Scratchbuilding Oberth

[honneamise]

I´m planning to scratch build an Oberth Class ship as a project for the next few months. Just based on the sketches/plans in Perfect Memory with some additional paneling and small details to get a better feel of the size of the "real" thing. But this is where I start wondering just how big is this ship??

UN SPACY Database and some other sources say it is 215m in length while some Robo****-sites claim it is 390m. I´d say I dont´t believe in Roboyouknowwhat and go for the 215m, but If you check the Perfect Memory Cover there are four ships depicted, Oberth, ARMD, Prometheus and Deadalus. Assuming these are the same scale the Oberth will be indeed closer to 390m than just 215m.

Do any of you guys know what is the real size? Have there been any "official" stats? Please help me!

By the way, I am new to MW and I hope this topic has not been already discussed do death somewhere, but If so, feel free to remove this post.

[Zentrandude]

the compendium doesn't say what size but its more sence that its around 215m since armds are around 430m.

[honneamise]

So you´d say I should ignore the "comparison" of the ships on the Perfect Memory cover Art?

The ARMD is about 7 cm in length(on the actual cover), so if that is 430m then the Oberth (if 215m long) should be half this size (3,5cm). But on the cover it is 7cm long, just slightly smaller than the ARMD.

I am really confused. As you say, I feel the Oberth should be MUCH smaller than an ARMD Carrier, but - If the comparison is meant to be to scale - it is quite a BIG ship....

[Zentrandude]

its hard to say. its one of those artistic guess. 215m is pretty large still considering the asuka is 250m

[honneamise]

Yeah I agree. I guess the smaller length will do for me because it looks more reasonable. I just imagine a VF-1 landing inside the gun barrels of the 390m version-too silly!

But-is the Asuka (you mean the M-0 Carrier)really that small? I mean- today´s carriers are all about 330-340 m long, I really thought the Asuka was even slightly bigger!

[Zentrandude]

yes the compendium says its a small scale carrier. It doesn't need to hold everything a modern real life carrier. Just remember its up to the builder and macross has its huge amount of errors through out all the series, movies, mags/books so we are used to them and forgive it well some of us anyways . after all its just anime not detailed blueprints.

[honneamise]

You are right, Zentrandude! After all, that is why I like Macross/Anime models more than others. OK you COULD complain about this panel line being incorrect or too many rivets on that part of the fuselage. But if I want to nitpick, I build a Tank or a real live plane.

So my Oberth will be as long as I like it to be, with as many panel lines as I want it to have, and as long as it looks like an Oberth I will be fine. Of course I hope you all will like it too. I´ll post some images of the progress but this will probably be early in may since I first have to finish my latest project (Star Trek Voyager Aerowing, sorry no Macross)

[chrono]

Actually if you know the height of the Macross 1 then you should be able to round the number down in closeness to within 10 meters.

Just scan the Perfect Memory cover and flip the Oberth and compare.

[honneamise]

Yes I thought so too. But look at the visible portions of Daedalus and Prometheus attached to the Macross - they are MUCH bigger than the side views of the two carriers so SDF-1 is NOT to scale with the four individual ships on the cover!

At least it seems that the four side views are meant to be in scale, but, knowing the length of ARMD-01 (430m), the length of the Oberth will be more or less about 390metres.

But somehow - I´ve got a bad feeling about this....

[Ravenstar]

can someone post a pic of the Oberth ?

[honneamise]

Here it comes

[Grayson72]

That's a cool looking ship, I don't think anyone has ever made a model of it (someone correct me if I'm wrong here).

What scale are you shooting for?

[Zentrandude]

don't think so either other than cgi.

[Ravenstar]

Ok , I know that ship , just know it was the Oberth . I can't wait to see what you come up with. I had thought about doing one years ago , but never got around to it. Glad to see someone tackle it.

chris

[chrono]

Yes I thought so too. But look at the visible portions of Daedalus and Prometheus attached to the Macross - they are MUCH bigger than the side views of the two carriers so SDF-1 is NOT to scale with the four individual ships on the cover!

That's why you simply rescale until the D or P match the scale of the ones attached to the Macross. Just include the O in the image that is being rescaled and then crop it out later and then compare. This way you've automatically rescaled.

If that's not enough then scan the O on page 166 along with the D & P on 148 and the Macross from page 138 and do the same thing!

Scaling isn't rocket science.

[Gundamhead]

Here's what I've found.

Chrono, comparing those pictures won't give you a correct scale unless there are known lengths for all the ships you are comparing. Then you could scale them to each other.

ARMD 430m

Prometheus 512m

Daedalus 488m

Oberth ?(215-390m) I say 215m or even smaller.

The ships on the cover of the PM are not to scale with each other, just a graphic. The The ships are not to scale with the SDF-1, Destroids are not to scale with each other, and flip it over, all the Zentraedi are not to scale with each other. That's not gonna reallly help you.

