DYRL - DVD Subtitle Upgrade

[Laserstorm]

I was thinking of buying a DYRL DVD, but first I need to strait some things out. the video is NTSC mode right? My DVD player plays Pal and NTSC, but I'm not so sure of my TV. My TV is Samsung CW-29M064N and the colour mode setings has PAL, SECAM and NT4,43 to choose. So can I play this DVD?

Any help?

[Hurin]

I was thinking of buying a DYRL DVD, but first I need to strait some things out. the video is NTSC mode right? My DVD player plays Pal and NTSC, but I'm not so sure of my TV. My TV is Samsung CW-29M064N and the colour mode setings has PAL, SECAM and NT4,43 to choose. So can I play this DVD?

Any help?

I have no idea.

But, if you promise not to hold me responsible, I can help you guess. This is your TV, right? If so, I think you'll be okay because NTSC is listed there.

Thanks,

H

[Laserstorm]

I was thinking of buying a DYRL DVD, but first I need to strait some things out. the video is NTSC mode right? My DVD player plays Pal and NTSC, but I'm not so sure of my TV. My TV is Samsung CW-29M064N and the colour mode setings has PAL, SECAM and NT4,43 to choose. So can I play this DVD?

Any help?

I have no idea.

But, if you promise not to hold me responsible, I can help you guess. This is your TV, right? If so, I think you'll be okay because NTSC is listed there.

Thanks,

H

Yup, that's the one, although the mask is a bit different, the buttons are right bellow the Samsung sign, and the ON/OFF button (big round one) is in line as others, not apart, and the characteristics are they same as much as I recall. I think it will play NTSC as I said it has NT4.43 as option and looking on those stats it says NTSC 4.43 .

Thanx, Hurin. A spark of hope at last!

[VT-102]

Macross: DYRL Region 2 is NTSC for all who are wondering.

Japan works on NTSC just like the US does. Maybe it was due to the USA occupation after WWII, that they adopted this format. Honestly I'm not sure for certain.

The only difference between USA and Japanese DVDs is that one is region 1 and the other is region 2. But again, both are encoded in NTSC format.

Also the region 2 version; in my opinion, is much better quality than the FX. I've seen some region 2 version for sale on ebay occasionally. The price was around $35.00.

I was puttering around adding subtitles to a Region 2 DVD. However, that has been placed on extended hold (Think of Yamato YF-19FP delay) because of my graduate program. So, I'm sure Hurin will beat me to the punch. If I ever do finish, I will make my subtitles available.

Hope this info helped.

[VT-102]

That's some awesome work there.  Just wanted to know, is there a site that has a similar thing for a bunch of diff anime's out there?  I've got a horribly subtitled Street Fighter II the Move.. bad ass movie but horrid translation.

Any ideas?  Sorry about the OT.

:Dat

If you can find a timed subtitle script for it, I can show you how to create the substream from scratch. But, at that point, we would probably want to take it over to "other anime."

My membership at scriptclub.org should be coming through in a few days. I'll look for a script for you when it does.

And now. . . back to Macross. . .

If you don't mind me asking, what program did you use for editing the subtitle stream?

[Hurin]

If you don't mind me asking, what program did you use for editing the subtitle stream?

Sure! I don't mind sharing! But it gets a bit technical.

WARNING: TECHNICAL CRAP NOBODY NEEDS TO KNOW AHEAD!

EDIT: All of the problems mentioned below are rectified in the new version now available.

First, we need to understand what DVD subtitles actually are. The subtitle stream is actually just a series of BMP images (they aren't stored as text on the DVD itself) that are compressed into a single file along with the information for when to integrate each BMP image into the video stream.

Now, here's the important part to get your head around: No software of which I'm aware can look at the BMP images in the stream and extract the text. In other words, it would be like me drawing an image with some words in it, and then asking you to copy and paste those words out of the image and into Microsoft Word. . . it can't be done. Though, of course, OCR software can scan an image and determine with varying degrees of accuracy what letters are in the image. But to my knowledge, there is no OCR-equivalent software that can do the same for a subtitle stream.

