Newbie Questions on Macross

[dreamweaver13]

Okay, that, I can believe.

(Still doesn't explain why no one was out on the street in the city Guld and Isamu trashed, though...surely SOMEONE must have been on his way to the market because they ran out dip or something...)

i also kinda have my doubts about the citizens just being simply hypnotized. sure, everyone watching should indeed be hypnotized. but to think that everyone was inside the buildings? i don't know....

the reason why i thought the city looked deserted, aside from there being absolutely no people even in the streets, is that well, literally, it looked dead. no flashing lights. no neon signs. no movement. nothing. it felt like a model city -- "ready for occupancy in the year 2050!!". and if the city is alive, and sharon apple is also hypnotizing people here, then her image should be spread out on the building sides, or on any holo screens across the city.

and we also have to consider that the only time isamu and guld heard sharon's voice was when the Ghost came into proximity. which means the signal of her concert was coming from the Ghost. if the city was already hypnotized by Sharon, then her signal should have been all over the place even before the Ghost showed up.

basically, it really just had a feeling of a dead city. i've seen mac+ countless number of times, and it's always the impression that i got. i only thought of this question now because of the talk on population.

but i wouldn't say it was a city left uninhabited because of the bodoloza attack. because the city looked like it was in pristine condition. no sign of destruction. that's why i was guessing that it was a city being built for future occupancy. and if that's the case, it offers an interesting insight on the way humanity seeks to re-populate and recover earth after the space war.

[dreamweaver13]

Macross City is a major settlement and quite massive based on the map, but we don't know exactly how many other settlements exist on Earth (at least settlements of any consequence). I'd be really surprised if there was anymore than a few hundred million people living on post-war Earth during the 2040s. Cloning and the Factory Satellite would no doubt aid growth, but it's reclamation and resources that's the biggest problem on post-war Earth. At any rate, we see massive barren, blasted portions of the Earth from orbit in the Macross Plus anime (there's one scene specifically shown during the Ghost testing, when the X-9 is destroying those orange VF-11 drones). So we have to assume large portions of the Earth are not reclaimed or inhabited.

In answer to your questions:

1. I'll repost my answer to another member:

So there's actually more than enough humans remaining to repopulate naturally. But the use of Protoculture cloning technology helps the human population grow far, far more quickly.

thanks march! actually, i was thinking of editing out question number 1. it was funny when i saw my question posted, and you answered it quite perfectly... in the post previous to mine. At first i thought: psychic!

2. I doubt Macross City was deserted, just very empty. The 30th Anniversary ceremony combined with the most popular music idol in the Galaxy is likely what lead to the empty feeling of the city. Most everyone would be at the ceremony/concert. And it was early morning. I remember the early Sunday mornings in my old home city of Calgary (approx 1 million pop). The downtown core looked like a ghost town, no pun intended

as for Question2, i don't think that was macross city (where isamu and guld were fighting). i got the impression that it was a very long distance away. hence, the time it took for the Ghost to arrive even after lifting off quite earlier.

Edited May 20, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[Gubaba]

...And if it hadn't been empty, I'm sorry, but no amount of pleading on Millard's part could've saved Isamu's ass. If those buildings had people in them, then he and Guld caused hundreds if not thousands of deaths.

And the city was far enough away from the Macross itself that it was night in Macross City but only late afternoon (apparently) in the city where they dueled, so he couldn't really say, "Sorry, but I was fighting Sharon. Civilian casulaites were unavoidable."

Edited May 20, 2008 by Gubaba

[Mr March]

as for Question2, i don't think that was macross city (where isamu and guld were fighting). i got the impression that it was a very long distance away. hence, the time it took for the Ghost to arrive even after lifting off quite earlier.

Yeah, I've heard that theory before. I'm not sure what to make of it. I suppose it could be possible it's a deserted city out in the middle of nowhere. Or maybe a populated city where most everyone has left to go to the ceremony/concert? Or perhaps it's another mock city, like the urban combat zone at New Edwards on Eden? Though, that sounds just a little too convenient Well, whatever the explanation, it could very well be another city. It's hard to say.

