Newbie Questions on Macross

[BEAST]

Well, if BW didn't sign some rights over, Macross would never have existed.

"Some" rights being signed over, I get.

It's the "exclusive" part that seems to have caused all the problems.

Why not let SN/BW license merchandise based on their copyrighted designs, apart from the show? How can HG block that? Since SN/BW holds authorial rights to the designs, then merchandise based on those should be free from HG interference.

Do a search on it in google. You may be surprised while reading the results. Surprised specifically how Japanese law works in regards to enshrining the worker's right when it comes to copyright.

I've been reading the 60-some-odd-page locked thread here on that. I do appreciate that one of the cases upheld SN/BW's authorial rights regarding the basic Macross designs.

But it sounds like a weird analysis of the contracts/licenses is in effect here. Everything seems to be interpreted in favor of the bigger companies, with the bigger money, instead of in the favor of the creators of the show. That defies the "reasonable person" standard I mentioned.

I'll try to look into the laws, as you said, but I can't see how anyone would be justified in disregarding reason and fairness to the creators.

Blaming the judges is wrong, as they are interpreting and enforcing the law as it is written. If you don't like the law, then elect new politicians and have the law changed.

How can a law side with companies that haven't shown written contracts/licenses to back up their claims, though? There doesn't appear to be any written documentation or reason on their side. They just have their claims--and their money and intimidating lawyers. Decent judges shouldn't go for that.

Again, I'll try to find the laws. But it all smells fishy. It trips my reason/BS meter.

[azrael]

This thread isn't designed for going into that much detail. This is a simple Q&A thread.

Why not let SN/BW license merchandise based on their copyrighted designs, apart from the show?

SN/BW is not a distribution company. It's more of a production studio. They design the stuff that some other company makes merchandise for. BW signed over the merchandising rights to Tatsunoko. Tatsunoko owns the SDFM animation. Tatsunoko licensed those rights to HG, therefore, HG has merchandising rights on SDFM. They can base whatever designs they want from only what has appeared in the animation of SDFM.

How can a law side with companies that haven't shown written contracts/licenses to back up their claims, though? There doesn't appear to be any written documentation or reason on their side.

Back when this was an issue, the courts did have the written documentation. If you want to see the actual papers, you'll need to get a hold of the court documents. It's been about 5 years since I've seen the court summary papers, but I do recall them appearing on the boards a while back. Just because you can't find them, doesn't mean they don't exist. Contracts between parties do not necessarily have to be disclosed to the public. If you wish to view the contract that HG made with Tatsunoko, you can challenge their claims in court.

If you want to see the documentation from Japan, you'll need to retrieve those records from the courts in Japan.

[sketchley]

Not trying to continue the discussion with this post. Just posting the links that I was referring to. They contain links as well, that are well worth following.

That said, Azrael's right - continue this discussion in the right thread, please.

The links:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2003-...ight-to-macross

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2004-...macross-lawsuit

The Japanese copyright law is very interesting, because, among many things, it allows for Doujinshi.

[BEAST]

Roger, roger.

It sounds like the main problem with SN & Macross was too much sing-song, and not enough CYA.

Thanks for the direct answers, guys. I'm done.

[Duke Togo]

Ok, I'm clearly not a newbie to Macross, but I've always wondered... if there is a Space War I, shouldn't that mean that somewhere, sometime, there was a Space War II?

[azrael]

Ok, I'm clearly not a newbie to Macross, but I've always wondered... if there is a Space War I, shouldn't that mean that somewhere, sometime, there was a Space War II?

If there is, there isn't an official record of it.

[JB0]

Ok, I'm clearly not a newbie to Macross, but I've always wondered... if there is a Space War I, shouldn't that mean that somewhere, sometime, there was a Space War II?

I get the impression they just assumed there'd be another, and saved everyone the renaming of "The Space War" to "Space War One" by doing it that way from the start.

[Macross007]

Ok, I'm clearly not a newbie to Macross, but I've always wondered... if there is a Space War I, shouldn't that mean that somewhere, sometime, there was a Space War II?

