Newbie Questions on Macross

[JB0]

I never read the comics I may do that. Not sure.

I found the graphic novel of the genesis arc at a HalfPrice Books.

It's not very good, and doesn't cover what we really want to see.

It's the "Zor sends his secret spaceship to Earth to hide the protoculture from the Robotech Masters" and "Woo, look at the magic ship rewire robot probes and change it's guts!" crap from the beginning of the novel series.

All the silly voodoo crap that made the novels even worse than the series.

I guess i just cant get enough Macross.

415158[/snapback]

Same for us all, I think.

[azrael]

Minmay'd just won a singing contest or something. A bit of detail about that might be interesting.

Compendium mentions she was in Macross City because her aunt was mroe supportive of her dreams of stardom than her parents were. Animating a bit of Minmay/parent drama would be nice too.

415128[/snapback]

Flashback 2012. There were a few sequences where we see Minmay leaving her home with an unhappy look, IIRC.

[JB0]

Minmay'd just won a singing contest or something. A bit of detail about that might be interesting.

Compendium mentions she was in Macross City because her aunt was mroe supportive of her dreams of stardom than her parents were. Animating a bit of Minmay/parent drama would be nice too.

415128[/snapback]

Flashback 2012. There were a few sequences where we see Minmay leaving her home with an unhappy look, IIRC.

415195[/snapback]

2012 sucked, though.

*dons asbestos suit*

[Kelsain]

I've run a search of the board, and couldn't find anything on these topics, so here goes:

I'm about 1/4 of the way through M7, and am ok with everything so far except for 3 issues that interfering with my suspension of disbelief:

A) What's up with the Achisio District? It's not a registered part of the fleet, all the buildings inside are bombed out - or smashed somehow, seems to be like Cabrini Green of City 7. It almost looks like anothe ship tacked on to the Macross. Is there any explanation for all this?

B) In the first episode, when the Varuta attack near City7, the people see the explosions, then there's a big shockwave. At first I figured this would be attributed to damage to the dome or an infiltration force, but several episodes later, the city is infiltrated by a different team - w/ no exposition of the infiltration. So... why bother with the shockwaves at all?

C) Is the 7th Fleet actually going anywhere? I know it's supposedly headed for the Galactic Core, but is it stationary or traveling at sub-light speeds? It just seems like a big sitting duck to the Varuta - like the Macross in the original series, but it was established that the SDF-1 could not fold and had to travel at sub-light. Of course, it's silly to say that time dilation would make the trip nearly instantaneous to the colonists at high enough velocities, so all the resort & casino entertainment would be unecessary - I don't want to kill any catgirls. I would think that if you were headed half way across the galaxy, you'd probably use space-fold to do it.

Or do I just need to wait it out and see later in the series?

Edited July 14, 2006 by Kelsain

[azrael]

1) The Achisio District is an add-on district. New Macross-class colony ships (The City unit that is) does have docking points for additional districts that can be mounted outside the shell. The Event Dome is also another add-on. These add-on units allow for additional features to the City environment should they not be provided by other venues or additional venues provided closer to the City units.

2) The POV may not have been on the affected area. I'll have to rewatch the episode though.

3) Colony fleets travel the galaxy charting space in search of planets, civilizations, etc...the whole Star Trek motif. They can't really do that while folding now can they. In addition to looking for planets to colonize, they do scientific explorations of the galaxy. Lots of things probably have changed since the Zentradi visited those areas. It's worth it to them, to take a look.

Edited July 14, 2006 by azrael

[JB0]

I've run a search of the board, and couldn't find anything on these topics, so here goes:

I'm about 1/4 of the way through M7, and am ok with everything so far except for 3 issues that interfering with my suspension of disbelief:

A) What's up with the Achisio District?  It's not a registered part of the fleet, all the buildings inside are bombed out - or smashed somehow, seems to be like Cabrini Green of City 7.  It almost looks like anothe ship tacked on to the Macross.  Is there any explanation for all this?

Not really.

Presumably it's got something to do with Ray supplying Basara with a rockstar VF-19.

Basara's apparently involved in a top-secret military experiment, and somehow fails to realize it until the formation of Sound Force.

[Pat Payne]

1) The Achisio District is an add-on district. New Macross-class colony ships (The City unit that is) does have docking points for additional districts that can be mounted outside the shell. The Event Dome is also another add-on. These add-on units allow for additional features to the City environment should they not be provided by other venues or additional venues provided closer to the City units.