So, we've got a subtitle stream, but we can't manipulate it.

That's where we become dependent on Ali Sama's fansubs. These are essentially just a script in text format with timestamps for when each line should be displayed. These are intended to be used with video player software on computers that essentially throw the subtitles up on the screen along with the video. But the two aren't integrated. The nice part of this approach, however, is that these 3rd party subtitle players allow for overlapping subtitles and multiple colors to designate who is speaking, etc. But, the downside is that you can't really watch it on your couch unless you have a decent HTPC. And, even then, the output often doesn't look as good as a DVD would while playing from a table-top DVD player.

So, the ideal situation is to somehow change the subtitles on the actual DVD. The first step is to take a script like Ali Sama's and import it into Subtitle Workshop (SW). Then you can adjust the timings and change the wording etc. I wasn't able to get SW to display the DVD stream with sound, so I wasn't able to use its built-in video playing feature to help me synch things right. But I did use it to adjust the timing of certain lines by hand.

Now, I should have used SW exclusively until I was absolutely 100% happy with the text of the subtitles. But, I didn't realize this at the time, and I made a costly mistake. . .

When you are 100% happy with the script and the timings, you can then import the SW-modified script into DVD-Lab Pro. At this point, you can also now use DVD-Lab Pro to format the subtitles (change font size, wrap long lines, move lines to top, bottom, left, or right, italicize, etc.). And then, finally, we use DVD-Lab Pro to render the subtitle script (words) into a subtitle stream (bitmap images) which takes the form of the SP1 file with which we're all now familiar. DVD-Lab Pro, upon compiling then slipstreams that SP1 file into the VOB files that make up the DVD's audio and video.

Now, here's my mistake: I did all the formatting (moved Zentraedi words to the top, italicized lyrics, etc.) before I was 100% happy with the actual text and timing of the lines. So, from that point forward, unless I wanted to lose the hours of work put into formatting the subtitles, I had to do all my re-timing and line editing in DVD-Lab Pro. And its interface is a lot less user-friendly. I can't stress this enough: You lose all formatting and word wrapping when you import into DVD-Lab Pro. So, wait to do that stuff until after you are 100% happy with everything but formatting.

So, to save anyone else attempting projects like this a lot of heartache, do things in the following order:

1. Work on your subtitles in SW until you are happy with the text and their timing.

2. Import them into DVD-Lab Pro, generate the subtitle stream, and compile a DVD for testing.

3. After you confirm that the timings are right and the text is correct, then (and only then) do all your formatting.

One final note about a limitation of DVD-Lab Pro: When you import the text file from SW into DVD-Lab Pro, it saves the text of your substreams in your profile. So, I can still edit the text easily in DVD-Lab Pro and then generate a new stream whenever it is necessary (though, again, I have to do it via DVD-Lab Pro's rather poor interface). But, I can't edit the paths that my profile uses to locate the subtitle stream file (SP1) or any other media files. So, if I upload that project file here to try to give everyone the ability to easily edit the substream, it causes DVD-Lab Pro to crash when it tries to finish rendering the SP1 file.

I suppose it might work if someone re-created the exact file structure of my desktop and renamed the substream file to the one I use as I work on things. But, I don't think anyone's still reading and I don't think I've explained this well enough for it to make sense to anyone but me!

I hope someone found this interesting!

Edited February 26, 2005 by Hurin

[DatterBoy]

That's some awesome work there.  Just wanted to know, is there a site that has a similar thing for a bunch of diff anime's out there?  I've got a horribly subtitled Street Fighter II the Move.. bad ass movie but horrid translation.

Any ideas?  Sorry about the OT.

:Dat

If you can find a timed subtitle script for it, I can show you how to create the substream from scratch. But, at that point, we would probably want to take it over to "other anime."

My membership at scriptclub.org should be coming through in a few days. I'll look for a script for you when it does.

And now. . . back to Macross. . .

Thanks, Hurin, that would be great.

Appreciate the offer for help, I'll take you up on it if you find something good.

