Newbie Questions on Macross

[JB0]

It's also possible they made more modern destroids, but we've never seen them. The VF series is more interesting, so it gets all the screen time.

Destroids have several advantages in that they have less parts, less joints, and they're easier to drive. They can also be built heavier(more ammo and armor), since they don't need to fly. So it doesn't make sense to abandon the non-variable paradigm totally, as it's a cheaper and more durable platform.

Tangentally related, the X9 Ghost in MacPlus is also non-transformable, making it the fighter equivalent of a destroid. So the non-variable paradigm isn't TOTALLY abandoned.

The existence of GBP packages implies destroids have fallen out of favor, as the GBP's sole purpose is to turn a battroid into a Spartan(with a bit of armor hollowed out for more missiles). But that could be an efficiency issue more than anything else.

An exploratory or colony mission is going to see only space battles for a long time, so there's no reason to waste the fleet's limited amount of space carrying land equipment.

But once they find a planet, ground defenses will be needed before they can tool up for destroid production. Even an uninhabited planet with no hostile forces for light years runs the risk of dinosaur analouges coming in for some Human McNuggets, or just to chew on the farms.

GBPs are a good way to turn a squadron of VFs into durable and heavy-hitting ground weaponry to fill that roll until the first destroids roll into service. After that, you can put your VFs back in the air while destroids take over the ground work.

And since GBPs take up so little space relative to a full mech, they're a much smaller impediment to the fleet while in space. They're also easier to tool up for in a hurry.

The VB-6 is, in my eyes, a unique situation. A Monster shouldn't be on the front lines, as it is long-range artillery. Making it variable makes it easier to transport, and durability losses aren't a major concern since it won't be in the thick of things anyways.

The Defender might also benefit from being made variable, though as an anti-aircraft weapon it would have to land outside of the deployment area and walk in, or risk being shot down.

The Phalanx was a jury-rigged hackjob that existed to fix a unique problem of the original SDF-1 Macross after the fold accident(it had no escort vessels and minimal anti-space defenses, as they were all mounted on the ARMDs). Consequently it would be the most likely abandoned design.

Spartans and Tomahawks are the destroid profiles that would most benefit from remaining non-transformable, as they exist to fill the rolls of existing tanks. They're front-line weaponry, so they'll be seeing the most combat of any ground offensive. Heavy armor with as few chinks as possible increases survivability.

[bryan_f_davis@yahoo.com]

What's Macross?

Just kidding.

[skull1 leader]

What does it mean to be (or not to be) part of the "canon" story line? Is canon some sort of business associated with the Macross Franchise?

[JB0]

...Is canon some sort of business associated with the Macross Franchise?

396882[/snapback]

It's a word in the english language.

What does it mean to be (or not to be) part of the "canon" story line? 

Canon means it's the "real" story.

In Macross, as well as any other franchise, canon stories are the ones that make the actual timeline. Non-canon stories "never happened."

Except in Star Wars, where non-canon stories happened as long as the canon stories don't contradict them.

[Skull Leader]

What does it mean to be (or not to be) part of the "canon" story line?  Is canon some sort of business associated with the Macross Franchise?

396882[/snapback]

To further add on to what JB0 said, Macross II is not considered part of the "canon" Macross universe because Shoji Kawamorii didn't write it. It was written by someone else and produced by Studio Nue.

As another example, about half of the Gundam series out there are not part of the canon Gundam universe (only those featured in the "Universal Century" timeline are):

Gundam X

Gundam Wing

Gundam SEED

G Gundam

G Savior

and so on are all considered non-canon.

Edited May 8, 2006 by Skull Leader

[azrael]

*snip*...

It was written by someone else and produced by Studio Nue.

...*snip*

397654[/snapback]

That is incorrect. Studio Nue had no involvement with Macross II.

http://macross.anime.net/fallacies/index.html

[JB0]

What does it mean to be (or not to be) part of the "canon" story line?  Is canon some sort of business associated with the Macross Franchise?

396882[/snapback]

To further add on to what JB0 said, Macross II is not considered part of the "canon" Macross universe because Shoji Kawamorii didn't write it.

Which isn't really relevant. It's non-canon because Kawamori banished it when he created the current continuity.