The Oberth is a destroyer class while the ARMD, Daedalus and Prometheus are super carriers. In modern days and navies past, a Destroyer is significantly smaller than a carrier class. Battleships and cruisers are bigger than destroyers, but smaller than carriers. Destroyers are generally very fast and light packing a large amount of firepower and less armor.

The Oberth has 4 main cannon that are mounted forward. If it were the size of the ARMD, those cannon would be bigger (bore) than the SDF-1's main cannons. It would also be slow to turn to pick a taget. That seems counter to it's design of massive engines and canon. Also of note are missiles. It would be ridiculous for the UN SPACY to commision a ship which carried nukes so enourmous that they'd require their own small fleet to create and resupply. (Not at least when the VF can carry 6 large tactical nukes) Also the antenae and mast would seem to be overly large for a ship nearly 400m long.

I'm sorry I wasn't able to find a actual length, (other than the 215m). To me that makes more sense being at least as 1/2 as long as the ARMD carriers. At 215m, those cannon are still enormous, but the missiles would be more believable.

In the animation the explosions and battles imply a smaller ship than ARMD carriers, but that is the nothing concrete.

[MechTech]

As its been said, scaling is not difficult. Start with what you know. As an avid scratchbuilder, I HIGHLY recomend you start with a virtual grid. You can get one out of most drawing software.

1) Cut and paste what things you do know (even if it's a destroid)

2) Make your calcualtions (eyeball it) by dragging out your Oberth.

3) Give your grid panels a size value to convert it to your model size

4) Take the time and DRAW it (trace what you can)out in the views you can't find

5) Make sure it ALL fits together afterward, paper is cheaper than plastic

Then work your way with points of referance. I am building a 1/200th scale Daedalus and ALL of the measurements listed were WRONG!!! There are drawings that clearly show destroids side by side and other details that make it MUCH smaller than what others say. If you can only verify a missle size, put it on the grid and scale it! I built the "Tunny VTOL" solely by the views and size of a standard size airline door! That was before I got my "Macross Pefect Memory Book" only to find all of the beautiful views and details I didn't have before. Guess what, I was on the mark! The key is spending a lot of time on your PC or paper.

[chrono]

Here's what I've found.

Chrono, comparing those pictures won't give you a correct scale unless there are known lengths for all the ships you are comparing. Then you could scale them to each other.

ARMD 430m

Prometheus 512m

Daedalus 488m

Oberth ?(215-390m) I say 215m or even smaller.

The ships on the cover of the PM are not to scale with each other, just a graphic. The The ships are not to scale with the SDF-1, Destroids are not to scale with each other, and flip it over, all the Zentraedi are not to scale with each other. That's not gonna reallly help you.

The cover ships Oberth, D, P, and ARMD are all taken from the pages listed and are all keep to scale with each other. Check for yourself. So even knowing 1 length is enough to give you the measurement of any of the ships within the Perfect Memory book or within Macross itself.

Now if we were to consider your analog to modern day navy's then the Macross herself would be considered a Super Carrier and the Oberth would most definatly be of the size of a modern Destroyer(more correctly over-sized PT boat). Oh and her over-sized weapons regardless of final size are totally offset by her massive engines.

But now that you've got me looking at the PM book more throughly.... you don't even need any of the other ships to figure her length. Just find out the size of the missiles she launchs.

honneamise

In the end regardless of what her final size is keep her scaled within herself! MechTech is SOOOOOOOooooooo right on that point!!!

[nanashino]

I´m planning to scratch build an Oberth Class ship as a project for the next few months. Just based on the sketches/plans in Perfect Memory with some additional paneling and small details to get a better feel of the size of the "real" thing. But this is where I start wondering just how big is this ship??

UN SPACY Database and some other sources say it is 215m in length while some Robo****-sites claim it is 390m. I´d say I dont´t believe in Roboyouknowwhat and go for the 215m, but If you check the Perfect Memory Cover there are four ships depicted, Oberth, ARMD, Prometheus and Deadalus. Assuming these are the same scale the Oberth will be indeed closer to 390m than just 215m.

Do any of you guys know what is the real size? Have there been any "official" stats? Please help me!

By the way, I am new to MW and I hope this topic has not been already discussed do death somewhere, but If so, feel free to remove this post.

There are no official specs for the Space Destroyer.

Here is the Nanashi's entry:

http://nanashino.macrossmecha.info/warships/oberth.html

What is shown on the cover of Macross Perfect Memory may not be to scale.

[honneamise]

Wow! Thank you guys for all your opinions, statements and support! It seems really hard to figure out who is right because EVERY opinion pointed out here makes perfect sense to me!

Well what I intend to do is to build this thing to 1/1000 scale. This seems a good size to me for an individual model (if 21,5cm long it´s not too small and if I go with the 39cm it´s more impressive on the shelf, but still not too big)

or- if I manage to get enough time and patience - it makes a cool companion piece for an ARMD Carrier AND -if I don´t lose my eyesight, I could make some scale VF-1 /Lancers and create a little fleet. That´s what I wanted to do and building an Oberth seemed to be the easiest starting point ... then I began thinking about the size...