:Dat

[Hurin]

There is an all-new version up and I have heavily edited the first post here. The improvements are many. First and foremost, you can now all edit the subtitles yourselves in case the mood should strike you. Second, the entire process is now much easier as long as you follow the instructions and extract the files to the proper places. Finally, a flashier, nicer menu is included.

A lot of the ramblings above are superseded by this new version and the updated first post.

Enjoy!

H

Edited February 26, 2005 by Hurin

[Gunbuster]

Wow, I can't believe I missed this thread.

Hi Hurin

You have beaten me to the Macross project I have been working on I have been working with Ali's script on the R2 DVD for a while now and only have gotten so far as getting the subtitles to finally appear on screen. I've only used IFO edit to add the script into the DVD structure. I have gotten some problems that I'm addressing (which is when the title screen apears, the sub doesn't work and vise versa). I am also doing the re-timing on the script for the R2 (it's off, the R2 version have a couple more seconds delay before the actually film start and you know a couple of millisecond will cause a chain reaction on the subtitles).

Anyway to the point of this post, I'm going to check out your steps to see if I can get my version to work. Thank you for posting your steps. Once I finish this project I'm going to start on either the R2 GunBuster OVA or the R2 SF2 movie (I hate the US version)

[Hurin]

Wow, I can't believe I missed this thread.

Hi Hurin

You have beaten me to the Macross project I have been working on I have been working with Ali's script on the R2 DVD for a while now and only have gotten so far as getting the subtitles to finally appear on screen. I've only used IFO edit to add the script into the DVD structure. I have gotten some problems that I'm addressing (which is when the title screen apears, the sub doesn't work and vise versa). I am also doing the re-timing on the script for the R2 (it's off, the R2 version have a couple more seconds delay before the actually film start and you know a couple of millisecond will cause a chain reaction on the subtitles).

Anyway to the point of this post, I'm going to check out your steps to see if I can get my version to work. Thank you for posting your steps. Once I finish this project I'm going to start on either the R2 GunBuster OVA or the R2 SF2 movie (I hate the US version)

Hi there! I hope I didn't step on your toes! My R2 DVD is on the way from Asia right now too and I'm hoping to re-time things and make a "Total English Conversion" of it (new menus, etc.).

If you're interested in the nitty-gritty of how this project got done, check out my original post that I archived on my own site here just in case someone like you needed it! Here's the link.

Also, the tutorial that really got me off the ground is here. But I stopped following its advice about halfway through since I didn't like some of the techniques!

Feel free to PM me or post any questions here. I'd be happy to help you out. Though, you might also just want to wait a couple weeks until my R2 version is out.

H

[UN Spacy]

Am I the only MW"er that's actually finished the whole process? It take at least two hours to finish.

But when you're done it's almost as good as the Perfect Edition (b/c I use DVD Shrink) ONLY with GREAT subs.

[Hurin]

But when you're done it's almost as good as the Perfect Edition (b/c I use DVD Shrink) ONLY with GREAT subs.

Ah, DVD Shrink! I was reading along and saw the "almost" and wondered if you had noticed some video/audio quality degredation. . . but then I saw that you compressed it.

So far, you're the only one I know of who has done this all the way through. But, hopefully these newer instructions will prompt others. Aside from the extraction and "Muxing" time (which you can spend doing other things!), it's really only about 15 minutes of work!

I think a lot of people don't see the point if they don't have a dual-layer DVD burner so that they can burn a copy and watch it in all its glory on their TV/home theater. That's the only real weak link in this whole process.

I'm considering offering to burn these for people as long as they are willing to send me their DVD first as proof that they are entitled to a copy. I just burned my first succesful dual-layer DVD and it plays great in my Panasonic RP-62 DVD player that is known to be finnicky with home-burned DVDs. So, I know it can work. The trick is to set the booktype bit setting on the DVD+R to DVD-ROM. This is a neat trick and makes a DVD+R compatible on nearly every table-top DVD player (but your burner needs to support booktype bit setting to burn a DVD this way!).

