THIS saved the human race?!

[Skypoet]

Actually, that reminds me of something else she said. In the original SDF: Macross (I showed that to her first, and yes, she did like it), when the big fight was gonna happen and Minmei was going to sing and then kiss her cousin to freak out the Zentradi, my gf said, "A KISS?! They should have broadcast porn instead; that would have REALLY incapacitated them."

My girlfriend had the same reaction when I showed her DYRL

[Guest Bromgrev]

C'mon, you guys, stop talking about the song. I've spent 15 years trying to ignore it and concentrate on the death and destruction and the cool mecha.

[JB0]

C'mon, you guys, stop talking about the song. I've spent 15 years trying to ignore it and concentrate on the death and destruction and the cool mecha.

But the other stuff is an integral part of the show. Macross without singing and insane love triangles is... Gundam.

[Keith]

Actually, it was never about the "pop song," or the kiss. What won the war was the emotion put into singing the song. Simply hearing music didn't turn the Zentradi, but Minmay's emotions reaching out & awakening theirs did.

Keith, do you listen to music?

Then so: don't you realize it's your OWN emotions that put value to a certain song?

an artist can put as much of his hearts content into a song

but every listener will feel something different hearing it, with the possibility that

NONE feel the same as the artist who wrote it

Just as in the TV series, the kiss was only there for distraction. What won the war was the awakening of emotions that spread through the Britai Adoclas fleet causing them to rebel against Bodolza, and turning the tide for the Macross.

But again (and again, and again, and...)

Pure emotional shock

What won the war was the Zentradi's emotional reaction to the song

But IIRC the kiss was at the end of the song

I dissagree, also pointing out that I'm not talking about manufactured pop crap such as britney spears. There is no emotiion there, as such, there's none to feel.

What I'm talking about is a song that has a lot of care put into it. Whether you like a song or not is irrelivent. Whether you find a song to be performed with technical superiority or inferiority is irrelivent. But take a good song by Jimi Hendrix, Stevie Wonder, John Lennon, etc, and tell me you don't feel a power of conviction in their performances. It's not mind control setup to make you feel a specific emotion, it's one person putting their feelings into something strongly enough so that people listening to them can feel it.

[Guest Bromgrev]

Yeah, that love triangle's a plus - otherwise I'm not sure my wife would have gotten into Macross ...

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Explain to the GF that the zentradi were lacking a few things they needed from us:

1) Women to bang (they don't reproduce or have recreational sex, just clone themselves) Wait I should have said "partners" to bang.

2) the ability to entertain. In the tv series they show how fascinated they are by little childrens toys: it has no military value but "its fun" kind of like how buying an astroboy/Atomu or a macross model kit would be fun for fans with lots of leisure time to build. All of the activities that have nothing to do with fighting is labeled "culture". Bringing this to them is like, say, taking your girldfriend on a trip to an alien world in a ufo and showing them a world of things she had never seen before. Of course look at a little child of say 2 years old whose eyes light up at the world around them: that's the zentradi. The only reason we HAVE leisure time is because we, as an advanced society split up our tasks and specialised our minds and bodies to perform various jobs rather than all of us being farmers/hunter gatherers where there is no structure.

3) ability to repair. Remember they were only "programmed to destroy things", I don't think they had any maintenance people which was the reason it took Kamjin so damn long to repair the ship that would eventually "kamikze attack" the sdf-1. If the soldiers became too intelligent they might turn against thier creators so this was a form of government mind control - limiting thier education: a bit like public school kids today who can barely read or write. These soldiers were expendable with life being meaningless.

I wrote a post a while ago about how I thought the tv series was WAY superior in getting its idea across than the movie because it didn't put all the credit for saving humanity on "just the song" but more on culture in its entirety. "Culture" includes all kind of creative activities that don't involve desruction. In fact I mentioned that showing the movie version to a new person would result in them thinking the story is very cheesy, because that's how I felt it when I saw it as a kid.

