Newbie Questions on Macross

[VF5SS]

Macross Zero does happen after Rainy Night. The VF-1 was ready to go into production the year Macross Zero takes place so all of the testing is already done. Roy is such a badass with the VF-0 because he had been with the VF-X program for so long. That's probably why he was assigned to pilot the first variable fighters in combat. According to the official chronology, the VF-X had finished testing in November of 2007 where as the Mayan conflict took place in July of 2008.

[dreamweaver13]

Macross Zero does happen after Rainy Night. The VF-1 was ready to go into production the year Macross Zero takes place so all of the testing is already done. Roy is such a badass with the VF-0 because he had been with the VF-X program for so long. That's probably why he was assigned to pilot the first variable fighters in combat. According to the official chronology, the VF-X had finished testing in November of 2007 where as the Mayan conflict took place in July of 2008.

are you sure about this? i was pretty sure mac0 happened before Rainy Night. Well,at least the part where he waits in the rain outside claudia's apartment. The valk in macross zero is a prototype. hence its designation as VF-0. the mech in rainy night is VF-1, the first actual battle model. think evangelion 00 and eva 01. and it was made clear that the engine used in the VF-0 was the ones used on normal fighters (nuclear?), and they have yet to install whatever energy system is installed in VF1.

this is the way i figured it happened:

1. First part of rainy night (when he met Claudia).

2. Then he left. thus the events of macross 0,

3. And then the latter part of rainy night (when he is assigned to the south ataria island and meets claudia again).

well then, why was he scared even after piloting the vf-0 like a bad ass? well, we have to consider some possibilities:

1. he is always afraid whenever he gets into the cockpit. he pretty much admitted this to claudia. sure he didn't show any of that fear during mac0. but that's the point. his bravado doesn't allow him to show this fear to anyone. claudia was the sole exception.

2. VF-1 is very different from VF-0. Sure, when we watched mac0, we thought that the performance of VF-0 was amazing. but we have to consider, since the VF-1 uses an entirely different engine, and is the actual battle-ready model, we have to assume that the performance capabilities and speed of the VF-1 far surpasses the VF-0. (of course that's hard to see considering the old animation style of the VF-1). and with this additional speed and power comes greater stress on the pilot, and a bigger chance of a wipe-out.

Edited May 19, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[dreamweaver13]

If I recall, the "TV series is real" point was only for purposes of constructing a timeline, and the "real" Space War 1 is supposed to be somewhere in between the two.

I probably wasn't paying enough attention, but I don't see where Zero fails to fit, chronologically.

Now, I DO see some problems, though.

Focker has short hair, Focker has no booze, and Focker fails miserably at picking up a chick.

The obvious conclusion is that the Roy Focker in Zero isn't OUR Focker, but someone else with the same name.

likewise, i don't think that there were any inconsistencies or continuity problems between Mac0 and SDFM. nothing in SDFM would contradict that the events in mac0 could have taken place, from what i remember.

on the other hand, maybe gubaba is pointing out that mac0 is more in jive with DYRL when it comes to the protoculture aspect. the birdman underwater is more in the spirit of the underwater city in DYRL. but again i say, while it might fit better with DYRL, mac0 doesn't necessarily run counter to the events that unfolded in SDFM. But hey, i've only seen mac0 twice. if i missed a major inconsistency, feel free to point it out.

Edited May 19, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[VFTF1]

I was also under the same impression as Dreamweaver

as for Agent One - I checked out your link guBBaba, but all I saw there was hot-man muscles worshiping other hot-man muscles.... nothing about Mac 7

I was so looking forward to some scandalous stuff

VFTF1

[VF5SS]

Sorry dreamweaver, but you're incorrect. Here's the official chronology from the Macross Compendium

2007

From Macross Compendium

Jump to: navigation, search

January 20

* Conclusion of U.N. Wars.

February

* The VF-X nontransformable flight test vehicle as well as the VF-X1 prototype variable fighter begins first flight tests.

* Rollout of MBR-04-Mk I.

June

* Space tests of the VF-X1 begins.

