Which CONSOLE!?

[mikeszekely]

Xenosaga 2 was 2 DVD's, Ace Combat 5 was crammed to capacity...having more won't hurt in the long run. True, it won't mean better games, but if you give them more than they need it's better than them having to cram, cut, or take out stuff in a few years.

Ace Combat 5 fit neatly on a single layer DVD. And Xenosaga II was on two single layer DVDs. It could just as easily fit on one single layer DVD, as the first one did. Or, they could have trimmed down the ridiculous number of long cut scenes. Games are still a way from filling up the DVD medium. Most PSone games fit on a single CD, and most of the multiple disc games fit on two (seemed like it was mostly Square RPGs that needed more, although I'm sure some of you can think of a few more). To this day, PS2 games like Lego Star Wars are still released on CD. Perhaps, near the end of the next generation, we might start to see games one two dual layer DVDs, or combination or dual and single... and maybe then I'll concede the need to move to a new format. I mean, the only reason why a new format is being called for at all is for the movie industry... regular DVDs aren't high definition.

Dual Layer DVD's...sure, but even nowadays, some movie studios try to avoid them and go for 2 discs.

Movie studios LOVE dual layer DVDs. You'll be hard pressed to find a movie released on a single layer disc after 2002. When movie studios go for two discs, it's usually one dual layer for the movie, and another for the extras (I think they're dual layer two, but I haven't taken the time to look at many of those). On the few movies that I can think of that do span multiple discs, like the extended Lord of the Rings and Schindler's List, both discs for the movie are dual layer.

In any case, Microsoft is pretty firm on the fact that Xbox 360 games will be DVD and DVD only... not Blu-Ray, not HD-DVD. Slightly less firm is the price, although J. Allard said it would be "around $300." I'll be willing to bet that it'll be $299.99, since that's the sweet spot. Slightly less firm than that is backwards compatibility. AFAIK, there was never an official "no." There were industry people that talked about how different the hardware was, and how unlikely it would be. But Microsoft's official statement has been "it will be backwards compatible with the best-selling Xbox games." Their unofficial statement is that they were trying to get all Xbox games to work on the 360, but as JB0 already mentioned, they want to avoid any backlash if a more obscure game, say, Otogi, didn't play.

I'm going by what I see.

Even idiotic stuff, like putting a deathmatch mode into Metroid Prime 2 because so many people complained that Prime 1 didn't have one.

I think that has more to do with Retro Studios, an American company, than Nintendo, or more specifically, Satoru Iwata.

It's a logical move. I still think Nintendo wants the hardcore market too, though.

I don't think it is. Making games for non-gamers seems to me like making TVs for the Amish. If Nintendo were really concerned about expaning their market, they'd go after the casual gamer, the mainstream that Sony and Microsoft have been after. I do have to concede that Nintendogs is selling like prunes on senior citizen discount day, though.

And for the record, Nintendo has done a remarkable job of creating software that appeals to a remarkable large audience... but I've never really thought of them as making games for the hardcore. If there's one name that really springs to mind for that, it'd be Sega.

Is that necessarily a bad thing?

I definately don't have a problem with parents getting involved with what their children are doing, or even trying to play their children's games. And while I admit that I do like games like WarioWare, I like them like I enjoy an appetizer before I get to the main course. And while you're right to say that games like that aren't all they do, they're all they have been doing for the DS, which I see as the first victim of Iwata's "simplification" kick. So, yeah, I think that this simplification thing is like dumbing down games to make them more appealing to non-gamers, and I see that coming at the expense of a truly engaging game.

I don't know that it'll be the same for the Revolution. Supposedly, Metroid Prime 3, an newer Zelda, a new Mario, and a new Smash Bros are in the works for it, and I expect that they'll play similiarly to their Gamecube and N64 siblings. Regardless of what gimmicks are attached to the Revolution, development teams seem to be forging ahead as if it's a tradition console. And to tell you the truth, this is one of those cases where I'd love to be wrong. I mean, I grew up on Nintendo, and so far I've owned every Nintendo game system save the Virtual Boy. I'd love to see them come out with a new console that gets me excited the way the SNES did. But I have to admit, I haven't cared for the their last two consoles, and I've been extremely dissapointed with the DS. I've learned to seperate Nintendo the kick-ass software developer from Nintendo the poor hardware company that chased off their third party support. And I've definately come to feel that Satoru Iwata is the reason that Nintendo is in third.

[Skull Leader]

Like Mike, I'd definately like to see a change in Nintendo's marketing and sales strategy. They lost me after the SNES (I still remember hoping and praying that a CD add-on was made for the SNES) and they haven't picked me back up yet. I thrived on sega for about a year after and picked up my first playstation soon after it came out. I haven't looked back since.