Anyways, I'd need to consult with a friend of mine who is a copyright attorney before I could burn these things for strangers. I have no intention of becoming a bootlegger!

Edited February 27, 2005 by Hurin

[eugimon]

I'd be willing to do that! just give me your address, how much you want for your labour, your paypal account and I'll send my DVD, a blank dual layer DVD and send the money over to you!

[fansubs2000]

Hey Hurin, this is what i get in my demuxed DVD folder.

It does not look the same as yours, and i doesn't let me use it in DVD-labpro.

Grrrr....

[fansubs2000]

So when i try to go ahead and use DVD-lab pro, it gives me this warning.

[Hurin]

fansub2000. The problem is that you extracted the files to: "c:\macross-dvd" rather than just "c:\"

So, look closely at the path shown in your screenshot, your files are in c:\macross-dvd\macross-dvd.

You've got a macross-dvd folder within a macross-dvd folder. Get rid of that extra level/layer of folders and you should be all set. Your files need to be in c:\macross-dvd\ with no duplicate folder under that.

Make sense?

H

P.S. The contents of your "Demuxed DVD" directory look fine. The icons only look different because you have different programs on your computer than mine and they are associated with the files in there. Also, you have file extensions turned off.

Edited February 27, 2005 by Hurin

[fansubs2000]

Hurin i got it to work!!!

Huurayy!!!

Yeah i see where i screwed up now, thanks so much Hurin!

For a guy with the handle "fansubs", i really don't know much about fan subbing at all huh!?!

A big thank you to all involved with the subtitling project! Your time and efforts are appreciated.

[zerØ]

hello everyone ... i'm new here, and i found this thread is interesting.

reading the post aright before me about fansubbing, does anybody here interested making a subs or fansubs for this series ??? i mean not only for Macross DYRL, but also Macross Saga.

if you agree with my idea and willing to make it happen, i know some of anime fansubs forum site that will be happy host this anime. considering that there's already out the subs for Macross Zero series, and there's no macross saga subs ... and very less young people from my generation out there that now how good this anime is (altough this anime is a bit old fashioned style anime, compared to the other anime series that out recently like gundam seed destiny, appleseed, or jinky:extend). it makes me sad ...

sorry, english is not my first language so my writing is a bit messed up.

[Hurin]

hello everyone ... i'm new here, and i found this thread is interesting.

reading the post aright before me about fansubbing, does anybody here interested making a subs or fansubs for this series ??? i mean not only for Macross DYRL, but also Macross Saga.

if you agree with my idea and willing to make it happen, i know some of anime fansubs forum site that will be happy host this anime. considering that there's already out the subs for Macross Zero series, and there's no macross saga subs ... and very less young people from my generation out there that now how good this anime is (altough this anime is a bit old fashioned style anime, compared to the other anime series that out recently like gundam seed destiny, appleseed, or jinky:extend). it makes me sad ...

sorry, english is not my first language so my writing is a bit messed up.

Hi! Welcome to MW!

Well, Animeigo's release of SDF Macross (the TV series) has some very good subtitles. It would really be hard to improve upon them, in my opinion.

Have you checked them out?

They're still for sale at the following links for a good price!

Box Set 1

Box Set 2

Box Set 3

Now, if you're talking about fansubs in languages other than english, I doubt we'd be much help since MW is a primarily english-speaking Macross website.

Best Regards (and again, welcome!)

H

[Hurin]

Hurin i got it to work!!!

Huurayy!!!

Congrats Fansub!

Glad to hear it!

H

[Wesker99]

Man.. As soon as I get a hold of a dual layer DVD I'm gonna do this.

Does anyone have a definitive answer on the whole video / sound quality on the R2 version? I might be forced to hold out if there's a need to.. Hehe..

And yeah I just saw this topic like.. now, I think it should be pinned... Or something.

[phoenix01]

Now if we can just get a good Dubbed version based off this, my wife and kids will want to watch it.

[Wesker99]

Teach em to read

I can't stand dubs after I hear the original japanese.

[MjrMisaHayase]

That's great news to report, but when I went to ANIMEniacs, I've found Macross: DYRL Perfect Edition sold for $8.00, but as of this typing it's currently out-of-stock.

