Newbie Questions on Macross

[Mr March]

Ahhh so that's why they looked similar. Thanks for all the answers, mr march, azrael and briscojr84

You're welcome. Hehehe, the fan questions always appear before I can get the next update made. Never enough time

This reasonning makes sense, indeed

Thanks

You're welcome. I tried to put a lot of thought into it and I think it makes sense.

[ce25254]

Why do the tail fins on the backpacks of the VT-1 and VE-1 from DYRL not fold flat?

Is it because of the two-pilot cockpit configuration?

I just noticed this recently, had never paid attention to it before.

[Mr March]

It may just be a stylistic choice, similar to the scene in which Hikaru transforms his VF-1A into GERWALK to rescue Minmay but the vertical stabilizers are still in fighter configuration. There has been speculation that because of the larger two-seat nose configuration (which features a higher back seat and larger canopy than other two-seat, VF-1 variants), the backpack/stabilizer section cannot fold flat properly like most of VF-1 fighters. That's about the only explanations I can recall.

[Macross007]

I have a question regarding UN Spacy origins : I want to know if NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization) is some sort of UN Spacy ancestor.

Edited January 9, 2008 by Macross007

[azrael]

I have a question regarding UN Spacy origins : I want to know if NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization) is some sort of UN Spacy ancestor.

It doesn't appear so. I appears the UN (or at least the pre-UN Wars version) existed prior to 1999. NATO may have also had existed as well.

[Macross007]

It doesn't appear so. I appears the UN (or at least the pre-UN Wars version) existed prior to 1999. NATO may have also had existed as well.

I am not talking about UN. I am just talking about UN Spacy. More precisely, I want to know if there are possibilities that UN took NATO organisation, technology, personnal, equipment etc to form UN Spacy.

[azrael]

I am not talking about UN. I am just talking about UN Spacy. More precisely, I want to know if there are possibilities that UN took NATO organisation, technology, personnal, equipment etc to form UN Spacy.

Chances are no, in the sense that they weren't used to form the unit from nothing, more likely fill its ranks. Organizations like NATO probably would have been just absorbed and divided into the UN Armed Forces and other UN-based organizations along with the rest of their resources.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I've just been rewatching macross plus OVA.

With regard to the "who loaded the gunpod with live ammo?" mystery, was Guld in fact guilty of having tampered with the inventory program to make Dyson look like he was trying to cheat?

The goal of Guld's being that if he won the battroid brawl he would win the project, but (as a backup plan) if he lost he could then say Dyson had attempted a dirty rotten move (using real ammo to destroy the yf-21) and then still look good? (covering both ends - remember that just before this scene is when guld is confident that he's won myung, and all that he has to do now is win the competition so he might have had time to plan ahead)

Or was it sharon apple who hacked into the inventory program: ie help guld frame dyson (without guld knowing what happened) so myung can sympathise with the injured guld, and that way she (sharon) can have Dyson all for herself?

It was never really clear to me whose fault it was. And before you say that Guld must be guilty because (in the elevator scene) he wonders why is the black guy "helping him", that to me is not enough evidence that Guld actually put the live ammo in the gunpod. It could just be that he is curious as to why he is being helped by a filthy human (he is being cynical and guesses that being saved means the black guy expects a favour in return for this).

I think it could have been sharon apple, because towards the end she reveals she is after dyson. Getting Guld injured by having dyson physically hurt him with the live ammo would allow guld to get sympathy points from myung (she hates it when they fight so she would be drawn towards the least violent one more) and then sharon can make her move unimpeded. (no love triangle if guld gets his girl)

Edited January 12, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[briscojr84]

I've just been rewatching macross plus OVA.

With regard to the "who loaded the gunpod with live ammo?" mystery, was Guld in fact guilty of having tampered with the inventory program to make Dyson look like he was trying to cheat?

The goal of Guld's being that if he won the battroid brawl he would win the project, but (as a backup plan) if he lost he could then say Dyson had attempted a dirty rotten move (using real ammo to destroy the yf-21) and then still look good? (covering both ends - remember that just before this scene is when guld is confident that he's won myung, and all that he has to do now is win the competition so he might have had time to plan ahead)

Or was it sharon apple who hacked into the inventory program: ie help guld frame dyson (without guld knowing what happened) so myung can sympathise with the injured guld, and that way she (sharon) can have Dyson all for herself?

