Palladium Games

[broadcast]

Does anyone else think that the Robotech/Macross RPGs they put out suck? Their mechanics (I'm not a technical tard, but the inaccuracies in the games are just THAT glaring). The Super Veritech is not a standard Veritech with a fast pack but a completely different model, the Lancer Space Cruiser is actually a fighter etc etc.

I mean the Macross 2 deckplans are a sheer travesty! They list the Macross Cannons as being around 400m long when they even have shots from the movie in the book itself that show it's bigger than the biggest zentran command ship. I mean, were the designers not looking at the actual drawings/film when they created this stuff up in a drug-induced craze? Could they not see that the main guns and arms of it look exactly like the big command ships? and the fighter/mecha compliments of some of these ships borders on ridiculous! I did a rough math calculation, and some of these ships carry upto 115% of their internal volume of mecha.

Could someone please tell me I'm wrong and I'll be able to sleep at night.

[twich]

I think that the system was clumsy, and would like a revamp to more modern games such as d20...

Also, I believe this will probably be moved and/or deleted because it is not really relevant in the topic, probably other animes since it has to do with Robotech.

Sorry

Twich

[azrael]

The RPGs from Palladium are what....more than 10 years old...RPGs have somewhat evolved from that time.

Also RPG specs are, of course, inaccurate. Why? Because they are designed for the game, not to be taken as canon. This is why they are off. And this is why we don't cite them as a valid source. Those specs are there for your gaming pleasure, not to be debated. Of course they're inaccurate, but come on...it's just for a game.

[Druna Skass]

I get those books for the pretty pictures...

[yellowlightman]

The Robotech RPGs were made in the late 1980's, with very limited resources and (apparently) not the best translator. Keep in mind it was a time where aniem fans didn't have anything close to the amount of information we have available to us now, so they did what they could.

The Macross II Deck Plans suffered from a similar problem, where the hell were they supposed to get deckplans for those ships from? Best part about those deck plans were that they were done by DreamPod9, who later went on to do Heavy Gear and Jovian Chronicles.

[Agent ONE]

Those books have cooool pictures!

[1st Border Red Devil]

Also RPG specs are, of course, inaccurate. Why? Because they are designed for the game, not to be taken as canon.

*snicker*

Don't tell that to the RPG nazi's on Palladium's boards. They swear that anything shown in the books is canon and the show(s) doesn't matter.

[CoryHolmes]

Also RPG specs are, of course, inaccurate. Why? Because they are designed for the game, not to be taken as canon.

*snicker*

Don't tell that to the RPG nazi's on Palladium's boards. They swear that anything shown in the books is canon and the show(s) doesn't matter.

Yes, and the same thing happens at RT.com, here at MW.com, even over at the Compendium...

I spend time here to disucss Macross. I go to RT.com to discuss canon Robotech. I go to the PBs boards to discuss the Robotech world that they presented (which is my favourite of the three, really).

Are the games inaccurate? God, yes. Are they the best example of an RPG? Not really. Are they fun, giant robot carnage games? Absolutly. Most of the changes PB made, aside from stats and such, were mostly for game balance, I find.

[azrael]

Most of the changes PB made, aside from stats and such, were mostly for game balance, I find.

Yep. As I said, designed for the game, not for canon.

Don't tell that to the RPG nazi's on Palladium's boards. They swear that anything shown in the books is canon and the show(s) doesn't matter.

Meh.

[Gui]

God, I spent hundreds of hours of my life playing this game and I can say it's the complete and absolute sucker, even when you do your best trying to custom the rules and skills as well as mechs specs to get something more or less related to the original show, wether it is mecha combat or the whole 'universe' (but it's true that this last one's particularly messy anyway...)

If you want a good mecha-based RPG, go for Mekton (dunno what release they're at for now, I ceased to play RPG a while back...) and reproduce what you need from this awesome building system by Talsorian Games, it'll be easier, quicker and more accurate in being more faithfull in the same time

[Cruel Angel's Thesis]

Yeah have to agree if you want the best in mecha bashing Mekton is the way to go. Right now Talsorian is sitting in hiatus right now. Pondsmith took a job at Microsoft for a while so company shifted into part time and didn't really put anything out, besdies Dragonball Z RPG (which was always funny, casue Bird Studio had to approve the book but they kept forgetting they had a RPG out in the US, so everytime the book was sent over it sat for several months till they noticed it and asked if anyone knew).

Currently Pondsmith is working to get Cyberpunk V3 out. When that is out Gundam Senki (a Gundam RPG covering the UC storyline before Operation Stardust using Mekton's system with some tweaks) will finally be put out, then another Mekton supplement from Atomic Rocket Games and there has been talks (started by me) about maybe finally doing Mekton ZZ (and its probably going to be Fuzion).

I have the Robotech RPG myself, but i only have for info when i was first starting to do the Valkyries for Mekton, now i have been using the Compendium and other Macross sites as well as my collection of Macross books to do the job now. The Palldium system was too much like a offshot of the old D&D (2dn ed.) and i hated that system my friends knew it. Well thats my 2 credits.

