kensei Posted November 7, 2006 Posted November 7, 2006 Just wanted to get this one straight, the Evil were made by the protoculture, but were possessed by the Protodeviln? So currently in M7, the UN Spacy is fighting against protoculture technology?
sketchley Posted November 7, 2006 Posted November 7, 2006 Basically yes. No, if it's only the Varuta. The Varuta are basically a human fleet that has been reprocessed by the Protodevlin. I suspect that the Protodevlin know of higher levels of technology, but they were primarily limited by the manufacturing ships in the human fleet they captured.
JB0 Posted November 7, 2006 Posted November 7, 2006 Basically yes. No, if it's only the Varuta. The Varuta are basically a human fleet that has been reprocessed by the Protodevlin. I suspect that the Protodevlin know of higher levels of technology, but they were primarily limited by the manufacturing ships in the human fleet they captured. Of course, the Varuta designs were upgraded with some degree of protoculture technology. The humans didn't have anything remotely like a spiritia-draining gun until after they captured and reverse-engineered their version. So the Varuta wind up being a hybrid of human and PC tech, though tending towards the human side if their "bootleg VF" mecha designs are any indication. ... Of course, humanity seem to have gotten the hang of overtechnology pretty fast, so their hardware may be comparable to pure PC tech in several respects, and seems to actually be superior in some cases(the zentradi were shocked and awed by the concept of a barrier system, for example). They could just be taking the best aspects of both sides.
sketchley Posted November 8, 2006 Posted November 8, 2006 Could be. But as the Protoculture are masters of bioengineering (at least from a human perspective,) and the Varuta, beyond mind control (which appears to be a power of the Protodevlin, and not a technology) don't exhibit any type of bioengineering, it is logical to state, as I did, that the Varuta fleet is limited by the manufacturing capabilities of the human fleet(s) that they captured. 3-Star Factory ships are quite powerful, but not quite as powerful as the replicator of Star Trek. My logic is based on the Varuta 1st gen* and 2nd gen* VFs - there is a noticeable difference in technology, and I believe that boils down to 1st gen relying on human made manufacturing ships, and 2nd gen being Varuta made manufacturing facilities. Of course, continuing this logic, I feel that if the Varuta war had continued, then we would have seen more of the advanced (meaning beyond human abilities) Protoculture technologies appearing - as in more Protodevlin, or worse, their offspring! I think it's dangerous to continue this line of thought... *1st gen being the Fz-109, 2nd gen being the Az-130 and FBz-99.
azrael Posted November 8, 2006 Posted November 8, 2006 ... My logic is based on the Varuta 1st gen* and 2nd gen* VFs - there is a noticeable difference in technology, and I believe that boils down to 1st gen relying on human made manufacturing ships, and 2nd gen being Varuta made manufacturing facilities. ... *1st gen being the Fz-109, 2nd gen being the Az-130 and FBz-99. That point can be subjected to debate. The Fz-109 is a (Varauta) modified version of the VF-14. The Az-130 is a modified version of the VA-14. Both the VF-14 and VA-14 share structural similarities and transformations. Both share close development times. The Az-130 doesn't carry many substantial changes from the Fz-109 beyond looks. The Az-130 inherited a stronger engine, redesigned wing and more mass from the VA-14.
sketchley Posted November 8, 2006 Posted November 8, 2006 I was under the impression that the VF-14 only came into existance with Macross M3, and that the two Varuta VFs were based off of the VA-14 (funny how the VA-14 is NOT in any of Kawamori's design works books...) - the VA-14 having appeared in Macross 7 helps. Anyhow, agreed that the Az-130 is more advanced than the Fz-109, and the point can be debated.
azrael Posted November 8, 2006 Posted November 8, 2006 I was under the impression that the VF-14 only came into existance with Macross M3, and that the two Varuta VFs were based off of the VA-14 (funny how the VA-14 is NOT in any of Kawamori's design works books...) - the VA-14 having appeared in Macross 7 helps. The VF-14 that appears in M7 was a rough design based of the Fz-109. Kawamori never finalized the design until M3. For reference though, we use that early design as a basis for the VA-14 (although there will probably need to be a few changes) for visualizing that variable fighter.
grebo guru Posted November 8, 2006 Posted November 8, 2006 I'm rather surprised that nobody has pointed out that even the FBz-99 (previously described as being of Protodevlin/Protoculture design) is actually an "alienized" Northrom & Grumman/Mikoyan VAB-2D. http://macross.anime.net/mecha/varauta/variable/FBz99.html Grebo The VF-14 that appears in M7 was a rough design based of the Fz-109. Kawamori never finalized the design until M3. For reference though, we use that early design as a basis for the VA-14 (although there will probably need to be a few changes) for visualizing that variable fighter.
