Macross II versus Macross 7

[Agent ONE]

AND THIS SITE IS HOSTED IN AMERICA!    FU(K YEAH!!!

Actually, being hosted in America means the server has more legal limitations than most any other country.

Yeah, ecept we are talking about freedom of speech, which is NEVER restricted in the USofA. You seem to miss the point in just about everything you comment on? Do you have poor reading skills or are you just stupid?

Actually, this is a privately owned website. There is no freedom of speech here. The rules are what Shawn says they are, he pays the bills. So, unless Shawn has a problem, I don't see a problem.

True. I just wanted to say: "AMERICA! FU(K YEAH!!!"

[Tekkaman Blade]

Since you include text as a form of speech, that includes anything illegal you say and inform others about.

On a side note, if you're going to try to comment that you don't want the forum to turn into a totalitarian system, say so. Communism is not related to totalitarianism in anything other than history. Democracy can easilly turn totalitarian as well, it's a matter of corruption.

[Duke Togo]

I'd be the first to leave if we started having strictly enforced threads just because someone doesn't like the fact that other people think what they personally enjoy sucks.

[pfunk]

I think it does need to be toned a bit, Im hard skinned, but some people arnt.

we all know that A1 hates M7 with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns. Its OK to voice an opinion, not saying that, but I think the language could be toned a bit out of respect,, like "F" bombs perhaps, lemme know what ya think, I think that a little toning like A1 said he could do would help out

[Hurin]

I'd be the first to leave if we started having strictly enforced threads just because someone doesn't like the fact that other people think what they personally enjoy sucks.

That's the best reason to have such a thread that I've heard yet!

[yellowlightman]

I'd be the first to leave if we started having strictly enforced threads just because someone doesn't like the fact that other people think what they personally enjoy sucks.

Awesome, let's get these "strictly enforced" threads in place pronto.

It's one thing to say "I don't liek Macross 7," but when certain people feel the need to continually voice their opinion and derail otherwise worthwhiel threads is when it becomes an issue. Don't make it out be some "oh no, I can't voice my opinion." Opinion has nothing to do with it. It has to do with stopping the individuals who have nothing better to do than belittle an anime series online to make up for their insecurities in the real world.

If you think Graham's suggestion is to extreme, you obviously need to spend more time on other forums. The moderators here let us get away with a lot.

[Duke Togo]

If you think Graham's suggestion is to extreme, you obviously need to spend more time on other forums. The moderators here let us get away with a lot.

His suggestion is fay because he wants to do it out of personal interest, not out of any sense of fairness. Being a Macross 7 fan is a bit like being a Mets fan in NY... you are just going to have to deal with the fact that the majority of us are Yankees fans, and we are going to laugh at you because your team sucks.

[yellowlightman]

If you think Graham's suggestion is to extreme, you obviously need to spend more time on other forums. The moderators here let us get away with a lot.

His suggestion is fay because he wants to do it out of personal interest, not out of any sense of fairness. Being a Macross 7 fan is a bit like being a Mets fan in NY... you are just going to have to deal with the fact that the majority of us are Yankees fans, and we are going to laugh at you because your team sucks.

So because people are in the minority they don't have the right to discuss something they enjoy? I don't see how wanting to b able to discuss a Macross series without having to deal with idiots derailing the thread is anything BUT fair.

Again, it's not a matter of people saying "I hate Macross 7" it's a matter of people saying it so much it destroys threads and ruins any discussion therein.

[Duke Togo]

Discussing Macross 7 would ruin any thread.

[Agent ONE]

If you think Graham's suggestion is to extreme, you obviously need to spend more time on other forums. The moderators here let us get away with a lot.

His suggestion is fay because he wants to do it out of personal interest, not out of any sense of fairness. Being a Macross 7 fan is a bit like being a Mets fan in NY... you are just going to have to deal with the fact that the majority of us are Yankees fans, and we are going to laugh at you because your team sucks.

