Transformers the Movie

[big F]

Plus now that it's Takara/Tomy, not just Takara, makes me wonder if they had some say in it. (Tomy is the original maker of Zoids) If nothing else, it prevented a copyright lawsuit, since some elements are not simply "inspired by" but flat out copied.

Yup thats my thinking. What was once three is now fairly much one. Hasbro - Takara - Tomy.

Heck im sure that Tomy owns Tyco as well.

As for my remark of old skool. I remember Zoids from when they came out in the 80`s. They kinda dissapeared where I live and I only started seeing them when I started going to Japan a few years ago.

I was plesently supprised to see all the "old" ones and "new" ones happily co existing on the shelves at the Yodabashi toy shop.

Edited July 17, 2007 by big F

[Fit For Natalie]

He'd just stack their kibble on their hips or make them shapeless blobs like that Mitsubishi thing he designed we saw last month

Nope we're in Macross World. A YF-19, YF-21, VF-0S, VF-17S, VF-11B, Koenig, etc aren't shapeless blobs. Something similar to a YF-21 Battroid would have looked better for Starscream as a movie design and toy.

I take it you did not see that weird silver mech he designed for one of the japanese car companies a month or so ago for their ad campaign (where the the SUV turned into a robot thing to walk over traffic)... and you somehow misread what I said and countered with unrelated designs?

The stuff on their hips is in reference to his redesign on Masterpiece Starscream. Shapeless blobs is that weird mech.

[Guest sh002]

I take it you did not see that weird silver mech he designed for one of the japanese car companies a month or so ago for their ad campaign (where the the SUV turned into a robot thing to walk over traffic)... and you somehow misread what I said and countered with unrelated designs?

The stuff on their hips is in reference to his redesign on Masterpiece Starscream. Shapeless blobs is that weird mech.

But Kawamori's range of robot designs including Transformers designs is not from MP Starscream to that Japanese car robot, which is also a design that has nothing to do with Transformers. Your post reads as if Kawamori doesn't know anything about designing robots when in fact he has had a lot of experience designing mechs and even Transformers. Updated Transformers designs from him don't look that bad. In fact, MP Starscream, with some "made for movie" modifications would look great as Starscream for example. His take on other Transformers with "movie modifications" would probably also look great.

Edited July 18, 2007 by sh002

[Kurisama]

Didn't Kawamori-sama design most of the G1 toys?

[Final Vegeta]

Seen it yesterday.

The cons:

Like all summer blockbusters, low body count. It doesn't mean that a main character has to die, but Prime can't walk in a garden without stomping things and yet when he falls he somehow misses people on the ground. Overall that can be kinda forgiven, though (everyone is subjected to these limitations. For istance in Lara Croft Angelina Jolie had to portray a tough attitude, and yet when there was a fight her weapons were inaccessible and she had to shoot screwdrivers). Sometimes this turns down a bit the awe: when Brawl/Devastator arrives he should have punched bigger holes with his cannon.

As a story, there are three separated human points of view: the protagonist Sam, Cpt Lennox and Maggie. Their relationships with each other is that at a certain point Lennox helps Sam and then he and Maggie seems to fall in love; as such they are actually unrelated. It would have been a lot better if Lennox and Sam were brothers (after all it was an ancestor of Sam to discover Megatron, so it would make sense if destiny kept putting the Witwickies and Transformers together), so when Lennox helped Sam the scene would have had more basic emotions. This would have even echoed Prime and Megatron relationship, and deep themes like envy and proudness between brothers could have been placed. Transformers were never intended to substitute human characters as protagonists because people would connect to humans more, so you need to have human characters relate to Transformers a lot, not just being on the same side.

The issue of how could puny humans damage huge robots of hell was not resolved in a way that felt good. On one side, it is obvious tiniest robots like Frenzy shouldn't be much a match even for normal weapons (by the way, why not some kind of stungun?), on the other hand they shouldn't be totally invulnerable. I feel that Sector Seven should have at least retro-engineered from Megatron some powerful weapons with which fight an eventual alien invasion. The theme of a secret society having futuristic technology kept hidden from public knowledge is common after all (they are Men in Black, and this is what MIB do). As it stands, Sector Seven fails to be impressive because represented primarily by a zany dork.