It was never really clear to me whose fault it was. And before you say that Guld must be guilty because (in the elevator scene) he wonders why is the black guy "helping him", that to me is not enough evidence that Guld actually put the live ammo in the gunpod. It could just be that he is curious as to why he is being helped by a filthy human (he is being cynical and guesses that being saved means the black guy expects a favour in return for this).

I think it could have been sharon apple, because towards the end she reveals she is after dyson. Getting Guld injured by having dyson physically hurt him with the live ammo would allow guld to get sympathy points from myung (she hates it when they fight so she would be drawn towards the least violent one more) and then sharon can make her move unimpeded. (no love triangle if guld gets his girl)

Guld was the one that switched ammo, and I think it had more to do with him either wanting to kill Dyson or if that didn't work Dyson killing him and being nailed for murder.

[JB0]

That entire scene, while a neat fight, is an illogical nightmare that makes no good sense.

Movie version for the win.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Movie didn't have the opening scene showing the vf-11 stabbing the zentradi in the gut and then lifting him over his head while the knife is still in his gut and then throwing him to the ground while his blood comes gushing out of the suit.

Some fan should go ahead and make a fan made "ultimate cut" that has the best stuff from ova and combines it with the extra stuff from the movie! Anyone willing to do it? Let's be honest with ourselves: the movie while having tits, took some of the mecha porn out. VF-11 derserves more than being blown up in the background or crashed to the ground like a piece of crap. That one scene shows it shine.

Oh and yeah while I do think guld did actually do it, I wish there was actual proof one way or the other. It just needs to be there explained. There is still no actual proof within the OVA that he was responsible. He could have been surprised that the black guy was saving him for no reason. He never at any point in the ova admits "I did it" and we never get to hear the evidence from the investigation that guld was the one who tampered with the inventory prgram. So that's why I put out the possibility that maybe it was neither of them and sharon might be involved some way. (just like the phonecall about the fire that would soon break out where she is spying on myung's hidden thoughts and from judging by the cameras she controls, able to guess who the people she is thinking about in her mind are. And then manipulating events by getting both of them to rescue her)

If anyone has any solid proof that Guld actually did do it, please show me the proof in the OVA. Sure he was guilty of the tipping over of the vf-11 (which was semi accidental since the battroid did it after he thought about it ) but you can't say with 100% certainty; without a shadow of a doubt, that you KNOW Guld did it and that's what has always gotten to me. That would be like me accusing you of murdering your neighbor (without seeing anything) because of a grudge you two had over the noise you each make so "it's probably true". Sure I could say "you never got along" but unless I have some solid evidence people can't assume that you are some murderer due to a petty argument.

Edited January 12, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[JB0]

Movie didn't have the opening scene showing the vf-11 stabbing the zentradi in the gut and then lifting him over his head while the knife is still in his gut and then throwing him to the ground while his blood comes gushing out of the suit.

Some fan should go ahead and make a fan made "ultimate cut" that has the best stuff from ova and combines it with the extra stuff from the movie! Anyone willing to do it? Let's be honest with ourselves: the movie while having tits, took some of the mecha porn out. VF-11 derserves more than being blown up in the background or crashed to the ground like a piece of crap. That one scene shows it shine.

Oh and yeah while I do think guld did actually do it, I wish there was actual proof one way or the other. It just needs to be there explained. There is still no actual proof within the OVA that he was responsible. He could have been surprised that the black guy was saving him for no reason. He never at any point in the ova admits "I did it" and we never get to hear the evidence from the investigation that guld was the one who tampered with the inventory prgram. So that's why I put out the possibility that maybe it was neither of them and sharon might be involved some way. (just like the phonecall about the fire that would soon break out where she is spying on myung's hidden thoughts and from judging by the cameras she controls, able to guess who the people she is thinking about in her mind are. And then manipulating events by getting both of them to rescue her)

If anyone has any solid proof that Guld actually did do it, please show me the proof in the OVA. Sure he was guilty of the tipping over of the vf-11 (which was semi accidental since the battroid did it after he thought about it ) but you can't say with 100% certainty; without a shadow of a doubt, that you KNOW Guld did it and that's what has always gotten to me. That would be like me accusing you of murdering your neighbor (without seeing anything) because of a grudge you two had over the noise you each make so "it's probably true". Sure I could say "you never got along" but unless I have some solid evidence people can't assume that you are some murderer due to a petty argument.