If he hadn't come back to the license after Mac2 and laid out an official chronology(or if he'd decided to keep it anyways), Big West's initial stance that it was a sequel to DYRL would have stood, and Mac2 WOULD be canon.

[Skull Leader]

*snip*...

It was written by someone else and produced by Studio Nue.

...*snip*

397654[/snapback]

That is incorrect. Studio Nue had no involvement with Macross II.

http://macross.anime.net/fallacies/index.html

397718[/snapback]

My bad, meant Big West.

[1st Border Red Devil]

Heck, the RT fanbase likes to beleive in the YF-19 as an unseen mecha in southern cross!

Ya know, there ARE fans of Robotech/Southern Cross and WE don't feel that way. So would you kindly not generalize.....

[JB0]

Heck, the RT fanbase likes to beleive in the YF-19 as an unseen mecha in southern cross!

Ya know, there ARE fans of Robotech/Southern Cross and WE don't feel that way. So would you kindly not generalize.....

397834[/snapback]

PART of the RT fanbase is raging morons that believes all Macross mecha fits into the RT timeline somewhere, usually during Southern Cross.

Edited May 9, 2006 by JB0

[Macross73]

[1st Border Red Devil]

PART of the RT fanbase is raging morons that believes all Macross mecha fits into the RT timeline somewhere, usually during Southern Cross.

397840[/snapback]

Much better. Thank you.

[AngelBird4]

Hmmm... guessing this comes in under the newbie header, as it's a hunt for info that may be out there (didn't see zip about it)

I'm trying to put together a Macross pilot roll call for a couple of illustrations, just the original series or DYRL. Aside from the usual group of idiots, are any of the others (I'm guessing pilots as they're in flight or pilot gear) named?

Scenes in the TV series (dashing out of the restaurant to get to the Prometheus) or in the DYRL concert audience or getting squashed, etc...

So far:

Focker

Ichijo

Jenius

Kakizaki

Warmaker

Jenius

I do mean fighter pilots, but even Defender or CAT or even the pilot who got tagged by an asteroid (Misa's chauffeur) or such...? I don't have any of the box art illos of the old kits that may have a call out (except for the above K Warmaker on a... 1A?)... so if anyone's got anything, I'd really appreciate finding out.

I'm going to watch DYRL again tonight to listen to the background chatter and see if I pick anything up, but thought I'd toss this in here as well.

EDITED for goofed spelling and to try to clear up a point...

Edited May 11, 2006 by AngelBird4

[striderhiryu]

just to ask for something i was thinking but didn't want to start a thread. Assuming that they UN still uses dollars as their currency how much would a VF-1 cost and how much would a VF-22 cost?.

Just as a reference the F-22 is almost 170 million bucks a piece while the B-2 is over 2.5 billions i think.

[azrael]

just to ask for something i was thinking but didn't want to start a thread. Assuming that they UN still uses dollars as their currency how much would a VF-1 cost and how much would a VF-22 cost?.

Just as a reference the F-22 is almost 170 million bucks a piece while the B-2 is over 2.5 billions i think.

400857[/snapback]

This is, unfortunately, speculation (i.e. start a thread). The only thing we do know is that the cost of a VF-1 is 20-times that of a standard Destroid. So, find out how much a standard Destroid costs and then you'll have a rough answer to how much a VF-1 costs. As for a VF-22, I don't even think we can even guess since it has about 40 years of new technology to think about.

[JB0]

It's also HIGHLY unlikely that the UN would use US dollars as currency.

And post-Space War 1, EVERYTHING is diffrent. The old nations don't even EXIST anymore, much less their currency.

That and the near-annihilation of humanity and human civilization has undoubtedly changed the economy enough that even if they WERE using US dollars, they'd be totally incomparable to current ones.

[kyatsu]

i havent watched the macross TV series for a while now (i bought the animeigo set when they first came out and i only watched it once). i noticed that on the episode when macross and britai went to war against the main fleet that the drawings were so well done on that episode (episode 27 Love Drifts Away, disc 7). and after that episode the drawings stay consistently good. is it because they didnt hired good artists til later in the series or what's up? just curious. had they used the good artists through out the whole show, i think macross would be more popular (i think?). maybe i am just being picky, but wouldnt that be great? kyatsu

[sketchley]

It's also HIGHLY unlikely that the UN would use US dollars as currency.