Frenzy being reconstructed by the Allspark contradicts the law of mass conservation, and also there is no point in bringing him back since he has a stupid death anyway. At this point, it would have been better seen him creeping in and fight like a facehugger, and be crushed like an insect. He is kinda a boastful character, so he deserved this kind of ridicule death.

Modifications I would have liked:

I would have liked as a scene that Barricade arrived when Sam phoned the polive for the theft of his car, kinda like Terminator (I don't remember exactly if there was a scene like that in T2, but the T1000 listened to police radio).

There should have being some "tuning" made on why Prime is so totally pro-humans. He is made even sacrifice a friend, after all. When he explains the Transformers were once like humans, it should have been edited together with the scene of the animated phone, which would have shown how much his peaceful efforts were due to a long way in evolution.

The pros:

The Transformers had personality. Even the Decepticons who don't speak a lot at least look menacing. The action was good (my favourite scene is when Ironhide fires on the ground to get some lift).

The general appliance of the law of mass conservation and the ability to reframe the external appearance were good ideas. The only thing remained to do was to explain why they had english names

It was good how Transformers were introduced gradually. When suddenly many more Decepticons appear you definitively feel there is gonna be troubles.

Overall I liked it, and even my friends did. There is something which could have been improved, but I am not disappointed. I feel there is a strong possibility sequels can be even better.

FV

Edited July 19, 2007 by Final Vegeta

[azrael]

Conceptual Art:

http://www.benprocter.com/SITEv2/HTML/PROJPAGE_Trans_01.html

See how all the designs started.

[Knight26]

That is one really slow loading website

[azrael]

That is one really slow loading website

The site is being slashdotted.

[Ginrai]

This movie totally sucked. I am stunned at how bad this was. I did not believe anyone. I thought they were just being whiney fanboys. This movie is terrible and it's not because of how it did or did not follow previous Transformers products. It is terrible because it is two hours of indicipherable CG blobs flying at my face while the camera shakes like a meth addict with Lou Gerhig's disease. I feel like the flipper on a pinball machine. It gave me a splitting headache.

[areaseven]

SPOILER ALERT! Do not read unless you've seen the film.

Over the weekend, I met up with an old friend and we talked about the movie. He brought up the final moments of Prime vs. Megatron, where

some F-22 Raptors fired their missiles at Megatron. He claims that Starscream was one of the jets that hit Megatron. I thought the theory was silly at first, but I thought about it, based on a couple of factors:

1. We've all known since the original series that Starscream is a backstabbing coward who wants Megatron out of the way so he can become leader of the Decepticons. Starscream taking a shot at Megatron in the film now doesn't surprise me, given the tension between the two.

2. While Starscream was tangling with the squadron of Raptors, one of them shot him with a missile at point blank range, but barely suffered a scratch. Given that case, a volley of missiles would dent Megatron, but not really hurt him. However, he got really hurt during that attack.

And so, I ask this question: Did Starscream contribute to the death of Megatron?

[big F]

SPOILER ALERT! Do not read unless you've seen the film.

Thanks for still adhearing to spoiler alerts. God I hate the fact that the U.K film board though it would be great to wait until the summer school holidays start. Do they have that little faith in what else is comming on for the kids this summer ?

[dizman]

SPOILER ALERT! Do not read unless you've seen the film.

Hmm thats a really good point, I never thought about that but its possible.

[HoveringCheesecake]

I read about that theory either here or at TFW2005. It' believe it.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

SPOILER ALERT! Do not read unless you've seen the film.

Over the weekend, I met up with an old friend and we talked about the movie. He brought up the final moments of Prime vs. Megatron, where

some F-22 Raptors fired their missiles at Megatron. He claims that Starscream was one of the jets that hit Megatron. I thought the theory was silly at first, but I thought about it, based on a couple of factors:

1. We've all known since the original series that Starscream is a backstabbing coward who wants Megatron out of the way so he can become leader of the Decepticons. Starscream taking a shot at Megatron in the film now doesn't surprise me, given the tension between the two.

2. While Starscream was tangling with the squadron of Raptors, one of them shot him with a missile at point blank range, but barely suffered a scratch. Given that case, a volley of missiles would dent Megatron, but not really hurt him. However, he got really hurt during that attack.

And so, I ask this question: Did Starscream contribute to the death of Megatron?