Had I known that it was available a lot sooner, I would've purchased it in a heartbeat. But, I wish I could say the same about my credit card.

 

I ordered mine from The Valkyrie Exchange about 2 weeks ago. Try looking there he should still have some in stock.

I'll look into it, thanks!

[nosch]

Thanks for all the hard work on this. I just burned my DVD and it works great. Thanks again.

[Wheels]

I did change a line here and there.  But I very rarely just outright changed a line without some basis in the original language (as determined by the resources above. . . I don't speak a word of Japanese).  With one exception, and I hope I will be forgiven for it:

I cannot stand the line where Roy is about to be killed and he tells Hikaru to "Go and save Minmay". . . and Hikaru responds with:  "If you say so!"

Now, maybe it's a cultural linguistic idiom, but I can't imagine Hikaru saying anything like that when his Sempai is about to be slaughtered.  I looked at all the resources above, but couldn't find a more satisfying alternative.  So, I simply fudged the line to:  "What about you?!?"

If y'all have a problem with that. . . tough.    But seriously, I can always provide an alternative stream with the line restored to the (in my opinion) nonsensical line.  I'd also be open to someone coming up with a more appropriate line that is more in-line with the actual Japanese.

Other than that drastic change where I simply fudged something, to the best of my recollection, I only subtley altered lines to make them sound more natural in english.  My philosophy in translating is that it's okay to add a word or two here and there to make it sound more natural in the new language.  Even if those words aren't technically there in the original.

Oh, and my girlfriend actually liked the movie this time around.  She said it finally made sense. 

H

Hey Hurin, in regards about your "fudged" line;

He's how I understand it; when Hikaru responds "If you say so!", what he's stating is his disapproval or dissatisfaction of his Sempai telling/ordering him to leave him to die and save Minmay. You see, Hikaru is helping Roy saving face, as it were, by both of them not speaking or admiting Roy's fate, that he's gonna to die.

In other words, Hikaru was being polite, in responding to Roy as if he gave a command. And it also showed his disapproval of leaving Roy to his unspoken fate.

I hope that this explanation helps.

And I also want to express my thanks to you and for your excelent work!

Oh, BTW, you're forgiven.

Edited March 3, 2005 by Wheels

[Hurin]

Hey Hurin, in regards about your "fudged" line;

He's how I understand it; when Hikaru responds "If you say so!", what he's stating is his disapproval or dissatisfaction of his Sempai telling/ordering him to leave him to die and save Minmay. You see, Hikaru is helping Roy saving face, as it were, by both of them not speaking or admiting Roy's fate, that he's gonna to die.

In other words, Hikaru was being polite, in responding to Roy as if he gave a command. And it also showed his disapproval of leaving Roy to his unspoken fate.

I hope that this explanation helps.

And I also want to express my thanks to you and for your excelent work!

Oh, BTW, you're forgiven.

Hmmmm, well, that sounds like those words ("If you say so!") convey something in Japanese that they do not convey in english. Or, to use the old phrase: "Something is lost in translation."

Because, I really don't see an english-speaking person using that line to convey that meaning at all. So, really, I think the change in line is justified.

I'm glad I'm forgiven though!

[Wheels]

Double post, deleted.

Edited March 6, 2005 by Wheels

[Wheels]

Hmmmm, well, that sounds like those words ("If you say so!") convey something in Japanese that they do not convey in english. Or, to use the old phrase: "Something is lost in translation."

Because, I really don't see an english-speaking person using that line to convey that meaning at all. So, really, I think the change in line is justified.

I'm glad I'm forgiven though!

Hmmm....That's a really good point. And your right, I can't see a person using that line at all. I see what you mean now.

Alright, I'll leave it to "lost in translation". And now, I understand the change. In trying to adapt it to our culture and with the use of our common English/Western phrases, it gives me greater appreciation for the time and work you've put into this project.