[Gubaba]

Yeah, I've heard that theory before. I'm not sure what to make of it. I suppose it could be possible it's a deserted city out in the middle of nowhere. Or maybe a populated city where most everyone has left to go to the ceremony/concert? Or perhaps it's another mock city, like the urban combat zone at New Edwards on Eden? Though, that sounds just a little too convenient Well, whatever the explanation, it could very well be another city. It's hard to say.

Nay, nay, a thousand times nay! It simply CANNOT be Macross City, and it MUST be very far away! Otherwise, Macross City is so magical that part of it is in darkness while the other part is enjoying the afternoon sun!

[Mr March]

Okay Thor, sounds good me. Verily

[grss1982]

Macross City is a major settlement and quite massive based on the map, but we don't know exactly how many other settlements exist on Earth (at least settlements of any consequence). I'd be really surprised if there was anymore than a few hundred million people living on post-war Earth during the 2040s. Cloning and the Factory Satellite would no doubt aid growth, but it's reclamation and resources that's the biggest problem on post-war Earth. At any rate, we see massive barren, blasted portions of the Earth from orbit in the Macross Plus anime (there's one scene specifically shown during the Ghost testing, when the X-9 is destroying those orange VF-11 drones). So we have to assume large portions of the Earth are not reclaimed or inhabited.

In answer to your questions:

1. I'll repost my answer to another member:

So there's actually more than enough humans remaining to repopulate naturally. But the use of Protoculture cloning technology helps the human population grow far, far more quickly.

2. I doubt Macross City was deserted, just very empty. The 30th Anniversary ceremony combined with the most popular music idol in the Galaxy is likely what lead to the empty feeling of the city. Most everyone would be at the ceremony/concert. And it was early morning. I remember the early Sunday mornings in my old home city of Calgary (approx 1 million pop). The downtown core looked like a ghost town, no pun intended

Don't for get there was also the barren wasteland were Guld and Isamu were trash talking. Hint: "Guns CDV"

AND also the part just before Guld is about to unload an Itano Circus on Isamu and the Instrumental Music, DOGFIGHT is about to end. You could actually see a barren wasteland there as well.

PLUS....take a look at these:

http://i27.tinypic.com/vsjhg6.jpg & http://xs227.xs.to/xs227/08206/vlcsnap-2598680928.jpg

Notice the barren wasteland as well. Posted this on the technology thread.

SO in general there are large portions of the Earth that are not reclaimed or inhabited.

Edited May 20, 2008 by grss1982

[Gubaba]

Okay Thor, sounds good me. Verily

Forsooth, Bro.

[Morpheus]

2012

September

* Megaroad-01 launches as [part of] the first long-distance colonization fleet. Construction of mass-produced super-long-distance colonization ships Megaroad-02 and -03 based on the Megaroad. Hereafter, one or two super-long-distance colonization ships are constructed yearly

2030

September

* The space launch of the first New Macross class super-massive colonization battleship. This colonization fleet's population numbers in the proportions of 1 million people.

Sir, we have launched to many immigration fleet, Earth population are down to those living in Macross City.

[RichterX]

interesting, I always thought that the only survivors were the 50,000 plus in the Macross and those in the Lunar Base that only made like a couple thousand more.

Edited May 20, 2008 by RichterX

[Bill C.]

I'm admittedly fuzzy on all this, but I'm assuming this is where the word "miclone" pops up...?

[JB0]

I'm admittedly fuzzy on all this, but I'm assuming this is where the word "miclone" pops up...?

Nope.

Miclone is a zentradi term. It refers to zentradi which have been made smaller through the micloning process.

It's also used to refer to races of "little people" when they aren't being mistaken for the protoculture.