I admit they don't explicitly state it, but it's heavily implied.

Sharon isn't hooked up to the New Edwards base. She can't do it. Besides, she has no way to guarantee that Isamu and Guld will get in a fight the next day. Either Isamu or Guld HAS to be involved.

Guld is quick to blame the YF-19 team, though this could just be because he hates Isamu.

Isamu clearly didn't know his gun had live ammo in it. If he did, he would've either not used it, or when it died after the paint rounds he'd've kept firing until it went live again. Instead, he throws it away, barrier-punches the YF-21, and sits there kicking it over and over, while the live gun lies in easy reach of the damaged YF-21.

Besides, would Yang really go along if Isamu said "Hey, I hate that bastard in the other plane. Help me blow it up."? Guld's version is implausable in the extreme. And Yang is as embarrassed, disgusted, and stunned as everyone else by the progression of events.

More telling is the fact that Guld disabled the BCS, then grabbed a "jammed" gunpod. While it could've been an act of desperation, he seemed more coherent than that. Grabbing a dead gunpod only makes sense if he knows it's not really dead. And in this situation, filled with paint isn't very useful either.

Killing BCS, as Millard notes, keeps anyone else from knowing what he was thinking during the critical moments.

So Guld is the only logical choice, unless we add a secret agent of UN Spacey on-site mixing up gun ammo to ensure things go totally wrong.

[Macross007]

So Guld is the only logical choice, unless we add a secret agent of UN Spacey on-site mixing up gun ammo to ensure things go totally wrong.

After Isamu and Guld, there is a third possibility : the Generals. During the meeting, the Generals were quick to make the investigation as short as possible and everybody was surprised including Glud. Add to the fact Yang said that one of the Generals cleary hated the pilots. And remember everybody that at the beginning of the OAV version right after the battle, one the Generals said that he did not appreciate Isamu's attitude comparing Isamu to a criminal. So as you said, a secret agent employed by the Generals to slow down the projet seems to me possible.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Ah but if guld had loaded the gunpod, how would he know he would lie in the exact spot on the floor in the battroid fight? Or that isamu wouldn't just miss him while he was dodging isamu's gundpod shots? (are you saying he can count exactly how many rounds left there are in the gunpod by superhumanly listening to each bullet leave the weapon and then know when the live ammo would come out and being psychic and predicting where he would land and how the fight would go?) I mean wouldn't guld risk getting himself killed if it was him who really loaded the gunpod which would then prevent him from winning (and "protecting") the girl he is after?

(and yeah he does *actually* kill himself at the end but that death was his way of protecting myung from the ghost/sharon, not against isamu who he thought was generally a monstrous rapist in his blocked memory state)

So confusing.

But the sharon apple conspiracy theory might explain it all, since she has fiddled with stuff before like making the ghost and the defense satellites go rogue and out of control, hypnotising the crew of the sdf-1 (she could've hypnotised some people responsible for the inventory program so it could actually be another person) and making yang not want to help dyson rescue myung after all.. (by using the orange haired girl flirt with him in the cockpit of the yf-19)

So I see it as sharon manipulating events behind the scenes without anyone knowing it at the time. (and because she is so good at hiding it there is just no evidence that it was her since she's just an innocent AI who has no emotions or so we are led to believe meaning the investigators at the time wouldn't have suspected anything)

Edited January 13, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Macross007]

But the sharon apple conspiracy theory might explain it all, since she has fiddled with stuff before like making the ghost and the defense satellites go rogue and out of control, hypnotising the crew of the sdf-1 (she could've hypnotised some people responsible for the inventory program so it could actually be another person) and making yang not want to help dyson rescue myung after all.. (by using the orange haired girl flirt with him in the cockpit of the yf-19)

So I see it as sharon manipulating events behind the scenes without anyone knowing it at the time. (and because she is so good at hiding it there is just no evidence that it was her since she's just an innocent AI who has no emotions or so we are led to believe meaning the investigators at the time wouldn't have suspected anything)

Yeah, yeah your theory can work. Yang was trying to access Sharon's emotional program and because of that Sharon surely found a way to infiltrate the New Edwards Test Flight Center computers through Yang's computer.