And post-Space War 1, EVERYTHING is diffrent. The old nations don't even EXIST anymore, much less their currency.

That and the near-annihilation of humanity and human civilization has undoubtedly changed the economy enough that even if they WERE using US dollars, they'd be totally incomparable to current ones.

400897[/snapback]

Agreed. Post space war 1 (and the annihilation of Earth's surface) anything goes. It could be 'space bucks' for all we know. Though, as Macross is made in Japan, I feel the producers leaning towards the Yen...

though given that we have the Euro(s) for the EU, there might be something similar. Perhaps something like the Uninat. (UNIted NATions.) Though this is pure unsubstantiated speculation.

Pre SWI, they probably use(d) what the UN uses in reality - a mixture of any and all of the world's currencies. In this case it is perfectly valid to state a "cost in USD/Yen/Pound" as that is used. Though keep in mind that it isn't necessarily what the UN paid member nations to make it. (Payment in local currency and exchange rate fluctuations.)

[sketchley]

i havent watched the macross TV series for a while now (i bought the animeigo set when they first came out and i only watched it once). i noticed that on the episode when macross and britai went to war against the main fleet that the drawings were so well done on that episode (episode 27 Love Drifts Away, disc 7). and after that episode the drawings stay consistently good. is it because they didnt hired good artists til later in the series or what's up? just curious. had they used the good artists through out the whole show, i think macross would be more popular (i think?). maybe i am just being picky, but wouldnt that be great? kyatsu

402807[/snapback]

It's because of budgeting.

The creators of Macross had a limited bank account from sponsors and investors. They opted to budget more of the limited amount of money in key or later episodes. What that means is that more staff spent more time working on the episode you mentioned, than earlier ones.

I am not entirely certain if they were able to hirer more staff or they farmed out less (or more) of the work required in making the series.

This budgeting production tactic is not limited to Macross at all. It is actually pretty common in a lot of animated and live action productions - the very first or pilot episode, as well as the finale and other key episodes get larger slices of the budget, whereas the first few episodes after the 1st (or pilot) and episodes heavy on characterization get less.

Let's face it talking heads cost a lot less than tricky combat with even tricker moving camera angles!

Some other examples where this budgeting tactic is easily seen:

Neon Genesis Evangelion (there is a huge drop in quality between the 2nd and 3rd episodes that doesn't really recover to the quality of the 1st episode until around the halfway point of the series.)

Macross Plus - the 3rd episode. 'nuf said.

[kyatsu]

yup, you are right. i was very shocked about the QC from the first episode til episode 27. there's just no comparison. thanks for clarifying my question, kyatsu

[JB0]

It's also HIGHLY unlikely that the UN would use US dollars as currency.

And post-Space War 1, EVERYTHING is diffrent. The old nations don't even EXIST anymore, much less their currency.

That and the near-annihilation of humanity and human civilization has undoubtedly changed the economy enough that even if they WERE using US dollars, they'd be totally incomparable to current ones.

400897[/snapback]

Agreed. Post space war 1 (and the annihilation of Earth's surface) anything goes. It could be 'space bucks' for all we know. Though, as Macross is made in Japan, I feel the producers leaning towards the Yen...

Except Japan doesn't exist anymore either. The yen would be equally illogical, though their currency would probably closely match real-world yen values for purposes of familiarity.

though given that we have the Euro(s) for the EU, there might be something similar.  Perhaps something like the Uninat.  (UNIted NATions.)  Though this is pure unsubstantiated speculation.

But it's the most logical option.

With all the old nations destroyed, and the New UN being the only notable government, it makes sense for them to make a currency that isn't tied to a specific nation.

Cliche sci-fi "credits" in short.

Pre SWI, they probably use(d) what the UN uses in reality - a mixture of any and all of the world's currencies.  In this case it is perfectly valid to state a "cost in USD/Yen/Pound" as that is used.  Though keep in mind that it isn't necessarily what the UN paid member nations to make it.  (Payment in local currency and exchange rate fluctuations.)

Perhaps. But the UN after the unification war is far more powerful than the modern-day UN.

It's possible they had a UN equivalent of the euro circulating alongside national currencies, or even replacing them.

[azrael]

...

This budgeting production tactic is not limited to Macross at all.  It is actually pretty common in a lot of animated and live action productions - the very first or pilot episode, as well as the finale and other key episodes get larger slices of the budget, whereas the first few episodes after the 1st (or pilot) and episodes heavy on characterization get less.