I owned the NES, SMS, SNES, and Genesis and of the 4, NES/SNES got way more playtime... It wasn't that I hated the other two (in fact, I always had the opinion that the SMS was twice the gaming system that the NES was, although I didn't have any hard proof or facts to formulate that). It was just that Nintendo games had a certain "something" about them that made them more appealing.

Admittedly, Nintendo has come a long way in some respects, but I will say that I think they've lost something in the translation and I think Mike picked up on that.

Nintendo: Forever the king of the 2D platformer... maybe they should consider a rebirth?

(disclaimer: my actual favorite 2D platformer was Castlevania: SotN, but Nintendo pumped out 2D platform games like no one's business)

Edited June 3, 2005 by Skull Leader

[JB0]

I'm going by what I see.

Even idiotic stuff, like putting a deathmatch mode into Metroid Prime 2 because so many people complained that Prime 1 didn't have one.

I think that has more to do with Retro Studios, an American company, than Nintendo, or more specifically, Satoru Iwata.

Thought Nintendo bought Retro Studios up after Prime 1.

It's a logical move. I still think Nintendo wants the hardcore market too, though.

I don't think it is. Making games for non-gamers seems to me like making TVs for the Amish. If Nintendo were really concerned about expaning their market, they'd go after the casual gamer, the mainstream that Sony and Microsoft have been after.

Sony got where they are now by pursuing the casual gamers and non-gamers.

The key to the PS1's success wasn't hardcore stuff. It was sports games and FMV eyecandy.

And for the record, Nintendo has done a remarkable job of creating software that appeals to a remarkable large audience... but I've never really thought of them as making games for the hardcore.  If there's one name that really springs to mind for that, it'd be Sega.

True. Sega is awesome. And I wish they still made hardware. Was nice to see a system with 1st-party arcade sticks and exotic peripherals(TWIN STICKS YAY!).

I guess Nintendo's "hardcore" appeal depends on how you look at things.

I like that they keep trying new stuff. For all their faults, Mario Sunshine and Luigi's Mansion WEREN'T straight copies of Mario 64(I have no desire to own any of the 3, though).

...

On the other hand, they refuse to do a proper port of arcade Donkey Kong(prefering instead to keep feeding the same 1st-gen NES game back out), and are pretending DK Jr. and non-Super Mario Brothers never happened. Heck, their entire retro lineup has been lacking. One aspect-borked NES game on your GBA for 20$! YAY!

At least they're doing the retro console stuff right on the Revolution. Still curious as to what all 3rd-party software's gonna be there. One can only hope that they'll score some of the "cult classics" as well as the big name hits. Metal Storm, Blaster Master, and Crystalis are every bit as good as Gradius, Contra, and Ninja Gaiden. And if that happens... PLEASE let it be the NES Crystalis, not the GBC version!

Is that necessarily a bad thing?

I definately don't have a problem with parents getting involved with what their children are doing, or even trying to play their children's games. And while I admit that I do like games like WarioWare, I like them like I enjoy an appetizer before I get to the main course. And while you're right to say that games like that aren't all they do, they're all they have been doing for the DS, which I see as the first victim of Iwata's "simplification" kick. So, yeah, I think that this simplification thing is like dumbing down games to make them more appealing to non-gamers, and I see that coming at the expense of a truly engaging game.

Fair enough.

Personally, I think the DS is still picking up steam. We're seeing the simple games because they're the first ones done.

...

Freaking HELL! ANOTHER damned Silver Star Story remake?

STOP RAPING THE LICENSE, GAME ARTS!

At least they can't touch my SegaCD.

On a positive note, it looks like Metroid DS is coming out in October. Only a year after they turned the demo loose on everyone.

I don't know that it'll be the same for the Revolution.  Supposedly, Metroid Prime 3, an newer Zelda, a new Mario, and a new Smash Bros are in the works for it, and I expect that they'll play similiarly to their Gamecube and N64 siblings.  Regardless of what gimmicks are attached to the Revolution, development teams seem to be forging ahead as if it's a tradition console.

And with luck, Nintendo will make a larger effort to get 3rd party developers this time.

And to tell you the truth, this is one of those cases where I'd love to be wrong. 

That makes 2 of us.

I mean, I grew up on Nintendo, and so far I've owned every Nintendo game system save the Virtual Boy.

I own TWO Virtual Boys.

...

But one was knocked out of alignment when someone broke into the house. Hence the second unit, as it was cheaper to replace than fix at the time.

SNES was my first modern console. Hopping from a Vectrex, 99/4a computer, and 3rd-hand 2600 to SNES was an amazing leap. Even if the 99/4a DID have a lot of speech.

