on one disk.

330470[/snapback]

Fairly minimal.

Either way... internals for the win.

And if all your friend's videos and music can fit in 25 GB(single layer), you need better friends.

[Druna Skass]

And if all your friend's videos and music can fit in 25 GB(single layer), you need better friends. 

330501[/snapback]

What, my friends have too much of a life?

The 60 GB internal HD on my laptop is pretty loaded. A disk that could hold up to 50 GB would come in handy. Well since these disks aren't out, externals for my win.

Edited September 22, 2005 by Druna Skass

[JB0]

And if all your friend's videos and music can fit in 25 GB(single layer), you need better friends. 

330501[/snapback]

What, my friends have too much of a life?

Sure.

The 60 GB internal HD on my laptop is pretty loaded. A disk that could hold up to 50 GB would come in handy. Well since these disks aren't out, externals for my win.

330502[/snapback]

Ah, a laptop.

Externals for the win, I suppose.

[Gaijin]

Hmmmm...interesting:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/...p(que)id=125925

Quote:

Unreal Tournament was 6GB compressed. Next Generation games are going to be 20GB plus, and how we're going to fit them on DVD9's I don't know, they'll probably be a few of them. On the PS3, we're going to be using the majority of the space on those Blu-ray disks.

Sure multiple DVD's on 360 will come into play but, I wonder if we'll see it become more of a problem down the road.  PS3's Blu Ray beginning to look real handy as I predicted.

330257[/snapback]

I think going from a 6GB PC game to a 20GB console game is quite a stretch.

I don't doubt that games will get bigger, especially if they have a lot of pre-rendered cut scenes and high-def video. But I'll point out again that 99.9% of the games being released on the current hardware do not extend beyond a DVD-5. Even some of the biggest games you can think of, like San Andreas, come on DVD-5s. X-Men Legends II (PS2) doesn't even reach 2GB (throw it in a DVD-ROM and have DVDecrypter take a peek at it). I'll even point out that some games, like Lego Star Wars (PS2) are still shipping on CD-ROMs.

If the average current-gen console game is around 3GB, then the average game size can TRIPLE and still fit on a DVD-9. Sure a few games will wind up being two discs, just like a few current gen games spill on to DVD-9s. But there will be plenty that have room to spare, too. And, while I respect a lot of Mark Rein's opinions, especially about the pricing of games and how used game sales can have a negative impact on the industry, I sincerely doubt that console games will hit 20GB any time soon.

As JB0 point out earlier, just rendering a cut-scene in-engine instead of using a high-def prerendered video can reduce the size of a game.

330428[/snapback]

My main point being was the argument earlier in the thread about Blu Ray being an un needed cost as well as pretty much pointless. Just because some games fit on CD's today or don't fill a DVD doesn't mean that there is no point in having the capacity. Some games will need them..not all but some will. The 360's DVD dual layered discs will only hold 7GB total 3.5 GB per layer...the extra space is being used for "Security purposes". And while that might suffice for a lot of games...what about the ones that won't? The other thing with the increased capacity that has some people excited is the module that the UMD discs are starting to emerge with..game and a movie on one disc...if this applies to BDRom with PS3, the avg joe will eat it up. A few years ago, 200GB HD's were considered excessive...hell, remember when people thought 10-20GB's was crazy?

And while doing things to cut the size of the game makes sense to us...when have the game companies ever done things that made sense?

All in all, it's not a bad thing to have the extra capacity. If they did, we'd have never bothered with going from Carts to CD's to DVD's....

[Radd]

I don't believe that extra capacity is a bad thing, it's simply a matter of weighing the costs versus the actual benefits. As long as we still see games like Katamari Damacy coming out, I have absolutely nothing against the potential for better graphics.

Back to the Revolution controller, here's another article on it:

http://wired.com/news/games/0,2101,68869,00.html

And here's a web forum thread where the person who wrote the article answers some more specific questions and tries to set the record straight about all the misinformation flying around:

http://ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=63993&page=1&pp=50

[Zentrandude]

And if all your friend's videos and music can fit in 25 GB(single layer), you need better friends. 

330501[/snapback]

What, my friends have too much of a life?

Sure.

The 60 GB internal HD on my laptop is pretty loaded. A disk that could hold up to 50 GB would come in handy. Well since these disks aren't out, externals for my win.

330502[/snapback]

Ah, a laptop.

Externals for the win, I suppose.

330512[/snapback]

boo for externals. if some reason pres of sony desides to release specs for a burner for blue-ray they better make a slim type so i can just swap out my old dvd-r one in my laptop.

proly would need to update my bios to support it.

[yellowlightman]

Considering how hard Sony tries to fight piracy (in games, movies and music) I doubt they'd be rushing to release a Blu-Ray burner as that would only aid pirates and bootleggers.

[waters7]

Considering how hard Sony tries to fight piracy (in games, movies and music) I doubt they'd be rushing to release a Blu-Ray burner as that would only aid pirates and bootleggers.

