Macross II versus Macross 7

[Zentrandude]

No seriously, what is it about M7 that makes people so retarded? I mean, we've got quotes from Mein Kampf in here, FFS!!! Usually that kind of overblown melodrama only surfaces in a Star Wars thread. Maybe this just proves the point that M7 is the most hated better than any poll could ever do. After all, I don't recall anybody quoting Pol Pot or Stalin in any Macross II thread.

Some people like it, most hate it. The more people hate Macross 7, the more vehemently the fans will defend it. Put yourself in the place of those who like it and ask yourself if you wouldn't do the same. Imagine someone saying Macross in general was crap and Gundam was way better. I bet I can guess your reaction...and mine.

here's a better question: Is G Gundam better than Macross 7?

a better question is ...

is Pokemon better than Macross 7?

I choose you Gubabachew. guba guba!!

[Agent ONE]

Man I just love how Macross 7 brings out the best in so many people.

Well, the best is all I have to offer, since after all... I AM the best.

[Agent ONE]

Recommend you look up "conciliatory" in the dictionary and then re-read the last line of your last post, as you seem to be suffering from some sort of selective memory.

I said "relatively conciliatory". . . meaning "more conciliatory than that which came before" and I still think it was. Sorry if my tone isn't coming across.

I could care less what Final Vegeta said, I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy that people get on his case for making a ridiculous post about Macross 7, when everyone and their mother chimes in on a Macross 7 thread about how lame it is. At least Final Vegeta made some attempt to back up his statements.

This is like the first time in eons that Agent ONE has given any reasons for his thinking. . . ...

I CAN back up everything I say... But do I need to? Isn't my awesomeness enough?

[Jemstone]

Recommend you look up "conciliatory" in the dictionary and then re-read the last line of your last post, as you seem to be suffering from some sort of selective memory.

I said "relatively conciliatory". . . meaning "more conciliatory than that which came before" and I still think it was. Sorry if my tone isn't coming across.

I could care less what Final Vegeta said, I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy that people get on his case for making a ridiculous post about Macross 7, when everyone and their mother chimes in on a Macross 7 thread about how lame it is. At least Final Vegeta made some attempt to back up his statements.

This is like the first time in eons that Agent ONE has given any reasons for his thinking. . . ...

I CAN back up everything I say... But do I need to? Isn't my awesomeness enough?

No......

[JB0]

But the same can go for Macross 7. Some of its defenders are willing to admit that it starts off a bit weak, but "picks up" at the end. I say that's too little, too late.* I can't be bothered to endure 20-30 episodes of crap just to get to the meat and potatos of a show. My time is worth more to me than that.

* I dub this the ZZ Gundam phenomenon.

Personally, I thught Mac7 was interesting from the start.

It's the later episodes that are annoying me somewhat.

But some people are doing what I consider the equivalent of judging the entirity of the original Macross story based on Flashback 2012.

If you give it a fair chance, fine. If you watch 2 episodes and deem the whole thing crap, that's diffrent

[jenius]

Personally, I watched the whole thing and I was VERY tempted to quit it after the first disc (like 6 episodes). I hung in there and around episode 1600 (or at least it felt like that many) it started to grow on me. I went from wanting to burn my own eyes out with a hot poker to wanting to punch the people responsible for it in the mouth... which is a big step up from self-mutilation. Then it ended with some cute bonus episodes which helped reduce the puke taste in my own mouth. Still, I've seen the whole thing, once, and I'm sticking to my guns on this one. The hatred for m7 has grown above 50%

[BoBe-Patt]

well I actually like both series. So there!

[Baseley09]

Start slow?

The only M7 complaint i have is the early middle, fair lot of fillers there. Apart from that, the lack of Battle 7 action, particularly close ups.

BTW, this thread is so happy person.

[pfunk]

ya know whats funny,

Im afraid to see Mac7, seen MacII and yes, it kinda sucked

[jenius]

BTW, this thread is so happy person.