If she watched the tv series first: It clears all this up. I showed my own GF the tv series first and she likes the idea of culture saving the zentradi which saved us from extinction. I tried to mention that the music was just one aspect of the whole idea and it isn't as cheesy if you think of it this way.

I like to think the zentradi were akin to the legendary giant warrior/barbarians whose only love was of combat and who went to other villages and killed and robbed people using thier superior strength but in the end doomed themselves because they were not educated in things like farming/agriculture, mining, building, learning languages etc (all of these are "creative activities/culture" which help civilised people survive) which destroyed the chances of humans being self-sufficient.

The plan being to replace existing humans with "super warrior class only humans" and that these warriors (who may have been heroes to some in the legends) were bad influences for this world and had to be wiped out and bred out of existance by us "lesser" humans. (the "good guys" in macross) Exedol refers to his race as "satan's puppets" as if they were only designed to destroy and replace existing cultures by destroying everything and wiping from existance all knowledge and cultured peoples. Misa was very observant when she saw there were no civilians in the zentradi's base in the tv series. Without civilians, who repairs things? Who builds and creates new weapons? Who does tasks that keep the infrastructure of society moving? The zentradi society were civilian-less, and thus uncivilised. They didn't know any better (ie that some people had to specialise in a task and work thier butt off to create these things) and because they were "combat only" people they threatened to make humanity extinct through destroying our cultures that created useful inventions that helped us to survive as a whole race.

The zentradi were not self-sufficient and more like these uncivilised, culture-killing barbarians who raided and stole whatever they could find, and they were a menace to more-peaceful civilised societies who learned to create these things for the benefit of all people, rather than just stealing from others (like parasites) and destroying things. These dumb, brutish barbarians are seen in macross as "giant aliens" rather than the mighty, musclebound, wild, cold-blooded cannibalistic warriors they would be in say a conan comic.

Edited March 19, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Gui]

Actually, that reminds me of something else she said.  In the original SDF: Macross (I showed that to her first, and yes, she did like it), when the big fight was gonna happen and Minmei was going to sing and then kiss her cousin to freak out the Zentradi, my gf said, "A KISS?!  They should have broadcast porn instead; that would have REALLY incapacitated them."

My girlfriend had the same reaction when I showed her DYRL

Yeah, they're all bitches...

But think about it: if meltrans really wanted to destroy zentrans, all they had to do from the beginning was to go to battles entirely naked -with transparent power armors or something- to distract their enemies beyond their imagination

[Skypoet]

Or maybe Minmei should have sung in this outfit? (I love that drawing, but I can't figure out why)

[JB0]

3) ability to repair. Remember they were only "programmed to destroy things", I don't think they had any maintenance people which was the reason it took Kamjin so damn long to repair the ship that would eventually "kamikze attack" the sdf-1. If the soldiers became too intelligent they might turn against thier creators so this was a form of government mind control - limiting thier education: a bit like public school kids today who can barely read or write. These soldiers were expendable with life being meaningless.

Hypothetically, it also kept them dependent on their masters.

If they wanted working gear to fight with, they couldn't revolt against the protoculture.

...

But they did anyways, and just assumed that their automated factories would keep turning out new toys as fast as they busted the old ones.

The protoculture blew up the reaction weapon manufacturing facilities before they collapsed, but didn't manage to take the whole infrastructure down, which would've essentially killed the zentradi off.

[MGREXX]

HEY!!!

It's a very powerful song.

..........."I LOVE YOU SO!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[Nightbat]

I dissagree, also pointing out that I'm not talking about manufactured pop crap such as britney spears. There is no emotiion there, as such, there's none to feel.

