Newbie Questions on Macross

[Master Dex]

And might I add that the VF-17 is a thing of beauty? As is the VF-22. And the Q-Raus in the bonus episode. And ALL the mecha in Dynamite 7.

Well before Frontier introduced me to the VF-25 I was practically in love with the VF-22 design, however I'm not so much of a fan of the VF-17, and that translated to the VF-171 in frontier, which looks better to me, but still not my type of aerospace craft. I don't think it is anything against the valkyrie itself, mostly it is probably because they are inspired by the F-117 and I don't like that plane much at all.

Edited May 15, 2008 by Master Dex

[Gubaba]

Well before Frontier introduced me to the VF-25 I was practically in love with the VF-22 design, however I'm not so much of a fan of the VF-17, and that translated to the VF-171 in frontier, which looks better to me, but still not my type of aerospace craft. I don't think it is anything against the valkyrie itself, mostly it is probably because they are inspired by the F-117 and I don't like that plane much at all.

Yeah...I think the VF-171 looks better, too. But I still stand by the VF-22...although that's a case of my fondness for the pilot oversahdowing my fondness for the Valk.

But when you get around to watching M7, if you hate it...please please PLEASE don't come back here and accuse it of turning little boys gay (as a rather infamous former member here was wont to do).

[Master Dex]

But when you get around to watching M7, if you hate it...please please PLEASE don't come back here and accuse it of turning little boys gay (as a rather infamous former member here was wont to do).

I can't imagine how I could be led to believe that truthfully, despite all that I have read about M7... I seriously don't think it could be that bad, it just sounds like it might not be my cup of tea, like the VF-17/171. I've known people like that in the past though, people that are destined to make everyone hate something because they don't like and therefor ruin it for everyone, I know exactly what kind of person that is.

[JB0]

... And the Q-Raus in the bonus episode...

*twitch*

Fleet of the Strongest Women doesn't exist! It never happened!

Seriously, there's a reason that one wound up on the cutting-room floor. It's BAD.

Even by Macross 7's standards, it's just... horribly horribly stupid.

[wolfx]

*twitch*

Fleet of the Strongest Women doesn't exist! It never happened!

Seriously, there's a reason that one wound up on the cutting-room floor. It's BAD.

Even by Macross 7's standards, it's just... horribly horribly stupid.

You kidding? I thought that episode was AWESOME!!

It had VF-22s. It had Max and Miria. It had Culture Shock. It had Meltrandi screaming like rabid teenage school girls. It had Exeldore blushing. Wilco Tango Foxtrot are you thinking?

[Morpheus]

You kidding? I thought that episode was AWESOME!!

It had VF-22s. It had Max and Miria. It had Culture Shock. It had Meltrandi screaming like rabid teenage school girls. It had Exeldore blushing. Wilco Tango Foxtrot are you thinking?

Basara convert a fleet of AMAZON women into FAN GIRL, its an insult to those who died that day.

Caused of death: missile rape by Basara fan girl......

[wolfx]

Value of life in M7 has been portrayed to be low for the entire series....seriously. There's no sense of urgency or loss when a whole buncha carriers sink and when 80% of all valk squadron combat efficiency has dropped. Besides, it is assumed everyone ejects safely before blowing up in M7.

[Gubaba]

Basara convert a fleet of AMAZON women into FAN GIRL

You say that like it's a bad thing.

BOMBAA!

[Phil K]

It's a shame all the people that got introduced (or reintroduced) to Macross through Plus consider Macross to be some sorta super serious business franchise. Macross has never taken itself seriously and is prone to be a bit silly at times. But I guess if you don't like 7, you wouldn't like Fleet of the Strongest Women. I personally can't stop laughing at the awesomeness of it.

[Zinjo]

Value of life in M7 has been portrayed to be low for the entire series....seriously. There's no sense of urgency or loss when a whole buncha carriers sink and when 80% of all valk squadron combat efficiency has dropped. Besides, it is assumed everyone ejects safely before blowing up in M7.

Ah yes... I remember it welll.... The GI Joe of the Macross Franchise....

It's OK, war is fun! See, only the vehicles get destoryed, no one really gets hurt in a war....

