Looks like Sony is in development hell

[JB0]

Wheel and pedals (best of all, with a stick thrown in) are the best way, ever... especially after seeing your friend cruise around the turns with one hand on the wheel while you're all hunched over the piddly Dualshock    hmm... might have to get the Logitech wheel for GT4... (on that logic, I should have also gotten the flightstick combo for AC5... but I already got two MS Sidewinders at home )

Not so sure about that. While the Logitech Wheel is the best I've tried (with almost no dead zone and a 900 degree turning radius), none of them have enough force feedback to truly recreate the feeling of driving car. And since I'm already used to the standard controller, switching to a wheel or stick causes a drastic reduction in skill for me.

The turning radius chased me away shortly after looking at it(casually, since like I said, no PS2... ).

Of course, all I really want a wheel for is Roadblasters, so realism isn't exactly an issue so much as matching the arcade wheel, which had a much smaller turning radius. I'm thinking 180, but even that may be a bit much.

...

Oh yeah. And no play. Play is evil(and what's primarily wrong with my current wheel, which is cheap garbage).

[Commander McBride]

I'm one of the wierd ones who prefers the original XBOX controller. My main problem with the S is the white and black buttons, they're sorta inset, making them hard to press.

Additionally, though, I really like the relaxed position my hands can be in on the original pad. I don't get nearly as much fatigue with it as I do with a DualShock or GC controller.

Of course, my Dual Shock isn't used much now. All I'm playing is GT4, and I have the Driving Force Pro. I have to say, it feels incredible with GT4, very close to what my real car feels like when running hard.

[Jolly Rogers]

1. Recent PS2 controllers suck compared to a launch day one. I am not the only one to notice, and it's very obvious to me. I searched for a while to find a "old" PS2 controller for sale to replace the one from my PStwo, and will buy another soon as a spare. And yes I popped them open to compare, and found small but definite differences. Different enough for me to spend 25 bucks on a new controller. Was NOT going to play AC5 on the new sucky one.

Can you tell the difference by where they were made or model number?

[CoryHolmes]

I'm one of the wierd ones who prefers the original XBOX controller. My main problem with the S is the white and black buttons, they're sorta inset, making them hard to press.

Additionally, though, I really like the relaxed position my hands can be in on the original pad. I don't get nearly as much fatigue with it as I do with a DualShock or GC controller.

Of course, my Dual Shock isn't used much now. All I'm playing is GT4, and I have the Driving Force Pro. I have to say, it feels incredible with GT4, very close to what my real car feels like when running hard.

Welcome to the club

I bought my X-Box to play Knights of the Old Republic and it came stock with the original controller. Over the 44 hours it took me to beat that game, I got used to it and comfortable playing with it.

Since I've now replaced that Box to play Knights of the Old 2 and it came stock with the Controller S, I'm now learning how to use that controller, though I prefer the original.

Maybe I should just stop playing KotoR games

[Yang_Neumann]

Since everyone was still on this controller tangent, I decided to throw in my two cents. This is , by far, my favorite controller for the Playstaion-Perfect for the puzzle, strategy or RPG fan out there.

[Yang_Neumann]

Plus, using the ASCII Grip allows you to have a free hand to smoke, drink a soda or....pet your cat. Okay, I'll stop now.

[David Hingtgen]

So you want a launch day PS2 controller? They're still around. Here's what to look for:

1. Check Toys R Us, your best bet by far. After that, Wal-Mart (an old one not a Super), K-Mart, Target. Sears? Somewhere that probably has OLD stock that's been sitting around for years. Not somewhere that sells lots and lots of games.

2. How to tell: Old controllers will not say "Black" in a small box, because there were no color options. There are other differences in packaging so minor I can't even remember, but that's the big one. I also *think* the newer ones have a small diagram on the back showing how it hooks up to the console (in case you can't figure it out) and the old ones don't. Not sure. But the lack of "Black" (where others say Blue, Green, etc) is the big clue, since it means it was made before there even were other colors to buy. Of course, a thick layer of dust on the packaging (Toys R Us) is also a good clue.