This is where you're very wrong, at least Brittney Speared thinks she puts emotion

in her songs, and her fans think so as well

Your comment is purely personal, and proven wrong by a large majority

You also don't have the authority or the knowledge to tell the world which artist

puts more (or any) emotion into their songs

What I'm talking about is a song that has a lot of care put into it. Whether you like a song or not is irrelivent. Whether you find a song to be performed with technical superiority or inferiority is irrelivent. But take a good song by Jimi Hendrix, Stevie Wonder, John Lennon, etc, and tell me you don't feel a power of conviction in their performances. It's not mind control setup to make you feel a specific emotion, it's one person putting their feelings into something strongly enough so that people listening to them can feel it.

here's something to think about:

These guys' music means jack-diddley to me

So even though they put their emotions up the wazoo in those songs

It is irrelevant to me

Any girl can say "I love you" and they may all mean it, but you're the one who

decides which one has value to you

[Shadow Skull]

The protoculture blew up the reaction weapon manufacturing facilities before they collapsed, but didn't manage to take the whole infrastructure down, which would've essentially killed the zentradi off.

I thought those were destroyed by the Supervision Army, granted the Macross Compendium never did mention who destroyed those. It did mention that the Glaug factory was destroyed by Supervision Forces.

I agree with 1/1 LowViz Lurker idea that it was culture that helped to save the Human race and not just the one song. Of course, the fact that Vrlitwhai Fleet was suppose to capture the SDF-1 greatly helped mankind as well. The Zentrans would have wiped out everything if they were allowed to destroy the SDF-1.

[JB0]

The protoculture blew up the reaction weapon manufacturing facilities before they collapsed, but didn't manage to take the whole infrastructure down, which would've essentially killed the zentradi off.

I thought those were destroyed by the Supervision Army, granted the Macross Compendium never did mention who destroyed those. It did mention that the Glaug factory was destroyed by Supervision Forces.

My mistake. I thought it was stated the protoculture pulled the plug.

[Keith]

[qoute]This is where you're very wrong, at least Brittney Speared thinks she puts emotion

in her songs, and her fans think so as well

Your comment is purely personal, and proven wrong by a large majority

You also don't have the authority or the knowledge to tell the world which artist

puts more (or any) emotion into their songs

-Coorperate manufactured

-Artificially enhanced (her recorded vocals....and tits)

-Songs written by (many) other people

Britney Spears is a puppet, not a pop idol. There is no emotion in her songs, and no one in their right mind believes so. You can argue, or you can stop wasting time.

here's something to think about:

These guys' music means jack-diddley to me

So even though they put their emotions up the wazoo in those songs

It is irrelevant to me

The point your missing, the relivence to you is the irrelivent issue. The emotion in a song isn't placed by the listener, it's placed by the performer.

Any girl can say "I love you" and they may all mean it, but you're the one who

decides which one has value to you

And the value you place or don't place in it isn't the issue. The meaning that the girl puts in it (or doesn't put in it) is where the power from it comes from.

[Guest Bromgrev]

Actually, whether a listener likes a song depends entirely on whether it fires the right synapses in his/her brain. Technically, there's nothing better about Beethoven than Britney. Whatever gets your chemicals stewing - in the case of the Zentraedi, that's obviously Minmei pop!

[Gui]

Technically, there's nothing better about Beethoven than Britney

!!!

Actually, Beethoven was a real compositor, and a very good one btw, Britney just sings compositions of other people, and not very good ones otherwise they wouldn't have as much succes in front of ignorant masses...

On the emotional side, it's a different story of course (a.k.a. you like it or you don't like it...), but it's true that masses have this astounding ability to find anything anywhere

[EXO]

In the case of DYRL it was the song (DYRL) itself that was what awakened the emotions of the protoculture "descendants". Even Bodolza said right before he fired against the Meltrandi and the Macross, "with the song incomplete, the Meltran's surrender will be impossible...annihilate them both!"