Adding to that, when Megatron is atop a building with Prime,

Starscream is sly in the background doing

NOTHING to help Megatron

[azrael]

SPOILER ALERT! Do not read unless you've seen the film.

It certainly works, but...we saw only one instance of that chemistry and it doesn't amount to much. So unless they release a longer or different cut of the film that goes into it more, it's nothing more than speculation.

[David Hingtgen]

Re: the concept art. With good clear views, you can see that Scorponok is made (mostly) from one of Blackout's engines. I'm trying to figure out exactly what else, but he looks pretty clearly to be part of Blackout's helicopter mode, not an external fuel tank etc. (There's "no step" "rescue" and "fuel" markings on him) Doesn't that mean that Blackout can't transform back to copter mode without Scorponok? He should be missing a big chunk of himself whenever Scorponok's not attached.

[kensei]

They are kind of like a symbiote Transformer then.

[JB0]

Doesn't that mean that Blackout can't transform back to copter mode without Scorponok? He should be missing a big chunk of himself whenever Scorponok's not attached.

You're injecting logic into Transformers. That can't end well.

Semi-plausable excuse: He reformats himself after launching Scorponok to cover up the hole.

[Fit For Natalie]

But Kawamori's range of robot designs including Transformers designs is not from MP Starscream to that Japanese car robot, which is also a design that has nothing to do with Transformers. Your post reads as if Kawamori doesn't know anything about designing robots when in fact he has had a lot of experience designing mechs and even Transformers. Updated Transformers designs from him don't look that bad. In fact, MP Starscream, with some "made for movie" modifications would look great as Starscream for example. His take on other Transformers with "movie modifications" would probably also look great.

My original post was called 'a joke', going by his latest Transformer design (being Starscream if he was a Valkyrie and not a Transformer) and his latest Robot Car design, which is relevant because people, including people here, kept going on about how the movie robots didn't look like they could transform into their vehicles when somebody of Kawamori's caliber designs a shapeless blob that doesn't look like anything. Of course, to be fair to him he was designing by the car company and their ad agency's orders.

As for his most recent TF design before MP Starscream, it wasn't a great reinterpretation of Masterpiece Convoy, given how bad the truck mode was.

Didn't Kawamori-sama design most of the G1 toys?

He contributed to some Diaclone toys, including what became Optimus Prime (there was no one designer for that particular toy).

SPOILER ALERT! Do not read unless you've seen the film.

Over the weekend, I met up with an old friend and we talked about the movie. He brought up the final moments of Prime vs. Megatron, where

some F-22 Raptors fired their missiles at Megatron. He claims that Starscream was one of the jets that hit Megatron. I thought the theory was silly at first, but I thought about it, based on a couple of factors:

1. We've all known since the original series that Starscream is a backstabbing coward who wants Megatron out of the way so he can become leader of the Decepticons. Starscream taking a shot at Megatron in the film now doesn't surprise me, given the tension between the two.

2. While Starscream was tangling with the squadron of Raptors, one of them shot him with a missile at point blank range, but barely suffered a scratch. Given that case, a volley of missiles would dent Megatron, but not really hurt him. However, he got really hurt during that attack.

And so, I ask this question: Did Starscream contribute to the death of Megatron?

Its just a rumour. Even Roberto Orci said was an interesting theory. Of course they can always retcon it now or later to say it was Starscream... after the other pilots forgot he could turn into an F-22.

Re: the concept art. With good clear views, you can see that Scorponok is made (mostly) from one of Blackout's engines. I'm trying to figure out exactly what else, but he looks pretty clearly to be part of Blackout's helicopter mode, not an external fuel tank etc. (There's "no step" "rescue" and "fuel" markings on him) Doesn't that mean that Blackout can't transform back to copter mode without Scorponok? He should be missing a big chunk of himself whenever Scorponok's not attached.

Maybe he can fly with only one engine and has backup panels to cover Scorponok's absence?

Here's a screencap of Scorponok's ejection I made for the TF wiki:

Edited July 19, 2007 by Fit For Natalie

[Vermillion21]

Finally caught the movie last night ... it was ok overall. Ironic that my wife, who knows nothing about TFs (except that I collect them) enjoyed the movie more than I did. Plot was so-so, and amazing effects, but all the TF characters were pretty bland, except for Bumblebee & Optimus Prime. You could barely tell who was who ... and I had to keep telling my wife their names.