IMHO the biggest difference is the D-pad, it won't register unless you press it harder. What would normally "count" as a light tap doesn't. MMX4 is the best test, the most "sensitive" game I know of. X button also wants a "harder" hit to register, to the point that in AC5 I would often tap the button and not have anything happen. Circle to a lesser degree. Triggers are simply "cheaper" and feel it. If I tap a button, it should register. I even thought start/select felt off. 5 years of PS2-playing makes me pretty familiar with exactly how a controller should respond. New ones want a distinct "press" into the sensor pad, not a mere "click" of the button. I don't smash buttons into the controller as hard as I can, I tap them. Especially menus, etc. AC5's many menu screens are a good test too. (I got my PStwo the same week as AC5, that's about the only game I've tried with the newer cheaper controller)

Edited March 3, 2005 by David Hingtgen

[Jolly Rogers]

Well, thanks to AC4 I nearly wore out my original DualShock 2 controller that came with my launch PS2. I went out and bought a translucent blue DS2 controller and have been pretty happy with it and never had any performance issues with it.

Now the black DS2 that came with the new JP slim PS2 does feel somewhat cheap...

[yellowlightman]

1. Recent PS2 controllers suck compared to a launch day one. I am not the only one to notice, and it's very obvious to me. I searched for a while to find a "old" PS2 controller for sale to replace the one from my PStwo, and will buy another soon as a spare. And yes I popped them open to compare, and found small but definite differences. Different enough for me to spend 25 bucks on a new controller. Was NOT going to play AC5 on the new sucky one.

What about them sucks so much, exactly?

The only PS2 DS controllers I've used for any great length are the gold ones that came with my Z Gundam PS2. And they're cool, if only because they're gold. Bling bling, baby.

[JB0]

Since everyone was still on this controller tangent, I decided to throw in my two cents. This is , by far, my favorite controller for the Playstaion-Perfect for the puzzle, strategy or RPG fan out there.

Heh.

Ambidextrious too. I'd be spared my usual gripe-fest about left-handed d-pads.

I actually want one of those. Though the lack of an analog stick limits it a little bit, and it's pretty obviously worthless for action games, I'd live.

[bandit29]

I should mention that the Logitech Wireless controller for the Xbox is great, but not as good as the one for PS2, and unless you have a wireless headset, it's useless for voicechat on Live.

The new Logitech wireless PS2 controller is awesome. I love it. Best PS2 controller if you ask me. I have another Logitech PS2 controller that's decent. The Action controller with turbo , I bought at Circuit City for 9.99. The D-pad sucks(its too stiff and the circular pad is indented in the center) but you can use the thumbsticks in digital mode(non analog supported games). I can see why after how horrible the D-pad is lol

The stock PS1/PS2 pads are ok. Depending what your are playing. Of course they suck for 2-D fighters. The PS1/PS2 controller was more designed for 3-D games.

The Dreamcast controller I never really liked. Too big. Thumbstick in odd place.

Wasn't a big fan of buying jump packs and VMUs that plugged into the controller. Too heavy. The 6 button Genesis controllers are one of my favorites. The Saturn ones were nice too.

And the last good Nintendo controller was from the SNES. Nice and simple. The N64 controller was awkward. Thumbstick placement was a bad idea. I hate the Gamecube controller. All the odd shaped buttons are annoying. Our 'cube has been collecting dust lately.

Don't own a X-box yet. Waiting for a price drop to 99.99 lol

Edited March 3, 2005 by dejr8bud

[Sundown]

Why dream? Microsoft made it. Sidewinder Strategic Commander.

I've seen the thing. Not constructed quite as robustly, or with the right movement resistances as I'd like for an FPS though. And I don't think it supports tilt, either. It was actually the controller that got me thinking about something like that for a shooter though.

-Al

[Jolly Rogers]

The Dreamcast controller I never really liked. Too big. Thumbstick in odd place.

Wasn't a big fan of buying jump packs and VMUs that plugged into the controller. Too heavy. The 6 button Genesis controllers are one of my favorites. The Saturn ones were nice too.

The Genesis and Saturn pads felt too light and cheaply made for me. Wasn't a fan of having to buy add-ons for the DC controller but they sure were worth the money - the Puru Puru pack shakes like it's no one's business, and the VMUs give you nice portable games.

The DC controller was my favorite from Sega, although its triggers wore out easily and the thumbstick needs major improvement. Make it something close to the DS2's analog stick and it'd be perfect.

[JB0]

Why dream? Microsoft made it. Sidewinder Strategic Commander.

I've seen the thing. Not constructed quite as robustly, or with the right movement resistances as I'd like for an FPS though. And I don't think it supports tilt, either. It was actually the controller that got me thinking about something like that for a shooter though.

-Al

Ahhh, a perfectionist. I feel your pain.