...

402837[/snapback]

It happens with nearly all shows that air weekly. Due to time an budgetary constraints, studios can only animate so many scenes at any given time. So, the animation is farmed out to other animation groups (domestic or overseas). This leads to the varying quality of weekly TV shows. The opposite is true for OAVs and movies. OAVs and movies rely on 1 group of animators, so quality control is much tighter. Since time constraints are much more relaxed with OAVs and movies, they don't need to use other animation studios. TV shows can get around this problem by reducing the length of the show or, air episodes on a scattered format (like 2 episodes/month).

[Dervish]

Did they ever release Macross Flashback 2012 on Region 1 or 0 DVD? I have yet to find it anywhere.

Also, what about Macross Classic, the radio drama? I tried to find that on such shopping venues as yesasia.com without any luck. Did they ever release a translation of that drama?

EDIT: Oh wait, I suppose I should have used the wanted forum. Sorry, I didn't even see it at the time of this posting

Edited June 4, 2006 by Dervish

[azrael]

Did they ever release Macross Flashback 2012 on Region 1 or 0 DVD? I have yet to find it anywhere.

405303[/snapback]

Flashback 2012 is avaliable via HK DVD. However, it may be a hard find these days.

[Newtype Ace]

Is there a R0 HK rip of the Macross Plus movie?

[azrael]

Is there a R0 HK rip of the Macross Plus movie?

410633[/snapback]

If there is one, you probably won't be able to find it. I recall seeing a HK M+ DVD somewhere but I never paid much attention to it. Or it could have been part of my imagination. Good luck in your search.

[KingNor]

newbie question:

The SDF was NOT a zentradi ship right? so, are the supervision soldiers big like the zentradi? if so are they yet another extremely human like race?

is the supervision army a branch of the zentradi? or a seperate race all together?

[azrael]

The SDF was NOT a zentradi ship right?

412091[/snapback]

We don't know what SDF was prior to becoming a SA gunboat. All we know is it is a SA gunboat.

so, are the supervision soldiers big like the zentradi?  if so are they yet another extremely human like race? 

The SA is made up of mostly brainwashed Protoculture. Whether or not those ranks include Zentradi is unknown.

is the supervision army a branch of the zentradi? or a seperate race all together?

No. Seperate race...kind of. The SA is made up of mostly brainwashed Protoculture.

http://macross.anime.net/story/chronology/...0000/index.html

[sketchley]

I always thought that the Supervision/Inspection Army was made up of both Protoculture (microns) and Zentraedi (macrons.)

Reason being:

- The protodevlen took control of the Protoculture present on the world where the Evl Series Zentraedi were being developed

- The VF-1 was designed to fight giants. The only reason they would have done this is because the SDF-1 was designed for Zentraedi sized crew (perhaps not 100%, but at least partially. The airlock that Hikaru uses to catch the tuna is proof in the 3rd (4th?) episode.)

Add to this other Protoculture and Zentraedi that were brainwashed along the way...

Edited June 28, 2006 by sketchley

[azrael]

I always thought that the Supervision/Inspection Army was made up of both Protoculture (microns) and Zentraedi (macrons.)

412126[/snapback]

Yes, but notice I said "mostly". We don't know how many Zentradi filled their ranks but we do know that it was mostly filled with Protoculture. This is why the Zentradi prime directive eventually failed. They were fighting against most of their "masters".

[Macross73]

you ever think, I want to know the backsotry of Character ___X__.

For example :

Goval , other than smoking his pipe through the show and making a few speeches what else did he do? Was he a fighter pilot or was he always on the ground as an Admin person?

Claudia had mor going on than Roy. she was a capable officer and certainly more experienced than the other girls.

I guess that Max was born on Macross Island since he was really young and joined the force after the SDF-1 took off. Was a flight sim freak? He beat Milia w/out a sweat.

Just wondering if there if there stories were worth looking into.

[azrael]

There's lots of stories to tell...but we'll save those for another show...

Goval , other than smoking his pipe through the show and making a few speeches what else did he do? Was he a fighter pilot or was he always on the ground as an Admin person?

Well...we know he has a wife, Miho. He served with Admiral Hayase during the war, and was captain of an Oberth-class space destroyer (Goddard).

