Help buying an HDTV

[Gaijin]

LCD projection is about the same depth of DLP's and LCoS...they are no where near as thick and deep and heavy as the old crt projectors...my 50" weighs only 70 something pounds and is like 15" thick only.

DLP's, some people do see rainbows so beware of that. SD channels (non HD) don't look that great on HDTV's...unless you go for a crt, and then screen size is limited.

Crutchfield has a pretty nice all you need to know thing about HDTV thing in their print catalogs and website.

http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/reviews/hdtv/

The FCC mandate states DTV and not HDTV...some (a lot) of those signals will be EDTV and some still in SD.

For gaming, my set is great...4 component inputs, 3 S-video, 1 HDMI, and 2 VGA inputs. SD and PC card inputs.

Panasonic PT50LC14....there are also DLP and Cablecard ones now as well.

Edited April 6, 2005 by Gaijin

[Limbo]

Whats the diff between the DVI inputs and HDMI??

Plug shape, mainly.

HDMI also has audio and video on the same connector, while DVI doesn't, as I understand it.

Short version: jus tmake sure the stuff you buy uses the connector you have. And swear at TV manufacturers for not settling this BEFORE the last minute.

DVI and HDMI transfer video data in an identical manner, in a digital format. The only difference is that HDMI also transfers audio through the same cable. Component cables transfer data in an analog format. Below is the heirachy in order of quality best to worst:

1. DVI or HDMI

2. Component

3. S-Video

4. Composite (thru RCA connections)

[JB0]

Whats the diff between the DVI inputs and HDMI??

Plug shape, mainly.

HDMI also has audio and video on the same connector, while DVI doesn't, as I understand it.

Short version: jus tmake sure the stuff you buy uses the connector you have. And swear at TV manufacturers for not settling this BEFORE the last minute.

DVI and HDMI transfer video data in an identical manner, in a digital format. The only difference is that HDMI also transfers audio through the same cable. Component cables transfer data in an analog format. Below is the heirachy in order of quality best to worst:

1. DVI or HDMI

2. Component

3. S-Video

4. Composite (thru RCA connections)

Followed by #5: The barbarism known as an antenna terminal.

[Gaijin]

HDMI/DVI also features HDCP (High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection), which is turning out to be a major pain for the cable companies and TV manufacturers since the "standard" seems to be one of chaos...there are major "handshake" problems with the sets and cable boxes/cablecards right now. Price of being the early adopter.

[Hurin]

I largely agree with JsARCLIGHT. Good advice there.

Though, you might enjoy having and HD tv set simply for console gaming. You won't need an HD tuner, but you will need the $20-30 HD pack for the XBox (or PS2 equivalent). You'll then be able to play most games at 480p or even 720p in widescreen. I think there might even be a game or two that supports full HD 1080i resolution (I'm out of the loop now cuz I sold my XBox).

One thing you might also consider, however, is the possibility of screen burn-in. LCD TVs don't have any burn-in problems. But CRT (standard TV tubes) and rear-projection TVs that are based on CRTs (becoming less common now with LCD-based Rear-projection). The worst screens for burn-in are plasma TVs. They burn pretty easily. I have a CRT-based Sony HDTV. . . I used to watch one show on a news channel, and then I'd geek out on my computer for about five hours every night (pre-girlfriend). . . even though the logo is "burn friendly" and rotates, I now have a permanent pink smudge where the white letters sit in the corner. Boo!

You'll want to consider burn-in issues if you will be console gaming a lot. Basic precautions can keep any TV from burning in. . . but I'd personally consider and LCD-based TV or RPTV if I knew I was going to play a lot of console games because I just don't want to worry about making sure not leave it paused, or to change the game every so often from games that might have a static HUD or other image in the same place all the time.

Js: I don't know anything about DLP. But it sounds promising. Does it have burn-in issues?

Regarding space usage: My experience has been that tubes are the biggest and most unwieldy. . . then rear projection (my 53" Sony CRT-based RPTV is quite a bit less deep than the 36" Sony Wega tube I tried). Again, I don't know about DLP, but based on what JsARCLIGHT said, I think this might be a thinner RPTV alternative. Then, of course, you've got all your flat-panel TVs. But, as JsARCLIGHT said, LCD has a lot of limitions in black level quality, pixel response time, etc. Though, really, they've gotten a lot better just recently.

H

[Hurin]

Go into a Ultimate Electronics or Best Buy and gander at the different types and see what "grabs" you right off the bat. First impressions are important when it comes to TV's, if it doesn't "wow" you then why bother? Next step would be to investigate the specific units that interest you. If you see a track record of unhappy consumers in reviews and such online then you might want to avoid that one.