I have now found out that the SDF on the cover of the PM Book is 1/4100 and the four side views of the ships are 1/5750 (if) based on the 512m of the Prometheus. The Daedalus then turns out to be 425m-not too close if it should be 488m-and the ARMD is partially hidden by the SDF but will be MUCH bigger than the Daedalus which is wrong again! Not to speak of the Oberth which is a massive 400m if to scale with the Prometheus.

I really thought they were constant scale. Contrary to what has been stated I found out that the 4 side views on the cover are NOT just copies of those in the book - the handdrawn style reveals lots of differences in detail and even in proportions. The side view of the Oberth on page 166 shows all three missile bays in front of the engines while the one on the cover features them further aft so you can see only two of them with the third one obscured by the engines.

I thought: cool, Kawamori has drawn them again for the cover to make them more accurate AND to scale, but it turned out to be wishful thinking.

Regarding the process of scaling based on known objects or "standard" looking parts, there really seems to be nothing that gives a hint. The missiles seem to be unique to this ship (as are most of the missiles in Macross - to me it seems almost every Destroid/ship/whatever has its own type of missiles), there are no hatches or windows for a good estimate.

I guess in the end I will simply base the size of my Oberth on common sense:

In the anime an Oberth explodes with an ARMD in the background. Assuming the two ships are not too close together, the Oberth appears more half the length of the ARMD than the same length.

The radar tower and the massive guns - I agree, these things appear just TOO big assuming the ship is 390m, so it should be MUCH smaller.

And, thank you Nanashi, a crew of 125 points to a smaller ship, not a big beast of 400 m.

I WILL GO FOR 215m so my Oberth will be 21,5cm long. No more sleepless nights for me. Thank you all for your valuable input. And I always thought the size-shifting ships were all from Star Trek...maybe it is the class name´s fault

[Grayson72]

Oh man, I was hoping you would go for 1/72 scale

[honneamise]

Grayson72 I would love to do a 72nd with officers on the bridge and firing guns, but my secret plan is of course to BEGIN with the Oberth and END with a SDF-1 in the same scale, maybe when I´m retired (or I live forever and build a SDF-2 and then a Megaroad). The 72 scale will be slightly too big then I suppose....

By the way I found out the maximum size for a finished model to leave my workspace is 2m by 75cm or else I need a bigger flat

[honneamise]

So finally I scaled all the plan views to 1/1000 then made LOTS of changes and adjustments to the proportions ( they are all inconsistent in the lineart drawings) I started to build an Oberth. Hope this will finally look almost anime-correct but as you can tell by the first pics it will be a long way to go so for now have a good laugh. Got almost completely discouraged when I saw the Captains Regult and how fast he did it.

[honneamise]

Sorry for the first picture, found out too late it is way too big. Here is a smaller side view

[Grayson72]

Looking good so far, how are you cutting that wood, it looks very precise?

Is that balsa or basswood?

[HWR MKII]

I thought it was evergreen sheet styrene? Looks like a good framework.

[honneamise]

Well the basic frame is made of 2mm styrene while the rectangular "main" part is 6mm thick. The "ribs" on the sides are from Evergreen. They will not be seen on the finished model, the engines will get a corresponding part on the inside to slide them in place for accurate placement.

I have now glued some ribs to the underside, then the whole thing gets filled and sanded to shape. Looks awful at the moment, I´´ll post more images when the sanding is done.

[Zentrandude]

nice. I await to see the upcomming pics of that

[honneamise]

Here two tube sections are glued on to form the recessed shape where the big guns go.

[honneamise]

After some filling and sanding mayhem the underbelly starts to take shape.

[Guest Bromgrev]

Looking good, Honneamise! Keep us posted on your progess.

About time someone tackled an Oberth. There are too few Macross ships models out there ... ... hear that, Hasegawa?

[HWR MKII]

SWEET

[Grayson72]

Awesome man! can't wait to see how it comes out. Ok so it's not wood, how did you cut the styrene so precisely?

[honneamise]

Well Grayson72 I just cut the Styrene along a ruler with a common cutter. I then sand the part again to get rid of those raised seams that are always present along the cutting lines (at least if you use a cutter, a saw will make a "seamless" cut but I haven´t got one). Maybe that´s why it looks very clean after all.

I added more underside details and made the aft portion of the fuselage more angular, looked too shallow when I looked at the lineart again. Now it is time for some more filling and sanding but I´m done for today. Had way too much coffee

[Ravenstar]

Honneamise , while I'm still new to this forum and haven't seen your work before , you are builing that thing like a Pro. ice work. Can't wait to see it finished.

Are you planning on Kit'ting the Oberth?