[Sulendil Ang]

Well I browse through some mecha forum (MAHQ's forum, to be precise), I found out a question by a member which looks interesting to me. I also quite curious about the question itself. here's the question:

Okay, so in some of the latest episodes of Macross Frontier, space folds and the tech behind it were featured pretty prominently and given some air time in explaining some of their limitations, from accuracy of jumps over range to fold dislocation. But none of this explains to me why, in the universe of Macross, we would ever send out colonization fleets that didn't travel in super dimensional space all of the time, nor have I been able to find a canon/reasonable explanation elsewhere. Granted, I could be missing something entirely, but so far, I've got nothing. So basically, I'm just asking if anyone has heard such information. It just seems nonsensical to have such a colonization fleet. Even if 20+ light year jumps are inaccurate, it would be relatively simple to just make short hops. Or is this what the fleets are doing? It's just that it appears, every time we see them, that they are in normal space.

Hope you guys can answer that question.

[Duke Togo]

Well, they are essentially scouting for suitable planets.

[Mr March]

That's basically all there is to it. You can't scout or scan for habitable planets in fold space. Surveying for possible worlds and mapping of star systems must be done in real space. These activities would take up the majority of the fleets time.

Then of course, there's also the limitations/laws that govern fold travel, to which we the audience are not privy. It's likely the colonization fleets could not spend most of their time in super dimension space because of power requirements, effects upon the crew, navigation concerns, et cetera. In fact, it's only in Macross Frontier that we are actually starting to learn a bit more about fold space than we have before. It's just something we've largely taken for granted up until now, but like any technology, there's much more to space folding than what we've come to accept because we didn't have any choice.

[Morpheus]

There also fold-sickness related problem perhaps. In MF deculture edition, when Sheryl is in fold space, we can see her body glowing and something is separating from her (her soul?), this maybe related somehow.

In any case, another problem with those colony fleet is the probability encountering with the Kyoudai Sen (Aka Zentraedi brotherhood ) who are still roaming the galaxy. You don't want to led 10 million people directly into a Bodol class mobile fortress with its escort fleet don't you?

[dreamweaver13]

hmm... well this got me thinking. since ranka is a survivor of the massacred research fleet, and if that fleet had something to do with the supredimension crystal, maybe a piece of this crystal could have accidentally shot into ranka during the battle? something like shrapnel getting into her body, in this case near her stomach. thus, the glow coinciding with the glowing earring.

[Gubaba]

There also fold-sickness related problem perhaps. In MF deculture edition, when Sheryl is in fold space, we can see her body glowing and something is separating from her (her soul?), this maybe related somehow.

I think that was just a Space Battleship Yamato reference...

[JB0]

In any case, another problem with those colony fleet is the probability encountering with the Kyoudai Sen (Aka Zentraedi brotherhood ) who are still roaming the galaxy. You don't want to led 10 million people directly into a Bodol class mobile fortress with its escort fleet don't you?

It's always a possibility, but it's so close to zero it doesn't really matter.

Space is almost incomprehensibly huge.

Assuming it's canon, Fleet of the Strongest Women represents, statistically speaking, the ONLY chance encounter with a zentradi fleet they'll have for a few centuries.

[Zinjo]

It's always a possibility, but it's so close to zero it doesn't really matter.

Space is almost incomprehensibly huge.

Assuming it's canon, Fleet of the Strongest Women represents, statistically speaking, the ONLY chance encounter with a zentradi fleet they'll have for a few centuries.

Maybe. The PC republic stretched across the galaxy and they had an Army as large. What was it in Bodolza's fleet 5 million ships?

That is only a fraction of the ships needed to police a galactic republic..

[JB0]

Maybe. The PC republic stretched across the galaxy and they had an Army as large. What was it in Bodolza's fleet 5 million ships?

That is only a fraction of the ships needed to police a galactic republic..

There's supposed to be some 2 thousand Bodol-style fleets. There's possibly 400 billion stars in the Milky Way. This ignores interstellar space, which increases the volume that needs to be monitored massively.

And police work is easy. You KNOW where you're looking.

Since no one ever showed up to clean up Bodolzaa's mess, we can assume he didn't tell the others what was going on. The zentradi high command, or whatever, doesn't even know anyone's alive this far out in the middle of nowhere. So odds are pretty good that nobody's looking for a human colony fleet.

Even if they WERE looking... they knew what heading the ASS-1 left on and it STILL took them a decade to find it.