With SDF, it was any of those songs that Minmay sang. But the fact was it could have been Britney Spears or any pop star icon as Nightbat said (again only considering SDF). Minmay won the Miss Macross contest and was pretty much the only star of the ship. Her songs was practically the only thing that played on the MBS and the second biggest star on the ship was an actress who obviously was no where near endearing as Minmay. But it was the people on the Macross that chose Minmay, not the Zentrans. The Zentrans were just picking up what ever signals they could while trying to spy on what they thought was a military channel well they thought every channel was military.)

So as far as Nightbat's argument as a waste of time, I have to disagree. He pretty much has it on the money whether or not Britney or any of these plastic pop artists could have taken Minmay's place.

[Opus]

In the case of DYRL it was the song (DYRL) itself that was what awakened the emotions of the protoculture "descendants". Even Bodolza said right before he fired against the Meltrandi and the Macross, "with the song incomplete, the Meltran's surrender will be impossible...annihilate them both!"

With SDF, it was any of those songs that Minmay sang. But the fact was it could have been Britney Spears or any pop star icon as Nightbat said (again only considering SDF). Minmay won the Miss Macross contest and was pretty much the only star of the ship. Her songs was practically the only thing that played on the MBS and the second biggest star on the ship was an actress who obviously was no where near endearing as Minmay. But it was the people on the Macross that chose Minmay, not the Zentrans. The Zentrans were just picking up what ever signals they could while trying to spy on what they thought was a military channel well they thought every channel was military.)

So as far as Nightbat's argument as a waste of time, I have to disagree. He pretty much has it on the money whether or not Britney or any of these plastic pop artists could have taken Minmay's place.

Was it just the song though? Could it be that the human's connection to the protoculture guided them to choose Minmay "the ultimate pop star" as the vessel to deliver "the ultimate pop song"?

[Zentrandude]

just a song. I belive it never realy mattered what song it was but the message it gave. freedom to release the bonds of war that ruled them throughout the ages. For one brief moment they stop to think that fighting to just win is wrong and to fight because they belive there is something better they can achive.

[Nightbat]

-Coorperate manufactured

-Artificially enhanced (her recorded vocals....and tits)

-Songs written by (many) other people

Britney Spears is a puppet, not a pop idol. There is no emotion in her songs, and no one in their right mind believes so. You can argue, or you can stop wasting time.

The point your missing, the relivence to you is the irrelivent issue. The emotion in a song isn't placed by the listener, it's placed by the performer.

And the value you place or don't place in it isn't the issue. The meaning that the girl puts in it (or doesn't put in it) is where the power from it comes from.

Hell, I'll argue

You are simply stating an personal opinion

The quality of Spears' songs is debatable, the popularity it has isn't.

her songs seem to have a reaction to people, that's why they buy it

You claim some "legendary" artists put all their hearts content into a song...

...but what if they say that just to sell records? While you're thinking of the emotion

they put into those songs, they're counting their $$$ and laughing their a$$es off

that Emo-morons are making them rich

You *think* they are sincere, and again, that's where you give value to a

certain artist

Jimmi Hendrix, the Rolling Stones, even a certain period of the beatles-

they wrote songs not with their true emotions but with the use of drugs

->artificially created emotions (You can take down a tree with an axe or a chainsaw

which requiers more effort?)

The emotion of a song is placed by the listener

hence why Spears is so popular

It's artificial, fake and hyped, yet a great number of people love her songs

how can that be when -according to you- there is no emotion in her songs?

If you have no feelings for a girl, she can say "I love you" 'till her face turns blue

her words will be powerless, no matter how much emotion, honesty , whatever

she places into it

Look at it this way: Some people love their car/bike/computer/house/etc.

these are soulless, emotionless things

They put nothing in what they do, they are tools to use, not to experience

yet people themselves give them value

[Macross Forever]

Well, this topic spawned a lot of serious responses that I SHOULD have expected (never anger the Macross Gurus ) , but to argue against Britney because she is manufactured tripe, and saying that Minmay is not is hypocracy.