November

* Decision made to formally adopt the VF-X1. VF-1 series mass production [scheduled to] begin.

So the VF-1 was in testing from February of 2007 all the way until November. So Rainy Night could have taken place within that year. Here's the timeline for 2008.

2008

From Macross Compendium

Jump to: navigation, search

February

* An alien relic is discovered and recovered from the bottom of the ocean near the island of Mayan. (Macross History version 2008)

Macross Zero

July

* The Mayan Conflict breaks out between the U.N. Forces aircraft carrier Asuka and Anti-U.N. Alliance Forces. (Macross History version 2008)

* The U.N. government and Anti-U.N. forces secretly deploy the VF-0 and SV-51 respectively while disputing over a recently discovered phenomenon on the island of Mayan in the South Pacific Ocean. (The events are kept secret for at least five decades.)

* The Bird Man that was the alien relic awakens and goes out of control. (Macross History version 2008)

* Space carrier ARMD I commissioned.

August

* VF-1 series [scheduled to] begin deployment for actual combat. (However, usage is to have been limited to Fighter mode only.)

September

* After the Bird Man Incident, the nations who joined the Anti-U.N. Alliance announce their withdrawal. (Macross History version 2008)

* Rollout of the first HWR-00 series model.

November

* The mass production of the all-regime variable fighter VF-1 series begins.

November 23

* Rollout of the first trial production VF-1A variable fighter.

November 29

* Maiden flight of the first trial production VF-1A variable fighter.

So here's the proof that Macross Zero happens after Rainy Night. I know the name "VF-0" is somewhat counter intuitive, but they weren't about to call it VF-2, and you can't call it VF-1.5 and VF-3 was already taken. And they couldn't call the OVA Macross Zero without a zero in it somewhere.

Edited May 19, 2008 by VF5SS

[Duke Togo]

I was also under the same impression as Dreamweaver

as for Agent One - I checked out your link guBBaba, but all I saw there was hot-man muscles worshiping other hot-man muscles.... nothing about Mac 7

I was so looking forward to some scandalous stuff

VFTF1

Agent One and Macross 7

FREE AGENT ONE AND RESTORE CULTURE!

Edited May 19, 2008 by Duke Togo

[Mr March]

I know that this is probably a dumb question but I was wondering if it was possible to get a simple answer to this?

Taksraven

Seems I've been beaten to the punch. but I'll answer anyway. Originally, DYRL? as an anime production was simply an "alternate retelling" of Space War I. You could take the SDF Macross interpretation or the DYRL interpretation of the events in the Macross universe and Kawamori wouldn't bother you When Macross 7 came along, DYRL was retconned to some extent as a "movie within the fictional Macross universe". Of course, everyone then wondered what the heck that meant in the face of obvious incongruent aspects of continuity, like the DYRL version of Exedol appearing in the "real world" of Macross 7 and or DYRL versions of Zentradi Nousjadeul-Ger battle suits appearing in Macross Plus.

So what does all this mean? Basically, Kawamori and Co. will take from whatever version of Macross they prefer and use it in Macross sequels in spite of any continuity issues they create. IMO, that's the only official, canon answer that anyone can provide. And as we've seen in the various Macross sequels, it's clear Kawamori loves the DYRL versions the most, which is why such designs keep appearing throughout the sequels. That's pretty much all there is to it.

[VFTF1]

Agent One and Macross 7

FREE AGENT ONE AND RESTORE CULTURE!

Well - if I may be allowed to comment on this historical event from the past; as I noted to someone else who was gracious enough to point me in the right direction - I personally would have advocated making him... LISTEN TO MY SONG!! :)

Too bad there's no way to rig a website in such a manner that the only way to log on is to listen to Mylene sing "My Friend"... repeatedly for an hour

But he was fun and flamboyant... from the looks of it... though I guess it's not my say

Anyways - as to that Macross Zero chronology with DYRL/SDF M ... drat! I guess I have to correct my thinking then - and alter the vastly complex psychological picture I have developed of Roy.

My life is ruined!