Edited January 13, 2008 by Macross007

[briscojr84]

Yeah, yeah your theory can work. Yang was trying to access Sharon's emotional program and because of that Sharon surely found a way to infiltrate the New Edwards Test Flight Center computers through Yang's computer.

I doubt that, it does however show Guld hacking into the bases computer system.

[Macross007]

I doubt that, it does however show Guld hacking into the bases computer system.

I don't remember. What scene ?

[azrael]

I don't remember. What scene ?

It was in episode 2 of the OAV, right before Myung was about to be killed by Sharon. You do see Guld in the dark room hacking the computer. So i would say briscojr84's assessment is close. If Guld didn't want Isamu killing him, then the thought of having live ammo during tests would have put a very bright light on the YF-19 team. The rifle was suppose to be loaded with paint rounds/test rounds, and yet the thing fired live ammo. So that would have gotten someone on the YF-19 team in trouble, if not the whole team.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I'm going to have to rewatch that bit.

edit:

Yeah I see it now he is looking at some weapons. It's very brief, like a few seconds and very easy to miss.

the eyeball reflection

giant bullets.

On first viewing there is no real indication that it had anything to do with the yf-19. (nothing on the monitor says in obvious letter what weapons is he looking at, often in movies the writers play with your mind making you think one thing and then twisting it - ie like the images of the camera's spying on dyson before he steals the yf-19 which would make you think it was sharon, but then you realise it was yang who hacked the security system who was the one spying on dyson in the cameras, revealing himself in the backseat ) Although that brief scene becomes really obvious to you *after* you get to the end. (when the gunpod issue comes up as a focal point in ep 3)

The black guy was pretty irresponsible to have covered for him. Good thing they showed his relaxed side in the movie edition to explain where this hyposcrisy is coming from . (ie the bit where he talks to lucy after dyson took off with the 19 to fight the ghost)

Edited January 13, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[JB0]

Yeah, yeah your theory can work. Yang was trying to access Sharon's emotional program and because of that Sharon surely found a way to infiltrate the New Edwards Test Flight Center computers through Yang's computer.

That's actually a good point. I'd forgotten Yang was trying to pirate Sharon.

It could be multiple things all at once. Guld started in on it, and Sharon lent a helping hand. Or something.

That's still a sequence that makes my head hurt, and really shouldn't have been added as-is.

But it was, and we're stuck with it.

[Macross007]

It could be multiple things all at once. Guld started in on it, and Sharon lent a helping hand. Or something.

That's still a sequence that makes my head hurt, and really shouldn't have been added as-is.

Sharon making the hacking easier of the YF-19 weapon system for Guld ? Make sense.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

That's still a sequence that makes my head hurt, and really shouldn't have been added as-is.

But it was, and we're stuck with it.

Guld looking at these giant bullets (even though we don't know whose they are until later) is enough evidence for me. It's just the brevity of that moment that is very easy to miss. (no indication he is doing something sneaky, no indication its to do with the yf-19, and no actual image of him doing *something* to the bullets - ie just showing bullets) Anyway the OVA isn't so confusing now! You can throw the trashy movie edition in the bin if you want.

..Now if they can just make a movie version of Mac Zero...

Edited January 13, 2008 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[JB0]

Guld looking at these giant bullets (even though we don't know whose they are until later) is enough evidence for me. It's just the brevity of that moment that is very easy to miss. (no indication he is doing something sneaky, no indication its to do with the yf-19, and no actual image of him doing *something* to the bullets - ie just showing bullets) Anyway the OVA isn't so confusing now! You can throw the trashy movie edition in the bin if you want.

..Now if they can just make a movie version of Mac Zero...

No, it's not the actual act of swapping the bullets.

It's the logic behind it, and the fight that follows, that make my head hurt.

The BEST is Guld was trying to frame Isamu, and was counting on winning after the gun "jammed" on what I assume was a series of blanks between the paint ammo and real bullets, then grabbed the gun in desperation after he lost control and got the tar beat out of him. It still relies on Isamu acting like a dumbass and "provoking" Guld into beating up on the YF-19 on the specific flight.

There's simply no good way to justify the entire sequence.

Movie version is far better for the omission of that segment and a few other OVA tweaks that disrupt logic.

The other REALLY jarring one is Isamu backing down when Guld starts accusing him of not caring about Myung because he didn't show up at the concert hall fire, when in the OVA he DID show up. It makes FAR more sense when he ignores the arson announcement for some happy time with Lucy.