Nothing adds credibility to an argument like a statement as intelligent and eloquent as that.

Since you might not understand, the sentence above is written with sarcasm.

[Aegis!]

You know what ?

Why don´t we just close every M7 that´s started from now on ? really, even if they´re started with a good intention , even if brings out some nice read , we ALL know it´s gonna end bloody and disturbingly stupid.

What favour does it make to this community if every single one of this threads ends like this ? Why bother letting this threads be posted ? why not put a filter or something to evade M7 threads being posted ? It´s getting really sad and boring , we´re supposed to be grown ups right ?

Why waste time higlighting the bad issues within macross fans ? why not pursue the good things ? we all like macross. period.

[Zentrandude]

im surprised the thread isn't locked yet. its like watching a nuclear reactor go from normal to "if your reading this, its too late so turn around and look at the pretty green radioactive cloud".

[JB0]

im surprised the thread isn't locked yet. its like watching a nuclear reactor go from normal to "if your reading this, its too late so turn around and look at the pretty green radioactive cloud".

Ooooohhh, greeen. My favorite color.

[Jemstone]

You know what ?

Why don´t we just close every M7 that´s started from now on ? really, even if they´re started with a good intention , even if brings out some nice read , we ALL know it´s gonna end bloody and disturbingly stupid.

What favour does it make to this community if every single one of this threads ends like this ? Why bother letting this threads be posted ? why not put a filter or something to evade M7 threads being posted ? It´s getting really sad and boring , we´re supposed to be grown ups right ?

Why waste time higlighting the bad issues within macross fans ? why not pursue the good things ? we all like macross. period.

I disagree. I think BSU's done a pretty good job of allowing people to give rational reasons for disliking either show. This thread is pretty tame compared to most past threads. There's only been about 3 or so posts that have really been inflammatory and one just totally from the left field. If you want to stress that everyone is an adult here then why filter the topic?

Just face the fact that Macross 7 is a part of the Macross universe and will always be a point of debate. Every fandom of a series seems to have one show nobody can ever agree on (Star Trek DS9, G Gundam/Gundam Wing, Transformers Armada, Will Smith Movies). It can be an annoying discussion but that's what this board is for. I don't think Macross 7 topics need to be banned so long as people remain rational overall. I know it's asking to much for every single person involved not to be inflamatory but that's unavoidable. It may not be the best aspect of being a Macross fan but it's a fact one must live with.

Just saying this topic doesn't have to eb a black eye on a Macross forum.

Edited April 2, 2005 by Jemstone

[azrael]

I don't think Macross 7 topics need to be banned so long as people remain rational overall. I know it's asking to much for every single person involved not to be inflamatory but that's unavoidable.  It may not be the best aspect of being a Macross fan but it's a fact one must live with.

Unfortunately, history has dictated that all M7 threads end like this.

edit: At one time someone posted a light hearted story about M7 and how it inspired him/her (I think is was justvinnie from the old board). Then people come along and post the same usual "it sucks" stuff. Then the pro-M7 group counters, then the anti-M7 crowd comes back, and so forth. This is why people like Keith have stopped posting in these types of threads. As part of the pro-M7 crowd, am I arguing the merits of M7? No. Why should I? It just leads to endless debate which goes nowhere. Which is why all of these threads end up the same way.

Edited April 2, 2005 by azrael

[Jemstone]

I don't think Macross 7 topics need to be banned so long as people remain rational overall. I know it's asking to much for every single person involved not to be inflamatory but that's unavoidable.  It may not be the best aspect of being a Macross fan but it's a fact one must live with.

Unfortunately, history has dictated that all M7 threads end like this.

So everybody just gives up and relegate themsleves as a community to being less than the level of Robotech fans like Banky?

EDIT:

edit: At one time someone posted a light hearted story about M7 and how it inspired him/her (I think is was justvinnie from the old board). Then people come along and post the same usual "it sucks" stuff. Then the pro-M7 group counters, then the anti-M7 crowd comes back, and so forth. This is why people like Keith have stopped posting in these types of threads. As part of the pro-M7 crowd, am I arguing the merits of M7? No. Why should I? It just leads to endless debate which goes nowhere. Which is why all of these threads end up the same way.