VFTF1

[azrael]

So what does all this mean? Basically, Kawamori and Co. will take from whatever version of Macross they prefer and use it in Macross sequels in spite of any continuity issues they create. IMO, that's the only official, canon answer that anyone can provide. And as we've seen in the various Macross sequels, it's clear Kawamori loves the DYRL versions the most, which is why such designs keep appearing throughout the sequels. That's pretty much all there is to it.

The best way to look at the animation in comparison to the timeline is to view it as a historical perspective. Is what happened in the animation "exactly" what happened in real life? Well, that's up to interpretation. It's like watching a WWII or Vietnam drama film. The events are close but the finer details are questionable.

IIRC, in MD7, someone says to Basara that it was Basara's efforts in Sound Force that defeated the Protodevlin. Basara's reply was he didn't defeat anybody. And that historical note also came up in M7 concerning how Max met Millia in the episode where they are doing a DYRL? remake.

[wolfx]

I pretty much just treat DYRL? as the official canon now since it makes more sense when connecting it with future shows like M7 , Plus and now Frontier since designs, names, and words from DYRL are more often used.

And about the movie within M7, it just happen to be named the same. Think of it as a "reference".

[Zinjo]

The way I reconcile the lot is simply that SDFM is a tv series chronicle of the events of SW1 and DYRL is a film of the same events in the universe. I tend to agree that those shows are not taken as absolute canon by the anime production teams (possibly because they don't actually own that animation outright anymore). Its almost as if they've shifted their focus from the productions to the Nue continuity timelines and dance within those areas, adjusting whatever doesn't fit with the current production.

[Gubaba]

I pretty much just treat DYRL? as the official canon now since it makes more sense when connecting it with future shows like M7 , Plus and now Frontier since designs, names, and words from DYRL are more often used.

And about the movie within M7, it just happen to be named the same. Think of it as a "reference".

Well again, using DYRL as canon works up to a point...in M7, where did Miria get her red VF-1J? Why does she have a TV-style flightsuit? Why do the three old guys in the Destroid Monster have TV-style uniforms?

I think it's best not to worry about which one is "true."

"Repeat to yourself, 'It's just a show,

I should probably just relax.'"

Edited May 19, 2008 by Gubaba

[MisaForever]

Well again, iusing DYRL as conon works up to a point...in M7, where did Miria get her red VF-1J? Why does she have a TV-style flightsuit? Why to the three old guys in the Destroid Monster have TV-style uniforms?

You know, Nanase would NEVER date someone who spells like you do. (see above)

[wolfx]

Well again, iusing DYRL as conon works up to a point...in M7, where did Miria get her red VF-1J? Why does she have a TV-style flightsuit? Why to the three old guys in the Destroid Monster have TV-style uniforms?

I think it's best not to worry about which one is "true."

"Repeat to yourself, 'It's just a show,

I should probably just relax.'"

While not shown in DYRL? and is more of a tribute to SDFM?, it can easily be worked into canon if they wanted to.

She gets them after joining the UN Spacy. The TV-style flightsuit is not even her own. Its Hikaru's scheme. Thus i think more for tribute purposes than for fan-debate.

Destroid pilots get TV-styled clothes. ( i don't know how destroid pilots supposed to dress btw)

[Gubaba]

You know, Nanase would NEVER date someone who spells like you do. (see above)

Crap, I've been pwned!

And I'm usually so careful, too...

[Nerroth]

Sicne the other thread was locked - and, on reflection, I should have posted here anyway - I'll try again:

As I said elsewhere, my introduction to the Macross setting is mainly via Frontier, and these questions are posted (or re-posted) because I couldn't find the exact answers elsewhere, so please bear with me.

By the time of Frontier, is Earth now (or still) completely uninhabitable, or is it in a bad strategic location compared to any large interstellar neighbours, or are there still some humans who remain on or around Earth - who might be in contact with the colony fleets - and has the Sol system been completely evacuated at this stage, or are there colonies on Mars, Europa or any other bodies within the system?

Even if most of humanity is sailing around the galaxy in large colony fleets, there would have been a need for some form of advanced logistical network in Sol for these ships to be built, whether on or around Earth itself, or at one or more of the other planets or moons in the Sol system.

