Ghost in the Shell, Batou or the Major?

[Effect]

I never really could get into Ghost in the Shell, the first film anyway. Since watching Stand Alone Complex I've grown to like it but that's mainly because of characters like Batou and Togusa. I really can't stand the Major at all to be honest. I'm not sure if it's the character's personality that makes her come off as extremely bitchy or if it's just her english voice. I can't stand her. I really wish that Batou was the main character.

Does anyone have that feeling when it comes to Ghost in the Shell?

Which would you rather have the focus on and why?

Seeing as Batou is the main character of the second film I think I'll finally check that out. Less Major is always good I feel. I don't think it's because he's male either to be honest. After all I have nothing against female characters. Hell I love watching Armitage and she kicks as much butt as the Major does but while I love her character I can't stand the Major though. So gender really isn't the problem for me. Batou comes off as a badass but at the same time he isn't cold. He's likeable in his own way I feel.

Edited April 24, 2005 by Effect

[NERV]

well see the difference is that while tha major kicks ass, batou both kicks ass and is badass, i got notihng against her but i like batou better

Edited April 24, 2005 by NERV

[JB0]

I liked the major in the original manga.

The movie... I find it impossible to like anyone in.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I'm more a fan of those fuchikoma things in the comic. I wish they were the main character. I know her body is fake but is the major a lesbian? There was some lesbian love panels that were cut out of the US Gits manga. It was the part where she and her friends are on this boat.. Anyway it's not in the original release I had.

Edited April 24, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[JB0]

I'm more a fan of those fuchikoma things in the comic. I wish they were the main character.

YES! MUST HAVE FUCHIKOMA COMICS!

[Commander McBride]

I feel the same way. Batou and Togusa really make GITS for me. I can't get into the first movie, either.

I think it's just that those two characters are really believable. The Major is an exagerrated, overpowered, superwoman, with little in the way of personality on top of it. Batou, and especially Togusa, seem like they could be real people. They actually act and talk as if they have emotions, or, at the very least, a sense of humor.

[Myriad]

Ah! There is all this technology and then there is the mullet headed Togusa....

The poor guy is trapped in 1987.

[wolfx]

Ah! There is all this technology and then there is the mullet headed Togusa....

The poor guy is trapped in 1987.

That strangely describes him very well.

[yellowlightman]

Ah! There is all this technology and then there is the mullet headed Togusa....

The poor guy is trapped in 1987.

As endearing as Togusa is, just about ever episode in which he gets into trouble, it's his own damn fault. The episode where he goes on trial in 2nd Gig is a really good example, hard to feel for a guy when he just makes stupid decisions.

[Guest Bromgrev]

Much as I like Batou, I wouldn't really want to see him naked ...

[Commander McBride]

I still like Togusa a lot, though, he's probably my favorite character. He's the easiest character to identify with, the most like a real person, I suppose.

[Druna Skass]

Only seen the second movie so I can't say too much about the Major aside from she's hot. But Batou is definatly someone I wouldn't mind to have assigned to watch my back.

What's the name of his dog?

[NERV]

btw are the tachikomas ever coming back on SAC?

[F-ZeroOne]

I'm more a fan of those fuchikoma things in the comic. I wish they were the main character. I know her body is fake but is the major a lesbian? There was some lesbian love panels that were cut out of the US Gits manga. It was the part where she and her friends are on this boat.. Anyway it's not in the original release I had.

I bought the Intron Depot art book and was flicking through it while waiting for a train. A friend of mine was lookijng over my shoulder. I didn't know at the time that Intron Depot has the original, uncensored scene in it.

I found out when I heard the sound of eyeballs getting VERY big, VERY quickly...

I might be wrong on this - its not entirely clear from the manga - but that scene may have been taking place virtually, in which case the Major may have been, er, "trying" things out... However, theres further evidence from the SAC TV series (although that is a different timeline) that she is.

On the other hand, considering that, at least going by the movies, its possible to transplant a cyborg brain to another body, sexuality may just not be a hang-up in the GiTs universe anymore...!

[Commander McBride]

I'm more a fan of those fuchikoma things in the comic. I wish they were the main character. I know her body is fake but is the major a lesbian? There was some lesbian love panels that were cut out of the US Gits manga. It was the part where she and her friends are on this boat.. Anyway it's not in the original release I had.

I bought the Intron Depot art book and was flicking through it while waiting for a train. A friend of mine was lookijng over my shoulder. I didn't know at the time that Intron Depot has the original, uncensored scene in it.

I found out when I heard the sound of eyeballs getting VERY big, VERY quickly...