I'd love to see them come out with a new console that gets me excited the way the SNES did.  But I have to admit, I haven't cared for the their last two consoles, and I've been extremely dissapointed with the DS. 

Someday I'll get an N64. There's a few titles on that I want pretty bad(Blast Corps, Mischief Makers).

And as I've said before, I really like my 'Cube. It was my first current gen console because it had the stuff I most wanted to play.

Even if one of the big reasons was Capcom's perpetual bargin-bin title PN03. WHICH KICKS ASS, SO THERE! *PBBBTH*

I've learned to seperate Nintendo the kick-ass software developer from Nintendo the poor hardware company that chased off their third party support.  And I've definately come to feel that Satoru Iwata is the reason that Nintendo is in third.

Second worldwide! (Never mind this is largely because Japan treats the XBox worse than the GBA-nonSP, which sadly isn't even in manufacture anymore.)

Really, though, with second so far from first, it doesn't matter. It's like complaining because the Atari 7800 didn't outsell the Sega Master System.

...

Okay, it's not THAT bad. But both companies are still pretty close to each other, and pretty far from Sony.

Edited June 3, 2005 by JB0

[Gaijin]

Ace Combat 5 fit neatly on a single layer DVD.  And Xenosaga II was on two single layer DVDs.  It could just as easily fit on one single layer DVD, as the first one did.  Or, they could have trimmed down the ridiculous number of long cut scenes.  Games are still a way from filling up the DVD medium.  Most PSone games fit on a single CD, and most of the multiple disc games fit on two (seemed like it was mostly Square RPGs that needed more, although I'm sure some of you can think of a few more).  To this day, PS2 games like Lego Star Wars are still released on CD.  Perhaps, near the end of the next generation, we might start to see games one two dual layer DVDs, or combination or dual and single... and maybe then I'll concede the need to move to a new format.  I mean, the only reason why a new format is being called for at all is for the movie industry... regular DVDs aren't high definition.

Movie studios LOVE dual layer DVDs.  You'll be hard pressed to find a movie released on a single layer disc after 2002.  When movie studios go for two discs, it's usually one dual layer for the movie, and another for the extras (I think they're dual layer two, but I haven't taken the time to look at many of those).  On the few movies that I can think of that do span multiple discs, like the extended Lord of the Rings and Schindler's List, both discs for the movie are dual layer.

In any case, Microsoft is pretty firm on the fact that Xbox 360 games will be DVD and DVD only... not Blu-Ray, not HD-DVD.  Slightly less firm is the price, although J. Allard said it would be "around $300."  I'll be willing to bet that it'll be $299.99, since that's the sweet spot.  Slightly less firm than that is backwards compatibility.  AFAIK, there was never an official "no."  There were industry people that talked about how different the hardware was, and how unlikely it would be.  But Microsoft's official statement has been "it will be backwards compatible with the best-selling Xbox games."  Their unofficial statement is that they were trying to get all Xbox games to work on the 360, but as JB0 already mentioned, they want to avoid any backlash if a more obscure game, say, Otogi, didn't play.

But what IS the harm in having the option to do so? Most games will be on DVD, but if the need arises, they have the option of a higher capacity disc. Might seem to be overkill and something the consumer won't want to pay for but, for me, I want the High Def Player (admittedly, prob a mediocre one but, until they are mainstream I prob won't buy one right away). There is nothing wrong with having the option in the future as we cannot predict it. When I'm off duty, I carry extra ammo on me and, I may never need it. But I would never say I would never need it. I'd rather have it and not use it, then not have it and need it.

And after the PS2 was announced with DVD capability, it was said again that few games will be on DVD; that most could fit on a simple CD. While many can, many today do not and use DVD. With more powerful and complex systems we'll see games with longer cut scenes (I have this eeeeeery feeling FMV will come back in the form of High Def cut scenes from films), more "extras" (Some companies are thinking of doing more DVD movie like things for games like extras not on a seperate disc...lame but you see where this market is going)etc. Sega going with their Dreamcast 1GB GD-ROM would have been sorely lacking for many titles if they had stayed alive(and I wish they still made hardware too). All I'm saying is that it can't really hurt and when prices begin to drop, the drive cost becomes a more moot point (DVD faced the same argument).

They were firm on DVD only until after E3 where, Steve Ballmer addresses that they "haven't announced anything yet". Like I said, I believe DVD only too, and smell smoke being blown up our butts on that front. This interview has XBox fans in heaven for some reason. I don't ususally take Ballmer for anything he says but with the 360, I wonder if they really are going that route in the future...a second 360 with an upgraded drive which would piss off a hell of a lot of people.