That doesn't justify the mass surrender to chaos going on here. It's not inevitable like people have convinced themselves to believe. Possible but people make it inevitable when they can't control themselves. I find it much easier just skipping posts that say things like "That sucks" with no merit. I totally ignored Vegeta whatever. If I can do that anybody can. Bowing out of a discussion for fear of what is possible is just being a weak wimp.

Edited April 2, 2005 by Jemstone

[Zentrandude]

some things are best not to talk about. (being serious here so please no cheap shots)

[Jemstone]

some things are best not to talk about.  (being serious here so please no cheap shots)

No such thing. Again it's up to people to control themselves. I know things can be worked out and at least be civil because I've seen it with fandoms that are even fiercer amongst themselves. I'm a Nascar fan and proud of it. Have been one since 1986 (yeah odd for someone predominatently raised in Boston, Ma) and there are few fan abses that are so pasionate about their sport and the drivers.

One driver has seemingly split the fans in half the last decade; Jeff Gordon. Anytime this guy wins a race there is sure to be a frenzy. I watched this past Feb as he won the Daytona 500 and the debate regarding it didn't end in a blood bath. Something notorious in the Nascar fandom is the rampant and sometimes seemingly inconcievable hatred of Jeff Gordon (by those outside the sport anyways). Even now there's a thread that's been going on titled 'Why do people hate Jeff Gordon" that's remained pretty civil. Of course there's a couple fools trying to mess it up but of the 270 replies or so it's been very civil and calm. Even with the diehard Earnhardt fans and the diehard Gordon fans that defend each of their drivers like they are Jesus.

I don't see why we can't be any different especially as there will always be Macross 7 threads. Some new fan will ALWAYS come along and ask for Macross recommendations. DYRL and Plus will always be at the top and Macross 7 and II at the bottom. My gawd, people need to pull themselves together and just act mature about not agreeing with the show. It's not like we are asking for peace among Red Sox fans and Yankess fans or worst Palestinians and Isrealies which are fueds that have run for decades.

I find it ironic and all around weird that I'm trying to be the voice of reason about arguments......

Edited April 2, 2005 by Jemstone

[Aegis!]

So everybody just gives up and relegate themsleves as a community to being less than the level of Robotech fans like Banky?

whatever.

That doesn't justify the mass surrender to chaos going on here. It's not inevitable like people have convinced themselves to believe. Possible but people make it inevitable when they can't control themselves. I find it much easier just skipping posts that say things like "That sucks" with no merit. I totally ignored Vegeta whatever. If I can do that anybody can. Bowing out of a discussion for fear of what is possible is just being a weak wimp.

Mass surrender to what ? useless repetitive threads that do not contribute to anything cause they ALL end up being a flame-war ? really , don´t be so naive. It´s common knowledge a M7 thread will soon transform into this.

We´re lucky this thread hasn´t YET come to the level of other M7 threads. I appreciate the good intentions behind this threads , I myself made a couple of them.

I used to be a M7 fan , I haven´t stopped liking it but nowadays I just simply don´t give a crap about it anymore cause all it causes are senseless fights.

As much as one acan skip this threads it just acts like a magnet for heated debate , useless debate for the most part.

At least the first few M7 threads in the old board served the purpose of setting up most of people´s opinion on the matter but now every sngle new M7 thread is just a repetition of itself.

That´s why I said what I said , not because I´m a wimp who can´t tolarate debate , I actually once got off my rails in a full 3 page fight because of M7 and i would be willing to do it again BUT...

is it worth it ? is it worth the time when we KNOW we´ve had the same fight OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN ?

IMO No.

[Jemstone]

Aegis, I'm just going to quote you in kind since you would rather brush aside a topic that just goes witht he territory of being a Macross fan just like Robotech is a source for heated discussion with "whatever."