grebo guru Posted November 9, 2006 Posted November 9, 2006 Cuz we already knew that. Ah, of course. You know everything, after all. But then why did you say this...? My logic is based on the Varuta 1st gen* and 2nd gen* VFs - there is a noticeable difference in technology, and I believe that boils down to 1st gen relying on human made manufacturing ships, and 2nd gen being Varuta made manufacturing facilities. ... *1st gen being the Fz-109, 2nd gen being the Az-130 and FBz-99. (bold emphasis mine) To me, this implies that you were under the impression that the FBz-99 (and heck, the Az-130 too) were manufactured by the Varauta.
azrael Posted November 9, 2006 Posted November 9, 2006 To me, this implies that you were under the impression that the FBz-99 (and heck, the Az-130 too) were manufactured by the Varauta. They are manufactured by the Varauta. Take the original variable fighters, strip them of everything except their skeleton and vital organs (that being the engine and a few related sub-systems) and then remake them into their Varauta counterparts.
grebo guru Posted November 9, 2006 Posted November 9, 2006 But that's not manufacturing -- that's customization. Radical customization, yes, but customization nonetheless. I mean, the guys on "Pimp My Ride" do this same kinda thing (and more, in fact -- they replace the engines too). But I don't think anyone would say that the garage guys at Pimp My Ride "manufacture" cars. They are manufactured by the Varauta. Take the original variable fighters, strip them of everything except their skeleton and vital organs (that being the engine and a few related sub-systems) and then remake them into their Varauta counterparts.
JB0 Posted November 10, 2006 Posted November 10, 2006 (edited) But that's not manufacturing -- that's customization. Radical customization, yes, but customization nonetheless. I mean, the guys on "Pimp My Ride" do this same kinda thing (and more, in fact -- they replace the engines too). But I don't think anyone would say that the garage guys at Pimp My Ride "manufacture" cars. They captured UN ships and reverse-engineered them(or pulled blueprints from captured manufacturing facilities), customized the designs, then(and here's the kicker) manufactured their own custom versions. Sort of like how you can buy a Mustang and a Mustang Cobra. Except in this case the Cobra was designed by a 3rd party that Ford failed to sue. Edited November 10, 2006 by JB0
grebo guru Posted November 10, 2006 Posted November 10, 2006 They captured UN ships and reverse-engineered them(or pulled blueprints from captured manufacturing facilities), customized the designs, then(and here's the kicker) manufactured their own custom versions. Ah. That is clearer. Is this a known fact, or is it supposition?
JB0 Posted November 10, 2006 Posted November 10, 2006 Ah. That is clearer. Is this a known fact, or is it supposition? Strongly implied, I believe. The show doesn't explicitly state anything other than the Varuta ships are based on human designs, and that the Varuta captured a human fleet. But some of the design changes strongly imply a new vehicle, as does the large number of fighters they can field(most of the original fleet's ships should have been destroyed in the take over, if the # of pretty explosions in the Mac7 fleet was any indicator.
sketchley Posted November 10, 2006 Posted November 10, 2006 From the Compendium: 2025 VF-14 development begins. Megaroad-13 discovers an inhabitable planet near the center of the Milky Way Galaxy. The mission names the planet's system Varauta and immigration begins. 2043 While the Varauta research fleet surveys an "ice planet" in the system, scientists discover a mysterious energy field underneath the ice surface. With an undisturbed legacy of Protoculture apparently inside the field, a field-deactivation experiment is begun. The field strength drops and Protodeviln are awakened, starting with Ivane Gyuntar (later Geperuniti). 2045 March Macross 7 Episode 01 Speaker Pod The Fire Bomber band performs their first live concert with Mylene Jenius. New Macross 07 journeys near Planet Varauta. Exsedol Folmo has warned against coming close to this planet, but Maximilian Jenius did not heed his warnings .... In other words: there is 18 years of colonization going on (probably something more or less like Eden - medium to large sized Macross colony.) Research fleet members get brainwashed, research fleet returns to the colony, and brainwashes the colony populace. They then have a year to two years to retool the colony's manufacturing abilities, and start spitting out capital ships and the rest of their war machine - all crewed by brainwashed humans.
ghostryder Posted November 20, 2006 Posted November 20, 2006 I just finished playing catch-up by watching M7 and MII over a short period. Before I slit my wrists, can someone tell me the name of that bubble-gum song that's featured in both (the one the Jamming Birds sing)? thank you
azrael Posted November 20, 2006 Posted November 20, 2006 I just finished playing catch-up by watching M7 and MII over a short period. Before I slit my wrists, can someone tell me the name of that bubble-gum song that's featured in both (the one the Jamming Birds sing)? "Riding your Valkyrie" Lyrics: Shiramine Mitsuko Composition/Arrangement: Sagisu Shirou
Scream Man Posted December 8, 2006 Posted December 8, 2006 Ok heres a question: Do VF-o's have a name? VF-1 is a valkyrie, 11 is a Thunderbolt, 19 is an Excalibur etc etc. Is the VF-0 just called "Zero" as a name designation?