If I recall, it supported twist, but not tilt.

...

You need a POWER GLOVE!

*chuckles*

...

I actually want one of those. Someday... someday...

Edited March 4, 2005 by JB0

[Sundown]

Ahhh, a perfectionist. I feel your pain.

It's a curse. It really is.

Wonder what a power-glove-like device could do with an FPS. Except tire your arm out I mean.

What would also be neat would be a light-gun controller shaped like a sub machine gun, where the foregrip could be used for movement like a sort of joystick, and the gun is involved in actually aiming at and shooting things on the screen. Meh, again, dreaming.

Not to mention that changing movement directions will sort of muck up your aim, as you jerk your foregrip around. Hrmm... for realism's sake, maybe that's exactly what you'd want it to do.

-Al

[Black Valkyrie]

All my friend are complainning from the PS2 pads ... piece of junk, now some will get the Saturn-PS2 pad and the Neo Geo stick-PS2.

[Gunbuster]

Another one for Sony

Japan Today reports that in addition to a hefty, $90.7-million fine for damages, Sony Computer Entertainment may be forbidden from manufacturing, using, selling or importing into the United States any of their products that include computer controlled vibrating motors because those products infringe on patents held by Immersion Corp.

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000920037859/

[JB0]

Another one for Sony

Japan Today reports that in addition to a hefty, $90.7-million fine for damages, Sony Computer Entertainment may be forbidden from manufacturing, using, selling or importing into the United States any of their products that include computer controlled vibrating motors because those products infringe on patents held by Immersion Corp.

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000920037859/

Yah. Apparently everyone else is paying royalties, but Sony wanted to skip it.

Only thing I want to know is... why not sue over the DualShock 1?

[yellowlightman]

Yah. Apparently everyone else is paying royalties, but Sony wanted to skip it.

Only thing I want to know is... why not sue over the DualShock 1?

I'm too lazy to read the article, but maybe the lawsuit was started way back when with the Dual Shock 1, but its just taken this long to be resolved?

What does this mean for vibration in PS2 controllers, now?

[Hikuro]

They discussed the Law Suit started in 2002, the PS2 was out for nearly a year by then wasn't it? I didn't get mine till October of 2002.

But to see this company has almost 300 patents on software and hardware devices, some we use everyday is rather creepy...this company has an agenda and its to be numero uno.

[Commander McBride]

Sony's gonna pay them off, it's the only real solution.

[Druna Skass]

Is this a big company? If not why doesn't Sony just pull a microsoft and buy the company?

[JB0]

Is this a big company? If not why doesn't Sony just pull a microsoft and buy the company?

Yes, Immersion is a big company.

That's how they could afford to sue Sony and win in the first place.

[one_klump]

Well, hate to be a late comer to a great debate, but I had to reply about the game controllers.

IMHO, Sega Saturn had the worst controller of all the "real" systems (not including Atari Jaguar, 3DO, etc.)

The bottom buttons were really comfortable, but the top three were tiny pointy teeth eating away at your thumb.

SNES controller get props for being a design the hewld up to the test of time. You can play nearly any game today using that controller.

N64 controller was, well, unique. for a properly mated game, it was wonderful. if not, well, eww. The analog stick is worth noting, it was nice and snug, you could get plenty of accuracy out of it.

Gamecube controller just doesn't fit my hand properly.

The origional Xbox controller was not too large for me, but the placement of the black and white buttons were in a really odd place. The Controller S was just a bit small for me, but the buttons were better placed.

Dual Shock controllers for the PS1 and PS2, imo, are masterly crafted devices, but not perfect. Analog buttons on the Dualshock 2 are a joke, and the analog sticks need to be tightned up (see N64 controller entry) a bit for better accuracy. The loosness of said sticks are what makes the PS1 and PS2 second-rate FPS platforms. And yes, I can see the resemblance to the SNES controller, but thats not a bad thing. Poor Nintendo didn't follow the good thing they had invented, and embarked on a quest to make outlandish controller designs.

Dreamcast controller was really nice to me, but the added weight from more than one VMU or jumppack was just too much. The controller became uncomfortably heavy, although I can remember hours upon hours spent on it playing Soul Caliber.

[yellowlightman]

Sony's gonna pay them off, it's the only real solution.

It's not really a matter of just paying them off.

LOS ANGELES — The U.S. District Court in Oakland, California, has ordered Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. and its U.S. unit to pay $90.7 million in damages to Immersion Corp. for patent infringement over controllers used with PlayStation game consoles.