Plus, if there are such large-scale production facilities, would there not be some form of garrison to protect them?

Also, do the Terran fleets have some form of FTL comm net, or do they have to rely on message boats and foldspace-drive-equipped runners to transfer information from fleet to fleet, or to and from any colony worlds established by the Terran diaspora?

And one last question - aside from the Terrans, Zentraedi (of whichever known shade) and Vajra, are there any other known interstellar factions, races or civilisations in the setting - and can it be assumed that it's a big enough galaxy for there to be a lot of potential space for such powers to exist, but are yet to be contacted?

[Duke Togo]

By the time of Frontier, is Earth now (or still) completely uninhabitable...

No, not at all.

[Morpheus]

By the time of Frontier, is Earth now (or still) completely uninhabitable, or is it in a bad strategic location compared to any large interstellar neighbours, or are there still some humans who remain on or around Earth - who might be in contact with the colony fleets - and has the Sol system been completely evacuated at this stage, or are there colonies on Mars, Europa or any other bodies within the system?

Even if most of humanity is sailing around the galaxy in large colony fleets, there would have been a need for some form of advanced logistical network in Sol for these ships to be built, whether on or around Earth itself, or at one or more of the other planets or moons in the Sol system.

Plus, if there are such large-scale production facilities, would there not be some form of garrison to protect them?

Earth has been repopulated via mass cloning, it have a titanic factory satellite orbiting which produces thousands of ships, and it is protected with thousands of ships (Macross Plus).

[azrael]

By the time of Frontier, is Earth now (or still) completely uninhabitable, or is it in a bad strategic location compared to any large interstellar neighbours, or are there still some humans who remain on or around Earth - who might be in contact with the colony fleets - and has the Sol system been completely evacuated at this stage, or are there colonies on Mars, Europa or any other bodies within the system?

Earth is alive and kicking. The idea behind the colonization project was to not keep all the eggs in 1 basket. During Space War I, the Zentradi nearly wiped out all of humanity. To be sure that something like that would never happen again, it was decided to spread out amongst the stars and colonize worlds so that humanity would never die out. This is mentioned in SDFM.

Even if most of humanity is sailing around the galaxy in large colony fleets, there would have been a need for some form of advanced logistical network in Sol for these ships to be built, whether on or around Earth itself, or at one or more of the other planets or moons in the Sol system.

There are shipyards in and above Earth (as well as in the Sol System) as well as the Factory Satellite (see SDFM).

Plus, if there are such large-scale production facilities, would there not be some form of garrison to protect them?

Of course. You should see the defense network around Earth (M+).

Also, do the Terran fleets have some form of FTL comm net, or do they have to rely on message boats and foldspace-drive-equipped runners to transfer information from fleet to fleet, or to and from any colony worlds established by the Terran diaspora?

The Galaxy Network (See M7).

And one last question - aside from the Terrans, Zentraedi (of whichever known shade) and Vajra, are there any other known interstellar factions, races or civilisations in the setting - and can it be assumed that it's a big enough galaxy for there to be a lot of potential space for such powers to exist, but are yet to be contacted?

Zolans, Protodevlin, etc. We've only had 3 series that covered new and strange lifeforms.

Your answers and many more can be found by watching the previous series.

[Holocause]

If Macross Plus is to go by, then Earth is all well and good and has been repopulated.

The whole purpose of the massive colonization fleets is for propagation of the (human) species and to avoid a repeat of the tradgedy that is Space War One whereby which the human race was almost wiped out of existence save for a few survivors on earth and on SDF-1. Space War One taught the humans of the time that should earth ever come under attack again and perhaps vaporized, the human race would continue to exist now that they have spread out to the far reaches of the galaxy.

[Beltane70]

There were also survivors on the Moon, as it was untouched by the Zentraedi.