Really !?!?!? I surely missed that one.

[Macross007]

A question regarding Macross Zero : The Anti-UN Forces were formed by terrorists, ultra-nationalists from different countries or just mercenaries ? Thanks for answering.

[Zinjo]

A question regarding Macross Zero : The Anti-UN Forces were formed by terrorists, ultra-nationalists from different countries or just mercenaries ? Thanks for answering.

IIRC they started off as terrorists back in the 80's then over time evolved into an army by the time of Macross Zero.

The history had been retconed to show that they were a "Military Organization" that first appeared on the scene in 2005 by destroying the Mars evacuation fleet with a comandeered space destroyer.

There is an implication that Russia and Isreal were covertly involved with the AUN forces since they both jointly developed the SV-51 fighter (however I personally find Isreal's involvement suspect if one looks at the country's traditional political ties, but I didn't write the retcon...). Which nations were involved in supplying the AUN has not been formally revealed.

[Macross007]

IIRC they started off as terrorists back in the 80's then over time evolved into an army by the time of Macross Zero.

The history had been retconed to show that they were a "Military Organization" that first appeared on the scene in 2005 by destroying the Mars evacuation fleet with a comandeered space destroyer.

There is an implication that Russia and Israel were covertly involved with the AUN forces since they both jointly developed the SV-51 fighter (however I personally find Isreal's involvement suspect if one looks at the country's traditional political ties, but I didn't write the retcon...). Which nations were involved in supplying the AUN has not been formally revealed.

What !?!?!? Israel !?!?!? If Israel was involved, that mean USA was involved too in some way, right ? I mean, USA always support Israel no what matter the cost. But I can't imagine Russia and Israel working together since Israel is one of the most loyal ally of the USA.

[azrael]

IIRC they started off as terrorists back in the 80's then over time evolved into an army by the time of Macross Zero.

The history had been retconed to show that they were a "Military Organization" that first appeared on the scene in 2005 by destroying the Mars evacuation fleet with a comandeered space destroyer.

It's never been noted or clearly stated that the AUN was originally a terrorist group that became organized so I don't know where you are getting this retcon business. That's more of an interpretation of events. Small internal conflicts grew and grew to the point where whole nations were involved.

What !?!?!? Israel !?!?!? If Israel was involved, that mean USA was involved too in some way, right ? I mean, USA always support Israel no what matter the cost. But I can't imagine Russia and Israel working together since Israel is one of the most loyal ally of the USA.

Again, this is where real life and Macross life diverge. Just because the USA helps Israel in real-life, doesn't mean that the USA helps Israel in the Macross-universe. In the Macross-universe, things diverge around the late 80s/1990s, simply because Kawamori and co. saw a much different world for their universe when working on SDFM and DYRL?.

[Macross007]

Again, this is where real life and Macross life diverge. Just because the USA helps Israel in real-life, doesn't mean that the USA helps Israel in the Macross-universe. In the Macross-universe, things diverge around the late 80s/1990s, simply because Kawamori and co. saw a much different world for their universe when working on SDFM and DYRL?.

But I thought things diverged when the Macross crashed on Earth in 1999 in the Macross universe.

[azrael]

But I thought things diverged when the Macross crashed on Earth in 1999 in the Macross universe.

Things started to look different the early 90s.

http://macross.anime.net//story/chronology...0000/index.html

[sketchley]

IIRC they started off as terrorists back in the 80's then over time evolved into an army by the time of Macross Zero.

The history had been retconed to show that they were a "Military Organization" that first appeared on the scene in 2005 by destroying the Mars evacuation fleet with a comandeered space destroyer.

There is an implication that Russia and Isreal were covertly involved with the AUN forces since they both jointly developed the SV-51 fighter (however I personally find Isreal's involvement suspect if one looks at the country's traditional political ties, but I didn't write the retcon...). Which nations were involved in supplying the AUN has not been formally revealed.

The hijacking of an Oberth Destroyer by the Anti-UN and the destruction of the evacuation fleet from Mars Base Sara is part of Macross continuity from the beginning. Along with the use of nuclear weapons to destroy major cities and the destruction of one of the under-construction Grand Cannon sites.