In the ruling handed down Thursday, the federal court also ordered Sony Computer Entertainment and Sony Entertainment America Inc. to stop selling the PlayStation and PlayStation 2 game consoles using Dualshock controllers as well as more than 40 game software products. (Kyodo News)

http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=4&id=332037

[Panzer]

if you're talking controllers I think the xbox S-Controller is the best ever.

I have the Logitech Wireless S-Controller for the 'box and I think its great. I use it everyday and even with vibration on it just sips on batteries.

[Druna Skass]

So what the hell does this mean of all of us, if our PS2 controlers break we have to import one?

I can just imagine how many pissed off gamers there are going to be if some of those "over 40 game software products" happen to be Devil May Cry 3 or some other highly anticipated game.

If someone's putting a lynch mob together to go after Immersion, I've got some free time so count me in.

Either way, you know Sony's going to appeal this.

Edited March 30, 2005 by Druna Skass

[Druna Skass]

if you're talking controllers I think the xbox S-Controller is the best ever.

I have the Logitech Wireless S-Controller for the 'box and I think its great. I use it everyday and even with vibration on it just sips on batteries.

I actualy like the overall shape of that controler, though I hate the Dreamcast style triggers and the button placement leave something to be desired.

[JB0]

So what the hell does this mean of all of us, if our PS2 controlers break we have to import one?

...

Either way, you know Sony's going to appeal this.

Yah.

And I think someone said they can keep selling tehir stuff during appeal.

If someone's putting a lynch mob together to go after Immersion, I've got some free time so count me in.

Right. Because god forbid someone try to enforce their patents...

[yellowlightman]

Vibration in a controlelr is so 1998 anyways. It was in cool in StarFox 64, but nowadays who cares?

[Zentrandude]

So what the hell does this mean of all of us, if our PS2 controlers break we have to import one?

...

Either way, you know Sony's going to appeal this.

Yah.

And I think someone said they can keep selling tehir stuff during appeal.

If someone's putting a lynch mob together to go after Immersion, I've got some free time so count me in.

Right. Because god forbid someone try to enforce their patents...

agreed if a big company stole an idea and made billions you would mad too.

[Druna Skass]

Right. Because god forbid someone try to enforce their patents...

I don't give a crap about them. As a consumer there's a chance I just might get screwed here, that's what I care about.

Beside why wait till now to piss and moan about it, if they really cared about their patent they would have brought this up around eight years about when they first made the dual shock 1. It's not like that thing was some under the radar thing. This kind of crap is similar to the crap HG is pulling.

[yellowlightman]

I don't give a crap about them. As a consumer there's a chance I just might get screwed here, that's what I care about.

You got screwed when Sony released the second-rate, piece of junk controller with the PS2 in the first place.

Sony broke the law, they deserce they're come-uppance. Simple as that.

[Druna Skass]

You got screwed when Sony released the second-rate, piece of junk controller with the PS2 in the first place.

Sony broke the law, they deserce they're come-uppance. Simple as that.

I'm not going to get into another, "who has the best controler" debate with you. I'm completly satisfied with the PS2 controler, it's the only controler that's yet to piss me off. Yes your cherished second rate piece of junk Saturn controler has succeded in pissing me off at one point or another.

I really don't care if Sony has to pay them all kinds of money, what I do care about is being able to get ahold of their products, that's what pissing me off. I don't want to have to import another controler if one of mine breaks. Why the hell should their little eight year delayed hissy fit affect me and other consumers?

Edited March 30, 2005 by Druna Skass

[EXO]

You got screwed when Sony released the second-rate, piece of junk controller with the PS2 in the first place.

Sony broke the law, they deserce they're come-uppance. Simple as that.

I'm not going to get into another, "who has the best controler" debate with you. I'm completly satisfied with the PS2 controler, it's the only controler that's yet to piss me off. Yes your cherished second rate piece of junk Saturn controler has succeded in pissing me off at one point or another.

I really don't care if Sony has to pay them all kinds of money, what I do care about is being able to get ahold of their products, that's what pissing me off. I don't want to have to import another controler if one of mine breaks. Why the hell should their little eight year delayed hissy fit affect me and other consumers?

it's affecting you and other consumers because Sony didn't pay like they should have eight years ago. Seriously, Sony thought that they were big company that you couldn't go up against but you can't beat a patent or a registered trademark... that's the point of getting them.