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000597043723/

And I agree with the backwards compatibility statement...just the fact that the average consumer will take that info as being able to ditch their previous system and play the old games on the new. You know I'm right on that count, there are people out there that will complain if it isn't even if it says it will only work with 10 games, because they will make a marketing point out of that fact, like at their E3 press conference (and is it just me or was MS's press conference really boring with the "Velocity Girl" non gamer designing shirts and skate park levels & selling them on Live announcement...they spent a large portion of the conference making that point). Having the staged crowd didn't do anything to inspire confidence in me either.

As for Sony, tech demos are tech demos...they show off what the console can do, but it's not a game. If their trailers even look remotely close to what they showed, I'll be very happy indeed (hopeful but not counting on it).

Edited June 3, 2005 by Gaijin

[JB0]

But what IS the harm in having the option to do so? Most games will be on DVD, but if the need arises, they have the option of a higher capacity disc. Might seem to be overkill and something the consumer won't want to pay for but, for me, I want the High Def Player (admittedly, prob a mediocre one but, until they are mainstream I prob won't buy one right away). There is nothing wrong with having the option in the future as we cannot predict it.

A. Higher cost.

B. At this point, it'd be one of 2 standards, neither of which is guaranteed to be the winner. It'll suck for MS if they use HD-DVD, BluRay wins, and they start having trouble finding HD-DVD plants to stamp their disks.

And after the PS2 was announced with DVD capability, it was said again that few games will be on DVD; that most could fit on a simple CD.  While many can, many today do not and use DVD.

But not a full DVD.

People were filling CDs on the PS1. And the SegaCD. And the *insert CD-based system/add-on here*.

CDs were maxed out pretty fast. DVD is still running half-empty.

  With more powerful and complex systems we'll see games with longer cut scenes (I have this eeeeeery feeling FMV will come back in the form of High Def cut scenes from films),

Actually, FMV is dying off again.

The real-time graphics are getting good enough that there's no advantage over the in-game models.

Sega going with their Dreamcast 1GB  GD-ROM would have been sorely lacking for many titles if they had stayed alive(and I wish they still made hardware too). 

There were a few 2-disk GD-ROM games. I think 3 of them.

All I'm saying is that it can't really hurt and when prices begin to drop, the drive cost becomes a more moot point (DVD faced the same argument).

It CAN hurt if you pick the wrong drive.

As for Sony, tech demos are tech demos...they show off what the console can do, but it's not a game.  If their trailers even look remotely close to what they showed, I'll be very happy indeed (hopeful but not counting on it).

Sony didn't even have tech demos. Well, not PS3 tech demos.

They had demos running on A nVidia chipset, but not the one going in the PS3. It was a pair of nVidia's next PC chipset, running in SLI mode.

Fair bit more power than the PS3 will have, if for no other reason than the PS3 only has 1 chip.

[mikeszekely]

Thought Nintendo bought Retro Studios up after Prime 1.

AFAIK, Nintendo owned them before or during the development of Prime 1. Who owns them isn't the point. Satoru Iwata didn't fly to Retro's HQ and make them put the deathmatch mode in Prime 2, that was Retro's choice. And Retro giving fans what they want isn't the same as Nintendo doing it.

Second worldwide! (Never mind this is largely because Japan treats the XBox worse than the GBA-nonSP, which sadly isn't even in manufacture anymore.)

Last time I looked, the Xbox was second worldwide, with solid 2nd place showings in the US and Europe. Nintendo was only second in Japan.

Sony got where they are now by pursuing the casual gamers and non-gamers.

I think it was more casual gamers than non-gamers. I think about it like this... what's the point of making a car for a non-driver? But a casual driver, sure. I think a lot of those sports gamers are casual gamers. And that's really what I'm getting at. If Nintendo wouldn't be so afraid to go after that casual gamer audience that Microsoft and Sony are after, they very well could have a solid second-place showing.

For all their faults, Mario Sunshine and Luigi's Mansion WEREN'T straight copies of Mario 64

Luigi's Mansion, sure. But Mario Sunshine? Take out the over-sized squirt gun, and it was nearly identical. Likewise, take out the brighter atmosphere and cel-shaded look, and Windwaker was damn near the same as Ocarina. Donkey Konga is a rip of of Taiko the Drum Master, and while we're mentioning it, Namco did the last Star Fox.

But that's really besides the point. Like I said, I like a lot of Nintendo's software. I love the 2D Marios, Kirby, and yes, I do like Pokemon. Go figure. My gripe is really with their hardware, or more specifically, with the direction Iwata is taking the company.

Personally, I think the DS is still picking up steam. We're seeing the simple games because they're the first ones done.