I got news for you, boys -- 99% of ALL asian singers are "manufactured" singers by western standards. I mean, J-Pop idols are usually picked for their pretty faces anyway, and based on that trait, they are allowed to act, sing, etc., even if they suck @$$ at all those things. The only thing they have to be able to do perfectly is give little twirls in a mini skirt and flash a cute smile, so that no one is the wiser. I believe Minmay fits all those qualities, so she is technically no better than Britney.

[yman1437]

I believe Minmay fits all those qualities, so she is technically no better than Britney.

well, don't want to offend any Britney's fan, but personally I think she CAN'T sing, but Minmay can. in my book, Britney's a star, but NOT a singer!

I still think the situation is the right person, singing the right song, to the right audience under the right situation to invoke the enormous effects

now thinking of that, it's quite a setup to the finale of Macross, isn't it?

[Zentrandude]

I believe Minmay fits all those qualities, so she is technically no better than Britney.

well, don't want to offend any Britney's fan, but personally I think she CAN'T sing, but Minmay can. in my book, Britney's a star, but NOT a singer!

I still think the situation is the right person, singing the right song, to the right audience under the right situation to invoke the enormous effects

now thinking of that, it's quite a setup to the finale of Macross, isn't it?

k interesting. remember this is anime. I don't see how a drawing can be a better singer than a real person. Its better to say Mari Iijima is a better singer than britney spears or jessica simpson. also remember that quite abit of singers never make their own music, I remember on tv there was this old lady that has a room full of songs that she makes for them.

[EXO]

In the case of DYRL it was the song (DYRL) itself that was what awakened the emotions of the protoculture "descendants".  Even Bodolza said right before he fired against the Meltrandi and the Macross, "with the song incomplete, the Meltran's surrender will be impossible...annihilate them both!"

With SDF, it was any of those songs that Minmay sang.  But the fact was it could have been Britney Spears or any pop star icon as Nightbat said (again only considering SDF).  Minmay won the Miss Macross contest and was pretty much the only star of the ship.  Her songs was practically the only thing that played on the MBS and the second biggest star on the ship was an actress who obviously was no where near endearing as Minmay.  But it was the people on the Macross that chose Minmay, not the Zentrans.  The Zentrans were just picking up what ever signals they could while trying to spy on what they thought was a military channel well they thought every channel was military.)

So as far as Nightbat's argument as a waste of time, I have to disagree.  He pretty much has it on the money whether or not Britney or any of these plastic pop artists could have taken Minmay's place.

Was it just the song though? Could it be that the human's connection to the protoculture guided them to choose Minmay "the ultimate pop star" as the vessel to deliver "the ultimate pop song"?

I thought of that possiblity also. But there's nothing on the show that comes near stating remotely as a fact. I'm sure they would have played other groups or performers over the ships radio, but those people wouldn't have been there to be able to give concerts like Minmay. Like I said, as far as the SDF series, Minmay was it as far as the ship's population had to offer.

As far as Britney Spears, I guess she would be who we compare Minmay to at the moment. But I doubt that her songs would be what the city in space would have been looking for. Their songs don't send out the same message even though they are on the same pop arena. But then again, given the adversities and events that Minmay had to live thru, would Britney still be representing the white trash whore that she is?

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

just a song. I belive it never realy mattered what song it was but the message it gave. freedom to release the bonds of war that ruled them throughout the ages. For one brief moment they stop to think that fighting to just win is wrong and to fight because they belive there is something better they can achive.

Same here. The problem was that the zentradi looked at the song and memory plate as if it were a weapon and not something to bring good things to all people. This is why they were willing to come to us in peace for only short period a time in the movie. It was more like a strategic partnership to use us to help them kill thier enemy. They narrow mindedly just wanted the Meltran off thier backs.

Some of the zentradi (Bodol) probably viewed this (idea) as a threat to thier way of life: "fighting", and because of it threatening to bring chaos to the structure of thier society; with soldiers mutinying by the droves for a something better, this was the effect that won the war. Not necessarily that particular song, or the way minmay sang it, or whether that song was tasteful, or whether the song itself was popular.