[Mr March]

Hehehe, so true. But there was Physica, the obligatory, token anime death

[Zinjo]

It's a shame all the people that got introduced (or reintroduced) to Macross through Plus consider Macross to be some sorta super serious business franchise. Macross has never taken itself seriously and is prone to be a bit silly at times. But I guess if you don't like 7, you wouldn't like Fleet of the Strongest Women. I personally can't stop laughing at the awesomeness of it.

Actully Macross started as a parody and then became a serious space opera, followed by the equally serious Macross Plus, Mac 7 was more of a manga type story (according to Kawamori) with a very strong emphasis on Music. Plus was a more serious story as well, despite its ending. Now Mac Frontier is following in the dramatic footsteps of SDFM.

From my calculations, Kawamori likes the dramatic aspects of the universe as opposed to the J-Pop heavy younger demographic, judging by the tone of all the Macross projects he has directly been involved in. In Mac 7 he provided the story outlines and mecha designs and was filiming Mac Plus while Mac 7 was on the air.

Edited May 15, 2008 by Zinjo

[raymond]

I've been browsing through Wikipedia and Google recently and here's a quickie: Is the new show called Macross Frontier or just Macross F? The english entry calls it Frontier while in japanese its マクロスF. AniDB also calls it just Macross F. Probably just a minor thing but I would like to know nonetheless.

[Sulendil Ang]

Good question. It's actually Macross Frontier, judging from the op of each episode so far, and Macross F is just a short form for the title.

BTW, two new questions from me:

1. Is there a Battroid Mode for VT-1 Super Ostrich with fast pact? I just curious that I see no lineart for that particular mode in Macross Mecha Manual.

2. What actually is the Quimeliquola special inertia vector control system? To be more precise, how does that system works? Does the system actually able to measure the quantity of the inertia of Q-Rau (something our Earth tech is unable to archive) and adjust the vernier thrusters to minimize the impact of the inertia?

Edited May 16, 2008 by Sulendil Ang

[Mr March]

There might be a VT-1 Battroid mode picture with FAST Packs, but I've never seen it. Actually, it was hard enough finding a Battroid picture at all (the one I'm currently using is a very rough drawing).

AFAIK, the inertia vector control system is not described in any detail. From the name it sounds more like a technology for maximizing thrust and maneuverability and not anything to do with the pilot. It's probably a system that calculates for each thruster exactly how much thrust to apply to move the most mass in the quickest way based on the vector of inertia and taking into account the overall mass along with the current thrust of all the other thrusters and verniers.

[azrael]

I've been browsing through Wikipedia and Google recently and here's a quickie: Is the new show called Macross Frontier or just Macross F? The english entry calls it Frontier while in japanese its マクロスF. AniDB also calls it just Macross F. Probably just a minor thing but I would like to know nonetheless.

The full name is "Macross Frontier". Short hand is "Macross F".

[Valkyrie addict]

It's actually Macross Flantier

[JB0]

But I guess if you don't like 7, you wouldn't like Fleet of the Strongest Women. I personally can't stop laughing at the awesomeness of it.

I actually like 7. I probably won't watch it again, but it's a fun show with some interesting ideas(some of which are handled poorly, but...).

But for an entire fleet of meltrandi to be reduced to screaming undewrwear-throwing fangirls with one song... it shatters my poor QRau-loving heart.

[Morpheus]

But for an entire fleet of meltrandi to be reduced to screaming undewrwear-throwing fangirls with one song... it shatters my poor QRau-loving heart.

Wait, they throw their under wear?? (quickly search Fleet of Strongest Woman and watching it frame by frame).....

[JB0]

Wait, they throw their under wear?? (quickly search Fleet of Strongest Woman and watching it frame by frame).....

No, but I suspect it's only the hard vacuum of space that prevents them from doing so. They're fangirls of the worst sort.

[stray]

I was kind of underwhelmed by "Fleet of the strongest women" as far as the Encore episodes go... although I thought "Which one do you love?" was absolutely hysterical and put the whole Macross universe into perspective. I still haven't seen Dynamite, but I just recently got done watching 7 all the way through and absolutely loved it as a whole.

On the subject of newbie questions when did the Zentradi start getting pointy ears? Seems like they get random abilities every so often (like Ranka's hair).

[Gubaba]

On the subject of newbie questions when did the Zentradi start getting pointy ears? Seems like they get random abilities every so often (like Ranka's hair).