I might be wrong on this - its not entirely clear from the manga - but that scene may have been taking place virtually, in which case the Major may have been, er, "trying" things out... However, theres further evidence from the SAC TV series (although that is a different timeline) that she is.

On the other hand, considering that, at least going by the movies, its possible to transplant a cyborg brain to another body, sexuality may just not be a hang-up in the GiTs universe anymore...!

That scene is in the newer release of the US manga. It is virtual. Explanation I've seen is that the technology they're using only works for same-sex, not hetero.

[Graham]

btw are the tachikomas ever coming back on SAC?

I'm guessing you have not seen SAC 2nd Gig yet then?

Graham

[NERV]

btw are the tachikomas ever coming back on SAC?

I'm guessing you have not seen SAC 2nd Gig yet then?

Graham

just what theyve shown on cartoon netwrok which is still first season

[bsu legato]

I really can't stand the Major at all to be honest. I'm not sure if it's the character's personality that makes her come off as extremely bitchy or if it's just her english voice.

Well there's your first problem. I'm not usually part of the "Sub not Dub" movement, but in this case I have to definitively state that the japanese track is the superior version, particularly in regards to Maj Kusanagi. The remainder of the english cast does a respectable job, but where the Major is concerned the dub really falls flat. If you have access to the DVDs, give the subtitled version a shot. If you're watching GITS on Adult Swim, well I guess you're s-o-l.

Dub issues aside, there is a lot more going on with the Major than is readily apparent on the surface. Its just very subtle, and given the sheer density of information that any given episode of SAC has, its easy to miss it. Look at the episiode where Section 9 goes after the organ theives, for example. Kusanagi's scenes in the hospital say a lot about her, without beating the viewer over the head with it in an overt "Robotech Narrator" kind of way.

[Radd]

I really thought Motoko showed the most emotion and personality in the original manga. Of course Oshii's movie removed every ounce of personality from all of the characters, wich is supposedly one of the reasons Shirow hates the movie so much.

GitS:SAC gives the characters a lot more flavour than the movies have done, but still isn't the same as the manga. One thing I do love about SAC is that it gives a lot more developement to all of the other section 9 characters besides Motoko and Batou.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I personally just can't get into Ghost in the Shell... not the movies, not the SAC. I used to love Masamune Shirow but for some reason GITS just doesn't do it for me. I've been watching all of the SAC episodes as they come over on Adult Swim but I just don't find myself drawn into them like other shows. I think it's the same problem I had with the last Appleseed book (book 4)... the plot is just so needlessly convoluded and they plop down plotpoints in a sort of "what? you mean you don't know about this?" sort of way all the time. Such as last night's episode "Annihilation", lots of stuff just sort of "happens" with no real explanation or cause. I guess I can see sort of what is going on but it's almost like the episodic nature of the show is working against it in that massive leaps forward in the plot seem to happen off camera and the viewer has to catch up in each episode. It could be the dubbing script, it could be me... I don't know. What I do know is that I just can't get "into" this anime like I thought I would.

Edited April 24, 2005 by JsARCLIGHT

[Mr March]

I know I'll most likely be the voice of dissent on this board, but the first Ghost in The Shell film is what really got me into the franchise. I found the manga characters far too flamboyant and just plain silly, especially the Major. I appreciated that in the film they had Motoko grapple with some of the serious issues of conscience and soul in a mechanized world with a much more believable tone. She became the conduit through which the viewer began to understand the encroachment of computers into the mind, and the implications of this upon the very nature of human perception of reality.

Due to the storytelling requirements of such a tale, Kusanagi will be a more morose and introspective character in order to keep her beleivable. Give her an outrageous sense of humor or audaciously eccentric personality, she appears too dichotomous for such sullen material. I think her character is given just the right amount of humanity and we are fed only bits and pieces of her most private thoughts as the Ghost in the Shell: SAC series moves along.

I must say I agree completely with bsu legato that you should watch the subtitled version. Unfortunately, this goes for most anime. The english cast often ruins the effect or tone that the original japanese cast was trying to portray, especially in the case of anime's many unconventional character archetypes (though, there are exceptions like Bebop). In the case of Ghost in the Shell: SAC, the producers of the english dub totally missed the whole point behind Motoko's personality. As such, she comes across in an almost ridiculously bland manner, like a flat charater. She is really her own character in the japanese dialogue and the acting reveals her character in many subtle ways. She's actually the deepest, most dimensional character in the series, taken as a whole.

Edited April 24, 2005 by Mr March

[JB0]

On the other hand, considering that, at least going by the movies, its possible to transplant a cyborg brain to another body, sexuality may just not be a hang-up in the GiTs universe anymore...!