(when misa tells claudia that it was merely a pop song (or a song that was popular in the past) that doesn't necessarily mean the popularity of the song itself was what won the war. The point of her mentioning it wasn't to emphasise how popular or well-liked it was, but that to us, something so irrelevent (an ancient pop song) is the key to bringing these killing machines back to a civilised society aiming towards a 'creative' life-giving, purpose-driven culture, rather than a destructive, futile one that would bring them to extinction once everything they encountered was destroyed, ending thier purpose for living once the mission was over. The song is just the main symbol used to bring 'culture' back to them. But culture can be any irrelevant activity we do, that 'creates' something, which is non-destructive and not related to war in any way. (notice at the beginning of the tv series when Britai mentions how our building structure is "illogical" in its design. They are completely ignorant of the fact that we do not viw war as the purpose and joy of living. Now when I explain this idea of bringing culture to my GF, she didn't view it as cheesy anymore because the emphasis was taken off only the song itself or only the pop idol, or only the joy of sex or ... you get the idea.

It was more "the culture shock" that destroyed thier way of life than a particular song by itself. The song itself just had to introduce the culture back to thier memory to remind them that thier whole lifestyle was just the PC's way of using them as tools. Because the movie was more brief than the tv series, it was designed to be more dramatic, more romantic, more sappy, and more entertaining for a movie audience. This "style" in telling it, so as to portray the pop idol and handsome heroic pilot single-handedly rescuing the human race from doom rather than a whole society working together to contribute as well, (like all the insignificant civilian acitivities aboard the sdf1 as seen in the tv series) is just more entertaining.

Movie = more entertaining to an audience, but sooo brief and sudden at the end, that it makes it look cheesy to people who have watched it for the first time with no knowledge of the tv series

Tv series = the real story that led to the gradual mass exodus of aliens from thier leader turning the tide and a major factor in winning the war. (like the 3 spies who helped smuggle some of the zentradi refugees onto the sdf1 because they couldn't stand thier crappy lifestyle compared to ours. Remember this helped to convince some of the more stubborn headed (misa's dad?) to trust some of the zentradi and appeal to the politicians to consider a peaceful way to end the war rather than a destructive way. ie to exterminate all aliens, even if there were good ones like Milia who managed to fall in love with a human and bring hope fro the refugees who wanted to change)

Whenever somebody laughs at how unrealistc the macross story is and poke fun at a singing pop idol defeating the aliens, they are usually only considering the music itself, not culture being given to the aliens as a whole. It is an oversimplification imo to just say that it was minmay who "defeated" the aliens from invading and killing us or that all the zentradi magically understood how bad it was to fight the moment the song was sang. The tv series showed civilians and thier activities on the sdf1 as contributing to the whole effect of "culture shocking" them as well.

So from now on when someone says:

THIS saved the human race?!

tell them the tv series is way more honest in the SW I events, with the movie being more "mythical". Whereas the Kaifun kissing minmay was the pornographic distraction to shock the yet-to-be-contaminated soldiers, (and remember what the leader does to contaminated ones..) it was actually the culture (non-destructive activites) on sdf1 that brought people like milia, britai, exedol, the spies and thier followers etc to our side because they realised fighting was just one aspect of life and there were peaceful solutions (like how the spies were inspired by the peace protests, the first sign of thinking for themselves and individual freedoms they wouldn't have had before) and other reasons for existance beyond thier commands to kill and destroy things.

I think it was vital to establish that the whole plan of minmay singing was to contaminate the soldiers so the leader would be force to kill his own guys, and hopefuly those who went to our side, might tip the odds in our favour. Little did we know that some of the zentradi like Kamjin had adapted to the culture shock tactics, and actually embraced it but still continued to kill anyway due to fighting instincts (the "fight" gene?) and wanting revenge. The tv series is much more believable in this sense. Hikaru protecting minmay in this was just the symbol of him "protecting culture". And minamy deciding in the end to continue her career (rather than quit) was a symbol of keeping up the "creating" of this culture which was so vital but seemingly-insignificant for any future encounter with un-converted aliens.