This might be the only place where I have a minor quibble.

I've never seen a superstore that displayed their TVs in a decent way. They always have the TVs in "torch mode" with the brightness and contrast jacked all the way up to counter-act the store lighting. And they usually have a signal that is split-to-hell and not showing off a TV's true capabilities.

I know it's sad, but I'd say at least 70% of my buying decision is based on online discussion forums and reviews more than what I see in a TV on the showroom floor. Once I have a TV in mind, I try to find a showroom that has it, and then I really just look for "potential" in the TV, because chances are it looks like crap as it is at your local Circuit City or Best Buy. Though you might be able to talk them into hooking up a DVD player directly to it and letting you tweak some settings. I've seen my personal TV on several showroom floors and it always looks like crap. It's everything I can do to not grab the remote from a salesperson, enter the service mode, and tweak it to look right!

You might also try checking out a local "boutique" home theater specialist. They usually have their TVs tuned a little better. . . they'll cost more if you choose to buy from them. . . but you could just visit their showroom for the better conditions and then buy elsewhere (though I always feel a bit guilty doing that).

H

[JB0]

I largely agree with JsARCLIGHT. Good advice there.

Though, you might enjoy having and HD tv set simply for console gaming. You won't need an HD tuner, but you will need the $20-30 HD pack for the XBox (or PS2 equivalent). You'll then be able to play most games at 480p or even 720p in widescreen. I think there might even be a game or two that supports full HD 1080i resolution (I'm out of the loop now cuz I sold my XBox).

PS2 is progressive scan analog only.

You'll want to consider burn-in issues if you will be console gaming a lot.  Basic precautions can keep any TV from burning in. . . but I'd personally consider and LCD-based TV or RPTV if I knew I was going to play a lot of console games because I just don't want to worry about making sure not leave it paused, or to change the game every so often from games that might have a static HUD or other image in the same place all the time.

I've never caued burn-in on a direct-view CRT.

Js:  I don't know anything about DLP.  But it sounds promising.  Does it have burn-in issues?

DLP has nothing to burn. Like LCD in that respect.

It uses an array of small mirrors on a microchip.

Only technologies tha tuse phospors are prone to burn-in. And plasma sets drive the phosphors harder than CRTs, as I understand things.

Regarding space usage:  My experience has been that tubes are the biggest and most unwieldy. . . then rear projection (my 53" Sony CRT-based RPTV is quite a bit less deep than the 36" Sony Wega tube I tried).  Again, I don't know about DLP, but based on what JsARCLIGHT said, I think this might be a thinner RPTV alternative.  Then, of course, you've got all your flat-panel TVs.  But, as JsARCLIGHT said, LCD has a lot of limitions in black level quality, pixel response time, etc.  Though, really, they've gotten a lot better just recently.

You can get darn thin DLP projectors.

[Ladic]

I already have the componen cables for ps2, which I bought years ago.

Do I buy also component cables for the xbox and GC? if so, which brand?

[CoryHolmes]

My only problem with DLPs and LCDs are their rather narrow viewing angle.

I look at a plasma screen and I can see it perfectly from any angle, which I don't find to be true for the other two big-screen brands. And I won't even touch rear-projection TVs, since they have the worst viewing angle of all.

As well, plama TVs always seem to have better and brighter colours to me.

[Hurin]

And I won't even touch rear-projection TVs, since they have the worst viewing angle of all.

Some RPTVs are better than others. And some are bad in good ways and bad in others.

My RPTV, I can see from any angle horizontally. But it's picky in the vertical. It's really about the lenticular screen and other factors, it's not necessarily the nature of RPTV.

H

[Hurin]

PS2 is progressive scan analog only.

Is there a non-digital TV that does progressive scan?!? I'm not trying to be snotty, I'm seriously asking!

I've never caued burn-in on a direct-view CRT.

It's still possible, but less likely than on an RPTV. The RPTV CRTs are driven a lot harder/brighter in order to project a nice image on the screen. That makes them more prone to burn-in. You'd have to really abuse a CRT (IMHO) to get it to burn, I would think. . . but I'd still be careful!

H

Edited April 6, 2005 by Hurin

[JsARCLIGHT]

I always go to mom and pop "enthusiast" stores to do my drooling but most people don't have those around... (thanks walmart). The one by my new house (Hi Fi Fo Fum... that's their name I sh!t you not) has a great presentation setup but they only carry a very small selection, mostly of the super high end toys. That is the danger and the blessing of shoping "non chain store" is you get to see the units performing in grand style but they usually only carry the uber high end ones.