That's partly true. But the DS has been out for a good six months now. And Feel the Magic and WarioWare are still the best games on it. By contrast, the PSP hasn't been out quite as long, and while it's still lacking a killer ap, and it has way too many sports and racing games, those games show a bit more polish. And, I think Death Jr. will be out before any major DS release.

Even if one of the big reasons was Capcom's perpetual bargin-bin title PN03. WHICH KICKS ASS, SO THERE!

Capcom is actually one my favorite, if not the favorite developer.

Anyway, like I said, I really do hope I'm wrong. I really would like to see Nintendo release a truly kick-ass console this time around. But as long as Iwata is at the helm, I'll be a little pessimistic.

[CoryHolmes]

Nintendo: Forever the king of the 2D platformer... maybe they should consider a rebirth?

(disclaimer: my actual favorite 2D platformer was Castlevania: SotN, but Nintendo pumped out 2D platform games like no one's business)

Bah, Bionic Commando, all the way.

[JB0]

Thought Nintendo bought Retro Studios up after Prime 1.

AFAIK, Nintendo owned them before or during the development of Prime 1.

I was under the impression they were an independent 3rd party developer before Prime 1 hit the shelves.

Who owns them isn't the point.  Satoru Iwata didn't fly to Retro's HQ and make them put the deathmatch mode in Prime 2, that was Retro's choice.  And Retro giving fans what they want isn't the same as Nintendo doing it.

The way I see it, Retro as it exists now is just another Nintendo development team.

...

As is evidenced by the fact that Prime 2's suitless Samus was that danged Zero Mission character design instead of an extension of the beauty they created for Prime 1's helmetless shot.

Second worldwide! (Never mind this is largely because Japan treats the XBox worse than the GBA-nonSP, which sadly isn't even in manufacture anymore.)

Last time I looked, the Xbox was second worldwide, with solid 2nd place showings in the US and Europe. Nintendo was only second in Japan.

Maybe I missed something.

Last I'd seen Nintendo was slightly ahead worldwide.

Like I said, they're so close it doesn't matter.

Sony got where they are now by pursuing the casual gamers and non-gamers.

I think it was more casual gamers than non-gamers.

I think about it like this... what's the point of making a car for a non-driver?

Because if you can convince them they need to drive, then you've got more sales.

I think a lot of those sports gamers are casual gamers. 

Sports gamers were already on the Genesis.

PS1 did a lot better than the Genny did.

It expanded the market greatly, by making a lot of non-gamers into casual gamers.

For all their faults, Mario Sunshine and Luigi's Mansion WEREN'T straight copies of Mario 64

Luigi's Mansion, sure. But Mario Sunshine? Take out the over-sized squirt gun, and it was nearly identical.

I thought the squirt gun was generally considered as having a major impact on game play. My mistake.

Likewise, take out the brighter atmosphere and cel-shaded look, and Windwaker was damn near the same as Ocarina.

Except they forced Windwaker out incomplete, and delayed Ocarina of Time untill it was ready.

...

Well, it's true.

...and while we're mentioning it, Namco did the last Star Fox.

And Rare did the one before that. Of course, as Nintendo owned Rare, they could be considered a Nintendo dev team.

Speaking of Star Fox Assaut... whatever happened to the arcade version?

But that's really besides the point.  Like I said, I like a lot of Nintendo's software.  I love the 2D Marios,

Speaking of that, saw some screen shots of a new 2D gameplay Mario a while back. I WANTS IT!

Personally, I think the DS is still picking up steam. We're seeing the simple games because they're the first ones done.

That's partly true. But the DS has been out for a good six months now. And Feel the Magic and WarioWare are still the best games on it.

Yah. I really think it was launched too early.

...

Wait, where's Mr. Driller? DRILLA-SAN AM OWN!111

By contrast, the PSP hasn't been out quite as long, and while it's still lacking a killer ap, and it has way too many sports and racing games, those games show a bit more polish. 

Meh. That sums up my thoguhts about the PSP nicely.

I'll tell you when I see something interesting enough to justify the price tag.

Even if one of the big reasons was Capcom's perpetual bargin-bin title PN03. WHICH KICKS ASS, SO THERE!

Capcom is actually one my favorite, if not the favorite developer.

I like Capcom a good bit of the time too.

But PN3 is still a decidedly bargin-bin title. I've seen some stores that've been trying to unload it for over a year now with little success. Vanessa deserves better than that, even if she is decidedly lacking in anti-aliasing.

Anyway, like I said, I really do hope I'm wrong.  I really would like to see Nintendo release a truly kick-ass console this time around.  But as long as Iwata is at the helm, I'll be a little pessimistic.