[Mr March]

I recall several members noting in the past that even by 2040, Earth is still not fully recovered as a whole (and likely never will be). There are huge expanses of land that are just massive blasted craters which can be seen from orbit (these backgrounds are also featured in the anime itself). There's also several landscapes drawn up for Macross Plus included in the book This Is Animation The Select Macross Plus Movie Edition showing large parts of Earth as barren and crated-filled. There is no doubt that the Earth has been repopulated to a degree, but it's also clear that it's no where near as populated as it once was and most of the landscape hasn't been restored.

I created a new entry for the Macropedia that discusses the Galaxy Network, so I'll post it here to answer the question:

Galaxy Network (Galaxy Network Signal)

A trans-galaxy communication network utilized by the United Nations Government (UNG). Built upon satellites and relays equipped with fold communication systems, the Galaxy Network Signal allows all the colony planets of the UN to remain in real-time contact with each other. The many colonization fleets of the UNG also use the galaxy network signal to remain in contact, often using specialized communication ships disguised as resort vessels (such as the Hollywood Amusement Ship attached to the 37th long-distance colonization fleet lead by the Macross 7).

If you're looking for information on the Factory Satellite, which is initially very significant in the massive post-war rebuilding of the UN Spacy fleets, I have an entry for it on my website found by selecting this link.

[stray]

Speaking of the Earth, are there any actual numbers anywhere of people who survived Space War 1? Population on the SDF-1 Macross was close to ~50k civilian, plus handfuls of survivors on Earth if you believe the TV version of events... There would have to have been at least a few million for repopulation to come as far as it has (not to mention filling out colonization ships with millions of people).

Kind of splitting hairs, but I'm definitely curious.

[Gubaba]

Speaking of the Earth, are there any actual numbers anywhere of people who survived Space War 1? Population on the SDF-1 Macross was close to ~50k civilian, plus handfuls of survivors on Earth if you believe the TV version of events... There would have to have been at least a few million for repopulation to come as far as it has (not to mention filling out colonization ships with millions of people).

Kind of splitting hairs, but I'm definitely curious.

I think there's a number quoted in the Macross Compendium, but I don't remember how many.

Bear in mind though, that the population was largely rebuilt through cloning, so it didn't really matter if there were enough survivors to sustain viability...just as long as there were enough to maintain some level of diversity.

[dreamweaver13]

Sorry dreamweaver, but you're incorrect. Here's the official chronology from the Macross Compendium

2007

From Macross Compendium

Jump to: navigation, search

January 20

* Conclusion of U.N. Wars.

February

* The VF-X nontransformable flight test vehicle as well as the VF-X1 prototype variable fighter begins first flight tests.

* Rollout of MBR-04-Mk I.

June

* Space tests of the VF-X1 begins.

November

* Decision made to formally adopt the VF-X1. VF-1 series mass production [scheduled to] begin.

So the VF-1 was in testing from February of 2007 all the way until November. So Rainy Night could have taken place within that year. Here's the timeline for 2008.

2008

From Macross Compendium

Jump to: navigation, search

February

* An alien relic is discovered and recovered from the bottom of the ocean near the island of Mayan. (Macross History version 2008)

Macross Zero

July

* The Mayan Conflict breaks out between the U.N. Forces aircraft carrier Asuka and Anti-U.N. Alliance Forces. (Macross History version 2008)

* The U.N. government and Anti-U.N. forces secretly deploy the VF-0 and SV-51 respectively while disputing over a recently discovered phenomenon on the island of Mayan in the South Pacific Ocean. (The events are kept secret for at least five decades.)

* The Bird Man that was the alien relic awakens and goes out of control. (Macross History version 2008)

* Space carrier ARMD I commissioned.

August

* VF-1 series [scheduled to] begin deployment for actual combat. (However, usage is to have been limited to Fighter mode only.)

September

* After the Bird Man Incident, the nations who joined the Anti-U.N. Alliance announce their withdrawal. (Macross History version 2008)

* Rollout of the first HWR-00 series model.

November

* The mass production of the all-regime variable fighter VF-1 series begins.

November 23

* Rollout of the first trial production VF-1A variable fighter.

November 29

* Maiden flight of the first trial production VF-1A variable fighter.