Which begs the question -- what posessed them to decide they needed a slum added on?

[azrael]

1) The Achisio District is an add-on district. New Macross-class colony ships (The City unit that is) does have docking points for additional districts that can be mounted outside the shell. The Event Dome is also another add-on. These add-on units allow for additional features to the City environment should they not be provided by other venues or additional venues provided closer to the City units.

Which begs the question -- what posessed them to decide they needed a slum added on?

416290[/snapback]

Cuz it makes a great place to blast music in???? Ask Kawamori or Miyatake (Miyatake designed it...).

[Kelsain]

Which begs the question -- what posessed them to decide they needed a slum added on?

416290[/snapback]

Local color? Maybe the poor people can't afford the pain-killers for arthritis, that's why the only way in is through a stairway - keep 'em out of the fashionable parts of the city.

Seriously, though, maybe it was an outreach project, like the FHA projects in Chicago, providing cheap, standardized housing for the poor; which then degenerated into the slums of the last decade. Still, M7's only been out for 5 years - even Cabrini didn't look that bad after 20 years. I say past decade, b/c I think Cabrini's been knocked down... More likely, maybe the district was impeding some development on Earth. The buildings might have been from one of those post-SWI settlements and the whole neighboorhood was transplanted. I guess Overtechnology brings a whole new dimension to Gentrification.

As for ? 3, I guess maybe they've decided to stop and check out an interesting region of space, or possibly folding between episodes. It just seems that if they're constantly under attack, they might try moving to a different location. I think it was the traffic between ships that threw me off - although I do like the idea that it takes quite a while to go from ship to ship.

Edited July 15, 2006 by Kelsain

[JB0]

1) The Achisio District is an add-on district. New Macross-class colony ships (The City unit that is) does have docking points for additional districts that can be mounted outside the shell. The Event Dome is also another add-on. These add-on units allow for additional features to the City environment should they not be provided by other venues or additional venues provided closer to the City units.

Which begs the question -- what posessed them to decide they needed a slum added on?

416290[/snapback]

Cover, presumably. Who'd think a rockstar with a state-of-the-art VF-19 in the ghetto? Much less a ghetto they didn't even know was there(they DO state that it was an undocumented addition to City 7, so it's not on the maps).

Obviously, anyone with half a brain would question why there was bombed-out rubble on a colony ship, but they still wouldn't think "Hey, I bet there's a cutting-edge fighter parked in here!"

[kensei]

The lasers primarily used in the fighter mode of the YF-19 run long the root and into the wing. Is it possible to fire them in battroid?

[azrael]

The lasers primarily used in the fighter mode of the YF-19 run long the root and into the wing. Is it possible to fire them in battroid?

Yes. Have we ever seen them used? No.

[kensei]

Thanks. Wicked. That means that the YF-19 isn't so underarmed as I thought in battroid.

Edited September 24, 2006 by kensei

[Sumdumgai]

Far less easy to aim with your hips than with your forearms though. Imagine that the YF-19 accidentally swings an arm in the path of the laser!

[sketchley]

I always thought that the lens of the weapon could be moved so as to fire the beam along different angles (say a 30 degree angle off of the straight line from the weapon.) Anyhow, it's another one of those weapons on the Y/VF-19 that isn't seen being fired...

[kensei]

I was just afraid that the VF's were going backwards again. As much as I love the VF-1, it's pissweak, as well as the VF-11. The only fighters I respect are the VF-17, Y/VF-22 in terms of armament. Now the YF-19 steps up to the same plane.

[JB0]

Far less easy to aim with your hips than with your forearms though. Imagine that the YF-19 accidentally swings an arm in the path of the laser!

Both problems are, logically, solved by the computer. Remember the pilot doesn't have direct control.

The pilot just points and clicks, and the computer figures out how to move hte laser to hit the target and how to move the arm to keep it out of the deathray.

[kensei]

What does Basara and Alice Holiday actually mean when they say they are living the "Mayonnaise Rice" life?

[sketchley]

First: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayonnaise#Co...cial_mayonnaise

Japanese mayonnaise, typically made with rice vinegar, tastes somewhat different from mayonnaise made from distilled vinegar. Sold in squishy plastic squeeze bottles, it is complementary to sushi and Japanese cuisine. It is even used on pizza. Kewpie is one popular brand of Japanese mayonnaise, advertised with a Kewpie doll logo.