I suppose though that an entertaining pop idol in many ways IS important in that it also helps the civilians to keep calm and be agreeable with harsh decisions and conditions. (example in the tv series: minmay showing support for gloval after he breaks the bad news that they were stranded on sdf1 forever, allowing fans to follow her because the people look up to the idol enough to want to listen to what they are saying.) I think the idea Kaifun had was that once Minmay quited her singing career, people would lose thier symbol of hope. Even if she was a pop idol people needed something to worship and idolise to take thier attention away from thinking too much about the bad stuff that was happening during wartime. This is why it was so important for Hikaru to be this protector of the "princess" who created culture, because once "hope" was gone, the people on sdf1 might stop working and living as they usually would have on earth due to low morale. While hikaru and misa worked to defend, she could fanserve (hehe) the people by transforming thier sad mood from their misery at being stuck in the ship, into one where they are happy and wanting to party whereby her entertainment for the masses (a valuable asset to the community spirit) made the experiences more bearable.

Edited March 21, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Hurin]

Okay, even though I am known for typing too much, even I can't read everything that has been written so far. . .

However, I think it's pretty clear that the song found in DYRL was merely a pop song that was found by chance. It wasn't magical and wasn't "engrained" in the Zentraedi genes like some sort of time bomb. It just happened to be on the plate that Misa found. . . and was also so popular and ubiquitous at the time of the Protoculture's decline/destruction that B'Dolza also had obtained a copy from some protoculture ruins somewhere!

H

[J A Dare]

"That's like our civilization becoming erradicated, along with all the works of Mozart, Beethoven, etc., and the only thing left of us besides a ruined city is a Britney Spears cd that has the power to stop a genocidal war."

I like 'Ai Oboetai Masuka' a lot, but she's right!  It's a pop song, and the analogy is a frighteningly true one, lol.

Britney Spears??? Never. Maybe Faye Wong...but not Britney.

[Keith]

Considering that the emotion put into singing, not the song itself, is the core of all of Macross, I honestly don't see where all this arguing is coming from. It's not a subject for debate, it's not open to interpretation, it just is and has been since the original series.

I'm not going to waste my time dignifying the britney spears issue any longer, anyone who wants to delute themselves on that matter are more than welcome to.

[Nightbat]

Considering that the emotion put into singing, not the song itself, is the core of all of Macross, I honestly don't see where all this arguing is coming from. It's not a subject for debate, it's not open to interpretation, it just is and has been since the original series.

I'm not going to waste my time dignifying the britney spears issue any longer, anyone who wants to delute themselves on that matter are more than welcome to.

C'mon Keith, You're just too thickheaded to realise not all of us take Macross as a

Bible and even some of those who do experienced it in a way you won't accept

I gave you proof that Spears' music isn't what you claim it to be ( And believe me:

I don't like Spears any more than you do!) but because she's not written

in the Macross Bible you consider it nonexistant,

You can blame people for having bad taste or not being able to recognize quality,

but millions of people feel happy/sappy/whatever with that crud she brings out

How can that be? When YOU claim she puts no emotion in her work?

The emotion put in singing is not the core of Macross, only of M7

Macross SDF and DYRL? were about much more than a song

[Druna Skass]

Considering that the emotion put into singing, not the song itself, is the core of all of Macross, I honestly don't see where all this arguing is coming from. It's not a subject for debate, it's not open to interpretation, it just is and has been since the original series.

I'm not going to waste my time dignifying the britney spears issue any longer, anyone who wants to delute themselves on that matter are more than welcome to.