And it has the Ghost battle of raw awesomeness.

My ultimate cut basically starts with the movie, then adds the intro with Isamu's zentradi battle and transfer(which aside from being slightly tamed awesome, helps establish Isamu's character).

There's probably another scene or two worth putting back into the movie, but... it's been a while since I watched the OVA, and an even longer time since I watched the movie(my VHS is in rough shape, I can't justify spending the cash on the piss-poor R1 DVD transfer, and I haven't picked up a region-free player yet).

[Macross007]

Again another question regarding Macross Zero (I know, I love Macross Zero way too much ) : How many people died during the Unification Wars ?

[azrael]

Again another question regarding Macross Zero (I know, I love Macross Zero way too much ) : How many people died during the Unification Wars ?

Too many to count.

[Keith]

Again another question regarding Macross Zero (I know, I love Macross Zero way too much ) : How many people died during the Unification Wars ?

Let's try asking Mr. Owl.

1...2...3, 3 people died!

[Macross007]

Let's try asking Mr. Owl.

1...2...3, 3 people died!

Ok, I understand guys. No need to be that sacarstic.

[RichterX]

Too many to count.

I would dare to say several millions, even though i don't like using it as a reference, you can see numbers of casualties on the only major war i could compare it with:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

[JB0]

I would dare to say several millions, even though i don't like using it as a reference, you can see numbers of casualties on the only major war i could compare it with:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

Though WW2 was localized to Europe, and at a time when the Earth's overall population density was lower(though the ASS-1's arrival on Earth apparently caused enough chaos to reduce the population a fair bit without the help of warfare).

I'd say, based on the WW2 numbers, that a death toll surpassing a hundred million is not only probable, but likely on the low side.

*running through the Compendium Chronology section*

In 2006...

"October

In the Central Russian Administrative Region, the Anti-U.N. Army uses strategic [tactical] nukes. St. Petersburg's [Leningrad's] destruction demonstrates that the Anti-U.N. Army also has the capability for retaliatory strikes using thermonuclear reaction weaponry on the earth's surface. "

That city has a current real-world population of 4.6 million.

Assuming it was orchestrated for maximum destruction in minimum time... that's almost 5 million people dead in ONE attack.

Also, in 2005...

"April 14

Founding Earth U.N. Government prime minister [representative] Harlan J. Niven [Niiben (sic)] is assassinated. Robert A. Rhysnink [Rhysling] is installed as his successor. "

HAHAHA!!!!

A world ruled by people named after Harlan Ellision, Larry Niven, Robert Heinlen, and they Rhysling awards(which are themselves named after a bard from one of Heinlen's stories)? It's no wonder the UN built humanoid robots and transforming jets. With nerds like that holding the checkbook, it was inevitable.

[wolfx]

Can someone tell me the exact episode of SDF Macross (and timestamp if possible) that:

1.) Has the best scene of Minmay singing "Watashi Wa Kare Wa Piloto"

2.) has Exeldore singing "Watashi Wa Kare Wa Piloto"

I wanna extract those scenes out for convention purposes. Thanks.

[Awacs]

Can someone tell me the exact episode of SDF Macross (and timestamp if possible) that:

1.) Has the best scene of Minmay singing "Watashi Wa Kare Wa Piloto"

2.) has Exeldore singing "Watashi Wa Kare Wa Piloto"

I wanna extract those scenes out for convention purposes. Thanks.

I can't really help you with 1). because I'm not sure how to define "best" in this case. But the answer to 2) is "Messenger" (by coinkidink I was watching that last night).

Karl

[wolfx]

I can't really help you with 1). because I'm not sure how to define "best" in this case. But the answer to 2) is "Messenger" (by coinkidink I was watching that last night).

Karl

Thanks Awacs! You're a great help.

And off topic....wow I'm Basara's College Roomate...that's a new one I haven't seen before!

[promethuem5]

Kinda a dumb question (hence asking here).... but do we know when Macross F will start as a full series? I can't find that info in any of the other MacF threads and don't want to derail their discussions there.

[azrael]

Kinda a dumb question (hence asking here).... but do we know when Macross F will start as a full series? I can't find that info in any of the other MacF threads and don't want to derail their discussions there.

We don't have an actual date. All we know is April 2008. We'll get a more exact date as we get closer to April.

[promethuem5]

Ah, thanks... April it is then.