GO NINTENDO GO! PROVE HIM WRONG!

I'm rooting FOR you. Really.

Edited June 4, 2005 by JB0

[Gaijin]

Funny thing about the casual gamer and the driver example. MS spent a large portion of their E3 time trying to get the casual and non gamer excited about 360's Live online "store" where people who don't care about games will be peddling their virtual wares for your your virtual game characters.

Edited June 4, 2005 by Gaijin

[Oihan]

http://gamesradar.msn.co.uk/news/default.a...bsectionid=1587

"People sort of picked on us for not prematurely jumping into online or internet gaming," he mused, going on to point out that now the company has more to offer besides online gaming. Harrison then confirmed that past-gen, Nintendo-created titles will indeed be downloadable for free.

Free downloadable games is such a bad idea and its going to spell doom for Nintendo.

I doubt that. It's only going to be the NES, SNES, and N64 games...that's the rumor anyway. So it's not like they're going to be giving away free GameCube and Revolution games. Hell...if you really can d/l N64 on that thing, I'll definitely be d/l-ing Conker's Bad Furday.

[Druna Skass]

I might get a Revolution later on down the line just to download GoldenEye...

[JB0]

http://gamesradar.msn.co.uk/news/default.a...bsectionid=1587

"People sort of picked on us for not prematurely jumping into online or internet gaming," he mused, going on to point out that now the company has more to offer besides online gaming. Harrison then confirmed that past-gen, Nintendo-created titles will indeed be downloadable for free.

Free downloadable games is such a bad idea and its going to spell doom for Nintendo.

I doubt that. It's only going to be the NES, SNES, and N64 games...that's the rumor anyway. So it's not like they're going to be giving away free GameCube and Revolution games. Hell...if you really can d/l N64 on that thing, I'll definitely be d/l-ing Conker's Bad Furday.

Most people dun have the bandwidth to download 'Cube and Revolution games.

...

Though having smaller games that were ONLY available online... that'd be neat.

Except as I recall, MS already does that with XBox Live Arcade...

[mikeszekely]

Miyamoto thinks games are too long.

This is significant, because this is another example of what I'm talking about. Don't ge me wrong, I enjoy "time wasters"... I just picked up Zoo Keeper for the DS, 'cuz that's a fun one when you've got like 10 minutes until you have to leave for work and nothing better to do.

But Miyamoto's attitude seems to be indicative of Nintendo's new trend in marketing... small, simple, possibly fun games that non-gamers can enjoy. Personally, I spring $50 for a game, it'd better last me at least a week. I (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) am looking for something longer and more engaging than Nintendo's recent stream of mini-game collections, even if those collections ARE fun.

[Gaijin]

Miyamoto thinks games are too long.

This is significant, because this is another example of what I'm talking about.  Don't ge me wrong, I enjoy "time wasters"... I just picked up Zoo Keeper for the DS, 'cuz that's a fun one when you've got like 10 minutes until you have to leave for work and nothing better to do.

But Miyamoto's attitude seems to be indicative of Nintendo's new trend in marketing... small, simple, possibly fun games that non-gamers can enjoy.  Personally, I spring $50 for a game, it'd better last me at least a week.  I (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) am  looking for something longer and more engaging than Nintendo's recent stream of mini-game collections, even if those collections ARE fun.

No, you're not the only one. While I actually play much less nowadays and enjoy the "quick fun" game too, I don't feel compelled to spend $50 for a really short game anymore.

Edited June 4, 2005 by Gaijin

[Fort Max]

He may have said that about his future aims but new zelda is still going to be something like 70 hrs long.

There will always be plenty of endurance games as well as time wasters.

[Wes]

Reading the article, I think that's just his opinion. The guy's probably very busy, so it must suck not to have much time to invest into playing games.

[Radd]

There's very little actually said by Miyamoto in that article, or the article it is referencing. I'm not too concerned, even if Nintendo starts making lots of little games they're likley to continue making longer lasting games like Mario, Zelda, and Metroid.

[JB0]

Reading the article, I think that's just his opinion.  The guy's probably very busy, so it must suck not to have much time to invest into playing games.

Keep his origins in mind too. He got in in the early days, when a video game was a single-screen test of skill, and the only measures of progress were how long your quarter lasted and how big your score got.

And the sentiment he expresses is one you see a lot in the retro-gaming community.

Not just that games are too long, but that a lotof them just aren't that interesting, or are too complex for their own good, or substitute flashy graphics and 2 dozen guns for quality gameplay.

Miyamoto thinks games are too long.

This is significant, because this is another example of what I'm talking about.  Don't ge me wrong, I enjoy "time wasters"... I just picked up Zoo Keeper for the DS, 'cuz that's a fun one when you've got like 10 minutes until you have to leave for work and nothing better to do.