Secondly, It's hard to answer this question without the questioner having a background in modern Japanese culture and society.

Some people in Japan do literally only eat mayonnaise and rice. These are generally less-financially well-off people (or the type *cough* hard-core otaku *cough* who spend their money on other things than food.) In a way, it is an interesting way to say 'starving artist.' Another way to look at it is akin to the 'instant noodle' diet of university and college students - sometimes they do it out of neccesity (flat broke,) other times, it's from lack of time to do proper meal preparation (shopping, cooking, and cleaning.)

I hope you can get a rough idea of what it means... if worse comes to worse, search the internet for the Japanese guy who survived for a few days, lost on a mountain, eating only mayonnaise and snow.

[kensei]

Hey thanks. That fits in the context, I love Japanese Mayonnaise. Best sauce to go with Chicken Karaage.

But yeah I kinda understand it now. Cheers. I can relate to the instant noodles diet.

[grebo guru]

Okay, here's a n00b question for you-all:

The giant aliens are sometimes referred to as "Zentradi" (with the females as "Meltrandi) and sometimes as "Zentran" (the females as "Meltran"). Is there any official explanation of the difference? My guess is that "Zentran" & "Meltran" are either:

the adjectival form of the nouns "Zentradi" & "Meltrandi"

or

the singular forms of the plurals "Zentradi" & "Meltrandi"

Any info?

Thanks!

[JB0]

If I recall, zentradi/meltrandi is the race, zentran/meltran is the individual beings.

Meltrandi isn't considered a seperate race outside of DYRL, though.

Edited October 30, 2006 by JB0

[grebo guru]

Here's another Stinkin' Newbie question:

Why exactly is the Supervision Army CALLED the "supervision" army?

I gather that the name is a translation from Japanese, as some other sites call it the "Inspection Army" (in other words, "supervision" isn't written in katakana as "supaabiziyon"), so it's not a matter of Japanglish or anything.

It's just that the varying descriptions of the Supervision Army I've read in this very thread tend to describe the Supervision Army as:

(a) a mixed group of Miclones and Zentradi who keep an eye on the regular Zentradi army.

(b) one faction of the Protoculture's military, countering the other faction's regular Zentraedi army.

© the group in charge of managing the Evil series of "zuper-Zentradi" bioweapons.

(d) the Protodevlin's army of enslaved Miclones and Zentradi.

(e) all of the above.

(f) none of the above.

The name "Supervision Army" make sense for options (a) and ©, but not so much so for the others. Most importantly, though, all information seems to indicate that the Supervision Army was BIG -- big enough to give the big (really really big) regular Zentradi military a run for their money. And if that was indeed the case, the name once again doesn't really ring true -- a Supervision Army would, by its very name, imply that it's smaller than the regular Army, because in almost any and every case a supervisor oversees a group. Hence a Supervision Army should, by its very definition, be only a fraction of the size of the regular army. And what's more, once they're no longer in charge of the regular Zentradi Army and/or no longer in charge of the Protodevlin -- that is, once they just become an enemy force -- why are they still called the Supervision Army? I mean, you'd think they'd at least call themselves something else at that point...

(Really, even as non-"canon" as it is, I actually prefer the idea put forward by DYRL -- that the Zentradi were fighting the Meltrandi. It's simpler, more interesting, more elegant, and more satisfyingly alien than the whole Supervision Army and Protodevlin mess.)

Anyway, is there are good answer to my question?

Thanks!

Grebo

[sketchley]

Quick note on the Japanese: most of the time, terms, concepts, and words do not translate easily, or exactly into words in another language. The Japanese word used to describe the Inspection/Supervision Army is just that - one of those words that, in Japanese, encompasses both words and more, but also less than either of those two words strictly state, in English.

The two words could be considered interchangeable, but if one knows the origin of the army, and it's first role, then a better idea of which of those two English words would be the more applicable one.

I personally favour Inspection Army, as it implies a fleet being created to go and inspect the out come of the Protoculture experiments that lead to the Protodevlin - possibly even a fleet sent after the Protodevlin emerged. On the other hand, Supervision Army implies one that was created at the start of that Protoculture project... so yeah, I prefer Inspection, as there is more drama implied by it.