So because people are in the minority they don't have the right to discuss something they enjoy? I don't see how wanting to b able to discuss a Macross series without having to deal with idiots derailing the thread is anything BUT fair.

Again, it's not a matter of people saying "I hate Macross 7" it's a matter of people saying it so much it destroys threads and ruins any discussion therein.

I don't know what you are talkin about man, I have never ruined a Macross 7 thread... Do me a favor and go look at the Schwarzenegger thread. Members are throwin insults all over the place in there, from the supposed bad acting of THE OAK, to his steroid use.

So what do I do!???? Nothing. I just keep going with my admiration for 'The Greatest.'

I only point this out to bring contrast to the way I handle things and the way M7 fans handle things. They cry like pathetic little girlie men... They cry to the mods, cry to each other, cry to the Admins.

[Duke Togo]

And, by the way, why is it we are "idiots" because we don't like something you do? See, this is why you people have problems. You are far more abusive to us than we are to you. We can't discuss what we don't like about Macross 7 without being attacked.

The real problem is, Macross 7 fans can't come up with any real defense for how bad it is. I'm not keeping track, but I am sure Keith (God bless him) is still going around telling peopel who don't like Macross 7 that they "don't understand it".

[Mechamaniac]

Like Egypt and Israel man, the battle rages on...

[yellowlightman]

I don't know what you are talkin about man, I have never ruined a Macross 7 thread... Do me a favor and go look at the Schwarzenegger thread. Members are throwin insults all over the place in there, from the supposed bad acting of THE OAK, to his steroid use.

I wasn't referring to anybody in specific, the problem with the Macross 7 haters goes far beyond the actions of one person.

What happens is that someone starts a thread about Macross 7, and the Macross 7 haters come and start "sharing" their opinions about Macross 7, when really that has nothing to do with the topic. Then the Macross 7 defenders come up to defend the series and an argument starts and the thread is destroyed. By prohibiting the haters from starting the fight in the first place, the idea is that actual discussion about Macross 7 can occur.

[yellowlightman]

And, by the way, why is it we are "idiots" because we don't like something you do? See, this is why you people have problems. You are far more abusive to us than we are to you. We can't discuss what we don't like about Macross 7 without being attacked.

No, you're idiots because instead of posting something worthwhile in threads you simply post poo like "Macross 7 is stupid." Over and over again. If you want to discuss why you hate Macross 7 start your own threads about it, instead of invading other threads to piss off the people that actually (god forbid) LIKE Macross 7.

[Agent ONE]

And, by the way, why is it we are "idiots" because we don't like something you do? See, this is why you people have problems. You are far more abusive to us than we are to you. We can't discuss what we don't like about Macross 7 without being attacked.

No, you're idiots because instead of posting something worthwhile in threads you simply post poo like "Macross 7 is stupid." Over and over again. If you want to discuss why you hate Macross 7 start your own threads about it, instead of invading other threads to piss off the people that actually (god forbid) LIKE Macross 7.

YLM,

Go ahead and start an "I HATE M7" thread, just SEE how long it lasts.

[yellowlightman]

YLM,

Go ahead and start an "I HATE M7" thread, just SEE how long it lasts.

Probably, but that's no excuse to "discuss" how much you hate Macross 7 in other threads.

[Agent ONE]

YLM,

Go ahead and start an "I HATE M7" thread, just SEE how long it lasts.

Probably, but that's no excuse to "discuss" how much you hate Macross 7 in other threads.

Hmm, well... Its all the excuse I need.

You need to realize that I am on a mission. I have a purpose.

Imagine some RT fan decides to leave the dark side and come and discover Macross... He/she first picks up M7, and of course, is shocked and horrified. He/she then comes to MW to find out how and why this thing was made, then sees threads of sissies strokin each other's poles over this utterly turbo lame show. This potential Macross fan will be turned off forever!!

Now envision this same scenario but this time when the potential fan is reading through the threads in disgust... There is a shaft of light from the heavens for CROM's humble servant has laid his fist down in rage! This potential fan NOW SEES that there is order in the uinverse... There ARE those who stand against the ways of weakness, those who stand against childish homoerotic garbage glued to an epic space war story... And they are found at MACROSS WORLD!