With nothing more to go on than "Humans are in space. They suck." any encounters will be random chance.

"Needle in a haystack" doesn't even begin to cover the difficulty of finding something by pure chance.

[d3v]

There's supposed to be some 2 thousand Bodol-style fleets. There's possibly 400 billion stars in the Milky Way. This ignores interstellar space, which increases the volume that needs to be monitored massively.

And police work is easy. You KNOW where you're looking.

Since no one ever showed up to clean up Bodolzaa's mess, we can assume he didn't tell the others what was going on. The zentradi high command, or whatever, doesn't even know anyone's alive this far out in the middle of nowhere. So odds are pretty good that nobody's looking for a human colony fleet.

Even if they WERE looking... they knew what heading the ASS-1 left on and it STILL took them a decade to find it.

With nothing more to go on than "Humans are in space. They suck." any encounters will be random chance.

"Needle in a haystack" doesn't even begin to cover the difficulty of finding something by pure chance.

Makes you wonder though, how much territory have the Macross fleets actually covered and colonized?

[tankf77]

Makes you wonder though, how much territory have the Macross fleets actually covered and colonized?

Well, even for a galaxy, one has to assume it is really really large!

[dreamweaver13]

Makes you wonder though, how much territory have the Macross fleets actually covered and colonized?

considering that they haven't even been able to get to the center of the milky way yet, i'm guessing 0.0000000001% of space? or to be fair about it, maybe 5% of the milky way? just a wild guess.

[Sulendil Ang]

considering that they haven't even been able to get to the center of the milky way yet, i'm guessing 0.0000000001% of space? or to be fair about it, maybe 5% of the milky way? just a wild guess.

Nay, definitely not even close to 5%. There are about 200 to 400 billion stars in Milky Way galaxy, and although we didn't know how many planets has been colonized, but even my most optimum guess will be around 1000 star systems, which is 0.0000005% to 0.00000025% of our galaxy.

Remember kids, space is a very big place.

Edited May 23, 2008 by Sulendil Ang

[Zinjo]

The best way I can see the PC effectively patrolling their galaxy is to segment it into 2000 "slivers" and allowing the various fleets to patrol their segments.

I'd expect Bodolza didn't commit all of his ships on the assault on Earth and possibly kept a million in reserve at the galactic core.

Now when one considers that the Earth is near the outer rim, it would have less of a chance of seeing another fleet attack, however the closer the colony fleets get to the core the chances of an encounter increases substantially since the core has the greatest density of stars and likely the greatest density of ships on patrol.

The Mac 7 fleet found this and no doubt the Frontier and Galaxy fleets will have to deal with it as well the closer they get to the core.

The same would be the case as fleets spread laterally into possible "segments" controlled by other fleets. If the Zentreadi fleet deployment is indeed like this one, the benefit humanity would have is that the Zentreadi could provide where he segment boundaries were to avoid unecessary contacts.

[JB0]

The best way I can see the PC effectively patrolling their galaxy is to segment it into 2000 "slivers" and allowing the various fleets to patrol their segments.

Or rely on reports(or lack thereof) from local law enforcement to determine where to send the zentradi.

Actually, a combination of approaches makes a lot of sense.

Each megafleet has it's own sector, and each sector is subdivided into hundreds or thousands of smaller units, with splinter fleets making regular patrols through given subsectors. And in the old days, before the empire collapsed, reports across the existing communications network would help them find hot spots between patrols.

But by the time of Macross, things would be a lot less organized. The protoculture empire is gone. Most of it's people are dead, and the survivors are isolated in the middle of nowhere, so to speak. Most of them are probably colonies established after the communication network broke down, and there's no records of their existence anywhere.

The remnants of the Supervision Army are the zentradi's primary enemy, and they're engaging in the ultimate guerrilla war. Most likely hiding in uninhabitable systems or interstellar space(maybe even the voids between the galactic arms), striking at the zentradi's known waypoints and travel routes.

Flushing them out would be the zentradi's primary concern. The regular patrols would be small, and dedicated more to ensuring the dead stars stayed dead than anything else.