Cruel Angel's Thesis

[Goshawk]

I think that the system was clumsy, and would like a revamp to more modern games such as d20...

Twich

I agree with you Twich, I wish it could be remade as d20. I think it would be alot more enjoyable espically when we can add all the information that has come out.

[CoryHolmes]

The thing is, I've never found any conversions to the Mekton system that had the same flavour of Robotech as the Palladium system had.

And I hope to whatever Gods and Goddesses that are out there that D20 doesn't get the Robotech license. I enjoy the D20 system greatly, and have half of their games already, but I really detest their vehicle movement system. None of their rules for that appeal to me at all, so I would hate to have to use that to control a Veritech or a Cyclone.

Though I will admit that the Base Attack Bonus and various modifiers for each type of weapon is one the best rules of any RPG that I've seen.

Edited March 30, 2005 by CoryHolmes

[j_wong00]

Yeah have to agree if you want the best in mecha bashing Mekton is the way to go. Right now Talsorian is sitting in hiatus right now. Pondsmith took a job at Microsoft for a while so company shifted into part time and didn't really put anything out, besdies Dragonball Z RPG (which was always funny, casue Bird Studio had to approve the book but they kept forgetting they had a RPG out in the US, so everytime the book was sent over it sat for several months till they noticed it and asked if anyone knew).

Currently Pondsmith is working to get Cyberpunk V3 out. When that is out Gundam Senki (a Gundam RPG covering the UC storyline before Operation Stardust using Mekton's system with some tweaks) will finally be put out, then another Mekton supplement from Atomic Rocket Games and there has been talks (started by me) about maybe finally doing Mekton ZZ (and its probably going to be Fuzion).

I have the Robotech RPG myself, but i only have for info when i was first starting to do the Valkyries for Mekton, now i have been using the Compendium and other Macross sites as well as my collection of Macross books to do the job now. The Palldium system was too much like a offshot of the old D&D (2dn ed.) and i hated that system my friends knew it. Well thats my 2 credits.

Cruel Angel's Thesis

Wierd, my friends and I still play D&D 2nd ed. and we feel it's one of the best.

Then we use the little known "Player's Option" rules, where it adds a LOT more in customizing the character.

Oh well, that's off topic.

Back to the actual topic at hand.

I do have many of the RT RPG Palladium books (and more the few of the RIFTS books), and I found it to be not an overly bad system.

It's far from perfect, but still fun.

[Seto Kaiba]

Yeah, I've actually been working on errumating the Macross II RPG book stats in an attempt to make them somewhat closer to the sizes that are seen on screen (by comparison to nearby known classes, like the Nupetiet Vergnitz classes, etc).

Buddy, there's no way in hell the Macross Cannon is only 480m long. it's carrying the front halves of FOUR Nupetiet Vergnitz cruisers around. That thing's a good 4000m and counting. (Effectively ranged between about 3500 and 4400m by my maths.)

If you'd like, I can send you my calculations for the proper sizes.

[JELEINEN]

Palladium's house system is in pretty bad shape, and likely to never get fixed given its creator's attitude. Personally, what I'd use for a Macross-based game is FATE.

[briscojr84]

Has anybody read the d20 future book, unfortunately it's like just about every system that has mechs in it, it has a slot system that wouldn't work well with any mecha based anime.

[Goshawk]

Thing that I hate, unless they changed thier ways, once you send something in, you no longer have rights to it, the only thing you get out of it is that is published in a Rifter or something and they have the rights to totally rewrite it if they seem fit.

When I first started playing Rifts I wanted to write something up and send it in, then I read the rules of sending items in.

lol Sorry Im the new guy around here, let me get off my soap box and let someone thats been around have it. lol

Edited March 30, 2005 by Goshawk

[JELEINEN]

Has anybody read the d20 future book, unfortunately it's like just about every system that has mechs in it, it has a slot system that wouldn't work well with any mecha based anime.

If you're going to go with D20, then I'd recommend GoO's D20 Mecha book. And actually, slot systems are rather uncommon. Most are point builds (Mekton, GURPS, BESM) or occasionally freeform (Jovian Chronicles, Heavy Gear).

[briscojr84]

I've seen the D20 mecha book, I didn't like it much either, they really need to hire somebody that knows something about engineering for when they do these books.

[valk1j]

I've been running a Macross d20 game using GoO's d20 mecha for about a year now. I've modified some rules for combat and movement to make the game run more smooth. I think d20 mecha is far better than d20 future for building mecha, especially for mecha based off Macross.

Edited March 30, 2005 by valk1j

[Guest Bromgrev]

they really need to hire somebody that knows something about engineering for when they do these books.

Who are "they"? D20 is an open system - maybe someone should start a MW syndicate to produce a D20 Macross game. Of course, the name might have to change. マクベス　instead of マクロス, maybe?

[Roy Focker]

I've actually been toying with the Action! System. Someone made a fan created mecha version called Mecha Assembler which could be converted to Macross needs.

As for Palladium games it was fun at the time but there has to be something better out there. I still play Macross on message boards and find myself drifting away from Palladium with my ten thousand house rules in its place.

