VF-19 Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Goeth in Schindler's List. Just because the guy existed. Quote
Ghost Train Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Most evil villain.... from the upcoming Macross Frontier movie! Quote
VFTF1 Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 I have a problem with picking the "best movie badguy" because I usually find myself sympathizing with the bad guys in movies. 1. Darth Vader - well, it's kind of obvious, now isn't it? The Jedi Council broke the Jedi code by asking Anakin to spy on the Emperor. If they knew that he was not ready to be a Master and still had much maturing to do - then why didn't they completely shove him aside from that situation? Because they estimated that they needed him. Not saying Anakin himself didn't do stuff that got him in trouble - his marriage to Padme mainly - but once he saw that the Jedi Council was capable of being duplicious and hypocritical - I'm sure he thought...well so why can't I? And hey - how's this different from the Sith? That's what makes it a tragic story. Naturally, if Anakin was truly strong, he would see the flaws of the Jedi and try to be BETTER than they were instead of using it as an excuse to be "just as bad." Still - not a bad guy by any stretch of the imagination. So he kills people? Big deal. It's war. The Rebels killed people too, and every death in a war is a tragic waste. 2. The Emperor - this one is not so obvious, but I actually have more sympathy for the Emperor than for Darth Vader even. First off, it goes without saying that prior to his ascent to the level of Chancellor, the Jedi ruled the galaxy. Now, true enough, there was a Senate, with Democratically ellected members and then a democratically ellected (albeit by the Senate) Chancellor. But then there was the Jedi Council. And who elected them? The Force? Who had authority over them? Who had anything to say about what their role in the galaxy was? The Force? Well - who gave the Jedi the right to be the monopolists in terms of interpreting the Force? See - Palpatine just noticed that "coincidentially" the Jedi had power and didn't ask anybody for permission to have this power. He wanted the same thing - but he refused to cow tow to the Jedi in order to get it. And let's be clear here - the Jedi were not averse to using physical force to enforce their rule. In fact, as "protectors of the galaxy" - that's what Jedi knights did. They went around killing people who wouldn't succumb to their rule. The reasons might have been noble and just, and the people they killed might have been "evil" - but did you ever see a Jedi reading somebody their Myranda rights? Did the Jedi use their awesome powers to pacify suspects and then give them a fair trial? No. It was zoink! Are you're dead by light saber. Palpatine is right when he tells Anakin that the Jedi are just afraid of losing their power. What makes Luke Skywalker's nobility possible is that the Jedi are no longer part of the government. Then the Jedi code actually achieves meaning because it becomes possible to follow it as an individual and to decide what is right and wrong in accordance to higher morality. Thus you have Luke not only refusing to kill his father but THROWING AWAY HIS LIGHT SABER. It Mace Windu had shown that kind of true courage when facing down the Emperor - Anakin would not have turned to the Dark Side. Anakin instead heard Mace say "he's too dangerous to be kept alive" - the EXACT SAME justification Palpatine peddled when ordering Count Dokoo's killing. So... no duh that Anakin figured that the Jedi were indeed no different from the Sith - except insofar as the Sith were nice to him and wanted to help his girlfriend, while the Jedi were keeping him down. Now - granted - Yoda did begin to understand just how bad the existence of the Jedi Council was when he realized what a "dark path this line of thinking" is leading down - but it was too late. The Jedi were able to save the galaxy when they were out of power and the corruption of politics couldn't touch them. More on other villains in a second.... Pete Quote
sharky Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Dr. Hannibal Lecter form the The Silence of the Lambs! I dunno, I was kind of rooting for him in the movie. Quote
Ghost Train Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 I see Anakin/Darth Vader as the ultimate hero, as his is the story of redemption. Quote
VFTF1 Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 See This is the problem with fiction. Nobody really ever wants to read about, watch or generally know anything about truly bad characters. Characters like Dostoyevski's Shmerdikov. Who's that you say? Well - he's from Brothers Karamazov, but nobody really remembers him. Why? Because he was a lazy drunk farmer who happened to kill somebody - if I remember it right (which I might not). But the guy had no redeeming qualities beyond having happened to be born human. These kind of characters are patently uninteresting. All of the bad guys we get in movies, comics and cartoons, are actually interesting and to some degree we can sympathize with their plight. Even Hitler if you think of Versailles, his experience in World War I, and him waking up half-blind in a hospital to hear the news that Gemany had capitulated. And before anybody starts going pale with shock: Go read Charles DeGaulle's book (yeah, THAT Charles DeGaulle - the French President, former general, and former POW during WWI) about how in his view the Germans basically commited suicide in WWI. The book is called, aptly, "A House Divided" - the english version is translated by one Dr. Robert Eden. DeGaulle, even though he was a French soldier, was able to take a very sober look at Germany during WWI, particularly at the German leadership, and his book foreshadows much of the weakness that eventually allows Germany as a state to decompose and come under the rule of madmen. But...that's a big time digression... My point is that the truly evil characters are usually the ones that are dumb, brute, thoughtless, tactless, ugly, boring....in short- totally unsuitable for a movie - because we wouldn't care to even watch their story. In movies, the vast majority of villains are not so much "evil" as they are just tragic heroes. Pete Quote