The pointy ears started in M7 and Plus (Guld's ears were pointy, weren't they...?). They were also really pale, which no longer seems to be the case in MF.

[Phil K]

The pointy ears started in M7 and Plus (Guld's ears were pointy, weren't they...?). They were also really pale, which no longer seems to be the case in MF.

Thought it started in DYRL.

[Gubaba]

Thought it started in DYRL.

Did it? Britai had pointy ears, but I don't recall if anyone else did...maybe I was just too distracted by the fact that they were all bald...

[stray]

Did it? Britai had pointy ears, but I don't recall if anyone else did...maybe I was just too distracted by the fact that they were all bald...

I don't think Millia had pointy ears in DYRL. The Zentradi were very bald though, on the whole. And somewhat green... I'm still kind of on the fence as to whether I like DYRL or SDFM Exedol better.

Anyway I can't tell if it's intended to be elf-ish or star trek...

[Mr March]

The three Zentradi emissaries in DYRL clearly have pronounced pointed ears and also have oddly shaped lobes. This was continued in Macross Plus and Macross 7. The only reason the pointed ears seem to be more exaggerated on some Zentradi than others could be attributed to both style of the animation artists and a conscious decision on the part of the character designer to give certain characters particular sized ears to make them more distinguishable from each other.

[JB0]

1st rule of zentradi anatomy: It changes every year.

[taksraven]

The three Zentradi emissaries in DYRL clearly have pronounced pointed ears and also have oddly shaped lobes. This was continued in Macross Plus and Macross 7. The only reason the pointed ears seem to be more exaggerated on some Zentradi than others could be attributed to both style of the animation artists and a conscious decision on the part of the character designer to give certain characters particular sized ears to make them more distinguishable from each other.

This brings up the thing that I am most confused about now with Macross. According to the discussion here, DYRL is supposed to be a movie made within the Macross world to summarise the events of Space War I.

Ok. I can understand that.

Now, if this is the case then why do they show a frame of Britai and other characters from the original series at the very start of Macross Frontier but using DYRL designs and events. (Roy and Minmay were certainly not with them when they were captured in the original series.)

What I am asking is, what is canon now. The events and designs from the original SDF:M series or the events and designs from the "fictional, but based on fact" DYRL movie???

I know that this is probably a dumb question but I was wondering if it was possible to get a simple answer to this?

Taksraven

[Gubaba]

I don't think there is a simple answer. I suspect (and it IS merely speculation on my part) that Kawamori felt he kind of had to find some way to fit everything together, and so the "movie within a movie" route is what he chose to assuage the fans. But that doesn't limit him (or any of the staff) when it comes to design work.

Conversely, you could say that the TV show is what happened, but really it LOOKED like DYRL.

But even that doesn't COMPLETELY work...look at Macross Zero. you have to do some fancy footwork to make it jibe with the TV show, but if you look at it as happening before the events of DYRL, all continuity problems melt away.

(I did eventually find a place in "Rainy Night" where it could have happened, but...it's going to make some people very unhappy...)

[VFTF1]

But when you get around to watching M7, if you hate it...please please PLEASE don't come back here and accuse it of turning little boys gay (as a rather infamous former member here was wont to do). tongue.gif

This I don't understand I mean... Bassara and Gamlin are competing for a girl who can't decide on either of them; and the girl's mom wants her to marry a military pilot (like daddy) who is respectable instead of end up with a rebelious rock star... sounds like a pretty stereotypical girl/guy aka not gay story to me...

Who was this member and where can I read these interesting theories of his?

VFTF1

[Gubaba]

Who was this member and where can I read these interesting theories of his?

VFTF1

You can find Agent ONE spewing forth in all his glory here:

http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showuser=204

But bring a spoon! You'll want to catch every drop...

[JB0]

I don't think there is a simple answer. I suspect (and it IS merely speculation on my part) that Kawamori felt he kind of had to find some way to fit everything together, and so the "movie within a movie" route is what he chose to assuage the fans. But that doesn't limit him (or any of the staff) when it comes to design work.

Conversely, you could say that the TV show is what happened, but really it LOOKED like DYRL.

If I recall, the "TV series is real" point was only for purposes of constructing a timeline, and the "real" Space War 1 is supposed to be somewhere in between the two.