But Miyamoto's attitude seems to be indicative of Nintendo's new trend in marketing... small, simple, possibly fun games that non-gamers can enjoy.  Personally, I spring $50 for a game, it'd better last me at least a week.  I (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) am  looking for something longer and more engaging than Nintendo's recent stream of mini-game collections, even if those collections ARE fun.

Overall, I get more play time out of the small quick games than I do the large expansive ones, paradoxically.

Sure, a huge RPG like Star Ocean 2(a personal favorite, as well as what I think is currently the holder of my longest single run, with a 120+-hour save) may take ages to beat, but I'm not likely to come back to it very often.

On the other hand, RType Final(my current preferred game) can be beaten in a half-hour, but there's something about the simplicity and challenge that lends itself well to extended play(damn stage 5 boss... I HATE YOU!).

...

That and I somehow got drawn into the whole PokeMon aspect with the ship unlocking business.

ANYWAYS...

I think the current tendancy to make ALL games long and involved is bad.

But by the same token, I think the occasional over-zealous retro-gamer's insistence that ALL games should be short violent affairs with no plot or objective is equally bad.

I think that's more what Miyamoto means. Not that all games need to be quick 1st-era arcade-type affairs(though the implication is that's most of what he plays), but there needs to SOME quick&dirty games in the market.

...

Speaking of which... let's get Miyamoto to tell us if there's gonna be any arcade games on the Revolution's download network! Let's see the ORIGINAL Donkey Kong and DK Jr for a change instead of the scaled-back NES versions!

</hopeless dream>

Edited June 5, 2005 by JB0

[Wes]

According to rumor, Famitsu states that Nintendo said all their 1st party games will be available for download. Third party games would have to be worked out with their developers. Seeing as I can't read Japanese, I need someone else to double-check. Here's the list of possible games:

Nintendo Forums

[bandit29]

Predicted shortages and $ 76 loss for the Xbox 360

Microsoft executive says demand for the new console will outstrip supply; analysts predict company will only charge $299 for $375 worth of hardware.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/06/06/news_6127039.html

I'm kinda burned out on the next gen talk. Still not impressed with Nintendo even though I love those old games. I've been reliving mid-90's 2-D fighting goodness with Vampire:Darkstalkers Collection for the import PS2. farting rules. Anyone here own the PS2/Saturn pad? I was thinking of buying it. I just wanted to know how it compares to the original(which I loved).

[Black Valkyrie]

Anyone here own the PS2/Saturn pad? I was thinking of buying it. I just wanted to know how it compares to the original(which I loved).

I have one, excellent the same as the original Saturn pad and only the select button is added. Anyone interested in the PS2-NEO GEO Stick.

[mikeszekely]

Predicted shortages and $ 76 loss for the Xbox 360

Microsoft executive says demand for the new console will outstrip supply; analysts predict company will only charge $299 for $375 worth of hardware.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/06/06/news_6127039.html

I'm kinda burned out on the next gen talk. Still not impressed with Nintendo even though I love those old games. I've been reliving mid-90's 2-D fighting goodness with Vampire:Darkstalkers Collection for the import PS2. farting rules. Anyone here own the PS2/Saturn pad? I was thinking of buying it. I just wanted to know how it compares to the original(which I loved).

I love how they come up with $76. If Gamespot always ignores the change, they're always going to be off by almost a buck. They really ought to round up a penny instead of down 99 cents, but I guess they're falling for one of the oldest retail tricks around.

That extra 99 cents per console might not seem like much, but it adds up when you're talking about around a million consoles by the end of the year, and will take almost a million off of Gamespot's estimation of Microsoft's losses.

Not that it matters... Microsoft brings in plenty of money from other divisions to cover for the losses they'll take on hardware. For now, I think Microsoft is just securing their place in the industry.

[bandit29]

Anyone here own the PS2/Saturn pad? I was thinking of buying it. I just wanted to know how it compares to the original(which I loved).

I have one, excellent the same as the original Saturn pad and only the select button is added. Anyone interested in the PS2-NEO GEO Stick.

Cool thanks. I'll probably buy the Vampire version

http://www.ncsxshop.com/cgi-bin/shop/CS1-0007.html

[myk]

I'll eventually buy them all, as each system will have exclusive games that the other one won't have.

Ultimately though, how is anyone supposed to respond in this thread with Agent One being such a distraction?

[Skull Leader]

I think it's important to have a good combination of games both that are very long and many shorter. What's dissapointing is when a game you expect to take much longer ends suddenly (GTA Vice City was like this for me, at least it has a kickass replay value).