See http://macross.anime.net//story/chronology/1999/index.html

Specifically 2005 September. Bruno J. Gloval's first space battle; if you ever wondered why he was picked to be the Captain of the SDF-1.

Macross007 - the Anti-UN was formed, most likely out of terrorists (aka freedom fighters), who were opposed to the unified government. It is not clear if they opposed it's political reorganization of society, it's goals for the dissemination of technologies from the ASS-1, the preparation of defenses against aliens (not known in all countries on Earth, some were told it was just a giant meteor), others, or all of the above.

In fact, the only thing that is clear on the Anti-UN is that the Anti-UN before SWI and the Anti-UN after SWI are radically different. There really isn't that much information available, and the majority of it is in the compendium chronology links that Azrael and myself have provided.

[Macross007]

Things started to look different the early 90s.

http://macross.anime.net//story/chronology...0000/index.html

I see ...

[wolfx]

What does "SPACY" in UN Spacy mean? I thought it was UN Space Agency but someone thinks its UN Space Navy.

http://macross.anime.net/story/encyclopedi...pacy/index.html

Compendium doesn't mention anything. Both sorta make sense....but if the Spacy is in charge of ship colonisation and is also a government, i don't think the Navy has jurisdiction in those.

[Keith]

United Nations Space Agency.

[Macross007]

Another question regarding Macross Zero. I don't understand how the Nome sisters managed to control the AFOS. They were using genetic, mind control or something else ?

[azrael]

Another question regarding Macross Zero. I don't understand how the Nome sisters managed to control the AFOS. They were using genetic, mind control or something else ?

The Nome family have genetic markers (perhaps everybody on that island...) which make them "special". The Nome family are the "pilots" of AFOS. The can interface with AFOS. And AFOS reacts to them.

Now, in AFOS's cockpit, there are a series of tubes that wrap around Sara. What those tubes are doing...I leave to your imagination, but Sara was very much "plugged in" to AFOS so it reacts to everything she sees, hears, feels, etc.

[Keith]

I assume it's a genetic predispotion to a mind control frequency type dealy, or more to the point, the AFOS is tuned into their brainwaves.

[Zinjo]

It's never been noted or clearly stated that the AUN was originally a terrorist group that became organized so I don't know where you are getting this retcon business. That's more of an interpretation of events. Small internal conflicts grew and grew to the point where whole nations were involved.

The days long before the Compendium ever existed....

[Gui]

The discussion about cost and ressources in the Macross F mecha thread made me wonder: did the UN Spacy try to use the Factory Satellite to build other factory satellites? In order to increase the production of things and to lessen their cost in the same time, obviously...

I read K. Eric Drexler's Engines of Creation at the moment, and all his speech about nanomachines used to build other nanomachines may have influenced me on this point but after all, but why not?

[Mr March]

I'd doubt that at this stage the UNG has either the know how or resources to build another megastructure like the Factory Satellite. As for the Factory Satellite building another Factory Satellite, you have to remember that the series hints each Factory Satellite is tooled to produce only one kind of war machine. Or perhaps it may be more accurate to say that retooling a Factory Satellite to produce different vehicles is a very involved process that Zentradi do not know how to do due to their lack of technical knowledge. That is why its possible to cripple production of a certain kind of vehicle by destroying the right kind of Factory Satellites (such as what happened to the Glaug).

In the case of the Factory Satellite the UNG appropriated, it was designed for building Reguld Battle Pods. No doubt the UNG had to retool it for their own purposes, to build ships and other kinds of mecha.

Even if the UNG could retool the Factory Satellite to build another...

And even if they understood HOW to build a Factory Satellite...

And assuming they had enough resources to fuel such a massive project...