So here's the proof that Macross Zero happens after Rainy Night. I know the name "VF-0" is somewhat counter intuitive, but they weren't about to call it VF-2, and you can't call it VF-1.5 and VF-3 was already taken. And they couldn't call the OVA Macross Zero without a zero in it somewhere.

i understand what you're saying. but i don't see anything in the chronology that would make it impossible for rainy night to have happened after the events of mac0. When you said that the VF-1 was already being developed as early as 2007, you also have to consider this entry:

November (2007)

* Decision made to formally adopt the VF-X1. VF-1 series mass production [scheduled to] begin.

Therefore, the VF-1 was not yet even being produced as of nov 2007. So, it's possible that the events of rainy night happened on November 2008, as you quoted:

November

* The mass production of the all-regime variable fighter VF-1 series begins.

November 23

* Rollout of the first trial production VF-1A variable fighter.

What we could have seen in the rainy night episode was focker looking at the VF1 while they were being mass produced. or their roll-out for the first trial production. This was already after the bird man incident.

So the chronology is not actually "proof" for either my view or your view of the sequence of events. i could be wrong. but storywise, it just makes more sense to me if mac0 happened in between the 2 parts of rainy night. otherwise, the character development is all disjointed.

[Gubaba]

Crap, I really didn't mean to open this can of worms again...Sorry, folks.

[Mr March]

Adding up survivors at the Apollo Base on the moon, survivors from the UN Spacy fleet, survivors in the Grand Cannon facilities, the SDF-1 and other small space outposts probably adds up to at least a million human survivors. The Macross Compendium states the following:

March

Conclusion of Space [stellar] War I. Earth atmospheric purification operation begins. A total of several hundred thousand [to approximately one million] survivors confirmed in the Grand Cannons [i,] III and V, the Lunar surface's Apollo Base, and the space colony clusters [bunches].

So there's actually more than enough humans remaining to repopulate naturally. But the use of Protoculture cloning technology helps the human population grow far, far more quickly.

[dreamweaver13]

I recall several members noting in the past that even by 2040, Earth is still not fully recovered as a whole (and likely never will be). There are huge expanses of land that are just massive blasted craters which can be seen from orbit (these backgrounds are also featured in the anime itself). There's also several landscapes drawn up for Macross Plus included in the book This Is Animation The Select Macross Plus Movie Edition showing large parts of Earth as barren and crated-filled. There is no doubt that the Earth has been repopulated to a degree, but it's also clear that it's no where near as populated as it once was and most of the landscape hasn't been restored.

I created a new entry for the Macropedia that discusses the Galaxy Network, so I'll post it here to answer the question:

Galaxy Network (Galaxy Network Signal)

A trans-galaxy communication network utilized by the United Nations Government (UNG). Built upon satellites and relays equipped with fold communication systems, the Galaxy Network Signal allows all the colony planets of the UN to remain in real-time contact with each other. The many colonization fleets of the UNG also use the galaxy network signal to remain in contact, often using specialized communication ships disguised as resort vessels (such as the Hollywood Amusement Ship attached to the 37th long-distance colonization fleet lead by the Macross 7).

If you're looking for information on the Factory Satellite, which is initially very significant in the massive post-war rebuilding of the UN Spacy fleets, I have an entry for it on my website found by selecting this link.

Yup, its most likely. earth sure looks populated from the scenes in macr+, but that could be only macross city. perhaps some other cities as well. but even with cloning, i don't think the entire earth could be populated in a span of 50 years.

hmmm... but this talk on population actually brought up 2 questions in my mind:

1. If we take SDFM as the canon (and DYRL as merely the movie within the series) did the bodolza attack eradicate the entire human race, or were there actually other survivors (other than misa, of course). I just want to know if the pockets of civilization / cities shown in the aftermath in SDFM were actual earth survivors, or just a mix of macross survivors, clones and zentraedi?

2. In the dogfight between isamu and guld in a city... was that an actual inhabited city? or a deserted one. i always get the impression that it's deserted (looked so dead). but the buildings are all intact and actually look new. if it's deserted, could it be a city in development, where clones and humans would later be transferred? just wondering.