[yellowlightman]

One driver has seemingly split the fans in half the last decade; Jeff Gordon. Anytime this guy wins a race there is sure to be a frenzy. I watched this past Feb as he won the Daytona 500 and the debate regarding it didn't end in a blood bath. Something notorious in the Nascar fandom is the rampant and sometimes seemingly inconcievable hatred of Jeff Gordon (by those outside the sport anyways). Even now there's a thread that's been going on titled 'Why do people hate Jeff Gordon" that's remained pretty civil. Of course there's a couple fools trying to mess it up but of the 270 replies or so it's been very civil and calm. Even with the diehard Earnhardt fans and the diehard Gordon fans that defend each of their drivers like they are Jesus.

I find that really ironic considering Gordon is one of the few NASCAR drivers that can actually drive (y'know, left AND right hand turns) and manages to do pretty well on the road courses when all the other teams are calling in substitutes.

Not discussing Macross 7 is kind of a ridiculous rule, since it's definately a large part of the Macross universe. The problem isn't Macross 7, it's those that argue about how much it sucks or how much it doesn't-- that discussion is damn near irrelevant because everyone has their own opinion.

The best solutuon would be to just put a ban on stupid "Macross 7 is lame, OMG" posts, but that's easier said than done and would likely require quite a bit of work on the part of the mods since I doubt the people here could really self-moderate themselves given the apparent importance of the topic.

[Lightning]

One driver has seemingly split the fans in half the last decade; Jeff Gordon.  Anytime this guy wins a race there is sure to be a frenzy. I watched this past Feb as he won the Daytona 500 and the debate regarding it didn't end in a blood bath.  Something notorious in the Nascar fandom is the rampant and sometimes seemingly inconcievable hatred of Jeff Gordon (by those outside the sport anyways). Even now there's a thread that's been going on titled 'Why do people hate Jeff Gordon" that's remained pretty civil. Of course there's a couple fools trying to mess it up but of the 270 replies or so it's been very civil and calm.  Even with the diehard Earnhardt fans and the diehard Gordon fans that defend each of their drivers like they are Jesus.

I find that really ironic considering Gordon is one of the few NASCAR drivers that can actually drive (y'know, left AND right hand turns) and manages to do pretty well on the road courses when all the other teams are calling in substitutes.

actually, within the past 3 or 4 years quite a few oval drivers have been proving themselves on the road courses; in fact there were about 15-20 that drove in the 24/Daytona race this year. After Gordon wins his next championship (whenever that may be) I've heard he's going straight to F1. When Montoya and Williams came to Indy when Jeffy was there, they traded cars for a few laps and....Gordon was faster in both cars! (I used to loathe Jeffy mind you, but now, since he doesnt win week after week, he's not so bad, he might even be human )

back on topic:

I thought that the car designs in M7 were cool...

[JB0]

back on topic:

I thought that the car designs in M7 were cool...

I still like Kaifun's car in the original series.

[Mr March]

No seriously, what is it about M7 that makes people so retarded? I mean, we've got quotes from Mein Kampf in here, FFS!!! Usually that kind of overblown melodrama only surfaces in a Star Wars thread. Maybe this just proves the point that M7 is the most hated better than any poll could ever do. After all, I don't recall anybody quoting Pol Pot or Stalin in any Macross II thread.

Some people like it, most hate it. The more people hate Macross 7, the more vehemently the fans will defend it. Put yourself in the place of those who like it and ask yourself if you wouldn't do the same. Imagine someone saying Macross in general was crap and Gundam was way better. I bet I can guess your reaction...and mine.

here's a better question: Is G Gundam better than Macross 7?

I shiver with fear at the such a thread

[Tekkaman Blade]

Although I thuroughly enjoyed a lot of the ship designs and some of the mecha in Macross II, I didn't like the story or the characters overall.

As for Macross 7, I don't hate it all, it's my favorite. The story seemed iffy at times, but the great cast of characters made up for anything. M7 is one of my favorite "feel good" animes. I like to watch it when I'm feeling down, it perks me up.