[CoryHolmes]

Thing that I hate, unless they changed thier ways, once you send something in, you no longer have rights to it, the only thing you get out of it is that is published in a Rifter or something and they have the rights to totally rewrite it if they seem fit.

When I first started playing Rifts I wanted to write something up and send it in, then I read the rules of sending items in.

That's part of business.

If Kawamori were to hold an open send-in for information or designs for his next major Macross mecha, would you be upset if he did a little creative editing to fit it into his ideas for his own show?

[Shadow Skull]

I've actually been toying with the Action! System. Someone made a fan created mecha version called Mecha Assembler which could be converted to Macross needs.

As for Palladium games it was fun at the time but there has to be something better out there. I still play Macross on message boards and find myself drifting away from Palladium with my ten thousand house rules in its place.

I don't think many of GMs who run Macross RPGs on message boards follow the Palladium rules that closely. It does have some serious flaws though, hell I could never figure out why a character got an extra action for having boxing, even if they alread had Hand to Hand Avanced or something better then that.

[CoryHolmes]

They've completely revamped the combat system with their new game, "Splicers" (which is a pretty damn good book, actually).

Later this year, Palladium is releasing Ultimate RIFTS. Updates (hopefully a better proof-reader) and some new artwork.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

I totally hate Palladium's game system. Sucks monkey nuts.

There was a Kevin Siembada Hate site out there on the web somewhere.

[Guest Bromgrev]

There was a Kevin Siembada Hate site out there on the web somewhere.

That's a surprise ... Not!

[Pat S]

My friends and I were able to eek out some fun from that system, but eventually we created out own, using those books as basic guides for stats and whatnot. I actually got the feeling that they cared about that license. Rifts had some fun ideas as well I thought.

[Prime]

There was a Kevin Siembada Hate site out there on the web somewhere.

"I just wanted to entertain!"

[Skull Leader]

I had the pleasure of meeting Kevin once at a comic convention. He was actually a pretty nice guy. I asked him about their Macross stuff and he was readily in agreement that there is probably a better way it could've been done, but Palladium is all about inter-lacing all of their games so they can be used together if players wanted... hence he tried to make it fit into that system. He admitted to not being a true die-hard fan of the series at that time (he says he always liked it, but only later became a big fan, but the game books were almost completely written by then).

I think if he had it to do all over again, he would've gone in a completely different direction... certainly a faster-resolving system.

Edited April 5, 2005 by Skull Leader

[Graham]

I first bought the Palladium Robotech RPG back in 1988 or 89. I thought the rules system was ok for running a character based game, but absolutely sucked when it came to simulate Macross style mecha combat.

Graham

[yellowlightman]

I first bought the Palladium Robotech RPG back in 1988 or 89. I thought the rules system was ok for running a character based game, but absolutely sucked when it came to simulate Macross style mecha combat.

Graham

The problem with the Palladium system is that it came from Kevin's own largely-fantasy homebrew system he used in campaigns with friends. I suppose in Palladium's attempt to maintain one constant system, some things had to be sacrificed, in this case decent mecha combat. Really, when you think about that it's pretty unexcusable.

Oddly enough, when Siembieda approached HG for the Robotech license, Steve Jackson Games was negotiating with HG for the Robotech license, but that fell through and Palladium ended up with it.

[Guest Bromgrev]

The problem with the Palladium system is that it came from Kevin's own largely-fantasy homebrew system he used in campaigns with friends. I suppose in Palladium's attempt to maintain one constant system, some things had to be sacrificed, in this case decent mecha combat. Really, when you think about that it's pretty unexcusable.

Oddly enough, when Siembieda approached HG for the Robotech license, Steve Jackson Games was negotiating with HG for the Robotech license, but that fell through and Palladium ended up with it.

Said it before (in another place), and I'll say it again - Fantasy systems never work when translated into modern or SF. I don't think GURPS would have done much better, and let's not mention D20 ... I Know, I did, but I've changed my mind! Hey, I like D&D3.5, but not for adventure in the far future.

Edited April 6, 2005 by Bromgrev

[yellowlightman]

Said it before (in another place), and I'll say it again - Fantasy systems never work when translated into modern or SF. I don't think GURPS would have done much better, and let's not mention D20 ... I Know, I did, but I've changed my mind! Hey, I like D&D3.5, but not for adventure in the far future.

I totally agree. I think at the time the original Robotech game was being put together, the only system that could have done it justice was Mekton and that had all the rules for making your own mecha, so it was kind of irrelevant.

I don't touch D&D or any WoTC stuff unless I'm desperate. Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay has always been the end-all fantasy gaming for me. Certainly not the best rules (and really wouldn't work very well in any other setting) but leaps and bounds ahead of the competition of the time (AD&D 2nd edition was absolute garbage).

Last I heard Palladium lost the Robotech license or let it expire because HG wasn't letting them release any new supplements. Makes me wonder if any other company will bother to release a new Robotech RPG, and if the market is even there anymore for anyone to buy it.