...building another megastructure like the Factory Satellite would utterly consume the time and resources of their single existing Factory Satellite (remember, colonization fleets were only produced one or two per year). There would be nothing left to build colonization vessels, warships and other mecha, a situation that would possibly persist for decades while this moon-sized structure was under construction. This would have lead to a complete halting of any exploration programs and there would be no resources to colonize other worlds. Part of the reason the UNG was able to recover so quickly after the war was due to the incredible production capabilities of the Factory Satellite. The UNG was able to rebuild their fleet and even create larger fleets than they had ever had in a much shorter period of time with the Factory Satellite. The Factory Satellite was integral to the rebuilding and expansion of the early UNG sphere. And let's not forget the UNG's priority post-war was survival through expansion, colonizing other worlds to ensure they didn't die out as a species due to the destruction of a single planet. Means of production was not a big priority once they obtained the Factory Satellite and had no reason to spend decades building another. By the 2040's the UNG had colonies like Eden that had entire cities with industrial complexes of their own that could build warships and mecha independently.

No, I think it's safe to assume the UNG were much better off using the resources of the Factory Satellite to build colonization fleets, warships, mecha and other ships for starting new colonies.

[azrael]

I assume it's a genetic predispotion to a mind control frequency type dealy, or more to the point, the AFOS is tuned into their brainwaves.

Perhaps. But we know it reacts to their blood so we know AFOS responds to a certain genetic marker. As for the actual mechanics of how AFOS translates the user's signals, well...that's Protoculture technology.

[Keith]

Perhaps. But we know it reacts to their blood so we know AFOS responds to a certain genetic marker. As for the actual mechanics of how AFOS translates the user's signals, well...that's Protoculture technology.

It has the same blood type as the Nome's, but I don't remember anything being said about it reacting to their blood. i.e. you can't use blood to see through the AFOS's eyes, but you can mentally connect with it to do so. The Shamen training may have been geared around mentally connecting with it.

[wolfx]

I haven't played VF-X so I was just curiuos.....why do the VF-X Ravens have a squadron made up of ships from different "eras"? I seen vids of them flying together a VF-1, YF-19, YF-21, Konig Monster, VF-4 etc. Isn't the VF-1 and VF-4 antiques by then and the YF-19 and 21s are experimental valkyries? Did they ever explain how they got all those fighters?

[Mr March]

The true answer is because the game designers wanted to provide the player a wide array of Macross Valkyries to pilot.

In-game fiction tells the VF-1 and VF-4 are still in service through the development of upgraded versions to make them "current". The Lightning III used in the VF-X game is designated the VF-4G and features much more powerful engines. The original Valkyrie model used is designated the VF-1X Plus and like the VF-4G features significantly upgraded engine performance.

Lastly, if you're wondering why the VF-19 and the VF-22 were used in the VF-X games it's important to note that VF-X takes place in 2047 (6 years after the VF-19 was chosen as the winner of the Super Nova AVF Competition in 2041) while VF-X2 takes place in 2050. There were certainly many VF-19s and VF-22 variable fighters in active service by that time.

Edited January 8, 2008 by Mr March

[wolfx]

The true answer is because the game designers wanted to provide the player a wide array of Macross Valkyries to pilot.

In-game fiction tells the VF-1 and VF-4 are still in service through the development of upgraded versions to make them "current". The Lightning III used in the VF-X game is designated the VF-4G and features much more powerful engines. The original Valkyrie model used is designated the VF-1X Plus and like the VF-4G features significantly upgraded engine performance.

Lastly, if you're wondering why the VF-19 and the VF-22 were used in the VF-X games it's important to note that VF-X takes place in 2047 (6 years after the VF-19 was chosen as the winner of the Super Nova AVF Competition in 2041) while VF-X2 takes place in 2050. There were certainly many VF-19s and VF-22 variable fighters in active service by that time.

Haha...of course i know the true answer....i was wondering about the game-fiction which you have also explained. Thanks.

And no i was talking about the YF-19 and 21. Not the production series VF-19 and 22....unless I have mistaken because it does look like the YF-19 and 21.

[azrael]

And no i was talking about the YF-19 and 21. Not the production series VF-19 and 22....unless I have mistaken because it does look like the YF-19 and 21.