But the line you used; "What about you?!?", to me doesn't fit the scene. Roy tells Hikaru to save Minmay, that Hikaru responds and takes off instantly, not waiting for a respose. So, to me, it would seem pointless to even say that, because when someone says that line, that person always stays and waits for the final response, then takes off. What is needed is a Western expression where it would fit the scene. It seems that Hikaru has to make a final statement rather then a question.

But I've been racking my brain for something short and appropiate. But since I can't, I now see how this may have given you a hard time, and why you fudge it to what it is now.

[Hurin]

But the line you used; "What about you?!?", to me doesn't fit the scene. Roy tells Hikaru to save Minmay, that Hikaru responds and takes off instantly, not waiting for a respose.

Well, if I'm interpreting the scene right, Hikaru doesn't actually leave at that point, but continues to loiter around as Roy gets killed.

But yes, I wracked my brain trying to come up with something too. I'll happily change it to something closer to the original Japanese meaning if someone can come up with an english phrase that sounds appropriate!

Thanks for the feedback and the kind remarks!

H

[Wheels]

I just checked the scene, Hikaru takes off at the same time as he says the line. There's no pause.

Actually there's more, Hikaru does hear Roy final words before he blows up, and Hikaru does see the explossion. So what you have can work.

[Chas]

O.K. been here a few months, time to post. I just got the FX DYRL before Xmas. (It was the first time I'd actually evere seen it; although I've had a copy of This Is Animation: Do You Remember Love since about 1986 or so) and I would love to fix the subtitles. Here's my problem though - I don't have a DVD drive on my PC. But I do have one on my MAC. So Hurin any ideas as to how I can do this on my G4 ?

Edited March 6, 2005 by Chas

[mikeszekely]

Another way to look at some of the issues surrounding translating:

(this is hypothetical)

If I'm translating Swahili into english. . . and the Swahili have a linguistic idiom based on a Swahili fable of a fruit salesman who always claimed to have fruit for sale but never really did. . . until he lost all credibility. And therefore the Swahili use the term "fruit salesman" to denote a liar with no credibility. . . what do I do when the Swahili film uses that phrase?

Do I translate it literally as "fruit salesman" and just confuse the heck out of my audience? Or do I use "liar" or "fraud" instead?

I think that I would have to go with the latter. I think the primary goal is for things to make sense. . . rather than just literally translating word-for-word. Let the Japanese scholars appreciate the differences between the literal meaning and the idiomatic english translations out there.

Did any of that make any sense. I'm so fried. I need sleep!

H

I'd be of the opinion that, rather than replace the slang with something more literal ("fruit salesman" to "liar"), you'd be better to replace the foreign slang with a more familiar one ("fruit salesman" to "used car salesman"). Using either "liar/fraud" or "used car salesman" would both be innaccurate as far as literal translations go, but both convey the same idea in modern English. "Used car salesman," though, would retain more of the flavor of the original dialogue.

That may just be my opinion, though.

[Laserstorm]

This morning I got my Fx perfect edition Macross:DYRL. All I can say is that the

movie is GREAT and I recommend it to all, not just Macross fans, altough I think

everybody on this forum watched it at least once. If you don't have it, but your

interested you can buy it at www.valkyrie-exchange.com (little advertising never

hurt anybody ). Thank you very much Kevin. VERY fast delivery, it took only a

week for it to arrive (I live in Europe you know).

Anyway I will be trying your procedure Hurin, even I who knows jack about japanese can see that at some places the subtitle is off. I intend by the end of this week (I don't have a DVD burner) to burn me a copy (or two or three, as I will be

watching this everyday until I'm so fed up with it that I'll chuck it out of the

window; mind that will never happen ) as the disk has some minor scuffs at the edges and smudges on the track. How do you clean your DVD disks without damaging them? Anybody?

[Hurin]

How do you clean your DVD disks without damaging them? Anybody?

First, if it is playing okay, I wouldn't clean it. But if you must, find a very soft cloth (fluffy T-shirt or something like that). . . and then just use water. Wipe from the center --> out. Do not wipe in circles along what would be the grooves if it were an old-style LP record.

Just found this link. You might find it useful.

H