j_wong00 Posted December 8, 2006 Posted December 8, 2006 (edited) Ok heres a question: Do VF-o's have a name? VF-1 is a valkyrie, 11 is a Thunderbolt, 19 is an Excalibur etc etc. Is the VF-0 just called "Zero" as a name designation? Wasn't it the "Phoenix" or something like that? I don't know why but that name came to mind. Probably wrong though. Edited December 8, 2006 by j_wong00
JB0 Posted December 8, 2006 Posted December 8, 2006 If I recall, it was flagged Phoenix, then unflagged shortly thereafter. I don't think it has an official name right now.
kensei Posted December 8, 2006 Posted December 8, 2006 Is the SV-51 in the same boat? I recalled that in the anime it was referred to as the "Phantom" but not sure.
azrael Posted December 8, 2006 Posted December 8, 2006 Nope, the SV-51 never even had a name from the start. The name "Phoenix" most likely originated from the magazines. Unfortunately, the magazines came before the final product. The DVD liner notes and Kawamori Design Works book do not carry that same information so that name has been stricken from the record and is no longer considered canon. The VF-0 is named, "VF-0" or "Zero".
briscojr84 Posted December 9, 2006 Posted December 9, 2006 Anybody know if Akiko from M7 has a last name.
JB0 Posted December 9, 2006 Posted December 9, 2006 Anybody know if Akiko from M7 has a last name. http://macross.anime.net/characters/index.html "Akiko Houjoh"
Scream Man Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 Nope, the SV-51 never even had a name from the start. The name "Phoenix" most likely originated from the magazines. Unfortunately, the magazines came before the final product. The DVD liner notes and Kawamori Design Works book do not carry that same information so that name has been stricken from the record and is no longer considered canon. The VF-0 is named, "VF-0" or "Zero". Whilst watching Macross game footage on youtube I came across a commercial for Macross on the ps2 (Which looked great incidentally). towards the end it shows the fighters u can choose, and one of them is the VF-0 Pheonix. So I guess it hung around awhile after those first sketches were called that...
sketchley Posted December 17, 2006 Posted December 17, 2006 As the game was being produced at roughly the same time as the first two M0 OVAs, it could just be that they were given early line art or read the magazines with the nickname, and included it into the game. If anyone noticed at Studio Nue, it was after removing the name was impossible.
chrono Posted December 17, 2006 Posted December 17, 2006 Not a N00B question. While I was looking through my Macross & Orguss Design Works book I saw the concept work for Artela. But having never seen the movie I don't know the answer to this question: Was Artela a floating City/Island?
azrael Posted December 17, 2006 Posted December 17, 2006 Not a N00B question. While I was looking through my Macross & Orguss Design Works book I saw the concept work for Artela. But having never seen the movie I don't know the answer to this question: Was Artela a floating City/Island? Artela is the Protoculture city in DYRL?.
JB0 Posted December 17, 2006 Posted December 17, 2006 Artela is the Protoculture city in DYRL?. Which was a sunken city, exposed for the first time in millenia when the Earth's oceans got burned off(presumably by a Zentradi orbital bombardment). It's safe to assume it floated at one point.
chrono Posted December 17, 2006 Posted December 17, 2006 Thanks. Kinda neat how SG-1 has tie-ins with other shows.
azrael Posted December 17, 2006 Posted December 17, 2006 Thanks. Kinda neat how SG-1 has tie-ins with other shows. Hardly. It's more likely based off the Atlantis myth.
chrono Posted December 19, 2006 Posted December 19, 2006 I've not heard of 1 Atlantis myth that had the island portable, only that it sank. And that's hardly a basis to conject upon.
JB0 Posted December 20, 2006 Posted December 20, 2006 I've not heard of 1 Atlantis myth that had the island portable, only that it sank. And that's hardly a basis to conject upon. There's no indication that the protoculture city was portable either. It could easily have been a permanently tethered island, with no means of mobility.
sketchley Posted December 20, 2006 Posted December 20, 2006 I was always of the impression that it was some kind of a spaceship city used by the Protocultures that first visited Earth - later being abandoned/forgotten as the war with the Supervision Army heated up. I'm not quite sure how the Birdman of Macross Zero fits into it... haven't given that revision much thought, to be honest.
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