But even that doesn't COMPLETELY work...look at Macross Zero. you have to do some fancy footwork to make it jibe with the TV show, but if you look at it as happening before the events of DYRL, all continuity problems melt away.

(I did eventually find a place in "Rainy Night" where it could have happened, but...it's going to make some people very unhappy...)

I probably wasn't paying enough attention, but I don't see where Zero fails to fit, chronologically.

Now, I DO see some problems, though.

Focker has short hair, Focker has no booze, and Focker fails miserably at picking up a chick.

The obvious conclusion is that the Roy Focker in Zero isn't OUR Focker, but someone else with the same name.

[Gubaba]

If I recall, the "TV series is real" point was only for purposes of constructing a timeline, and the "real" Space War 1 is supposed to be somewhere in between the two.

I probably wasn't paying enough attention, but I don't see where Zero fails to fit, chronologically.

Now, I DO see some problems, though.

Focker has short hair, Focker has no booze, and Focker fails miserably at picking up a chick.

The obvious conclusion is that the Roy Focker in Zero isn't OUR Focker, but someone else with the same name.

For TV Vs. DYRL, yeah...i remember an interview in Animag where Kawamori said that both were equally valid, but that was before Studio Nue came up with the timeline, so I'm not sure his words still stand.

As for Zero, IIRC, there was a big kerfuffle here about Zero not fitting in with Rainy Night, since he confessed his love to Claudia the night before taking the VF-X-1 out for a first spin, and he was scared because it was different from anything he'd flown before. So we had people trying to rationalize how in Zero, he was flying a variable fighter quite skillfully but was apparently "unattached," if you will.

My answer is that Zero happened AFTER he hooked up with Claudia, but he wasn't expecting to run into an old woulda/coulda/shoulda...and thoughts of Claudia took a backseat. If Aries had lived, he would've had quite a choice to make...

I still think it works better as a pre-DYRL story, though.

[JB0]

For TV Vs. DYRL, yeah...i remember an interview in Animag where Kawamori said that both were equally valid, but that was before Studio Nue came up with the timeline, so I'm not sure his words still stand.

As for Zero, IIRC, there was a big kerfuffle here about Zero not fitting in with Rainy Night, since he confessed his love to Claudia the night before taking the VF-X-1 out for a first spin, and he was scared because it was different from anything he'd flown before. So we had people trying to rationalize how in Zero, he was flying a variable fighter quite skillfully but was apparently "unattached," if you will.

My answer is that Zero happened AFTER he hooked up with Claudia, but he wasn't expecting to run into an old woulda/coulda/shoulda...and thoughts of Claudia took a backseat. If Aries had lived, he would've had quite a choice to make...

That was my assumption too, actually.

Good thing she died, huh?

(I largely stayed out of the Zero threads. Don't remember why anymore.)

I still think it works better as a pre-DYRL story, though.

Well, it's a lot easier to do DYRL prequels, since DYRL has so much less in it.

I'm pretty sure that's why the TV series was used as the core of the timeline.

Of course, DYRL itself assumes you've seen the TV series.

I don't think it works well as a standalone story.

*chuckles*

Now I'm remembering the PS2 game pre-release hype. They were claiming it would contain the "definitive" version of Space War 1... and it wound up with the TV and DYRL story arcs co-existing in the same game, on separate irreconcilable paths.

[VFTF1]

Heh

I always rationalized that Zero happened BEFORE Rainy Night's meeting with Claudia and the "fear speech"

I think Roy was ALWAYS afraid - but only AFTER he had lost Aires to war - he decided that he had to come out with his feelings and not be afraid of being attached to a woman.

After all - he clearly didn't see Aires off to Oxford and what could have been a budding romance was left dangling. This is probably because Roy doesn't want to hurt the women in his life the way the death of his friend in war hurt him. So Roy keeps Aires at a distance.

When she dies - he realizes that he lost a chance to consumate a great love.

He returns to Claudia in the rain and gives her a speech about how scared he is to fly the new fighter - this is the first time he shows his fear to someone else - it doesn't mean that he has to be shivering in the cockpit - he is just opening up and letting Claudia know that he's scared of death and pain for loved ones but still values her feelings.

The tragedy is that he then ends up causing Claudia grief after he dies - although I think he comes back for the salad precisely to wash away any doubt Claudia might have had that he loved her.

DYRL doesn't fit this story as well.

VFTF1