I'd expect Bodolza didn't commit all of his ships on the assault on Earth and possibly kept a million in reserve at the galactic core.

A lot of what he DID bring wasn't destroyed. When they smashed his flagship, everyone still alive folded off to who knows where.

...

Hmmm. I wonder how much the other ships knew about what was going on. With large portions of zentradi history being classified, they can't just up and say "We found a protoculture settlement and we'er sterilizing it so they don't corrupt our pure warrior badassitude."

Either way, with all the runaways, I think I was wrong when I said the zentradi don't know anyone's there. Unless the fold coordinates were deleted immediately after departing the Sol system, they know SOMETHING is there.

...

Of course, they might all be viewed as culturally contaminated by high command, in which case every last escapee may've been executed as soon as the first debriefings came in.

Or the bosses just went "Oooookay.... we can't afford to replace any more motherships, so let's just hope we never run into these guys again."

There's just not enough information about the zentradi and supervision army.

Now when one considers that the Earth is near the outer rim, it would have less of a chance of seeing another fleet attack, however the closer the colony fleets get to the core the chances of an encounter increases substantially since the core has the greatest density of stars and likely the greatest density of ships on patrol.

The Mac 7 fleet found this and no doubt the Frontier and Galaxy fleets will have to deal with it as well the closer they get to the core.

Seven didn't run into a patrol, though.

They ran head-on into a superfleet's home base. I can't imagine the motherships are moved around for routine patrols.

And the patrols weren't good enough in some serious respects. Nobody noticed the multiple visits to Varauta by both the humans and Varuatian army. Despite the planet being a VERY important tactical location.

Unless the zentradi intentionally stay away from that part of the galaxy to hide the sealed Protodeviln from the Supervision Army remnants(And consequently missed all the fun when the darn pesky humans let 'em out again. Just think how much worse Operation Stargazer COULD have gone!).

The same would be the case as fleets spread laterally into possible "segments" controlled by other fleets. If the Zentreadi fleet deployment is indeed like this one, the benefit humanity would have is that the Zentreadi could provide where he segment boundaries were to avoid unnecessary contacts.

Of course, with the fall of the Bodol fleet, the segments would need redrawing. So trusting the old maps could be dangerous.

But it could easily be centuries, even millenia, before they get everything redrawn and redeployed. The size of their bureaucracy... I can't even imagine it.

Anyways.... back to the newb questions!

[Sulendil Ang]

Let's start with mine!

Who currently owns the UN Kites symbols?

[Gubaba]

Let's start with mine!

Who currently owns the UN Kites symbols?

UN Spacy, of course!

(Is this a trick question...?)

(Actually, Big West owns them, but Harmony Gold might claim to own them, as well.)

[Sulendil Ang]

(Is this a trick question...?)

Nay, I'm just concern about the legal issue surrounding the Kite.

[Gubaba]

The legal issues are...difficult, because nobody's talking but everybody seems to have a different story. Big West owns the designs, Tatsunoko owns the actual footage, and Harmony Gold DEFINITELY owns the "Macross" name in America, but also claims to own "everything related to Robotech." Which may or may not include Plus, 7, Zero, Frontier, you name it.

Of course, if challenged, they'd probably lose, but no one's challenged them yet...

[VFTF1]

I own the Kite, Robotech, Kawamorii and your soooooulll

VFTF1

[taksraven]

I think that was just a Space Battleship Yamato reference...

I think thats more likely, but I liked it better when the Space Warp made Nova's clothes disappear.

Taksraven

[JB0]

I own the Kite, Robotech, Kawamorii and your soooooulll

But I own VFTF1, and am redistributing souls.

Though he just kinda threw them all in a big pile, so I can't guarantee you'll get YOUR soul back. But you'll have SOMEONE'S soul.

[Sulendil Ang]

Another one: how many exit ports for micro-missiles exist on YF-21? I only saw four on the central dorsal section, 4 (?) at the forward section, and see none on the sides of engine nacelles, which both Macross Mecha Manual and Macross Compedium seems to indicate there is.