Claudia had mor going on than Roy. she was a capable officer and certainly more experienced than the other girls.

Claudia was the most experienced out of all of them. Misa just entered the academy right about the time the Unification Wars started. Claudia was already a tower operator by the time she met Roy.

I guess that Max was born on Macross Island since he was really young and joined the force after the SDF-1 took off. Was a flight sim freak? He beat Milia w/out a sweat.

415039[/snapback]

Max is European. Either he moved to South Ataria or he was visiting the island during SDF-1's launch.

[Macross73]

There's lots of stories to tell...but we'll save those for another show...

Gloval , other than smoking his pipe through the show and making a few speeches what else did he do? Was he a fighter pilot or was he always on the ground as an Admin person?

Well...we know he has a wife, Miho. He served with Admiral Hayase during the war, and was captain of an Oberth-class space destroyer (Goddard).

Claudia had more going on than Roy. she was a capable officer and certainly more experienced than the other girls.

Claudia was the most experienced out of all of them. Misa just entered the academy right about the time the Unification Wars started. Claudia was already a tower operator by the time she met Roy.

I guess that Max was born on Macross Island since he was really young and joined the force after the SDF-1 took off. Was a flight sim freak? He beat Milia w/out a sweat.

415039[/snapback]

Max is European. Either he moved to South Ataria or he was visiting the island during SDF-1's launch.

415114[/snapback]

i guess it would have been interesting (only to me perhaps) to see how they came together on the SDF-1 . By that i mean, were they hand picked for the jobs or did they volunteer or perhaps it was just random. Gloval at the begining of the Tv show wasnt all that enthusiastic about being in the parade. Obviously not a show-boater or in need of approval like the Mayor.

I'm not a huge of fan of Pre-quels but seeing something show up between Macross Zero and SDF-1 would be ok, I think.

I didnt realize Max was European i have to re-read the Compendium.

Thanks Azrael

Edited July 11, 2006 by Macross73

[JB0]

i guess it would have been interesting (only to me perhaps) to see how they came together on the SDF-1 . By that i mean, were they hand picked for the jobs or did they volunteer or perhaps it was just random.

That's actually one of the better ideas for an expansion I've seen pitched.

Set it just a few months before the Macross' launch, as they finalize crew selection, through launch day when all hell breaks loose.

Show a bit of what's going on in the world and the lives of our future stars.

Minmay'd just won a singing contest or something. A bit of detail about that might be interesting.

Compendium mentions she was in Macross City because her aunt was mroe supportive of her dreams of stardom than her parents were. Animating a bit of Minmay/parent drama would be nice too.

Hikaru was a stunt pilot, visiting because Focker invited him. Not really a lot to show, especially since the show is essentially from his PoV, so he gets established really well on launch day.

...

Maybe a brief cameo, as our new star bumps into him.

Sort of like how Minmay was introduced in the original series. She was just some girl Hikaru and Focker ran into while they were wandering around catching up.

Max is a big question mark.

There's a lot of room here, especially since it's never even been established why he was in Macross City. Were his parents miltiary contractors involved in the reconstruction? High-ranking officers? Owners of the Macrossnold's hamburger joint? Were they just tourists visiting the island for thje biggest event in recorded history? We know nothing about him before he was assigned to Vermillion team.

Everything that applies to Max can also be pinned on Kakizaki.

...

You could easily make a short story that revolved primarily around Max or Kakizaki, actually. They also leave an opportunity to sustain the show after launch day.

Going with Kakizaki would make it tragic, since we know how the story ends. Especially if they carry the story through to Burst Point, though there's no reason to aside from a sadistic desire to animate his death again.

Probably wouldn't fly, sadly. Might would've when they did Flashback 2012, but now it'd require something stronger to engage viewers than "Look! More Macross!".

It's really rather sad that the closest we've gotten to this was the old Robotech comics.

[Macross73]

I never read the comics I may do that. Not sure. Perhaps someone will consider making a movie showing how the VF1 came to be. Perhaps the UN Spacy forces did know more about the impending arrival of aliens to earth. this combination may make it interesting as well as the global wars that happened in the backdrop after the SDF-1 crashed. I know mac Zero touched on the Global Wars, i just dont think they went into it enough.

I guess i just cant get enough Macross.