The VF-19A was derived from the YF-19 prototype. The model for the VF-22 was indeed the same one used in M7, only colored in more YF-21 colors....kinda (I believe they used a darker color blue of the "Max" paint scheme).

[briscojr84]

The VF-19A was derived from the YF-19 prototype. The model for the VF-22 was indeed the same one used in M7, only colored in more YF-21 colors....kinda (I believe they used a darker color blue of the "Max" paint scheme).

Actually there are two models of the VF-22, the VF-22 [no added designation], and the VF-22S which the compendium says was first produced by the M7 colony for two fighters [although it should be three since Gamlin ended up with one].

[azrael]

Actually there are two models of the VF-22, the VF-22 [no added designation], and the VF-22S which the compendium says was first produced by the M7 colony for two fighters [although it should be three since Gamlin ended up with one].

The VF-X 2 Visual Guide lists only the VF-22 as the model used.

[Mr March]

Haha...of course i know the true answer....i was wondering about the game-fiction which you have also explained. Thanks.

And no i was talking about the YF-19 and 21. Not the production series VF-19 and 22....unless I have mistaken because it does look like the YF-19 and 21.

Sorry, I just had to be thorough for the worst case scenario

Actually, it is the VF-19A and VF-22 that are in the VF-X games. As azrael and briscojr84 have noted, the first production model of the YF-19, designated the VF-19A, is identical to the prototype with the exception of it's color. The VF-22 is the version used in the VF-X game, not the YF-21, though again as azrael has pointed out, it is featured in dark blue colors similar to the prototype. The VF-22S is the version that appears in Macross 7. Here's some small pictures for the two variable fighters (which will appear in the next update):

I hope that helps answer all your questions. Make sure to check out the profiles once I make the next update (should be sometime this month). I'm sure you'll love them.

Edited January 8, 2008 by Mr March

[wolfx]

Ahhh so that's why they looked similar. Thanks for all the answers, mr march, azrael and briscojr84

[Gui]

I'd doubt that at this stage the UNG has either the know how or resources to build another megastructure like the Factory Satellite. As for the Factory Satellite building another Factory Satellite, you have to remember that the series hints each Factory Satellite is tooled to produce only one kind of war machine. Or perhaps it may be more accurate to say that retooling a Factory Satellite to produce different vehicles is a very involved process that Zentradi do not know how to do due to their lack of technical knowledge. That is why its possible to cripple production of a certain kind of vehicle by destroying the right kind of Factory Satellites (such as what happened to the Glaug).

In the case of the Factory Satellite the UNG appropriated, it was designed for building Reguld Battle Pods. No doubt the UNG had to retool it for their own purposes, to build ships and other kinds of mecha.

Even if the UNG could retool the Factory Satellite to build another...

And even if they understood HOW to build a Factory Satellite...

And assuming they had enough resources to fuel such a massive project...

...building another megastructure like the Factory Satellite would utterly consume the time and resources of their single existing Factory Satellite (remember, colonization fleets were only produced one or two per year). There would be nothing left to build colonization vessels, warships and other mecha, a situation that would possibly persist for decades while this moon-sized structure was under construction. This would have lead to a complete halting of any exploration programs and there would be no resources to colonize other worlds. Part of the reason the UNG was able to recover so quickly after the war was due to the incredible production capabilities of the Factory Satellite. The UNG was able to rebuild their fleet and even create larger fleets than they had ever had in a much shorter period of time with the Factory Satellite. The Factory Satellite was integral to the rebuilding and expansion of the early UNG sphere. And let's not forget the UNG's priority post-war was survival through expansion, colonizing other worlds to ensure they didn't die out as a species due to the destruction of a single planet. Means of production was not a big priority once they obtained the Factory Satellite and had no reason to spend decades building another. By the 2040's the UNG had colonies like Eden that had entire cities with industrial complexes of their own that could build warships and mecha independently.

No, I think it's safe to assume the UNG were much better off using the resources of the Factory Satellite to build colonization fleets, warships, mecha and other ships for starting new colonies.

This reasonning makes sense, indeed

Thanks