[Agent ONE]

I don't think Macross 7 topics need to be banned so long as people remain rational overall. I know it's asking to much for every single person involved not to be inflamatory but that's unavoidable.  It may not be the best aspect of being a Macross fan but it's a fact one must live with.

Unfortunately, history has dictated that all M7 threads end like this.

edit: At one time someone posted a light hearted story about M7 and how it inspired him/her (I think is was justvinnie from the old board). Then people come along and post the same usual "it sucks" stuff. Then the pro-M7 group counters, then the anti-M7 crowd comes back, and so forth. This is why people like Keith have stopped posting in these types of threads. As part of the pro-M7 crowd, am I arguing the merits of M7? No. Why should I? It just leads to endless debate which goes nowhere. Which is why all of these threads end up the same way.

As long as blood pumps through the mighity veins of Agent ONE I will remind you all of my stance on M7... And why do some members quit posting their opinions!!?? Because they are worthless and weak, just like that pantywaste of a show they like.

[JB0]

I don't think Macross 7 topics need to be banned so long as people remain rational overall. I know it's asking to much for every single person involved not to be inflamatory but that's unavoidable.  It may not be the best aspect of being a Macross fan but it's a fact one must live with.

Unfortunately, history has dictated that all M7 threads end like this.

edit: At one time someone posted a light hearted story about M7 and how it inspired him/her (I think is was justvinnie from the old board). Then people come along and post the same usual "it sucks" stuff. Then the pro-M7 group counters, then the anti-M7 crowd comes back, and so forth. This is why people like Keith have stopped posting in these types of threads. As part of the pro-M7 crowd, am I arguing the merits of M7? No. Why should I? It just leads to endless debate which goes nowhere. Which is why all of these threads end up the same way.

As long as blood pumps through the mighity veins of Agent ONE I will remind you all of my stance on M7... And why do some members quit posting their opinions!!?? Because they are worthless and weak, just like that pantywaste of a show they like.

You mis-spelled pantywaist.

[Jemstone]

You mis-spelled pantywaist.

Is that what he was saying? I thought he meant "pansy waste of a show" or something.

[Duke Togo]

Hey, how about that, 50% of the membership still hates Macross 7. Good to see little has changed around here.

[Agent ONE]

You mis-spelled pantywaist.

Is that what he was saying? I thought he meant "pansy waste of a show" or something.

He did

[Max Jenius]

Hey, how about that, 50% of the membership still hates Macross 7. Good to see little has changed around here.

Based on 46/2000+ votes?

[JB0]

Hey, how about that, 50% of the membership still hates Macross 7. Good to see little has changed around here.

50% of the people that have voted, which is... almost none of the membership.

Anyways, assuming a statistically signifigant sampling, it proves my point nicely.

Everyone doesn't hate Macross 7, which is the impression people get out of threads discussing Mac7.

Even if we split the "hated Mac2" votes 50/50 because some of them just hated Mac7 LESS(though Mac7 threads lend the impression that it's impossible to hate anything more than Mac7), it's still only 2/3s that hate Mac7.

Even if EVERYONE that hates Macross 2 also hates Macross 7 that sitll leaves a quarter of the board that DOESN'T hate Mac7. Which is still a far cry from "everyone but Keith hates Mac7, and he's just in the closet about it."

Of course, that's all IF the poll is a statistically signifigant sampling, which at this point it isn't.

[Agent ONE]

Now comes the part where all the worthless-tampon-sucking-pussy-M7 fans sign in with their other usernames to skew the result. I mean they are spineless so its not like they REALLY want a discussion.

[JB0]

Now comes the part where all the worthless-tampon-sucking-pussy-M7 fans sign in with their other usernames to skew the result. I mean they are spineless so its not like they REALLY want a discussion.

Riiiight.

[Tekkaman Blade]

oops, and here I thought I already posted.

Edited April 3, 2005 by Tekkaman Blade