[Jemstone]

Hmm, well... Its all the excuse I need.

You need to realize that I am on a mission. I have a purpose.

Imagine some RT fan decides to leave the dark side and come and discover Macross... He/she first picks up M7, and of course, is shocked and horrified. He/she then comes to MW to find out how and why this thing was made, then sees threads of sissies strokin each other's poles over this utterly turbo lame show. This potential Macross fan will be turned off forever!!

Now envision this same scenario but this time when the potential fan is reading through the threads in disgust... There is a shaft of light from the heavens for CROM's humble servant has laid his fist down in rage! This potential fan NOW SEES that there is order in the uinverse... There ARE those who stand against the ways of weakness, those who stand against childish homoerotic garbage glued to an epic space war story... And they are found at MACROSS WORLD!

Then we'll just give them free copies of DYRL (not Clash of the Bioroids) and Macross Plus to balance it all.

[bsu legato]

Then we'll just give them free copies of DYRL (not Clash of the Bioroids) and Macross Plus to balance it all.

Hey, in the dark days before DVD I would have appreciated even a copy of COTB.

[Jemstone]

Then we'll just give them free copies of DYRL (not Clash of the Bioroids) and Macross Plus to balance it all.

Hey, in the dark days before DVD I would have appreciated even a copy of COTB.

That was then when we had no choice. Let's not scare the new fans with drunken John Wayne Roy and tripping on acid friends. However, never fear since Exo has a "gayness measuring stick" to warn to rate the level of any show to warn all of us first.

Disclaimer: THis isn't a bash at Exo and he knows what I'm talking about. LOL

Edited April 5, 2005 by Jemstone

[JB0]

I don't know what you are talkin about man, I have never ruined a Macross 7 thread... Do me a favor and go look at the Schwarzenegger thread.  Members are throwin insults all over the place in there, from the supposed bad acting of THE OAK, to his steroid use.

I wasn't referring to anybody in specific, the problem with the Macross 7 haters goes far beyond the actions of one person.

What happens is that someone starts a thread about Macross 7, and the Macross 7 haters come and start "sharing" their opinions about Macross 7, when really that has nothing to do with the topic. Then the Macross 7 defenders come up to defend the series and an argument starts and the thread is destroyed. By prohibiting the haters from starting the fight in the first place, the idea is that actual discussion about Macross 7 can occur.

At least it's not cropping up in EVERY thread like it was for a little while.

"Macross Plus is awesome!"

"Yeah. Not like Macross7, which am TEH SUX!111"

[VF-18S Hornet]

I hate Do You Remember Love, just to be different. 

If you don't like DYRL THEN DON"T BE IN HERE.

Edited April 4, 2005 by VF-18S Hornet

[Zentrandude]

Like Egypt and Israel man, the battle rages on...

thousands of years from now archaeologist will discover a stone tablet about the battles between mac7 haters and mac7 likers and a lady will sing a simple song that will unite our clones and fight for freedom.

[JB0]

Like Egypt and Israel man, the battle rages on...

thousands of years from now archaeologist will discover a stone tablet about the battles between mac7 haters and mac7 likers and a lady will sing a simple song that will unite our clones and fight for freedom.

And the song will be titled "0G Dance".

[Mechamaniac]

Like Egypt and Israel man, the battle rages on...

thousands of years from now archaeologist will discover a stone tablet about the battles between mac7 haters and mac7 likers and a lady will sing a simple song that will unite our clones and fight for freedom.

And the song will be titled "0G Dance".

ROFLMAO...

Ai Oboete Ibasara...

[Major Johnathan]

Like Egypt and Israel man, the battle rages on...

Actually, Egypt and Israel signed a peace treaty a long time ago. Not that they love each other or anything...

[Mechamaniac]

Like Egypt and Israel man, the battle rages on...