Also the guys at Ultimate Electronics actually know how to run their setups. They pride themselves on showing you a good signal on their demo units... of course they also pride themselves on bending you over on the price.

[Hurin]

I already have the componen cables for ps2, which I bought years ago.

Do I buy also component cables for the xbox and GC? if so, which brand?

MS makes a standard HDTV cable set for the X-Box that should be $20-30. You can also get a set from Monster Cable for $100 or so. . . personally, I've gradually come to the realization that Monster is a total rip off. Unless you have special needs for super-shielded cable and/or you notice any problems with the less expensive stuff. . . go with the $20-30 one.

And, this is coming from a guy with four Monster component video cables in his HT setup. So, well, I'm not totally immune to their marketing hype. But, each time I bought one (I don't like to take chances with component video), I felt violated.

[Ladic]

I already have the componen cables for ps2, which I bought years ago.

Do I buy also component cables for the xbox and GC? if so, which brand?

MS makes a standard HDTV cable set for the X-Box that should be $20-30. You can also get a set from Monster Cable for $100 or so. . . personally, I've gradually come to the realization that Monster is a total rip off. Unless you have special needs for super-shielded cable and/or you notice any problems with the less expensive stuff. . . go with the $20-30 one.

And, this is coming from a guy with four Monster component video cables in his HT setup. So, well, I'm not totally immune to their marketing hype. But, each time I bought one (I don't like to take chances with component video), I felt violated.

Cool, I didnt see them at Circuit city or Electronicques boutique, I'm gonna give it a try at Best Buy.

BTW, just bought the TV.

Thanks for the input all.

[JB0]

PS2 is progressive scan analog only.

Is there a non-digital TV that does progressive scan?!? I'm not trying to be snotty, I'm seriously asking!

I think they're all digital monitors.

But still, PS2 only outputs progressive-scan analog signals.

I've never caued burn-in on a direct-view CRT.

It's still possible, but less likely than on an RPTV. The RPTV CRTs are driven a lot harder/brighter in order to project a nice image on the screen. That makes them more prone to burn-in. You'd have to really abuse a CRT (IMHO) to get it to burn, I would think. . . but I'd still be careful!

Yah.

You usually see burn-in in old arcade machines. I'm sure yu've seen the phantom maze and Game Over on an old PacMan somewhere.

[JB0]

I already have the componen cables for ps2, which I bought years ago.

Do I buy also component cables for the xbox and GC? if so, which brand?

*ahem*

If you have an older-model GameCube, with the digital AV out, you can get component cables. 30$ from store.nintendo.com. This lets you do progressive-scan. No resolution bonuses.

The XBox... supports high-res component video with the high-definition AV pack.

[CoryHolmes]

But, each time I bought one (I don't like to take chances with component video), I felt violated.

What do you mean, "chances"?

[Vince]

another thing I found out, there are 3 component input on my dlp(older model?)-- the first one is 480i(DVD) and the rest are 1080i(HD), dvi, pc, and 3 s-video input. since I already have a DVD player connected to comp1, the ps2 can only use one of the s-video input. I guess one does really need to consider what will be connected to the tv when shopping for a HD set.

And one more thing, a power filter is a must for HD set, Monster Power make the best IMO. Those for CRT and projection sets go from $70 to $150, those for DLP, LCD, and plasma go from $200 to $400. The sale person at Bestbuy who sold me mine actually told me all I need is the $200 one, and they were using them at the store.

IMO, stick with the major brands and pick the model you are confortable paying for, and you will be happy for a long time.

[Ladic]

is this the cable I need for the Xbox?

http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=801259

But this pack, seems to include the audio cable too.

http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/256439.asp

Edited April 7, 2005 by Ladic

[Gaijin]

The 1st one is the one you'll need for your HDTV to take advantage of the games...the second is the same thing albeit aftermarket, and includes an optical cable as well, if you want to hook your Xbox to your receiver like a DVD player. You of course don't need it if you hook your audio up straight to the TV.

Either will do.

[Ladic]

I don't currently have a recivere, so would the optical cable be worthless without it?

[JB0]

I don't currently have a recivere, so would the optical cable be worthless without it?

Precisely.

Without something capable of taking an optical digital audio feed, there's no point to having the fiberoptic cable.

[Ladic]

gotcha, so question, the first link i posted, do those cables come with the regular audio cables too?

[JB0]

gotcha, so question, the first link i posted, do those cables come with the regular audio cables too?

Says it supports analog audio inputs.

If it doesn't include the cables, they're standard RCA connectors, so you can grab a pair for 10$ at MalWart.

...