Edited October 30, 2006 by sketchley

[azrael]

Meltrandi refers to more Zentradi fleets who are predominantly female. However, that term is rarely used. I believe I only heard it used once in M7 in Fleet of the Strongest Women. Any Zentradi we see, male or female, are referred to as Zentradi.

We don't know why they were called the Supervision/Inspection Army. They are only referred to in various texts. We don't have information on why they called themselves that. The SA was a mix of brainwashed Protoculture and Zentradi. They were all brainwashed by the Protodevlin.

[Zinjo]

Quick note on the Japanese: most of the time, terms, concepts, and words do not translate easily, or exactly into words in another language. The Japanese word used to describe the Inspection/Supervision Army is just that - one of those words that, in Japanese, encompasses both words and more, but also less than either of those two words strictly state, in English.

The two words could be considered interchangeable, but if one knows the origin of the army, and it's first role, then a better idea of which of those two English words would be the more applicable one.

I personally favour Inspection Army, as it implies a fleet being created to go and inspect the out come of the Protoculture experiments that lead to the Protodevlin - possibly even a fleet sent after the Protodevlin emerged. On the other hand, Supervision Army implies one that was created at the start of that Protoculture project... so yeah, I prefer Inspection, as there is more drama implied by it.

I expect that the term "Supervision" is the preferred English name as the English term implies inspection as part of the job of a supervisor.

[JB0]

(Really, even as non-"canon" as it is, I actually prefer the idea put forward by DYRL -- that the Zentradi were fighting the Meltrandi. It's simpler, more interesting, more elegant, and more satisfyingly alien than the whole Supervision Army and Protodevlin mess.)

I never really cared for that plot. The "war between the sexes" wasn't very interesting, elegant, or satisfying to me. And I don't see how it's alien.

Personally, I thought it was simple to the point of being cliche.

I preferred the undefined enemy the zentradi were set against in the ancient past, lost to the mists of times presented in the original series.

[sketchley]

I expect that the term "Supervision" is the preferred English name as the English term implies inspection as part of the job of a supervisor.

監察 = Inspection

監察軍 = Inspection Army/Troop

Try it for yourself if you don't believe me: http://www.excite.co.jp/world/english/

It should be noted that one of the 漢字 used in the term is also used in the word for Police - giving the nuance of: (Police) Inspection Army.

Source of the 監察: Macross Perfect Memory Pg. 181. "監察軍戦艦(クラッシュド)". It also shows up in the timeline on page 54 of the same book.

Me thinks it is a bit of this going on here: http://www.unique-design.net/library/false.html

Edited October 31, 2006 by sketchley

[grebo guru]

Sssssooooo... nobody has an answer as to why, exactly, they're called the Supervision (synonymous with Inspection and/or Police Inspection) Army?

In other words, what did (or in the case of the Varauta, do) the Supervision Army actually supervise?

Another few Worthless Newbie Scum questions:

1 - The general consensus around here seems to be that the cloning process (used to rapidly expand the human race from 2010 to 2030) creates exact duplicates of the people cloned, on a 1-to-1 basis. That is, put a guy through the cloning process, he and 1 identical clone come out. But is there any official detail on the process? Given genetic samples from many donors, couldn't Overtech cloning systems crank out all sorts of varied and unique individuals? And/or, could not multiple clones be made from the same single "donor" (i.e., one guy goes in, he and many clones come out)? I'm curious to know if there are any details...

2 - The VF-X-7 Ghost Valkyrie in the Kawamori Design Works book: is it called a Ghost Valkyrie because it can act on its own? Functionally, a fully robotic VF like the QF-series Ghosts? I can see it has a cockpit, but I shouldn't think that would preclude its ability to operate as a robot -- this way, there'd be multiple options.

3 - I've seen some discussion here about improved subtitles for the DYRL dvd... Does anyone have one of these that I can buy? Or can I be pointed to a place to buy me one? Same question for FB2012.

Thanks!

Your friendly neighborhood newbie scum,

Grebo

[JB0]

Sssssooooo... nobody has an answer as to why, exactly, they're called the Supervision (synonymous with Inspection and/or Police Inspection) Army?

Precisely.

They're not really defined beyond "the zentradi's ancient enemy."