sharky Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Most evil villain.... from the upcoming Macross Frontier movie! Well she does have red eyes of rage! Muwahahahaha! Quote
Excillon Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Anime/Animation: Char Aznable from Char's Counterattack TV: Cigarette smoking man from X-Files Movie: I was always partial to the following: Patrick Bateman, The Predator, Joker in Dark Knight, and Robert Patrick as T1000 (God he was evil looking). But the all time villian award must go to (envelope please)...Jet Li in Lethal weapon 4. Calm, collected, and made such an impact in so little screen time. Quote
Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0 Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Chong Li, Marlon Brando's character from Apocalypse now, Ivan Drago, and Darth Vader Quote
Ghost Train Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Chong Li, Marlon Brando's character from Apocalypse now, Ivan Drago, and Darth Vader I have a hard time seeing Kurtz from Apocalypse Now or the same character from Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness (from which the movie was so beautifully plagiarized) as being any sort of villain. In the original HOD, the search for Kurtz up the Congo was meant to illustrate the total incomprehension of European colonialists towards Africa - and hence that was the real villain of the tale. In the film, just replace Congo with Vietnam. ... and who is Chong Li? Quote
taksraven Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Rutger Haur was pretty evil in The Hitcher. Taksraven Quote
electric indigo Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Bill the Butcher (Daniel Day-Lewis) from "Gangs of New York" The movie as a whole was not really convincing, but Daniel Day-Lewis totally was. Quote
Black Valkyrie Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 So many but this comes to mind : Clarence Boddicker Quote
CoryHolmes Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Robert Patrick as T1000 (God he was evil looking). He succeeded in being so evil-looking by having utterly NO expression whatsoever. That takes some serious acting chops to bring that sort of presence through the movie screen. Even in the first film Arnie occasionally had facial twists and expressions, but Robert Patrick had none of that. Serious props to that guy. ... and who is Chong Li? ... you fail 80s action flicks FOREVER! He was the baddie from the first Bloodsport film. Quote
sharky Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 ... you fail 80s action flicks FOREVER! He was the baddie from the first Bloodsport film. "You break my record. Now I break you like I break your friend" Quote
Ghost Train Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 ... you fail 80s action flicks FOREVER! He was the baddie from the first Bloodsport film. Ohh... that guy! Can't believe I missed that. The actor, Bolo Yeung, has played quite a few bad guys over the years including the main henchman from Enter the Dragon. Quote
CoryHolmes Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Ohh... that guy! Can't believe I missed that. The actor, Bolo Yeung, has played quite a few bad guys over the years including the main henchman from Enter the Dragon. *patpatpat* We can't believe it, either You know what else we can't believe? That he was 50 when he made that movie. I should be in that good shape next year! Quote
areaseven Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 Idi Amin (The Last King of Scotland) - Forrest Whitaker's portrayal of the Ugandan tyrant succeeded as a real-life dictator on film where Hitler eventually failed. Quote
Agent ONE Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 3. Commodus (Gladiator) 2. Clarence Boddicker (Robocop) 1. TIE = Satan (End of Days) AND Nurse Ratched (One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest) 4 years have past and I am still sticking with my answer. Quote
VFTF1 Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 (edited) Nurse Ratched (One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest) As usual Agent 1 is right. I forgot about her. Excellent pick. Although, in all honesty, she just needed a guy to get her drunk, take her out dancing and then have a wild night with her. But I guess what makes her evil is that she didn't want to do any of those things and prefered torturing mental patients... Lesson? Girls who don't drink, dance and put out end up evil. Pete Edited September 11, 2009 by VFTF1 Quote