Actually, Egypt and Israel signed a peace treaty a long time ago. Not that they love each other or anything...

OK, so Israel and Palestine, Cats and Dogs, Coke and Pepsi.

Y'all know what I mean...

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

thousands of years from now archaeologist will discover a stone tablet about the battles between mac7 haters and mac7 likers and a lady will sing a simple song that will unite our clones and fight for freedom.

Then does that mean Macross 7 fans = meltran.

and the m7 haters = zentran.

:D

And the consumer whore are the humans taking the technology

I think the problem with debates like this, is lots of people won't give what they hate a chance. As much as they are not fans of the series, they may discover in time there is some deep message underneath it. I knew the minute I had seena few episodes that this was not what I was hoping for. Especially when the original macross was all about technology, killing, war, this one seemed to be more about the humans themselves and thier own hidden potential. But I forced myself to kind of understand it.

Yes the valks look ugly, yes it isn't as cool as macross plus, and the main character's own songs are sung much too repetitively. Unlike in DYRL the culture shock wasn't as much a 'weapon' or a distraction to bring the zentradi back to normal. This time the culture that was lacking in ourselves (who were becoming too reliant on destructive force, and heroic idols) was the key to winning.

To me Macross 7 tries to link the 'creative' (female?) part of human mind with the destructive (male?) side of the mind and the characters like the 'males and females' killing each other in wars in DYRL reflects our own struggle to allow our hidden male or female side to awaken. (in humans. The universe where all this struggle happens being the human mind) Whereas minmay was the sole creator of this song energy in the original, basara was more like the "teacher" getting us all to use our own energy to create the energy to become somewhat self sufficient so that when the idols pass on, their inspiration allows others to take his place. (the alice holiday character is a fine example: she used up all her energy and felt her creativity and passion was lost until her fan inspired her to keep singing. An over worked person needs to loosen up and relax and forget the pressure to want success over wanting to create new things for people)

If you are familiar with Jung's ideas on "anima and animus", characters like basara are not so annoying because thier convictions make more sense. To me if a character's ideals do not makes sense I find it hard to apreciate personally because they just come off as irrational and annoying. Once I get what they are thinking, (treating dangerous enemies as equal as the humans without a thought) watching the show is not like being raped like the first time you saw it and were too focused on it not being what you hoped for and expected. But just because I apreciate it, does not mean I HAVE to like it. (there are millions of little things I would have preffered to see, over it.)

It's quite possible to really like and apreciate a poem or a song, or a movie, but it not being "your thing" so much that you would want to see more of it. It might be intellectually stimulating but not as entertaining and relaxing as something else. The problem though with debates is most people just won't give the things that they are not into, a chance.

If macross was more like gundam you would have too many people complaining that its just the same stuff over and over again (just replace the zentradi with a new alien species) and they might start to get sick of it over time. I think macross 7 was a deseperate attempt to try and go further with the idea of "creation" (Carl Jung's "our female half in all males, and male half in all females" idea) rather than making the problem the fault of aliens, it tried to go further by saying it's something inside ourselves that needs to be expressed to fight the universal threat of wars in all species. (and in the real world a famous artists with charisma can help to bridge gaps)

In SDF:macross and DYRL the problem of the warring, was because aliens forogt the culture, whereas in macross 7 it's US who are partly the problem too: that we need to create for ourselves instead of being a void that consumes culture. By not consuming it, and instead, sharing and creating it ourselves (through creative activities like singing, dancing, performing, making our own art etc that can inspire other artists to keep up thier career. Even something as simple as creatingyour own unique dance moves..) we become self-sufficient and not such a destructive threat to other cultures out there who might be in danger of being destroyed by us. An example in macross zero: the mayans 'culture' and thier singing, myths, connection to thier spiritual powers was completely taken away by the war between the anti-un and un in macross zero as more and more people were moving into cities for a more 'consumer' culture. What happens when sara and Mao are gone? Thier culture will be forgotten just like the cultures before thiers, and the protoculture before that. Without culture to inspire others to be entirely 'creative' and self sufficient themselves, people become just like the protodevlin which are zombies feeding off other people's hard work, by only consuming and "stealing" other people's energy like vampiric parasites and becoming too reliant on others to survive, and the cycle repeats until there is nothing left to take. It's not about being antiwar or pro-war but solving the energy crisis and the enemies' incentive to take and be needy.