Oh yeah, everyone else's opinion is wrong because you say so, and you are the ultimate authority on Macross right? Granted Kawamori never sat down with any of us and explained his grand vision to us.

As far as "feeling the conviction" or what ever in a Beatles song. No I didn't feel jack sh!t, hell half of thier songs put me to sleep in the car. And jsut about the only time I listen to Jimi Hendrix is when I'm smoking weed.

Get off you're high horse already, I'm sure I'm not the only sick of it already.

Alright I'll shut-up now before I get yelled at by the mods.

[EXO]

Okay, even though I am known for typing too much, even I can't read everything that has been written so far. . .

Jeez... seriously... 1/1 LV lurker is giving hurin the run for his money... it's like a mime that keeps yapping... he's neither low vis or a lurker... Just kidding 1/1...

Well, it wasn't an argument but an interesting conversation to anyone else but Keith. Why bother announcing that you don't want to be part of a conversation? Just leave already. Anything that breaks down his m7 spiritia thoeries is a threat to his sole existence.

Getting back to Britney Spears...

[Hurin]

Considering that the emotion put into singing, not the song itself, is the core of all of Macross, I honestly don't see where all this arguing is coming from. It's not a subject for debate, it's not open to interpretation, it just is and has been since the original series.

This is more than just a Keith post. It's like a self-parody of a Keith post. . . with a dash of AgentOne arrogance stirred in for extra flavor.

Keith, this is obviously something you just cannot back up. Hence your baseless assertions with no real argument behind them other than to say that it's beyond arguing! This is your interpretation which is based on you being a Macross 7 hippy.

You're welcome to your interpretation, but please spare us the "it's not open to interpretation" crap. I'm pretty sure if one of us were granted an audience with Kawamori, and we said: "Is the core of Macross emotion?". . . he'd laugh his @ss off and then say: "No, it's about cool-looking transforming mecha."

Wasn't Macross originally conceived as a parody of Star Wars and other pop sci-fi movies/series like it? Exactly what "emotion" and "music" were they going to parody from Star Wars? If, even as far back as the original series (as you assert), the show was supposed to be about the emotion that singers instill in their songs. . . you'd think that they would have put more effort into writing good songs. . . what with them being the entire core of the series. But, if you listen to Kawamori himself during the hidden audio track on the last Animeigo DVD, he quit openly laughs at how lame the songs for SDF Macross were. . . and how they just threw them together themselves and recycled them throughout the series.

As someone else already said: Get off your high horse dude. Yours is not the only possible interpretation. Just because you think you have some unique and/or "enlightened" view on music doesn't mean that we need to incorporate your (rather odd) view into the series. And it's a safe bet that Kawamori didn't as well.

Oh but wait! What am I thinking?!? Here I am discussing and debating this when the master-of-all-that-is-Macross has decreed that this matter is "not a subject for debate." Odd, that.

H

Edited March 21, 2005 by Hurin

[Druna Skass]

But, if you listen to Kawamori himself during the hidden audio track on the last Animeigo DVD, he quit openly laughs at how lame the songs for SDF Macross were. . . and how they just threw them together themselves and recycled them throughout the series.

I bet a Low-Viz 1/48 that he'd say the same thing about Macross 7's songs.

[Nightbat]

Well, it wasn't an argument but an interesting conversation to anyone else but Keith. Why bother announcing that you don't want to be part of a conversation? Just leave already. Anything that breaks down his m7 spiritia thoeries is a threat to his sole existence.

Oh, I'd call it an "interesting argument" with Keith

But I've seen him place better ones when it came to M7

Never expect him to corner himself so quickly, so easily

But back on topic:

I guess it wasn't just a song that saved the human race

it was effort and openmindedness (heh,.. the Irony in that statement) coming

from all sides

[JB0]

But back on topic:

I guess it wasn't just a song that saved the human race

it was effort and openmindedness (heh,.. the Irony in that statement) coming

from all sides

And guns. Lots of guns.