For me, Tetris will always be the ultimate time-waster, but I want my epics as well This summer I'm setting aside some time to replay FFIV... I never tire of that game!

[mikeszekely]

Seems retro games on the Revolution won't be free after all...

Gamespot article.

[mikeszekely]

I think it's important to have a good combination of games both that are very long and many shorter. What's dissapointing is when a game you expect to take much longer ends suddenly (GTA Vice City was like this for me, at least it has a kickass replay value).

For me, Tetris will always be the ultimate time-waster, but I want my epics as well This summer I'm setting aside some time to replay FFIV... I never tire of that game!

I agree with you whole-heartedly. For the most part, I crave those kind of games that suck me in and keep me playing for hours straight. I remember playing KOTOR for the first time, and playing from dinner until 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning... good times.

Every now and then, though, you need a good time waster. Those are the kind of games that I like on my cell-phone. The ultimate time wasters, in my book, would be Tetris, Bejeweled/Zoo Keeper, and Dr. Mario.

[Black Valkyrie]

Seems retro games on the Revolution won't be free after all...

Gamespot article.

It was obvious nothing is for free but I guess some will say who needs it when you can have free emulation . At least Nintendo should have made a GBA that has an option to connect to the TV.

[Black Valkyrie]

Revolution controller not done

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/06/07/news_6127075.html

[mikeszekely]

Remember all the "polite conversation" we were having awhile back, where some people were saying that Microsoft was stupid for not going with an next-gen disc, and Sony was smart for using Blu-Ray?

Well, it seems like HD-DVD just got a boost. Mind you, the competition is far from over yet... which is exactly the reason why the Xbox team decided to stay out of it and stick with regular DVDs. And should HD-DVD become the eventual winner, the only thing Blu-Ray is going to be good for is PS3 discs.

[Gunbuster]

It seems logical that the HD DVD would win (just some modification on current equipment instead of ripping them out and install new and expensive equipment). This would sucks because that means making PS3 games will be more expensive (I’m just talking about the disc cost), so who pay for that expense? The publisher or the consumer?

[Black Valkyrie]

Remember all the "polite conversation" we were having awhile back, where some people were saying that Microsoft was stupid for not going with an next-gen disc, and Sony was smart for using Blu-Ray?

Well, it seems like HD-DVD just got a boost.  Mind you, the competition is far from over yet... which is exactly the reason why the Xbox team decided to stay out of it and stick with regular DVDs.  And should HD-DVD become the eventual winner, the only thing Blu-Ray is going to be good for is PS3 discs.

This was somehow expected cuz in general a consumer want to upgrade his/her current machines and not fully change to a new system and its format, IMO this could be a smart move by MS.

Its like in the 80`s Betamax vs. VHS .

Edited June 9, 2005 by Black Valkyrie

[JB0]

Remember all the "polite conversation" we were having awhile back, where some people were saying that Microsoft was stupid for not going with an next-gen disc, and Sony was smart for using Blu-Ray?

Well, it seems like HD-DVD just got a boost.  Mind you, the competition is far from over yet... which is exactly the reason why the Xbox team decided to stay out of it and stick with regular DVDs.  And should HD-DVD become the eventual winner, the only thing Blu-Ray is going to be good for is PS3 discs.

This was somehow expected cuz in general a consumer want to upgrade his/her current machines and not fully change to an new system and its format, IMO this could be a smart move by MS. Its like in the 80`s Betamax vs. VHS .

Except Beta/VHS didn't have any legacy to deal with. It was fought solely on merit.

...

How did VHS win?

[Gunbuster]

Remember all the "polite conversation" we were having awhile back, where some people were saying that Microsoft was stupid for not going with an next-gen disc, and Sony was smart for using Blu-Ray?

Well, it seems like HD-DVD just got a boost.  Mind you, the competition is far from over yet... which is exactly the reason why the Xbox team decided to stay out of it and stick with regular DVDs.  And should HD-DVD become the eventual winner, the only thing Blu-Ray is going to be good for is PS3 discs.

This was somehow expected cuz in general a consumer want to upgrade his/her current machines and not fully change to an new system and its format, IMO this could be a smart move by MS. Its like in the 80`s Betamax vs. VHS .

Except Beta/VHS didn't have any legacy to deal with. It was fought solely on merit.

...

How did VHS win?

I thought this was already answered in the PSP thread. VHS won because of p0rn

[Black Valkyrie]

I thought this was already answered in the PSP thread. VHS won because of p0rn 

No way, no one can be stupid to buy a new format just for porn.

Back to topic :

I`m just waiting for the Sony boys what they`ll say about it.

Edited June 9, 2005 by Black Valkyrie