Provided you don't already have a dozen RCA cables of varying lengths laying around from God knows what.

[MGREXX]

I say get a nice 45" HDTV LCD t.v. when they get cheap enough (within two years).

They are big, yet flat as to not take up room.

They are light as a feather compared to the other dead weight T.V.'s.

[Gaijin]

gotcha, so question, the first link i posted, do those cables come with the regular audio cables too?

Yeah, the Microsoft HD pack contains the audio RCA cords as well...it's the same connector as the standard one except you get component cables instead of a composite cable and it has a port on the connector for the optical if you want to use it.

[JB0]

I say get a nice 45" HDTV LCD t.v. when they get cheap enough (within two years).

They are big, yet flat as to not take up room.

They are light as a feather compared to the other dead weight T.V.'s.

Yes, but we've already established that you're about as sharp as a marshmellow.

Your price predictions are laughable. Your justifications are pathetic. You are inane.

[Hurin]

But, each time I bought one (I don't like to take chances with component video), I felt violated. 

What do you mean, "chances"?

I mean, "take a chance" that I'm losing some of the video quality I paid for when I bought the TV, DVD player, and HD service, because I bought cheap cables.

Again, I think the cables are a rip-off. But I still sometimes decide to be ripped off for the piece of mind that comes with knowing that I have cables that are definitely more than I need.

H

[Gaijin]

Monster cables are waaaay overpriced...they're good, but many times no better than cheaper brands...you pay for the name and fancy packaging. Also, DVI and HDMI cables from them range in the $150+ range...and perform no better than a generic $10 one(digital signal).

The only bad component cables I've seen came from my cable company that they included with their HD DVR box....they were ultra thin white cables and look very washed out...I had to replace those.

[HWR MKII]

Projectors i say. LCD projectors. I dont mean rear projection tv either where you have to sit directly in front of the thing. Im talking a 10ftx5ft visual picture on your wall. nice and clear too for all media applications.

[JB0]

Projectors i say. LCD projectors. I dont mean rear projection tv either where you have to sit directly in front of the thing. Im talking a 10ftx5ft visual picture on your wall. nice and clear too for all media applications.

DLP projector!

Darker blacks, brighter whites, and pray you don't see the rainbow effect.

[HWR MKII]

No rainbow here only bad part is i cant play ace combat on any other screen i feel i cant see anything

[CoryHolmes]

Projectors i say. LCD projectors. I dont mean rear projection tv either where you have to sit directly in front of the thing. Im talking a 10ftx5ft visual picture on your wall. nice and clear too for all media applications.

My only problem with projectors is that with every one that I've looked at, the colours just seemed washed out and flat.

[MGREXX]

Yes, but we've already established that you're about as sharp as a marshmellow.

Your price predictions are laughable. Your justifications are pathetic. You are inane.

And you are a dipshit who is ignorant of consumer electronic trends and the concept of supply and demand. Why not stop bashing me and go get your G.E.D. instead. A brain........it does a body good.

Back to the topic, projections are no good. They are big, bulky and still have a sweet spot. I like watching my T.V. from any anwhere instead of being forced to watch it directly.

Edited April 8, 2005 by MGREXX

[JB0]

Yes, but we've already established that you're about as sharp as a marshmellow.

Your price predictions are laughable. Your justifications are pathetic. You are inane.

And you are a dipshit who is ignorant of consumer electronic trends and the concept of supply and demand. Why not stop bashing me and go get your G.E.D. instead. A brain........it does a body good.

Unlike some people, I actually made it through high school.

Anyways...

What makes an LCD expensive is the manufacturing process. Baring radical new fabrication techniques, we've just about hit the limits of practical direct-view LCDs.

Supply and demand is irrelevant.

We just can't GET larger LCDs reliably enough for a consumer price point to be viable. It's not a matter of people wanting them, it's a matter of being able to make them in volume. We can't, and there's no visible way to do it near-future.

If you knew anything about electronics manufacture, you'd understand this.

Or in words more appropriate for someone of your intellectual caliber...

Bigger = harder, and we're already working as hard as we can.

Back to the topic, projections are no good.  They are big, bulky and still have a sweet spot.  I like watching my T.V. from any anwhere instead of being forced to watch it directly.

Depends on the tech used, as well as the kind of projector.

Front-projection works great. I dare you to find a movie theater with a limited viewing angle.

Try to find one with a DLP projector. Fun, I tell ya. No film scratches, no dirt, no nothing. And it's relevant.

Weren't you just advocating direct-view LCD, anyways?

LCD DEFINES limited view angle.

Sharp as a marshmellow, I tell ya.