[Morpheus]

2. In the dogfight between isamu and guld in a city... was that an actual inhabited city? or a deserted one. i always get the impression that it's deserted (looked so dead). but the buildings are all intact and actually look new. if it's deserted, could it be a city in development, where clones and humans would later be transferred? just wondering.

Its not deserted, the population just in trance after being hypnotized by Sharon Apple song (Literally, Sharon have enslaved the entire Earth population at that time including the poor souls on the defense fleet.

[Gubaba]

Its not deserted, the population just in trance after being hypnotized by Sharon Apple song (Literally, Sharon have enslaved the entire Earth population at that time including the poor souls on the defense fleet.

After watching that scene countless times, I finallycame to the conclusion that it WAS a deserted city, and it had to have been VERY far from where the Macross was resting.

[Duke Togo]

Its not deserted, the population just in trance after being hypnotized by Sharon Apple song (Literally, Sharon have enslaved the entire Earth population at that time including the poor souls on the defense fleet.

QFT

[Gubaba]

QFT

Really? Everyone on earth? How do you know it was so widespread...?

(Not saying you're wrong...just wondering...)

[Duke Togo]

Really? Everyone on earth? How do you know it was so widespread...?

(Not saying you're wrong...just wondering...)

Well, not everyone, just everyone who was watching.

[Gubaba]

Okay, that, I can believe.

(Still doesn't explain why no one was out on the street in the city Guld and Isamu trashed, though...surely SOMEONE must have been on his way to the market because they ran out dip or something...)

[Mr March]

Yup, its most likely. earth sure looks populated from the scenes in macr+, but that could be only macross city. perhaps some other cities as well. but even with cloning, i don't think the entire earth could be populated in a span of 50 years.

hmmm... but this talk on population actually brought up 2 questions in my mind:

1. If we take SDFM as the canon (and DYRL as merely the movie within the series) did the bodolza attack eradicate the entire human race, or were there actually other survivors (other than misa, of course). I just want to know if the pockets of civilization / cities shown in the aftermath in SDFM were actual earth survivors, or just a mix of macross survivors, clones and zentraedi?

2. In the dogfight between isamu and guld in a city... was that an actual inhabited city? or a deserted one. i always get the impression that it's deserted (looked so dead). but the buildings are all intact and actually look new. if it's deserted, could it be a city in development, where clones and humans would later be transferred? just wondering.

Macross City is a major settlement and quite massive based on the map, but we don't know exactly how many other settlements exist on Earth (at least settlements of any consequence). I'd be really surprised if there was anymore than a few hundred million people living on post-war Earth during the 2040s. Cloning and the Factory Satellite would no doubt aid growth, but it's reclamation and resources that's the biggest problem on post-war Earth. At any rate, we see massive barren, blasted portions of the Earth from orbit in the Macross Plus anime (there's one scene specifically shown during the Ghost testing, when the X-9 is destroying those orange VF-11 drones). So we have to assume large portions of the Earth are not reclaimed or inhabited.

In answer to your questions:

1. I'll repost my answer to another member:

Adding up survivors at the Apollo Base on the moon, survivors from the UN Spacy fleet, survivors in the Grand Cannon facilities, the SDF-1 and other small space outposts probably adds up to at least a million human survivors. The Macross Compendium states the following:

March

Conclusion of Space [stellar] War I. Earth atmospheric purification operation begins. A total of several hundred thousand [to approximately one million] survivors confirmed in the Grand Cannons [i,] III and V, the Lunar surface's Apollo Base, and the space colony clusters [bunches].

So there's actually more than enough humans remaining to repopulate naturally. But the use of Protoculture cloning technology helps the human population grow far, far more quickly.

2. I doubt Macross City was deserted, just very empty. The 30th Anniversary ceremony combined with the most popular music idol in the Galaxy is likely what lead to the empty feeling of the city. Most everyone would be at the ceremony/concert. And it was early morning. I remember the early Sunday mornings in my old home city of Calgary (approx 1 million pop). The downtown core looked like a ghost town, no pun intended