I'm not saying haters have to like macross 7 or fans have to convince everyone that they are wrong for not liking it, just that each side gives the other a chance. Not all people's opinions stay the same and over time some opinions may even change. They may go from hating something, to slowly apreciating it, and maybe years and years start to like it for something. If you seperate the haters and the fans, all you are doing it preaching to the converted. If everyone in the world had the exact same taste we'd be in a boring place. Everyone shouuld have a right to state thier opinion on something and not have to be called an idiot to pressure them to agree with you. Their opinions should be formed by themselves over time, so that they start to agree with your side once they thought about it for themselves rather than giving into pressure by a majority who just want converts to thier side.

When you go to forums when everyone else is in agreement, sure it is more PEACFUL, but it's also more boring. The truth is, lots of people probably come to forums like this to hear other people's different opinions about something (they probably just don't know they do) although they will never admit it. IF you want peace: peace comes with understanding. You don't have to have the same opinion, just understand the other side and maybe tolerate differences rather than whining about thier complaints about something you love and apreciate, because you didn't get your way.

Edited April 5, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Major Johnathan]

No, you're idiots because instead of posting something worthwhile in threads you simply post poo like "Macross 7 is stupid." Over and over again. If you want to discuss why you hate Macross 7 start your own threads about it, instead of invading other threads to piss off the people that actually (god forbid) LIKE Macross 7.

I made the same points in a thread about Star Trek Enterprise... bad memories, bad,bad memories . I tried the 'can't we all get along' and 'if you don't have something nice to say...' and I got shanked from all directions.

My advice to M7 fans, fill up your flame throwers and fight back or deny you like the show and agree with everything Agent ONE and Duke Togo say. ( If you need ammo against A1, he's a fan of Austrian body builders and Barry Manilow, what more do you need? )

Face it, MW has become Lord of the Flies.

[JB0]

thousands of years from now archaeologist will discover a stone tablet about the battles between mac7 haters and mac7 likers and a lady will sing a simple song that will unite our clones and fight for freedom.

Then does that mean Macross 7 fans = meltran.

and the m7 haters = zentran.

:D

For the record, the meltran are hot. And the zentran are covered with nasty gangrenous boils, and led by a tentacled head in a jar.

So sayeth DYRL.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Nah only the leaders are genetically modified to a point where they are ugly enough to scare people. Most of the soldiers are like us. Besides that was just the movie with hollywood makeup artists turning them slimy. How do you know these were the real zentrans?

After all Exedol didn't have tentacles in macross 7 did he? I think some of the bridge crew may have even thought he was handsome.

Edited April 5, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Mechamaniac]

After all Exedol didn't have tentacles in macross 7 did he? I think some of the bridge crew may have even thought he was handsome.

Nah, he still had the tentacles. You just don't see them much until later in the series.

[Zentrandude]

After all Exedol didn't have tentacles in macross 7 did he? I think some of the bridge crew may have even thought he was handsome.

Nah, he still had the tentacles. You just don't see them much until later in the series.

yah he was always sexualy harrassing the bridge bunnies with "check out the tentacles on the deck below gag"

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Your sick H doujinshi images don't count as canon.

That's interesting, I thought by now they would have given the old man hands or something. How does he eat and stuff?

Edited April 5, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[JB0]

Your sick H doujinshi images don't count as canon.

That's interesting, I thought by now they would have given the old man hands or something. How does he eat and stuff?

He has tentacle hands.

Seriously. Tentacles that end in balls with 5 mini-tentacles coming off of them.

...

I hate DYRL-style zentradi. Why can't they just be people with wierd skin colors?