Another few Worthless Newbie Scum questions:

1 - The general consensus around here seems to be that the cloning process (used to rapidly expand the human race from 2010 to 2030) creates exact duplicates of the people cloned, on a 1-to-1 basis. That is, put a guy through the cloning process, he and 1 identical clone come out. But is there any official detail on the process? Given genetic samples from many donors, couldn't Overtech cloning systems crank out all sorts of varied and unique individuals? And/or, could not multiple clones be made from the same single "donor" (i.e., one guy goes in, he and many clones come out)? I'm curious to know if there are any details...

There's no official statements I know of on the intricate details.

It's a safe bet they made LOTS of clones from one person, as otherwise it wouldn't have been an effective means of population expansion.

I don't recall anyone saying it was a 1+1 process.

There's no documented overtech genetic engineering. And the fact that they had to abandon cloning due to rise in birth defects implies inbreeding boosts, which implies they weren't tweaking the genes.

2 - The VF-X-7 Ghost Valkyrie in the Kawamori Design Works book: is it called a Ghost Valkyrie because it can act on its own? Functionally, a fully robotic VF like the QF-series Ghosts? I can see it has a cockpit, but I shouldn't think that would preclude its ability to operate as a robot -- this way, there'd be multiple options.

Given the final production VF-7 wasn't a drone, I doubt it. Probably just parallel naming.

[grebo guru]

This came up a few pages ago:

"Alus" in Marduk mythology is the relic ship that will bring culture or salavation (a peacful culture the Marduk to end their endless cycle of war in their culture) to the Marduk.

Here's where knowing katakana can be useful. (Or problematic, depending on your POV.) See, in MacII most of the characters assume that this legendary "Alus" must be the Macross. However, the events in the end of the series make it clear that the Macross ain't the Alus. HOWEVER...

The Japanese word for "Earth" is "chikyuu", but when you take the English word "Earth" and render it phonetically in Japanese (by way of katakana) you get "aasu". (That's the kanas "ah"-[dash]-"su".) The "dash" elongates the sound of the vowel before it, turning the "ah" sound into something approximating an "ar" sound. Yeah, in English, the "Ear-" part of "Earth" sounds more like "uhr", but there's no "uh" sound in Japanese -- they use "ah" as a stand-in. Similarly, there's no "th" sound in Japanese either, so they use a "s" sound instead. And of course a hard, deep "u" (or "ooh" sound) is often "devoiced" -- basically silent. So the Japanese katakana construction "ah"-[dash]-"su" renders their equivalent to the sounds of the English word "Earth". HOWEVER AGAIN...

It's fairly well known that in Japan (and all over Asia), "R" and "L" are pronounced the same. The official katakana rendition of "Earth" is "ah"-[dash]-"su", but "ah"-"ru"-"su" COULD be used and, objectively, would be an equally defensible katakana rendition of the sound of the English word "Earth". And "ah"-"ru"-"su" just so happens to be the katakana for the legendary ship "Alus" mentioned in Macross II.

In Macross II, the Macross itself did not bring peace/salvation to the Marduk. Contact with humanity did, however. In other words, contact with the Earth. Earth isn't an relic spaceship, but it very similar -- an old, large object travelling through space, supporting intelligent beings. Combine this with the katakana similarities between "Alus" and "Earth", and you've got your answer: our home planet is the legendary relic which brings peaceful salvation to the Marduk's war-warped culture.

Grebo!!!

[azrael]

In other words, what did (or in the case of the Varauta, do) the Supervision Army actually supervise?

WE DON"T KNOW. That's the only answer we can give you because that's all we have to go on. Next question.

3 - I've seen some discussion here about improved subtitles for the DYRL dvd... Does anyone have one of these that I can buy? Or can I be pointed to a place to buy me one? Same question for FB2012.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=13965

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=13441

You must buy your own copy of DYRL?. Otherwise, talk to Hurin to arrange something.

[grebo guru]

Woof woof!

WE DON"T KNOW. That's the only answer we can give you because that's all we have to go on. Next question.

Okay, okay, jeez. No need to yell, dude...

You must buy your own copy of DYRL?. Otherwise, talk to Hurin to arrange something.

Faboo. Thank you for the info.

Grebo

[kensei]

I've never seen this clip from Macross VF-X2. Can someone tell me if this is a mistake?

[sketchley]

It's the intermission that occurs between mission 11A and 12. Of course, if during mission 9, you choose the alternative conclusion, then you don't get the intermission after fighting Miria Fokina and Giriamu at the end of mission 11B - this conclusion ends at that point.