Ah well, here's hoping they use a combiner in the sequel ....

[007-vf1]

I think the problem with these type of remastered movies (raping other people childhood) are that they need to be appealing and have congruence for new and wider type of viewers who unlike us, might not have a clue about the movie's history and compromise. The technology to bring it to the big screen have changed and although it makes it possible for directors build and create a character likewise the original creation they also face challenges and have to brainstorm on how to bring it together bringing along a charging ego and personal liberties on the creation process unsuccessfully some directors do "mess" it up.

I think at least most of them do try hard to make it canon. We should be happy that at least the original idea hasn't died and been forgotten with the decades that have left those childhood dreams behind. Besides, we are grown ups by now; we should learn to let some of those modern changes and annoying tweaks get by and enjoy the movie fro what it is..an entertaining popcorn flick..

I personally liked the movie and also thought about the things that could have been and aren't; but was happy to see that someone made me believe that a truck can turn into a robot and back again flawlessly and so realistic that made me feel I was there...

[Guest sh002]

My original post was called 'a joke', going by his latest Transformer design (being Starscream if he was a Valkyrie and not a Transformer) and his latest Robot Car design, which is relevant because people, including people here, kept going on about how the movie robots didn't look like they could transform into their vehicles when somebody of Kawamori's caliber designs a shapeless blob that doesn't look like anything. Of course, to be fair to him he was designing by the car company and their ad agency's orders.

WTH that Robot Car design is relevant to Transformers? How can a random robot that transforms be related to Transformers if it has nothing to do with Transformers? Kawamori's Macross designs are relevant to Transformers too then? One "failed" Convoy toy design wouldn't make him a bad designer for any TF movie designs. Any blocky parts or kibble on the hips could be magically folded away. MP Starscream looks more like his original G1 Transformer toy than a Valkyrie. Just because he has wings on his hips doesn't make it a Valkyrie.

Edited July 19, 2007 by sh002

[Fit For Natalie]

WTH that Robot Car design is relevant to Transformers? How can a random robot that transforms be related to Transformers if it has nothing to do with Transformers? Kawamori's Macross designs are relevant to Transformers too then? One "failed" Convoy toy design wouldn't make him a bad designer for any TF movie designs. Any blocky parts or kibble on the hips could be magically folded away. MP Starscream looks more like his original G1 Transformer toy than a Valkyrie. Just because he has wings on his hips doesn't make it a Valkyrie.

You seem to be latching onto a post that I explained was a joke for no apparent reason. His Car Thing was relevant because people here proclaimed the movie TF designs didn't look like Transformers at all, while others suggested getting Kawamori in to design them for the next movie. It is a joke on the fact his latest Car Robot design doesn't look like it even turned into anything.

My point was that a revered japanese mecha designer who contributed to the Diaclone mecha toys that became the basis for the early Transformers doesn't automatically make him a good Transformers designer for today's franchise.

Edited July 20, 2007 by Fit For Natalie

[Guest sh002]

It's because you originally quoted me about TF movie designs and mentioned two robots that Kawamori designed. MP Starcream (which btw is NOT a Valkyrie and compared to Diaclone toys is a more recent and better looking Transformers design) and the Nissan Dualis Powered Suit (which was not endorsed by Hasbro/Takara/Tomy and not designed or created for any TF series, movie, toy, etc and not relevant to Transformers.) Then you put a little smiley face at the end of the post. If instead you put just kidding or followed up and put you made some errors, it would have been more clear.

Kawamori also designed for various Macross series.

Edited July 20, 2007 by sh002

[Metal_Massacre_79]

Kawamori also designed for various Macross series.

NO...

WAY...

[Guest sh002]

Yep Macross designs are ignored. Roy's VF-1S is Jetfire's brother. j/k

Edited July 20, 2007 by sh002

[Guest sh002]

I'm dropping that discussion.

Edited July 20, 2007 by sh002

[Ginrai]

For the record most of the Car Robot designs were by Shinji Aramaki, but the Battle Convoy was Kawamori.

[Guest sh002]

Did Jazz really have to say, "What's crackin little b1tches?" Yeah they learn from the web but that and the line from the mom are ridiculous.