You know, back on the Beta days, one of the main things that turned customers away from the format was, the limited amount of time available on each tape for recording. One of the main things that caught the attetion of the customer towards the VHS format, was the capibility of recording for longer periods of time on 1 tape. If sony wants to dominate the market, they must, by all reasons, allow the production of blue ray burners, because, this factor (even though it might not sound that important), it's a plus for a lot of people that like to record their shows.

I know, there is TIVO out there, but when it comes to recording to actual media (CD, DVD, VHS, etc.), there still are a lot of people who would rater have a tape or DVD.

[Jolly Rogers]

My main point being was the argument earlier in the thread about Blu Ray being an un needed cost as well as pretty much pointless.  Just because some games fit on CD's today or don't fill a DVD doesn't mean that there is no point in having the capacity. Some games will need them..not all but some will.  The  360's DVD dual layered discs will only hold 7GB total 3.5 GB per layer...the extra space is being used for "Security purposes".  And while that might suffice for a lot of games...what about the ones that won't? The other thing with the increased capacity that has some people excited is the module that the UMD discs are starting to emerge with..game and a movie on one disc...if this applies to BDRom with PS3, the avg joe will eat it up.  A few years ago, 200GB HD's were considered excessive...hell, remember when people thought 10-20GB's was crazy? 

And while doing things to cut the size of the game makes sense to us...when have the game companies ever done things that made sense?

All in all, it's not a bad thing to have the extra capacity.  If they did, we'd have never bothered with going from Carts to CD's to DVD's....

330524[/snapback]

Except the primary reason games went from carts to CDs was the lowered cost and better response time to demand, which translates to higher profit for the publishers.

They can always make a game multi-disc if space runs out. I don't see multi-disc games being a deterrent to the millions who bought games like Final Fantasy VII.

Game developers who whine about lack of disc space are just making excuses for rushing a half-baked product out of the door.

[JB0]

My main point being was the argument earlier in the thread about Blu Ray being an un needed cost as well as pretty much pointless.  Just because some games fit on CD's today or don't fill a DVD doesn't mean that there is no point in having the capacity. Some games will need them..not all but some will.  The  360's DVD dual layered discs will only hold 7GB total 3.5 GB per layer...the extra space is being used for "Security purposes".  And while that might suffice for a lot of games...what about the ones that won't? The other thing with the increased capacity that has some people excited is the module that the UMD discs are starting to emerge with..game and a movie on one disc...if this applies to BDRom with PS3, the avg joe will eat it up.  A few years ago, 200GB HD's were considered excessive...hell, remember when people thought 10-20GB's was crazy? 

And while doing things to cut the size of the game makes sense to us...when have the game companies ever done things that made sense?

All in all, it's not a bad thing to have the extra capacity.  If they did, we'd have never bothered with going from Carts to CD's to DVD's....

330524[/snapback]

Except the primary reason games went from carts to CDs was the lowered cost and better response time to demand, which translates to higher profit for the publishers.

The space-to-cost ratio being VERY favorable next to ROMs was the primary reason.

Which let them make much larger games, as well as cheaper ones(though they never DID pass the savings on like they promised).

They can always make a game multi-disc if space runs out.  I don't see multi-disc games being a deterrent to the millions who bought games like Final Fantasy VII.

Which raises an interesting point... We were filling entire CDs shortly after the media became available.

Multi-DVD games are VERY uncommon, and the game industry currently only uses half the capacity of each disk(as they refuse to pay for the dual-layer manufacturing process).

[Gaijin]

Except the primary reason games went from carts to CDs was the lowered cost and better response time to demand, which translates to higher profit for the publishers.

They can always make a game multi-disc if space runs out.  I don't see multi-disc games being a deterrent to the millions who bought games like Final Fantasy VII.

Game developers who whine about lack of disc space are just making excuses for rushing a half-baked product out of the door.

330683[/snapback]

And they quickly used up that space it provided.

Multi-DVD games are VERY uncommon, and the game industry currently only uses half the capacity of each disk(as they refuse to pay for the dual-layer manufacturing process).

True most do not right now. But right now, the cost of 2 dual layer DVD's is equivalent to the cost of a single Blu Ray disc...(actually almost close to $2 at this early stage and expected to be less than $1 by the time next year rolls around). Cost will pay for itself in the long run...and the other reason BluRay is excpected to do well with the game industry as well is the increased security over DVD's. Which is a big thing for the film and game industry whether we think it's a problem or not...they do and they will do everything they can to protect their content. Audio quality can be improved as well (which anyone with a HT system knows is sorely lacking in console and PC titles today).

Bottom line is you are correct in your arguments, however the industry will move on. Avg Joe won't really care or know anyways...but what I'm saying is there's really nothing wrong in having too much capacity available, however not having too much certainly can be at times.

Edited September 22, 2005 by Gaijin