Max Jenius Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 (edited) Clarence from Robocop. Totally badass. Vilos Cohaagen from Total Recall. Willing to resort to mass suffocation & creating mutants to get stuff done. I'd mention Dick Jones from Robocop, but I already think Clarence coulda pwnt him eventually & Ronnie Cox already has a spot because of Cohaagen. Interesting that I'd included them on the list though... I forgot until after I hit post. Edited September 12, 2009 by Max Jenius Quote
EXO Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 Joan Crawford in Mommy Dearest... "NO WIRE HANGERS!!!" Noah Cross in Chinatown After the police shoots down his daughter for trying to get away with her sister/daughter Noah Cross takes the little girl and someone tells Jake Gittes... "Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown!" Quote
macrossnake Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 Don't know if anyone mention this one. This is a good(bad) one! Stansfield from Léon (The Professional) You never want to piss this guy off. Quote
areaseven Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 I'd mention Dick Jones from Robocop, but I already think Clarence coulda pwnt him eventually That would be a tough call, as Jones was the brains behind everything. Besides, how would Clarence fare against ED-209, even if he's armed with a Cobra rifle? Quote
areaseven Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 Jean-Baptiste Grenouille (Perfume: The Story of a Murderer) - Who in the right mind would go and murder a dozen virgins just to cover them in animal fat and distill their essences just to make perfume? Quote
Max Jenius Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) That would be a tough call, as Jones was the brains behind everything. Besides, how would Clarence fare against ED-209, even if he's armed with a Cobra rifle? State of the art bang-bang > ED209. Plus in a straight up brawl, as close as Clarence was able to get to Jones... he could pull it off. Then again, I could see Jones being a step ahead of him as well. They're both so great... I think Cohaagen beats them both. Edited September 16, 2009 by Max Jenius Quote
CoryHolmes Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 Then again, I could see Jones being a step ahead of him as well. Indeed. Clarence had street smarts and a lifetime of crime to keep him safe, but he had no vision. Jones could see the potential for personal profit in building Delta City. "That's 2 million workers living in trailers. That means drugs. Gambling. Prostitution. Virgin territory for the man who knows how to open up new markets." And I doubt it would ever come to a brawl. Jones would get owned in a physical fight, but he could throw so much in Boddicker's way that he'd never get a shot at The Number Two guy. Quote
taksraven Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 Oliver Reed as Bill Sikes in the 1968 version of Oliver. The scene where he is brief but extremely brutal (the way that she can still be heard crying out as he clubs her to death) and seems really out of place in what had previously been a light-hearted musical. Its a nasty scene, but very effective. Best SF Badguy I would give to Maximillian in The Black Hole. A totally ruthless character. Taksraven Quote
ruskiiVFaussie Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) Betty from Kung-Pow! i would do some quotes but there are just too many funny ones first time i seen this thread, and i totally agree with ban guy. ;p .... My ass! Master Betty ownz. also Action Fighter is pretty bad ass from Togan Ninja. Edited September 16, 2009 by ruskiiVFaussie Quote
electric indigo Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 Honorable mention as the best movie badguy you really want to like I hate this Johnny. I really do. I hate violence. That is why I had Rosie do this, I could never do that man, I could never hold a knife to Tyler's throat, she was my woman. But, Rosie, he's like a mechanism. He's got this gift of blankness. Once you set him an emotion, he will not stop. So, when three o'clock comes, he will gut her like a pig, and try not to get any on his shoes and there is nothing I can do. Quote
Agent ONE Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 You guys are confusing COOL bad guys, with BAD bad guys... The guy from Point Break was hardly bad at all. He just wanted to surf and not have a job. Quote
Max Jenius Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 Indeed. Clarence had street smarts and a lifetime of crime to keep him safe, but he had no vision. Jones could see the potential for personal profit in building Delta City. "That's 2 million workers living in trailers. That means drugs. Gambling. Prostitution. Virgin territory for the man who knows how to open up new markets." And I doubt it would ever come to a brawl. Jones would get owned in a physical fight, but he could throw so much in Boddicker's way that he'd never get a shot at The Number Two guy. Right, but Cohaagen & Jones are basically the same character, so it works out. Quote
Vepariga Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 i dont think anyone can argue that Darth Vader or the Emperor are some of cinemas greatest bad guys. honourable mention: the guy with the dogs in "Fears of the Dark' Quote
taksraven Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 The guy from Point Break was hardly bad at all. He just wanted to surf and not have a job. I dunno, in my books that makes him worst than Hitler. (joke) Taksraven Quote
areaseven Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 I dunno, in my books that makes him worst than Hitler. (joke) Taksraven Yeah, last I heard, Hitler was ranting about . Quote
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