That was in the manga too.

Only Motoko wound up a man() instead of a little girl.

[F-ZeroOne]

On the other hand, considering that, at least going by the movies, its possible to transplant a cyborg brain to another body, sexuality may just not be a hang-up in the GiTs universe anymore...!

That was in the manga too.

Only Motoko wound up a man() instead of a little girl.

I think it was the manga I was thinking of, now that you mention it - too many GiTs versions, thats the trouble!

[JB0]

On the other hand, considering that, at least going by the movies, its possible to transplant a cyborg brain to another body, sexuality may just not be a hang-up in the GiTs universe anymore...!

That was in the manga too.

Only Motoko wound up a man() instead of a little girl.

I think it was the manga I was thinking of, now that you mention it - too many GiTs versions, thats the trouble!

I've only seen the manga and first movie.

And only one was worth the time.

[Myriad]

I still like Togusa a lot, though, he's probably my favorite character. He's the easiest character to identify with, the most like a real person, I suppose.

Is he the boy that pilots the robot?

[promethuem5]

I got into GTIS seeing the first movie, and then I got the Manga (usually my favorite part of an anime series) Both were kinda eh in my mind, but the action in the movie was really cool. The end of both is confusing, but I found that the ending was much easier to stomach in animation rather that print (I'm still trying to figure out what the hairball things are when she's talking to the AI entity in the Manga ) And now I feel incomplete because the US Manga is edited... might have to track down a Japanese release to see what is missing besides the lesbo porn

[Dat Pinche Haro!]

to be honest, it's been hard for me to get into GitS...I didn't really like the movies and the show was by far better than the movies imo...i only started to watch it cuz it was more of a cop story than tryna explore your own humanity or whatever but i will admit that SAC is hard at first to get into but when you get into the main or true focus of the series then it's great

btw...batou kicks more ass

Edited April 24, 2005 by Dat Pinche Haro!

[Jemstone]

I liked the major in the original manga.

The movie... I find it impossible to like anyone in.

Ditto. Kusanagi in the manga was awesome. I hate everyone in the movies. SAC is alright but i'm not crazy about the characters in both seasons either.

As for the VA stuff... I don't get. I never watched the dubs.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

From what I've heard from some sources explaining this on the internet, she has a side business selling VR porn.

If you want to see the missing pics censored from the first us release you can get it here.

*looks at pics* Warning: not for viewing with the family

No wonder it was cut..they need to appeal to the broadest market and not put the comic in the adult only range. There's something about that, that reminds me of battlestar galactica and how that scientist keeps virtually doing that chic in the red dress and everyone thinks he's creepy.

Edited April 24, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[JB0]

The current graphic novel release is uncensored. And comes in plastic wrap to protect the kiddies.

[zeo-mare]

i do not know i like both characters. by the way thanks for the link i did not realize there was that much nudity in the manga, because i have never seen it.

chris

[JB0]

i do not know i like both characters. by the way thanks for the link i did not realize there was that much nudity in the manga, because i have never seen it.

chris

It's only in the one scene.

...

There's maybe 2 more pages of nudity in the entire thing, and they're non-explicit.

[EXO]

The first manga is a whole lot better than the animated version.. but SAC kicks ass as far as any animated series right now. Batou and Togusa are more interesting because they get to banter off each other. The Major was most interesting in the chat room episode. Probably the best representation of her in any animated form.

[yellowlightman]

The first manga is a whole lot better than the animated version.. but SAC kicks ass as far as any animated series right now. Batou and Togusa are more interesting because they get to banter off each other. The Major was most interesting in the chat room episode. Probably the best representation of her in any animated form.

My problem with the Major in SAC is that she's protrayed as too perfect; she's too good at everything and has the personality of a block of ice. The other guys in Section 9 have a lot more character, although most don't start getting fleshed out until 2nd Gig I've found.

[thedarkmarine]

The first manga is a whole lot better than the animated version.. but SAC kicks ass as far as any animated series right now.  Batou and Togusa are more interesting because they get to banter off each other.  The Major was most interesting in the chat room episode.  Probably the best representation of her in any animated form.

My problem with the Major in SAC is that she's protrayed as too perfect; she's too good at everything and has the personality of a block of ice. The other guys in Section 9 have a lot more character, although most don't start getting fleshed out until 2nd Gig I've found.

Well, as of now, in 2nd GIG, Major has her ice busted open like a barrel of monkeys. We see someone who we thought was uncrackable, cracked, and that's the real kicker lately.