Edited July 20, 2007 by sh002

[VF5SS]

This is some nice concept art.

[mcpaz]

This is some nice concept art.

Sometimes I wonder who makes these decissions... this starscream is way MUCH better than the final "ape-like" robot.

M. Bay and team, IMO, got wrong in this matter (also).

manu

[buddhafabio]

Sometimes I wonder who makes these decissions... this starscream is way MUCH better than the final "ape-like" robot.

M. Bay and team, IMO, got wrong in this matter (also).

manu

he looks better, but scrawny..... but starscream was a lil scrawny B#$% wasnt he?

[jenius]

I just saw the movie, here's my brief review from someone who watched Tranformers as a kid and that's it... haven't followed them since. I might just be echoing other people's opinions. I'll do it in bullet-style format since I'm feeling really lazy.

1) There is WAY too much intro and WAY too much "getting to know the humans" time. There were roughly 10 Transformers the audience was going to be acquainted with, a little more time to flesh (so to speak) those characters out could have gone a LONG way. This leads to my second point -

2) Did anyone care at all about any of the Transformers other than BumbleBee? Maybe we cared about Optimus out of some sentimental attachment but seriously, when Jazz gets ripped in half shouldn't that have been a kinda sad moment? Nobody in the audience cares because all we heard Jazz say was one sentence.

3) The camp... way too cheesy for an adult. I'm totally not holding that against the movie since I'm certain it's aimed at new children to sell toys to. For me, the scene with the Autobots hiding at the house went on way too long and the main Section 7 guy just seemed ridiculous. Above all though, a scene so bad it tainted the rest of the movie, when Soundwave (I'm assuming that's who he was) snuck off of Airforce 1. WHAT? He actually walks like a human, lifts a claw to cover his face, and scurries. Was that supposed to make me laugh? Also, everything having to do with the super hot chick's backstory was straight 80s date flick camp (again, kids might eat it up though).

4) The movie seems to have some pretty big logic issues. The Allspark only creates Decepticons? How did the autobots ever stand a chance? When Sam goes to put the Allspark in the Blackhawk, won't that Blackhawk just become a decepticon like the Escalade he bumped into en route? Also, how did Optimus know about the glasses? Sam didn't know yet, so Bumblebee wouldn't know yet, the Decepticons did know though, but how did Optimus know?

5) When you introduce a character as Optimus' "Weapons Expert" it is an absolute requirement later in the movie he lives up to the title. Sure, we got to see him fighting (his name escapes me at the moment) but he has been established as a bad *** so he should have had a scene where he just totally punked a Decepticon.... I'm talkin' blown to bits punked.

6) It was kinda cute that they listed statements from the original series/movie. I'm pretty sure i've heard Optimus' "Two of us will stand, one of us will fall" line before (that's probably a terrible misquote). The one sentence that didn't strike me as quite right was Megatron's "Starscream you have failed me yet again!" It was like 10 seconds after we see Starscream for the first time and all he's had time to do is mobilize the Decepticons. Sure, the Allspark isn't there but it hardly seems like Starscream's fault.

All-in-all, I would say this film is totally average. I'm not particularly happy I spent $10 to see it but I've seen worse in theaters. Obviously the visuals are stunning.

[Golden Arms]

Jenius, Logic and Summer blockbuster films are mutually exclusive. I learned this a long time ago. But I agree with nearly all of your points. Did you truely believe that the focus was gonna be on the transformers and not the humans reacting to the Robots? That is one of my main gripes with these types of films. Not enough focus/exposition on the Transformers. The character on Air force 1 was Frenzy.

Other loose ends that have already been commented on:

1) Barricade and Scorponoks lack of involvment in the final battle

2) What happended to the newly created Robots--Vending Machine, escaldade, etc.

3) Bumblee can get new legs, but you can't rebuild Jazz

4) Devastator being made out of tissue paper

5) Why didn't Starscream shoot down the other F-22? He clearly was superior to them in the air.

[Vermillion21]

1) Barricade and Scorponoks lack of involvment in the final battle

Didn't these 2 get killed earlier in the movie? I think that's what happened ...

Jenius - you also forgot the cheesy "more than meets the eye" TF cartoon quote that was said in like 3 or 4 different contexts ....